In need of advice

[The Dark Elf]

Take them to Hades or Dyval!

Overpowered or magical groups are still ok to play with. You just need to tailor the power level to suit theirs.

Demons and deevils have magic with which to combat and high saves. The land of the damned may be a suitable climate or the baalgor wastelands if they're not quite ready for that yet.

Use minions.
Dozens or animated dead will "waste" their magic nets and carpet of adhesions.
Ranged or better yet, flying foes will render carpet of adhesion completely useless, even walls are ineffective in the open against flyers.
Negate magic and anti-magic cloud spells comes in really handy as do mages with the same spells (magic net etc).

You do NOT want to stop the players using these spells (they will feel cheated) just throw more powerful foes or more foes to use their PPE and make the next encounter more challenging.

If in doubt you could always fudge the important dodge or save rolls...

[JuliusCreed]

The Zavor, M&A pg 165-166, can be an absolute terror for magic spammers. Completely impervious to all forms of magic and any magic damage they take makes another one to deal with. if your players get careless they could end up with a lot more than they can handle of these little buggers. Of course the wall spammer may pose a problem for them, but it depends on the nature of the walls... are they mystic barriers or actual physical walls, like a wall of stone and such? if they're physical barriers then they impede the critters, but if they are mystic in nature, a Zavor will just waltz right through it like it isn't even there. The same is true in the use of Carpet of Adhesion and Mystic Net... zero effect. It is also noted in their description that they tend to keep around an easy to use magic weapon or two in order to quickly create duplicates of themselves in a pinch. Have them spot one of these little buggers with something like a flaming sword. If they pursue, have it duck around a corner real quick, easily dancing across any Carpet of Adhesion or through a Mystic Net launched at it. Then, by the time your players catch up to it, they suddenly find they're facing a dozen or more of them and all of them wanting the characters' blood. Let the spells fly as they may, the more they get hit with them, the more there will be, at least until your players figure it out.

[MADMANMIKE]

Wear them down. P.P.E. recovery takes time and doesn't happen on the run...

[Cinos]

Dispels do exist, it's the only generally accessible way to deal with carpet beyond flight.

[Cinos]

Also, no sane Palladium player (well and those who are good at lying) should tell you either of those spells are fair (Carpet and Net), they're so busted it's not funny, and it's easy for players to legit trivialize any encounter not designed around those two spells. As the GM, feel free to nerf the heck out of them. Out of curiosity, how's the earth Elemental being controlled? Big boy warlock summon (i.e the ones that only last a set duration), or is it one of the smaller spell versions that can be pretty busted or some other?

[Cinos]

Also, no sane Palladium player (well and those who are good at lying) should tell you either of those spells are fair (Carpet and Net), they're so busted it's not funny, and it's easy for players to legit trivialize any encounter not designed around those two spells. As the GM, feel free to nerf the heck out of them. Out of curiosity, how's the earth Elemental being controlled? Big boy warlock summon (i.e the ones that only last a set duration), or is it one of the smaller spell versions that can be pretty busted or some other?

He doesn't really use one, he never summons one. His spells are just so damn powerful that he doesn't feel the need to use one I guess. But then again I might have no idea what I am doing with this. I am not familiar with an magic class other than wizard, witch, and necromancer.

Warlock, from a mechanical level, works the same as a wizard in every way, same cast times and all that, their spells are still spells and subject to the same weaknesses.

[MADMANMIKE]

Also, no sane Palladium player (well and those who are good at lying) should tell you either of those spells are fair (Carpet and Net), they're so busted it's not funny, and it's easy for players to legit trivialize any encounter not designed around those two spells. As the GM, feel free to nerf the heck out of them. Out of curiosity, how's the earth Elemental being controlled? Big boy warlock summon (i.e the ones that only last a set duration), or is it one of the smaller spell versions that can be pretty busted or some other?

He doesn't really use one, he never summons one. His spells are just so damn powerful that he doesn't feel the need to use one I guess. But then again I might have no idea what I am doing with this. I am not familiar with an magic class other than wizard, witch, and necromancer.

