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What are some of the things you've learned to always/never do in order to avoid giving the GM unnecessary leverage over your character?

I'll start with the first one I learned: Never play a race that qualifies as a Lesser Being for the purposes of the Summon Lesser Being spell. One of my first GMs would whisk qualifying player characters away whenever he felt like it. It was super frustrating if the antagonist could summon you at will to do his bidding...

--flatline

flatline wrote:What are some of the things you've learned to always/never do in order to avoid giving the GM unnecessary leverage over your character?

I'll start with the first one I learned: Never play a race that qualifies as a Lesser Being for the purposes of the Summon Lesser Being spell. One of my first GMs would whisk qualifying player characters away whenever he felt like it. It was super frustrating if the antagonist could summon you at will to do his bidding...

--flatline

That's solved by another rule I learned: Never, under any circumstances, tell anyone your characters real name. Your real name is your true name. Without that you can't be summoned. Always use a psudonym or a nickname.

I learned a long time ago, "Always look "UP"." When you enter a room, an alley, a building, a tunnel, a hallway, or even the woods. "Looks around. Front, both sides, down around my feet, behind, and UP." Always look up!!

Drop one black spiral dancer on my head in a tunnel and botch the roll and frenzy in thrall of the wyrm and end up skull humping the corpse... .shame on you..... if it happens TWICE... shame on me...

Once is all it took. I'm actually 'renown' in our groups for looking up.

Always get paid up front. Our Cyberpunk GM was renowned for screwing you after missions were over.

avoid using wishes

Damian Magecraft wrote:avoid using wishes

What kind of wishes do you have in mind? I wasn't aware that there were wishes in any palladium settings.

--flatline

flatline wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:avoid using wishes

What kind of wishes do you have in mind? I wasn't aware that there were wishes in any palladium settings.

--flatline

If you capture a Jinn Demon, it is required by some kind of magical law to grant you three "wishes". I say "wishes" because your character will make a "wish" and the Jinn is FORCED to do everything in its power to grant your wish. However, the Jinn will do everything in its power to twist your characters wish to where it ultimately back fires.

Rule of Thumb - Have Lore: Demons & Monsters. Never. Ever. Ever. EVER. Trust a Jinn.

Johnathan wrote:

flatline wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:avoid using wishes

What kind of wishes do you have in mind? I wasn't aware that there were wishes in any palladium settings.

--flatline

If you capture a Jinn Demon, it is required by some kind of magical law to grant you three "wishes". I say "wishes" because your character will make a "wish" and the Jinn is FORCED to do everything in its power to grant your wish. However, the Jinn will do everything in its power to twist your characters wish to where it ultimately back fires.

Rule of Thumb - Have Lore: Demons & Monsters. Never. Ever. Ever. EVER. Trust a Jinn.

I beleive an example in one book is the PC wishes for jewels. so the demon uses it's powers to steal the crown jewels from a nearby king and leaves an obvious trail back to the PC's...

I generally don't play with jerk GMs who'll screw me over unnecessarily.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Johnathan wrote:

flatline wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:avoid using wishes

What kind of wishes do you have in mind? I wasn't aware that there were wishes in any palladium settings.

--flatline

If you capture a Jinn Demon, it is required by some kind of magical law to grant you three "wishes". I say "wishes" because your character will make a "wish" and the Jinn is FORCED to do everything in its power to grant your wish. However, the Jinn will do everything in its power to twist your characters wish to where it ultimately back fires.

Rule of Thumb - Have Lore: Demons & Monsters. Never. Ever. Ever. EVER. Trust a Jinn.

I beleive an example in one book is the PC wishes for jewels. so the demon uses it's powers to steal the crown jewels from a nearby king and leaves an obvious trail back to the PC's...

Or transports the wisher into the vault with the crown jewels and 'innocently' triggers the alarms in the process.

Killer Cyborg wrote:I generally don't play with jerk GMs who'll screw me over unnecessarily.

Agree with this 100%
With the exception of if the GM does so for occasional comedic effect and does that stuff to all pcs present equally.

Nightmask wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Johnathan wrote:

flatline wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:avoid using wishes

What kind of wishes do you have in mind? I wasn't aware that there were wishes in any palladium settings.

--flatline

If you capture a Jinn Demon, it is required by some kind of magical law to grant you three "wishes". I say "wishes" because your character will make a "wish" and the Jinn is FORCED to do everything in its power to grant your wish. However, the Jinn will do everything in its power to twist your characters wish to where it ultimately back fires.

