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Has anyone else bothered to look at some of the NPC Mages that are in some of the books and just wondering how in the heck they managed to accumulate the VAST amount of PPE they possessed?

I pose this question on a whim to my fellow Palladium-holics with two specific NPCs in mind: Alistiar Dunscon and Inglix the Mad.

Both NPCs follow very similar backstories. Both started off as "normal" mages (Alistiar a Ley Line Walker and Inglix a Warlock). Both then "disappeared" for a relatively long period of time (Alistiar was... what? 80-ish years? and Inglix was untold centuries), returning with vast power at their disposal. Both have PPE numbers in the 1,000+ area. Both "acquired" immortality during their dimensional travels, etc.

Now, the immortality thing isn't that big of a deal. Goodness knows if a PC tries hard enough to find the secrets to immortality, they can find it out there... somewhere...

However, the PPE in the 1,000+ range thing? I find that a little hard to swallow, honestly, without bending (or flat-out breaking) some of the rules (with a 2x4...).

So, I pose both the question and a challenge... Is it possible within the boundaries of the rules of PCs to achieve that kind of internal PPE (Internal meaning without the assistance of things like Talismans or Rune Weapons that have PPE augmenting abilities)? And if so, how?

Edit: I would also exclude the often, in video game, used Boon. What, I mean by that is the video game style of, "If you accomplish this quest for me, I will grant you X, Y or Z power/ability upon completion of this quest."

Johnathan wrote:Has anyone else bothered to look at some of the NPC Mages that are in some of the books and just wondering how in the heck they managed to accumulate the VAST amount of PPE they possessed?

I pose this question on a whim to my fellow Palladium-holics with two specific NPCs in mind: Alistiar Dunscon and Inglix the Mad.

Both NPCs follow very similar backstories. Both started off as "normal" mages (Alistiar a Ley Line Walker and Inglix a Warlock). Both then "disappeared" for a relatively long period of time (Alistiar was... what? 80-ish years? and Inglix was untold centuries), returning with vast power at their disposal. Both have PPE numbers in the 1,000+ area. Both "acquired" immortality during their dimensional travels, etc.

Now, the immortality thing isn't that big of a deal. Goodness knows if a PC tries hard enough to find the secrets to immortality, they can find it out there... somewhere...

However, the PPE in the 1,000+ range thing? I find that a little hard to swallow, honestly, without bending (or flat-out breaking) some of the rules (with a 2x4...).

So, I pose both the question and a challenge... Is it possible within the boundaries of the rules of PCs to achieve that kind of internal PPE (Internal meaning without the assistance of things like Talismans or Rune Weapons that have PPE augmenting abilities)? And if so, how?

Edit: I would also exclude the often, in video game, used Boon. What, I mean by that is the video game style of, "If you accomplish this quest for me, I will grant you X, Y or Z power/ability upon completion of this quest."

There is a demon magic spell that would allow this (in dimensional outbreak).

Long Shadow wrote:There is a demon magic spell that would allow this (in dimensional outbreak).

I am going to assume you are referencing the Consume Soul Demon Magic spell. That is a temporary solution, at best. I also know there is the Shifter Spell of Legend, that accomplishes a more complete transferrence of power.

I must say, I speak of ways one can augment/increase their permanent PPE base WITHOUT sacrificing another sentient being in order to accomplish the task.

Johnathan wrote:

Long Shadow wrote:There is a demon magic spell that would allow this (in dimensional outbreak).

I am going to assume you are referencing the Consume Soul Demon Magic spell. That is a temporary solution, at best. I also know there is the Shifter Spell of Legend, that accomplishes a more complete transferrence of power.

I must say, I speak of ways one can augment/increase their permanent PPE base WITHOUT sacrificing another sentient being in order to accomplish the task.

well in theory accessing HU2 worlds; and some how becoming a mega hero is one possibility...
The rules allow for the creation of your own mega powers and one along the lies of tremendous SDC called Tremendous PPE (for want of a better name) "could" be used. (its skirting the edge of rules bending/breaking... but it would work)

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Johnathan wrote:I am going to assume you are referencing the Consume Soul Demon Magic spell. That is a temporary solution, at best. I also know there is the Shifter Spell of Legend, that accomplishes a more complete transferrence of power.

I must say, I speak of ways one can augment/increase their permanent PPE base WITHOUT sacrificing another sentient being in order to accomplish the task.

well in theory accessing HU2 worlds; and some how becoming a mega hero is one possibility...
The rules allow for the creation of your own mega powers and one along the lies of tremendous SDC called Tremendous PPE (for want of a better name) "could" be used. (its skirting the edge of rules bending/breaking... but it would work)

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a Rifter article expanding Mega-Heroes to include mystically inclined individuals...?