So he's a munchkin; Doesn't summon an elemental because the percentile chance of success is deemed too low to be worth the bother.. The player who's been with me the longest is like that, I feel for you. It's like they can't wrap their mind around the notion that the object of an RPG is NOT to "win"... In my player's case, it's all about becoming something he deems awesome because he doesn't like who he is.. Good "Role-players" are more concerned with exploring archetypes than compensating for something that's lacking in their own lives...

[The Dark Elf]

Wait til the elemental starts spamming petrification...

[Cinos]

Also, no sane Palladium player (well and those who are good at lying) should tell you either of those spells are fair (Carpet and Net), they're so busted it's not funny, and it's easy for players to legit trivialize any encounter not designed around those two spells. As the GM, feel free to nerf the heck out of them. Out of curiosity, how's the earth Elemental being controlled? Big boy warlock summon (i.e the ones that only last a set duration), or is it one of the smaller spell versions that can be pretty busted or some other?

He doesn't really use one, he never summons one. His spells are just so damn powerful that he doesn't feel the need to use one I guess. But then again I might have no idea what I am doing with this. I am not familiar with an magic class other than wizard, witch, and necromancer.

So he's a munchkin; Doesn't summon an elemental because the percentile chance of success is deemed too low to be worth the bother.. The player who's been with me the longest is like that, I feel for you. It's like they can't wrap their mind around the notion that the object of an RPG is NOT to "win"... In my player's case, it's all about becoming something he deems awesome because he doesn't like who he is.. Good "Role-players" are more concerned with exploring archetypes than compensating for something that's lacking in their own lives...

Calling someone a munchkin, more so in a clearly offensive aspect, is pretty short sighted. So am I missing something in my life MADMANMIKE? Or perhaps are you for a blind need to attack people you've never met because they play a game different then you do? And that door swings both ways, if they're compensating and using a game to live out power fantasy's does that make you someone cloistered in their own world with a suppressed urge to explore because you don't do anything out of the norm? RPG's are meant to be played how its players wish it to be played, not how one person or group wishes them to be played.

NOW both the GM and the Players need to be on the same page to be paired well so everyone has a lot of fun, and it sounds like this conflict of desires is the driving problem here. (I say this next part with no intended offense to the OP); This problem is exasperated if the GM is worse at the mechanical aspects then the player(s), which I'm forced to assume is the case here (What with the asking for help). This game in particular, it's pretty easy to counter heavy power builds with obscure tactica, It's also pretty easy to counter them with high Prowl skill assassins, dispels, flight, and a literal and firm grip of the rules with a willingness to change them when stupid things happen. The OP should always keep in mind, Palladium Fantasy is not a mechanically sound game. And it has no internal balance nor does the game have a sense of 'fair' (most games do not, players may, but games rarely do).

Now reading your response to MADMANMIKE's post, I will state it is less likely a problem with any of that, and a problem with the player (no, not a problem that he's a 'munchkin'), that he's either being intentionally destructive to the game, or is just dumb (perhaps autistic). Now of course, the social aspect of the game being some what trickier then the game itself, I would suggest talking with them (as a group) and bringing up these concerns. The GM is still a player of the game, they should be enjoying themselves in some respect as well, and it sounds like this is causing you undo stress about what is in effect a game (Of course for someone like me, that's more fun drinking the bitter tears of PC's to warm my black soul).

Warning: Let's keep personal comments out of this.

[Stone Gargoyle]

Creating puzzles for the players to solve, making it less about them always fighting, might make the game more challenging. If your players are making the game too simple, make it harder other ways than simply being about battles.

[Stone Gargoyle]

Creating puzzles for the players to solve, making it less about them always fighting, might make the game more challenging. If your players are making the game too simple, make it harder other ways than simply being about battles.

Now this is something I can sink my teeth into, although I doubt my players would like this kind of game. They might just out right quit on it.

You could always try it out and see if they like it. I doubt it can be that much fun for them if they are getting through battles that quickly. But then, all players are different. You will have to come to a happy middle ground at some point, though, or it will degenerate into nobody having any fun and the game stopping.

[zyanitevp]

Create scenarios that can only be solved with skills, teamwork, and thought- if they rush in and attack they will die!

[Stone Gargoyle]

Create scenarios that can only be solved with skills, teamwork, and thought- if they rush in and attack they will die!