Rule of Thumb - Have Lore: Demons & Monsters. Never. Ever. Ever. EVER. Trust a Jinn.

I beleive an example in one book is the PC wishes for jewels. so the demon uses it's powers to steal the crown jewels from a nearby king and leaves an obvious trail back to the PC's...

Or transports the wisher into the vault with the crown jewels and 'innocently' triggers the alarms in the process.

This was in palladium fantasy...alarm systems would be a bit anachronistic

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Nightmask wrote:Or transports the wisher into the vault with the crown jewels and 'innocently' triggers the alarms in the process.

This was in palladium fantasy...alarm systems would be a bit anachronistic

No, people have been installing alarm systems and means of detecting intrusion for centuries. Royalty in particular have money enough to pay for the smartest of designers to set up ways of detecting intruders and sounding alarms.

Well, not for Rifts (or any PB setting for that matter), but for D&D, never pull a card from the Deck of Many Things.

For something more related to Rifts, never trust the Black Marketeer who says "Trust Me".

Nekira, what about magical alarms? Aren't there spells of alarm or something?

Johnathan wrote:I say "wishes" because your character will make a "wish" and the Jinn is FORCED to do everything in its power to grant your wish. However, the Jinn will do everything in its power to twist your characters wish to where it ultimately back fires.

Don't make wishes when the wish giver is a slave, perhaps?

dragonfett wrote:Well, not for Rifts (or any PB setting for that matter), but for D&D, never pull a card from the Deck of Many Things.

For something more related to Rifts, never trust the Black Marketeer who says "Trust Me".

Nekira, what about magical alarms? Aren't there spells of alarm or something?

Palladium Fantasy does have an equivalent, it's called "The Hand of Fate" and is in one of the Rifters (can't remember which one). My group found it at one point, and yeah, for some of the PCs it definitely resulted in bad things. So don't pull from the Hand of Fate, just leave it alone.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:I learned a long time ago, "Always look "UP"." When you enter a room, an alley, a building, a tunnel, a hallway, or even the woods. "Looks around. Front, both sides, down around my feet, behind, and UP." Always look up!!

Drop one black spiral dancer on my head in a tunnel and botch the roll and frenzy in thrall of the wyrm and end up skull humping the corpse... .shame on you..... if it happens TWICE... shame on me...

Once is all it took. I'm actually 'renown' in our groups for looking up.

You would be surprised how often people forget this one.

Never run down a dark hallway/alley alone after the bad guy.
Always carry a backup weapon. (My GM's like to brake mine)
Never attack a creature you do not recognize.
Learn when to run away.
Always make sure of your target instead of firing blinding at a target in the middle of a combat, it might be a random innocent in the way. (I use this one on occasion in my games and I usually do it in the dark and am vague about what they see if it is reasonable)

Icefalcon wrote:Never run down a dark hallway/alley alone after the bad guy.
Always carry a backup weapon. (My GM's like to brake mine)
Never attack a creature you do not recognize.
Learn when to run away.
Always make sure of your target instead of firing blinding at a target in the middle of a combat, it might be a random innocent in the way. (I use this one on occasion in my games and I usually do it in the dark and am vague about what they see if it is reasonable)

Yeah on that the GM likes to break weapons thing... Weapons are hard targets to hit (requiring a called shot)and most of them are megadamage structures in Rifts. Having them break all the time is a prime example of a douchebag GM.

Smashed wrote:I've learned to not worry about the GM having leverage over my character, and just play my character and have fun.

For some GM's its not about having fun... It's about winning the game or railroading the way the game is heading or something else in their twisted psyche and it's really not any fun to play with them but they may be for whatever reason your only option so you learn to work around them.

Godogma wrote:

Smashed wrote:I've learned to not worry about the GM having leverage over my character, and just play my character and have fun.

For some GM's its not about having fun... It's about winning the game or railroading the way the game is heading or something else in their twisted psyche and it's really not any fun to play with them but they may be for whatever reason your only option so you learn to work around them.

There is no such thing as no other options. With Skype, Chats, PbP, and the such there are always other options. A Bad GM is never your only choice.

Godogma wrote:Yeah on that the GM likes to break weapons thing... Weapons are hard targets to hit (requiring a called shot)and most of them are megadamage structures in Rifts. Having them break all the time is a prime example of a douchebag GM.