Johnathan wrote:

Long Shadow wrote:There is a demon magic spell that would allow this (in dimensional outbreak).

I am going to assume you are referencing the Consume Soul Demon Magic spell. That is a temporary solution, at best.

No. IIRC it's called Heart of Darkness and the Mage sacrifices a victim and permenantly gets 10% to 40% of the victims PPE. There was a few threads recently discussing it and it's canon.

Johnathan wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Johnathan wrote:I am going to assume you are referencing the Consume Soul Demon Magic spell. That is a temporary solution, at best. I also know there is the Shifter Spell of Legend, that accomplishes a more complete transferrence of power.

I must say, I speak of ways one can augment/increase their permanent PPE base WITHOUT sacrificing another sentient being in order to accomplish the task.

well in theory accessing HU2 worlds; and some how becoming a mega hero is one possibility...
The rules allow for the creation of your own mega powers and one along the lies of tremendous SDC called Tremendous PPE (for want of a better name) "could" be used. (its skirting the edge of rules bending/breaking... but it would work)

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a Rifter article expanding Mega-Heroes to include mystically inclined individuals...?

Yes but as it was not labeled "official" I choose to ignore it (I did not like the direction the author took).

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Johnathan wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Johnathan wrote:I am going to assume you are referencing the Consume Soul Demon Magic spell. That is a temporary solution, at best. I also know there is the Shifter Spell of Legend, that accomplishes a more complete transferrence of power.

I must say, I speak of ways one can augment/increase their permanent PPE base WITHOUT sacrificing another sentient being in order to accomplish the task.

well in theory accessing HU2 worlds; and some how becoming a mega hero is one possibility...
The rules allow for the creation of your own mega powers and one along the lies of tremendous SDC called Tremendous PPE (for want of a better name) "could" be used. (its skirting the edge of rules bending/breaking... but it would work)

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a Rifter article expanding Mega-Heroes to include mystically inclined individuals...?

Yes but as it was not labeled "official" I choose to ignore it (I did not like the direction the author took).

Well... dusting off that book reveals a 1d6x100 PPE boost for the mega-hero power of Tremendous PPE. As well as a 50% boost to PPE for being a Mega-Hero. Which, concievably, COULD raise a spell casters PPE into the 1,000+ area. Are there any other ways outside of becoming a Supernatural Mega-Hero?

Johnathan wrote:Has anyone else bothered to look at some of the NPC Mages that are in some of the books and just wondering how in the heck they managed to accumulate the VAST amount of PPE they possessed?

I pose this question on a whim to my fellow Palladium-holics with two specific NPCs in mind: Alistiar Dunscon and Inglix the Mad.

Both NPCs follow very similar backstories. Both started off as "normal" mages (Alistiar a Ley Line Walker and Inglix a Warlock). Both then "disappeared" for a relatively long period of time (Alistiar was... what? 80-ish years? and Inglix was untold centuries), returning with vast power at their disposal. Both have PPE numbers in the 1,000+ area. Both "acquired" immortality during their dimensional travels, etc.

Now, the immortality thing isn't that big of a deal. Goodness knows if a PC tries hard enough to find the secrets to immortality, they can find it out there... somewhere...

However, the PPE in the 1,000+ range thing? I find that a little hard to swallow, honestly, without bending (or flat-out breaking) some of the rules (with a 2x4...).

So, I pose both the question and a challenge... Is it possible within the boundaries of the rules of PCs to achieve that kind of internal PPE (Internal meaning without the assistance of things like Talismans or Rune Weapons that have PPE augmenting abilities)? And if so, how?

Edit: I would also exclude the often, in video game, used Boon. What, I mean by that is the video game style of, "If you accomplish this quest for me, I will grant you X, Y or Z power/ability upon completion of this quest."

We made up a Thread about RPG definitions (now "stickied"); among them, we proposed a term about NPC characters who defy convention.
We wanted to call them "Coffin Characters" (after a certain former Writer for Palladium Books whose NPCs were often alleged to be significantly more powerful than what could be created by the RAW), but were asked not to do so.

Getting just a bit more serious, you might be able to say that both Dunscon and Inglix are products of unique magics and rituals that simply aren't covered by the Book; as such, they are probably, actually 100% legal, because when you look at each character, you can't come up with a By-The-Books explanation that either explains or refutes their existence.

For example, Natasha Romanov (Rifts: Warlords of Russia) is a patently illegal character -she's a 10-foot tall Full Conversion 'Borg [albeit a beautiful one] who still has psionics.

But we don't have any rules that we can point to that say that your two examples are illegal, because we don't really know what they are.

Looks like I'm going to have dig up Through The Glass Darkly (shudder) and create a bit of magic designed to permanently increase the users PPE base through... Donors. *maniacal laughter*

If you used a few different martial arts (such as Tai Chi) from Ninja and Superspies, at certain levels they actually double the current PPE. I have a player that used that very martial art and has over 800 PPE at the moment (8th level).