Basically my point. Players who try and rush in my games only get frustrated.

[Cinos]

I wouldn't call myself a master of this games knowledge at all, but I know enough about it to run a fairly well made game (Not the best someone has ever had, but good enough to thoroughly enjoy). The problem is that I am balancing full time school and work and barely have time to actually read through these books. I have the main book down, but its the world books that I lack on. The real problem is that the story I have written out is basically just too easy for these characters. I have an issue with presenting really strong foes, because somehow I either make it too easy or too damn hard.

I would like to point out that in the group we also have a master collector with six sense, so it is also hard to surprise them, because even when I try to just justify the surprise as magically cloaked or something, the master collector literally ***** at me for twenty minutes on how my game is bull ****. The other two players never care, and like the new event. But the master collector can just be annoying (the same guy who in his past character rode the lighting into the crowd that I mentioned earlier btw).

My game knowledge is pretty good, and I was just asking for opinions on how to deal with this. I didn't expect to be called a **** GM but its whatever I guess.

Throw a treat to your master collector then, stage a multi-pronged ambush, and just see if you can't drain him of his I.S.P. Start with some traps (triggering with each trap), then have some goblins (or whatever), come out of some bushes that where a diversion for some flanking ogres (backed by a caster with access to dispels), which in turn delay the party for a third ambush from above and so on. Also for some advice from one GM to another; Don't plan so much. Just get some quick stats or just make stats up on the fly (+X to Strike / parry, a reasonable damage for it's type (swarm enemies need to do less, bigger low number of enemies can do more), and a handful of SDC), and stay flexible. You'll hate your 'job' of GMing less, your players will typically like you more (less rail roading = more freedom to roam), and you can respond to those random surprises any group will throw at you to disrupt your plans. You never really want more then a frame work, and some key points for a session or two in advance. Another road is to use the Sixth Sense to your edge, all it does is alert the person to danger, it's not all knowing or even infallible. I had a player do something similar when a negotiation turned violent, he complained his sense should have triggered well before. So then his sense just started going off over anything, gopher holes he might trip in, rusty nails in a dungeon, an unsheathed dagger on the table used to cut meat, it's all a danger after all! I wouldn't quite suggest being that big a jerk about it (I assume you enjoy the company of these people and might be sad if they dropped), but it's an option to explore. If it's worse then that for you, and he just throws temper tantrums and **** fits any time things don't go his way, I could only suggest cutting him.

I'll also point out I didn't call you a bad GM, I said one of the players likely had a better knowledge of the game then you, which has little bearing on your ability to be a GM honestly. If a player has more knowledge of the game (whichever game) than the person running it, they can abuse that information for their gain, or argue angels to their benefit (often at the cost of the game's overall enjoyment). It's also possible the player is simply disruptive and should just be cut from the game (of course I can't tell from this side of the screen talking about a person I've never met in a group I've never gamed with).

Stone Gargoyle also brings up a good point, if it's something that can be pulled off with the group, doesn't always take, but it could be a solid path.

[Stone Gargoyle]

Creating puzzles for the players to solve, making it less about them always fighting, might make the game more challenging. If your players are making the game too simple, make it harder other ways than simply being about battles.

Now this is something I can sink my teeth into, although I doubt my players would like this kind of game. They might just out right quit on it.

You could always try it out and see if they like it. I doubt it can be that much fun for them if they are getting through battles that quickly. But then, all players are different. You will have to come to a happy middle ground at some point, though, or it will degenerate into nobody having any fun and the game stopping.

I think I'll try with simple puzzles like ones that require moving pieces into a picture to unlock doors or something. Then maybe I'll try out riddles and what not. If I slowly incorporate them they may enjoy it more. This is some good advice, thanks man!

It doesn't work for everyone, but I like story-driven campaigns as opposed to battle-driven ones. But even then, the players may go in directions you are not prepared for, so prepare for every contingency.

Stone Gargoyle also brings up a good point, if it's something that can be pulled off with the group, doesn't always take, but it could be a solid path.

I'm just cool like that, yo.

[MADMANMIKE]

Create scenarios that can only be solved with skills, teamwork, and thought- if they rush in and attack they will die!