Not always in Rifts when that happens. As for MDC weapons, they have light MDC and are rather easy to break considering Rifts power creep.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Godogma wrote:

Smashed wrote:I've learned to not worry about the GM having leverage over my character, and just play my character and have fun.

For some GM's its not about having fun... It's about winning the game or railroading the way the game is heading or something else in their twisted psyche and it's really not any fun to play with them but they may be for whatever reason your only option so you learn to work around them.

There is no such thing as no other options. With Skype, Chats, PbP, and the such there are always other options. A Bad GM is never your only choice.

Those options require a computer. I know at least 2 dozen gamers that do not own one or do not have an internet connection. As for myself, Skype is out considering lack of camera, chats and PbP have never interested me. You are correct there are other options but sometimes you are very limited in them.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Godogma wrote:

Smashed wrote:I've learned to not worry about the GM having leverage over my character, and just play my character and have fun.

For some GM's its not about having fun... It's about winning the game or railroading the way the game is heading or something else in their twisted psyche and it's really not any fun to play with them but they may be for whatever reason your only option so you learn to work around them.

There is no such thing as no other options. With Skype, Chats, PbP, and the such there are always other options. A Bad GM is never your only choice.

But even a good GM can have quirks that need to be tolerated or worked around.

--flatline

Icefalcon wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Godogma wrote:

Smashed wrote:I've learned to not worry about the GM having leverage over my character, and just play my character and have fun.

For some GM's its not about having fun... It's about winning the game or railroading the way the game is heading or something else in their twisted psyche and it's really not any fun to play with them but they may be for whatever reason your only option so you learn to work around them.

There is no such thing as no other options. With Skype, Chats, PbP, and the such there are always other options. A Bad GM is never your only choice.

Those options require a computer. I know at least 2 dozen gamers that do not own one or do not have an internet connection. As for myself, Skype is out considering lack of camera, chats and PbP have never interested me. You are correct there are other options but sometimes you are very limited in them.

skype does not require a camera (at least the games I have played in were just voice)...
I too Know those who do not own a computer but even they will not remain with a bad gm (no game being better than a bad one for them).
However those that complain online about bad games and no access to alternatives get no sympathies from me (for the obvious reasons).
Learning to GM is easy enough.
I would wager many GMs got their start by taking over in disgust or on a dare. (I know thats how I got my start, A "bad GM" challenged me after the group complained one too many times "if you think you can do better then you GM!" That person never requested to take back the spot nor did anyone ask me to surrender my new spot... more the pity for me for I do enjoy sitting the other side of the screen as well.)

flatline wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Godogma wrote:

Smashed wrote:I've learned to not worry about the GM having leverage over my character, and just play my character and have fun.

For some GM's its not about having fun... It's about winning the game or railroading the way the game is heading or something else in their twisted psyche and it's really not any fun to play with them but they may be for whatever reason your only option so you learn to work around them.

There is no such thing as no other options. With Skype, Chats, PbP, and the such there are always other options. A Bad GM is never your only choice.

But even a good GM can have quirks that need to be tolerated or worked around.

--flatline

I disagree...
The quirks are what make the GM "good."

Feel free to disagree but some quirks definitely aren't good and a lot of the time the results of what happens when the GM shows signs of them not being work around possible is the group disbanding and going its separate ways leaving him sitting there going "What? We were having fun?"

I had just awakened when I wrote that but yeah a lot of gamers don't have a computer and many of them would rather play than not. I'm of the second option myself; if the GM is a douche I just don't play.

I GM but I also enjoy playing; though I haven't been able to play Rifts in forever - finding a GM you can tolerate for Rifts is nearly impossible considering how rare finding players for it is at least here in the SE corner of the US.

Godogma wrote:Feel free to disagree but some quirks definitely aren't good and a lot of the time the results of what happens when the GM shows signs of them not being work around possible is the group disbanding and going its separate ways leaving him sitting there going "What? We were having fun?"

I had just awakened when I wrote that but yeah a lot of gamers don't have a computer and many of them would rather play than not. I'm of the second option myself; if the GM is a douche I just don't play.

I GM but I also enjoy playing; though I haven't been able to play Rifts in forever - finding a GM you can tolerate for Rifts is nearly impossible considering how rare finding players for it is at least here in the SE corner of the US.

depends on what you are looking for in a gm.