Icefalcon wrote:If you used a few different martial arts (such as Tai Chi) from Ninja and Superspies, at certain levels they actually double the current PPE. I have a player that used that very martial art and has over 800 PPE at the moment (8th level).

Ether you or your player is mistaken.

The Tai-Chi from N&S and MC only doubles the Char's Chi stat. (Yes this is seperate from both the Char's PPE and, if they have it, the char's ISP.

The Rifts China Tai-Chi only boosts the char's ISP.

As to which H2Hs or MAFs boost the char's PPE, there is Aikido in Rifts Japan @ L10
------------
Now if you meant that you have in you game a House Rule that lets the N&S/MC MAF to double the char's PPE base, then you forgot to mention that it was your house rule you were talking about.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:If you used a few different martial arts (such as Tai Chi) from Ninja and Superspies, at certain levels they actually double the current PPE. I have a player that used that very martial art and has over 800 PPE at the moment (8th level).

Ether you or your player is mistaken.

The Tai-Chi from N&S and MC only doubles the Char's Chi stat. (Yes this is seperate from both the Char's PPE and, if they have it, the char's ISP.

The Rifts China Tai-Chi only boosts the char's ISP.

As to which H2Hs or MAFs boost the char's PPE, there is Aikido in Rifts Japan @ L10
------------
Now if you meant that you have in you game a House Rule that lets the N&S/MC MAF to double the char's PPE base, then you forgot to mention that it was your house rule you were talking about.

not everyone intentionally presents HRs as canon...

Damian Magecraft wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:If you used a few different martial arts (such as Tai Chi) from Ninja and Superspies, at certain levels they actually double the current PPE. I have a player that used that very martial art and has over 800 PPE at the moment (8th level).

Ether you or your player is mistaken.

The Tai-Chi from N&S and MC only doubles the Char's Chi stat. (Yes this is seperate from both the Char's PPE and, if they have it, the char's ISP.

The Rifts China Tai-Chi only boosts the char's ISP.

As to which H2Hs or MAFs boost the char's PPE, there is Aikido in Rifts Japan @ L10
------------
Now if you meant that you have in you game a House Rule that lets the N&S/MC MAF to double the char's PPE base, then you forgot to mention that it was your house rule you were talking about.

not everyone intentionally presents HRs as canon...

My mistake for not stating that I allowed the player to use PPE in place of the Chi considering he had no access to Chi powers or abilities.

Tai-chi Chuan from N&S/MC is my fav way to get Chi powers, since it gives out the most chi powers and abilities.

Long Shadow wrote:

Johnathan wrote:

Long Shadow wrote:There is a demon magic spell that would allow this (in dimensional outbreak).

I am going to assume you are referencing the Consume Soul Demon Magic spell. That is a temporary solution, at best.

No. IIRC it's called Heart of Darkness and the Mage sacrifices a victim and permenantly gets 10% to 40% of the victims PPE. There was a few threads recently discussing it and it's canon.

where can i find this HEART OF DARKNESS ? which book?

finn69 wrote:

Long Shadow wrote:

Johnathan wrote:

Long Shadow wrote:There is a demon magic spell that would allow this (in dimensional outbreak).

I am going to assume you are referencing the Consume Soul Demon Magic spell. That is a temporary solution, at best.

No. IIRC it's called Heart of Darkness and the Mage sacrifices a victim and permenantly gets 10% to 40% of the victims PPE. There was a few threads recently discussing it and it's canon.

where can i find this HEART OF DARKNESS ? which book?

DB12.

The Beast wrote:

finn69 wrote:

Long Shadow wrote:

Johnathan wrote:

Long Shadow wrote:There is a demon magic spell that would allow this (in dimensional outbreak).

I am going to assume you are referencing the Consume Soul Demon Magic spell. That is a temporary solution, at best.

No. IIRC it's called Heart of Darkness and the Mage sacrifices a victim and permenantly gets 10% to 40% of the victims PPE. There was a few threads recently discussing it and it's canon.

where can i find this HEART OF DARKNESS ? which book?

DB12.

Woah, that's a pretty intense spell. Why would it's cannon be questioned?

Glistam wrote:Woah, that's a pretty intense spell. Why would it's cannon be questioned?

Because PB didn't include stats for its cannon in the description, so everyone makes up there own stats for it and then argues about it with each other until the mods lock the thread.

The Beast wrote:

Glistam wrote:Woah, that's a pretty intense spell. Why would it's cannon be questioned?

Because PB didn't include stats for its cannon in the description, so everyone makes up there own stats for it and then argues about it with each other until the mods lock the thread.

i dont understand what u mean "no stats" it looks like a fully described spell to me as far as game stats and fluff text with very little ambiguity that i can see.

finn69 wrote:

The Beast wrote:

Glistam wrote:Woah, that's a pretty intense spell. Why would it's cannon be questioned?