This. I've run campaigns where the players had three whole gaming sessions without a single combat, and loved every minute of it.

Where have you been setting your game? Some places may expect the characters to check their weapons at the door and impose heavy fines for unauthorized use of magic; likewise they could have anti-magic measures in place (read- Mystic Energy Drain wards (P.F. pg. 129) that would force the characters to rely on those skills they should have written down on their character sheets at the beginning..

[Stone Gargoyle]

Do let us know how things go.

[St. Evil]

Mryoto wrote, I would like to point out that in the group we also have a master collector with six sense, so it is also hard to surprise them, because even when I try to just justify the surprise as magically cloaked or something, the master collector literally ***** at me for twenty minutes on how my game is bull ****. The other two players never care, and like the new event. But the master collector can just be annoying (the same guy who in his past character rode the lighting into the crowd that I mentioned earlier btw).

My game knowledge is pretty good, and I was just asking for opinions on how to deal with this. I didn't expect to be called a **** GM but its whatever I guess.[/quote]

Remember w/ Sixth Sense you control the motivations of the NPC's if you have a scenario where they are to be captured only, then the sixth sense will not trigger, then you are justifiable in saying, "They had orders to capture you for XYZ, if you respond w/deadly force then you should expect the danger and it does not go off." Since Sixth Sense is only "triggered by an unexpected life threatening event."

[Stone Gargoyle]

, I would like to point out that in the group we also have a master collector with six sense, so it is also hard to surprise them, because even when I try to just justify the surprise as magically cloaked or something, the master collector literally ***** at me for twenty minutes on how my game is bull ****. The other two players never care, and like the new event. But the master collector can just be annoying (the same guy who in his past character rode the lighting into the crowd that I mentioned earlier btw).

My game knowledge is pretty good, and I was just asking for opinions on how to deal with this. I didn't expect to be called a **** GM but its whatever I guess.

Remember w/ Sixth Sense you control the motivations of the NPC's if you have a scenario where they are to be captured only, then the sixth sense will not trigger, then you are justifiable in saying, "They had orders to capture you for XYZ, if you respond w/deadly force then you should expect the danger and it does not go off." Since Sixth Sense is only "triggered by an unexpected life threatening event."

Yes, it does appear that his players abuse their abilities, or at least the one does. Personally, I would not put up with a player like that.

[The Dark Elf]

Mryoto wrote, I would like to point out that in the group we also have a master collector with six sense, so it is also hard to surprise them, because even when I try to just justify the surprise as magically cloaked or something, the master collector literally ***** at me for twenty minutes on how my game is bull ****. The other two players never care, and like the new event. But the master collector can just be annoying (the same guy who in his past character rode the lighting into the crowd that I mentioned earlier btw).

My game knowledge is pretty good, and I was just asking for opinions on how to deal with this. I didn't expect to be called a **** GM but its whatever I guess.

Remember w/ Sixth Sense you control the motivations of the NPC's if you have a scenario where they are to be captured only, then the sixth sense will not trigger, then you are justifiable in saying, "They had orders to capture you for XYZ, if you respond w/deadly force then you should expect the danger and it does not go off." Since Sixth Sense is only "triggered by an unexpected life threatening event."[/quote]

Remember the film Minority report? When the villain knows the future will be predicted so he camouflages his murder over the pediction of another.

A clever villain who knows the Master collector has sixth sense can send in an enemy (familiar?) and allow the sixth sense to go off was simultaneously attacking from another direction.

Or send in a "flock" of monsters and suddenly the master collector has so many sixth senses going off that he is out of ISP.

[zyanitevp]

Create scenarios that can only be solved with skills, teamwork, and thought- if they rush in and attack they will die!

Maybe I'll use a dragon! Haha. But yeah I have used some good old acid pits and what not, but the group is actually really well designed for problem solving without having to think about it much. I'm thinking I'll combine this with Stone's idea of using puzzles. If you fail the puzzle you die kind of thing.

You can always overcome someone who is abusing their powers 2 different ways- giving them a situation they cannot win (you laughed about the dragon, but I have used just that effectively before) or by nullifying the advantage. The trapping of a sixth sense character works extremely well- not life threatening.