No it doesn't. Most stores here don't even offer anything by Palladium books for sale I haven't seen a gaming store within 100 miles of here that sells Palladium Books. Most of them look at you in bemused fashion and say "You mean Palladium Books hasn't gone out of business yet?". This needless to say kinda limits the pool of players.

Rifts is their most popular game, but it's still a very niche product and Palladium/Kevin isn't doing anything to bring it back in any area of the country save where he lives perhaps (I couldn't speak to that as I don't live there). But that's a topic for another thread - it's been covered time and time again how they could improve matters.

Godogma wrote:No it doesn't. Most stores here don't even offer anything by Palladium books for sale I haven't seen a gaming store within 100 miles of here that sells Palladium Books. Most of them look at you in bemused fashion and say "You mean Palladium Books hasn't gone out of business yet?". This needless to say kinda limits the pool of players.

Rifts is their most popular game, but it's still a very niche product and Palladium/Kevin isn't doing anything to bring it back in any area of the country save where he lives perhaps (I couldn't speak to that as I don't live there). But that's a topic for another thread - it's been covered time and time again how they could improve matters.

My response to the highlighted text when I am presented with it at a shop is
"Are you trying to lose a customer?" (you would be surprised how fast that changes a shop owners tune).
I have only had one ask me why I would think that...
my response was "I cannot trust you to give me advice on the hobby if you cannot be bothered to be properly informed about the hobby."

Icefalcon wrote:

Godogma wrote:Yeah on that the GM likes to break weapons thing... Weapons are hard targets to hit (requiring a called shot)and most of them are megadamage structures in Rifts. Having them break all the time is a prime example of a douchebag GM.

Not always in Rifts when that happens. As for MDC weapons, they have light MDC and are rather easy to break considering Rifts power creep.

I actually agree with Godogma.. if your GM is routinely breaking your weapons he's a Dbag. I've been playing over 20 years. I can count the number of times my weapon has broken on one.. maybe two hands, and those times were perfectly reasonable.

More than once on these boards I've heard of GMs that seem to delight in letting you roll a character, then destroying all your weapons. There was one thread where a guy ended up with a SDC pistol or something in Rifts earth trying to do adventures against people with MD weapons and armor.

I get 'challenge' but yeah... those guys are Dbags. I wouldn't play with um. A 'challenge' isn't taking on a god with a sharpened stick.

Icefalcon wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Godogma wrote:

Smashed wrote:I've learned to not worry about the GM having leverage over my character, and just play my character and have fun.

For some GM's its not about having fun... It's about winning the game or railroading the way the game is heading or something else in their twisted psyche and it's really not any fun to play with them but they may be for whatever reason your only option so you learn to work around them.

There is no such thing as no other options. With Skype, Chats, PbP, and the such there are always other options. A Bad GM is never your only choice.

Those options require a computer. I know at least 2 dozen gamers that do not own one or do not have an internet connection. As for myself, Skype is out considering lack of camera, chats and PbP have never interested me. You are correct there are other options but sometimes you are very limited in them.

You know two dozen gamers.... assuming gamers to be at least teens or older... who don't have a computer in the year 2012? Do you game in Modadeshu? You actually know, 24 different gamers, and not one of them has a computer or internet?

LOL

Gimme a break.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Godogma wrote:No it doesn't. Most stores here don't even offer anything by Palladium books for sale I haven't seen a gaming store within 100 miles of here that sells Palladium Books. Most of them look at you in bemused fashion and say "You mean Palladium Books hasn't gone out of business yet?". This needless to say kinda limits the pool of players.

Rifts is their most popular game, but it's still a very niche product and Palladium/Kevin isn't doing anything to bring it back in any area of the country save where he lives perhaps (I couldn't speak to that as I don't live there). But that's a topic for another thread - it's been covered time and time again how they could improve matters.

My response to the highlighted text when I am presented with it at a shop is
"Are you trying to lose a customer?" (you would be surprised how fast that changes a shop owners tune).
I have only had one ask me why I would think that...
my response was "I cannot trust you to give me advice on the hobby if you cannot be bothered to be properly informed about the hobby."

Not really. If you fired that at ____ANY_____ Of the game store owners I've known since I started about 20 years ago they'd smirk at you and shrug and say something to the tune of 'Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, jerk'. (( Probably a bit more colorful to be honest. But... Palladium filters and all))

NOT Saying that the stores want to lose customers, but we're talking nitch stores to start with and if you get all militant and pissy like that, the game store owners I've met (( Just my own personal sampling over two decades)) Would laugh in your face and tell you to get out, before they'd grovel at your feet and beg you to stay.