Because PB didn't include stats for its cannon in the description, so everyone makes up there own stats for it and then argues about it with each other until the mods lock the thread.

i dont understand what u mean "no stats" it looks like a fully described spell to me as far as game stats and fluff text with very little ambiguity that i can see.

It IS a perfectly described spell. However, the stigma that comes with the USE of this spell defies usage except by the most foul or insane (which would probably be why it's demon magic, huh?).

This magic COULD actually be used to explain Dunscon's and Inglix's PPE levels. As both are insane AND evil. However, it can hardly be considered a spell or mystical aptitude that can be applied across the board.

Rappanui wrote:A rule most npcs use is that mutliclassed wizards get the full ppe base for each magic using class.
This rule is nixed by Gms who don't want players closing rifts and other stuff with their own ppe.
(this above makes the most sense because in the spells per day system, each class had it's own spell list and their own spells per day.)

While, generally, I would agree with most GMs in this case just to avoid abuse. However, it should be handled on a case by case basis. If a player does the bare minimum in any given magic class just to switch classes and get the PPE boost... Don't let them. If that is NOT the case... I'd allow.

Rappanui wrote:A rule most npcs use is that mutliclassed wizards get the full ppe base for each magic using class.

Even using that, I doubt Dunscon's LLW/shifter levels would give him over 1K PPE. Inglix's might though.

There's also that NPC warlock wannabe-god calling himself Enlil in CB2 who has a huge amount of PPE. I might calculcate the max possible for these guys to see if it checks out.

Long Shadow wrote:

Johnathan wrote:

Long Shadow wrote:There is a demon magic spell that would allow this (in dimensional outbreak).

I am going to assume you are referencing the Consume Soul Demon Magic spell. That is a temporary solution, at best.

No. IIRC it's called Heart of Darkness and the Mage sacrifices a victim and permenantly gets 10% to 40% of the victims PPE. There was a few threads recently discussing it and it's canon.

That sounds too good to be true, what's stopping people from getting millions of PPE this way? The PPE for the Demon Lords would be way too low considering how many victims they'd have available. Even if we take the average person's PPE to be 7, 20% of that is at least 1 PPE. Sacrifice a million people (pretty sure they could swing it) and you have a million PPE.

Does this mean there is a separate 'Consume Soul' spell? What does it do?

finn69 wrote:where can i find this HEART OF DARKNESS?

here

Glistam wrote:that's a pretty intense spell. Why would it's cannon be questioned?

Same reason people would question the canonicity of those Manhunter entities or Time Lord magic, because it's so frickin powerful it could dominate a game in crafty enough hands.

Tor wrote:

Rappanui wrote:A rule most npcs use is that mutliclassed wizards get the full ppe base for each magic using class.

Even using that, I doubt Dunscon's LLW/shifter levels would give him over 1K PPE. Inglix's might though.

There's also that NPC warlock wannabe-god calling himself Enlil in CB2 who has a huge amount of PPE. I might calculcate the max possible for these guys to see if it checks out.

Long Shadow wrote:

Johnathan wrote:

Long Shadow wrote:There is a demon magic spell that would allow this (in dimensional outbreak).

I am going to assume you are referencing the Consume Soul Demon Magic spell. That is a temporary solution, at best.

No. IIRC it's called Heart of Darkness and the Mage sacrifices a victim and permenantly gets 10% to 40% of the victims PPE. There was a few threads recently discussing it and it's canon.

That sounds too good to be true, what's stopping people from getting millions of PPE this way? The PPE for the Demon Lords would be way too low considering how many victims they'd have available. Even if we take the average person's PPE to be 7, 20% of that is at least 1 PPE. Sacrifice a million people (pretty sure they could swing it) and you have a million PPE.

Does this mean there is a separate 'Consume Soul' spell? What does it do?

finn69 wrote:where can i find this HEART OF DARKNESS?

here

Glistam wrote:that's a pretty intense spell. Why would it's cannon be questioned?

Same reason people would question the canonicity of those Manhunter entities or Time Lord magic, because it's so frickin powerful it could dominate a game in crafty enough hands.

also that spell would be out of the normal spell casting range for say a combat mage or obsidian spell thief under normal conditions

finn69 wrote:a combat mage or obsidian spell thief

These must be new classes too =/

That said, pretty much any class at a decent ley line can cast most spells if they manage to learn'm.

Tor wrote:

finn69 wrote:a combat mage or obsidian spell thief

These must be new classes too =/

That said, pretty much any class at a decent ley line can cast most spells if they manage to learn'm.

not the combat mage or spell thief they are limited in the spell levels they can cast.