If you fire off the "I cannot trust you to give me advice on the hobby if you cannot be bothered to be properly informed about the hobby" Would get a similar response. People talk REAAAAALY big on the internet. IRL. They typically don't. If they do go off on staff like that, most places would rather NOT have you as a customer if you're going to be a jerk.

There are no places where I live that carry Palladium. The one game store when asked DID say that they thought palladium had gone out of business. But it wasn't really their fault. up till the past month or two, Palladium has not advertised in 10 years and they can't hit their own self imposed release dates so many distributors stopped carrying them.

Still.... yeah.. You go off all swarmy and snotty on game store owners, doesn't make them kiss your but to try and retain your business. It usually gets you laughed out of the store for being a jerk.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:...up till the past month or two, Palladium has not advertised in 10 years...

Palladium advertised?! Where?

All the game store owners I know of would say some variant of the same. "There's the door, get the hell out of my store." is probably the least of the things you'd get told by the ones around here. Palladium Books isn't popular as a company, very few distributors do any business with them and until they clean up their act very few stores are going to bother with them.

Temperamental PB customers who get uppity? Yeah, they get less respect than the company itself does. They aren't worried about losing one customer's business unless you routinely go in to buy several hundred dollars worth of product and thus aid them more than ephemerally in paying their bills.

Godogma wrote:All the game store owners I know of would say some variant of the same. "There's the door, get the hell out of my store." is probably the least of the things you'd get told by the ones around here. Palladium Books isn't popular as a company, very few distributors do any business with them and until they clean up their act very few stores are going to bother with them.

Temperamental PB customers who get uppity? Yeah, they get less respect than the company itself does. They aren't worried about losing one customer's business unless you routinely go in to buy several hundred dollars worth of product and thus aid them more than ephemerally in paying their bills.

its worked for me every time...
But then I dont just buy palladium products either.
And if he wants to watch a $1000 sale walk out thats his business (but I dont know many who are THAT financially stable).
Around here if a customer threatens to take his business elsewhere it gets the owners attention. (Then again maybe its because in the stores I frequent the owner and the clerk are not often the same person.)

Nightmask wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Nightmask wrote:Or transports the wisher into the vault with the crown jewels and 'innocently' triggers the alarms in the process.

This was in palladium fantasy...alarm systems would be a bit anachronistic

No, people have been installing alarm systems and means of detecting intrusion for centuries. Royalty in particular have money enough to pay for the smartest of designers to set up ways of detecting intruders and sounding alarms.

Your going to have to give examples. Also remember that the middle ages don't equal the rennissance. Try looking for examples around 800 AD instead of 1700 AD.

Not Palladium, but still a warning...

If you run into somebody in the middle of nowhere, who's rich, powerful, apparently unconcerned about his surroundings, and too too friendly, and he doesn't formally introduce himself while schmoosing with you, DON'T ASK HIS NAME. Beg that you've just GOT to leave and scram as fast as you can.
Had a party run into just that while exploring an ancient temple. Almost ALL of us smelled a trap. We all ALMOST made it out of the guy's presence, without drinking any of his offered booze or eating of the spread he'd laid out, before one of the idiots in the party asked "By the way, who are you anyways?"

The Greater Demon's Name counted as an UNHOLY WORD, and effectively did across the board damage to all of us, leaving us stunned for the follow-up attack by the now fully transformed Demon and his retinue.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Nightmask wrote:Or transports the wisher into the vault with the crown jewels and 'innocently' triggers the alarms in the process.

This was in palladium fantasy...alarm systems would be a bit anachronistic

No, people have been installing alarm systems and means of detecting intrusion for centuries. Royalty in particular have money enough to pay for the smartest of designers to set up ways of detecting intruders and sounding alarms.

Your going to have to give examples. Also remember that the middle ages don't equal the rennissance. Try looking for examples around 800 AD instead of 1700 AD.

It doesn't take much to rig a string or wire to an entrance and run it to an alarm bell, certainly not a product of 18th century technology. Plus as someone else noted they do have magical alarm wards available for Palladium fantasy. Really the 'alarmed and trapped' treasure chest or treasure room is a genre staple for fantasy settings.

If it seems to good to be true , then it's a set up.

Then again the best type of fun is with players from other gms, for them I just a straight adventure with no fooling around, and just watch them overreact to everything.

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:If it seems to good to be true , then it's a set up.

Then again the best type of fun is with players from other gms, for them I just a straight adventure with no fooling around, and just watch them overreact to everything.

"It was a rat. You wasted a sub-kiloton tactical plasma missile on a dumb rat."
"But it could have been a nanite vector! Or an anti-personnel robot! Or a shapeshifing monster PRETENDING to be a rat!"
"You nuked a rat that was angling for your sandwich and set the whole apartment block on fire. AND called the city guard down on us."

taalismn wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:If it seems to good to be true , then it's a set up.

Then again the best type of fun is with players from other gms, for them I just a straight adventure with no fooling around, and just watch them overreact to everything.

"It was a rat. You wasted a sub-kiloton tactical plasma missile on a dumb rat."
"But it could have been a nanite vector! Or an anti-personnel robot! Or a shapeshifing monster PRETENDING to be a rat!"
"You nuked a rat that was angling for your sandwich and set the whole apartment block on fire. AND called the city guard down on us."

Or that rat could have been one of the Smallkin from the Paladin Steel area, planning to fubar the whole party with a contra-gravity grenade

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Godogma wrote:All the game store owners I know of would say some variant of the same. "There's the door, get the hell out of my store." is probably the least of the things you'd get told by the ones around here. Palladium Books isn't popular as a company, very few distributors do any business with them and until they clean up their act very few stores are going to bother with them.

Temperamental PB customers who get uppity? Yeah, they get less respect than the company itself does. They aren't worried about losing one customer's business unless you routinely go in to buy several hundred dollars worth of product and thus aid them more than ephemerally in paying their bills.

its worked for me every time...
But then I dont just buy palladium products either.
And if he wants to watch a $1000 sale walk out thats his business (but I dont know many who are THAT financially stable).
Around here if a customer threatens to take his business elsewhere it gets the owners attention. (Then again maybe its because in the stores I frequent the owner and the clerk are not often the same person.)

So you routinely walk in and buy $1000 worth of gamebooks? and this has 'Worked for you every time" Meaning multiple times? Come on Damian... Seriously? How many people buy books A grand at a time? You walk in and are asking to buy 40 to 60 Palladium books at once?

I just don't buy it. Again, Game stores are pretty nitch. While they do NOT want to lose sales, they generally would rather lose a sale than some jerk off the street threatening to smack them around with their patronage. If you're so quick to threaten to go somewhere else, who WOULD want to deal with you?

Godogma wrote:

taalismn wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:If it seems to good to be true , then it's a set up.

Then again the best type of fun is with players from other gms, for them I just a straight adventure with no fooling around, and just watch them overreact to everything.

"It was a rat. You wasted a sub-kiloton tactical plasma missile on a dumb rat."
"But it could have been a nanite vector! Or an anti-personnel robot! Or a shapeshifing monster PRETENDING to be a rat!"
"You nuked a rat that was angling for your sandwich and set the whole apartment block on fire. AND called the city guard down on us."

Or that rat could have been one of the Smallkin from the Paladin Steel area, planning to fubar the whole party with a contra-gravity grenade

he was planning to steal the players' cheese.

Well, if you show up and start actually forking out the cash and helping pay their bills they might humor you as an uppity customer. But most people don't have a grand or more a month to blow on books or cards or whatnot else. We generally prefer to pay bills and eat.

You're among the fraction of 1% of Palladium Book's customers who might get a game store to actually change buying practices just for you. But the most consideration that's going to get is offering to order the books for you; they're still not going to stock the system beyond maybe 1 or 2 more copies. It's just not popular enough and after you have your copy of the book they aren't going to sell many more of it.

Then again, if you're rich enough to affect the bottom line of a game store to that extent perhaps you buy copies enough for your entire gaming group?

Personally I'm with Pepsi Jedi and my deduction is your order your Palladium Books online like the rest of us when Kevin sends us our updates that the books you wanted are finally back from the printers.

Godogma wrote:Well, if you show up and start actually forking out the cash and helping pay their bills they might humor you as an uppity customer. But most people don't have a grand or more a month to blow on books or cards or whatnot else. We generally prefer to pay bills and eat.

You're among the fraction of 1% of Palladium Book's customers who might get a game store to actually change buying practices just for you. But the most consideration that's going to get is offering to order the books for you; they're still not going to stock the system beyond maybe 1 or 2 more copies. It's just not popular enough and after you have your copy of the book they aren't going to sell many more of it.

Then again, if you're rich enough to affect the bottom line of a game store to that extent perhaps you buy copies enough for your entire gaming group?

Personally I'm with Pepsi Jedi and my deduction is your order your Palladium Books online like the rest of us when Kevin sends us our updates that the books you wanted are finally back from the printers.

In this case your deduction would be wrong...
I make trips about once every 4 months to a shop about 90 miles away(closest shop) from me.
I regularly drop any where from $300 to $3000 every visit (granted not all the money is mine I do purchase for others who do not have the time to take such a trip.) And the Shop in question does carry every Palladium book that is currently still in print. (but then it also does the same for every company in the hobby). And every patron of the store expects the shop to maintain a certain level of knowledge and gets quite incensed when the clerks show they are not even knowledgeable of basic information. (one poor clerk was roasted for not knowing about D&Dnext 2 days after it was confirmed as more than just rumor).

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Godogma wrote:Well, if you show up and start actually forking out the cash and helping pay their bills they might humor you as an uppity customer. But most people don't have a grand or more a month to blow on books or cards or whatnot else. We generally prefer to pay bills and eat.

You're among the fraction of 1% of Palladium Book's customers who might get a game store to actually change buying practices just for you. But the most consideration that's going to get is offering to order the books for you; they're still not going to stock the system beyond maybe 1 or 2 more copies. It's just not popular enough and after you have your copy of the book they aren't going to sell many more of it.

Then again, if you're rich enough to affect the bottom line of a game store to that extent perhaps you buy copies enough for your entire gaming group?

Personally I'm with Pepsi Jedi and my deduction is your order your Palladium Books online like the rest of us when Kevin sends us our updates that the books you wanted are finally back from the printers.

In this case your deduction would be wrong...
I make trips about once every 4 months to a shop about 90 miles away(closest shop) from me.
I regularly drop any where from $300 to $3000 every visit (granted not all the money is mine I do purchase for others who do not have the time to take such a trip.) And the Shop in question does carry every Palladium book that is currently still in print. (but then it also does the same for every company in the hobby). And every patron of the store expects the shop to maintain a certain level of knowledge and gets quite incensed when the clerks show they are not even knowledgeable of basic information. (one poor clerk was roasted for not knowing about D&Dnext 2 days after it was confirmed as more than just rumor).

So you're buying one to two hundred RPG books every four months? so 400 to 800 RPG books a year? To the tune of $12,000 a year? LOL ______IF_______ someone is dropping TWELVE GRAND A year in their store.. they might take some lip off of them. They would NOT take the lip just off some jerk off the street. and IF someone is dropping twelve thousand dollars a year in their store.. they'll take the lip, 4 times a year, to buy a car or something.

The average customer doesn't buy Four HUNDRED to Eight HUNDRED books a year or spend TWELVE THOUSAND dollars a year. I would wager that it'd take Dozens and dozens and dozens of RPG buiers to hit that amount of books.

I COLLECT RPG's. I've got thousands of dollars worth, but I've been collecting for 20 years. And I'm not so stupid as to go in and act like that in a game store.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Godogma wrote:Well, if you show up and start actually forking out the cash and helping pay their bills they might humor you as an uppity customer. But most people don't have a grand or more a month to blow on books or cards or whatnot else. We generally prefer to pay bills and eat.

You're among the fraction of 1% of Palladium Book's customers who might get a game store to actually change buying practices just for you. But the most consideration that's going to get is offering to order the books for you; they're still not going to stock the system beyond maybe 1 or 2 more copies. It's just not popular enough and after you have your copy of the book they aren't going to sell many more of it.

Then again, if you're rich enough to affect the bottom line of a game store to that extent perhaps you buy copies enough for your entire gaming group?

Personally I'm with Pepsi Jedi and my deduction is your order your Palladium Books online like the rest of us when Kevin sends us our updates that the books you wanted are finally back from the printers.

In this case your deduction would be wrong...
I make trips about once every 4 months to a shop about 90 miles away(closest shop) from me.
I regularly drop any where from $300 to $3000 every visit (granted not all the money is mine I do purchase for others who do not have the time to take such a trip.) And the Shop in question does carry every Palladium book that is currently still in print. (but then it also does the same for every company in the hobby). And every patron of the store expects the shop to maintain a certain level of knowledge and gets quite incensed when the clerks show they are not even knowledgeable of basic information. (one poor clerk was roasted for not knowing about D&Dnext 2 days after it was confirmed as more than just rumor).

So you're buying one to two hundred RPG books every four months? so 400 to 800 RPG books a year? To the tune of $12,000 a year? LOL ______IF_______ someone is dropping TWELVE GRAND A year in their store.. they might take some lip off of them. They would NOT take the lip just off some jerk off the street. and IF someone is dropping twelve thousand dollars a year in their store.. they'll take the lip, 4 times a year, to buy a car or something.

The average customer doesn't buy Four HUNDRED to Eight HUNDRED books a year or spend TWELVE THOUSAND dollars a year. I would wager that it'd take Dozens and dozens and dozens of RPG buiers to hit that amount of books.

I COLLECT RPG's. I've got thousands of dollars worth, but I've been collecting for 20 years. And I'm not so stupid as to go in and act like that in a game store.

No, not just books, minis (and any one who has looked into warhammer can tell you those can get very pricey), dice, rare board games (again these can get pricey), etc..

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Godogma wrote:Well, if you show up and start actually forking out the cash and helping pay their bills they might humor you as an uppity customer. But most people don't have a grand or more a month to blow on books or cards or whatnot else. We generally prefer to pay bills and eat.

You're among the fraction of 1% of Palladium Book's customers who might get a game store to actually change buying practices just for you. But the most consideration that's going to get is offering to order the books for you; they're still not going to stock the system beyond maybe 1 or 2 more copies. It's just not popular enough and after you have your copy of the book they aren't going to sell many more of it.

Then again, if you're rich enough to affect the bottom line of a game store to that extent perhaps you buy copies enough for your entire gaming group?

Personally I'm with Pepsi Jedi and my deduction is your order your Palladium Books online like the rest of us when Kevin sends us our updates that the books you wanted are finally back from the printers.

In this case your deduction would be wrong...
I make trips about once every 4 months to a shop about 90 miles away(closest shop) from me.
I regularly drop any where from $300 to $3000 every visit (granted not all the money is mine I do purchase for others who do not have the time to take such a trip.) And the Shop in question does carry every Palladium book that is currently still in print. (but then it also does the same for every company in the hobby). And every patron of the store expects the shop to maintain a certain level of knowledge and gets quite incensed when the clerks show they are not even knowledgeable of basic information. (one poor clerk was roasted for not knowing about D&Dnext 2 days after it was confirmed as more than just rumor).

So you're buying one to two hundred RPG books every four months? so 400 to 800 RPG books a year? To the tune of $12,000 a year? LOL ______IF_______ someone is dropping TWELVE GRAND A year in their store.. they might take some lip off of them. They would NOT take the lip just off some jerk off the street. and IF someone is dropping twelve thousand dollars a year in their store.. they'll take the lip, 4 times a year, to buy a car or something.

The average customer doesn't buy Four HUNDRED to Eight HUNDRED books a year or spend TWELVE THOUSAND dollars a year. I would wager that it'd take Dozens and dozens and dozens of RPG buiers to hit that amount of books.

I COLLECT RPG's. I've got thousands of dollars worth, but I've been collecting for 20 years. And I'm not so stupid as to go in and act like that in a game store.

No, not just books, minis (and any one who has looked into warhammer can tell you those can get very pricey), dice, rare board games (again these can get pricey), etc..

Ohio not have Amazon or Ebay? Back 15.. 20 years ago when you couldn't find RPGs anywhere BUT RPG stores and what not, I might be able to see the sort of thing you're describing. Now days, there's Amazon, if the store in town doesn't have something, people don't save up and make quarterly trips hours away. They buy it online and it shows up 2 days later in your mailbox. What store keeps 100s and 100s of books just sitting there for your quarterly run? If you're specially ordering them, why do so through the shop 90 miles away when you can just order them any day of the week and get them delivered straight to your house? And... very likely at huge discount?

I recently received about 6 Pathfinder books from Amazon over the course of the week. (( They carry Pathfinder in our normal book store here but they're 40% cheeper on Amazon))

Why would people wait 4 months to pay full price for a store not even in their own community and someone else be driving a car with 100s of RPGs and minis ect? I mean I understand 'Support the local mom and pop store" but if it's 90 miles away, and you only go 4 times a year, why would people choose to pay the 40%+ extra, and wait months for their items?