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Suppose an Enlightened Immortal Dragon God is pretty chummy with a family of Splurgoth Intelligences and he want these splurgies and their troops to work for him. But he wants to ensure that the splurgies are 101% loyal to him even though these splurgies are aberrant in nature.

So how would the Enlightened Immortal Dragon God enslave these splurgie Intelligences?

1) Chiangku Elixir of Power & Deceit
2) Enslave/Control Through Negative Chi

I wanna add the Diabolist Ward of Permanency plus the Charm/Domination/Mind Control spells but splurgie Intelligences are supernatural creatures.

Any further ideas?

Just so I understand your inquiry properly. Your suggesting that a dragon god, who is also an enlightened immortal, is going to attempt to rule over not one, but a whole group of splugorth alien intelligences?

If I understand this properly then allow me a little freedom of speech: the situation is absurd. The whole situation is absurd. First, a dragon god, who is also an enlightened immortal (a VERY heavy suspension of disbelief in its own right), wouldn't NEED absolute loyalty from an alien intelligence of ANY kind! Why? It's a dragon GOD who can NEVER DIE! Has all the powers of a dragon, a god AND an enlightened immortal! That kind of power scale borders on the obscene (kind of like that highly improbable level 3000 comet spell you and I have discussed already...). Secondly, the splugorth are their own brand of wily and clever. They can be all chummy and buddy buddy with your dragon god but hell if they'll EVER be 100% loyal to ANYONE other than themselves. They can hardly be loyal to each other. Also, the elixir of power & deceit needs to be ingested. Splugorth don't eat and don't need any of the powers that elixir provided. Control and enslave entity of negative chi does NOT work on beings with god-like powers. Greater demons, yams kings, alien intelligences... It does absolutely nothing to them. Also a permancy ward must be sown directly into the recipient, is incredibly painful and damaging. Splugorth, as naturally bio-regenerative, can't get permancy words sewn onto them as they would just keep rejecting it and be pretty pissed off to boot that someone would even TRY. All-in-all... I'd say its a lost cause.

Now, in my opinion, as a viable alternative - consider the nineth refinement - the power of ubiquity! Your immortal dragon god can create 81 equally powerful copies of himself! Who cares about splugorths when you have 81 other dragon gods to utilize?

Johnathan wrote:Just so I understand your inquiry properly. Your suggesting that a dragon god, who is also an enlightened immortal, is going to attempt to rule over not one, but a whole group of splugorth alien intelligences?

If I understand this properly then allow me a little freedom of speech: the situation is absurd. The whole situation is absurd. First, a dragon god, who is also an enlightened immortal (a VERY heavy suspension of disbelief in its own right), wouldn't NEED absolute loyalty from an alien intelligence of ANY kind! Why? It's a dragon GOD who can NEVER DIE! Has all the powers of a dragon, a god AND an enlightened immortal! That kind of power scale borders on the obscene (kind of like that highly improbable level 3000 comet spell you and I have discussed already...). Secondly, the splugorth are their own brand of wily and clever. They can be all chummy and buddy buddy with your dragon god but hell if they'll EVER be 100% loyal to ANYONE other than themselves. They can hardly be loyal to each other. Also, the elixir of power & deceit needs to be ingested. Splugorth don't eat and don't need any of the powers that elixir provided. Control and enslave entity of negative chi does NOT work on beings with god-like powers. Greater demons, yams kings, alien intelligences... It does absolutely nothing to them. Also a permancy ward must be sown directly into the recipient, is incredibly painful and damaging. Splugorth, as naturally bio-regenerative, can't get permancy words sewn onto them as they would just keep rejecting it and be pretty pissed off to boot that someone would even TRY. All-in-all... I'd say its a lost cause.

Now, in my opinion, as a viable alternative - consider the nineth refinement - the power of ubiquity! Your immortal dragon god can create 81 equally powerful copies of himself! Who cares about splugorths when you have 81 other dragon gods to utilize?

1) How do you know the Splurgoth does not eat? Even if they do not eat for sustenance, they can still consume liquids and such for other purposes, don't they? It is written in the splurgie description that they have mouths and teeth which are obviously used for the function of consuming stuff. What else are teeth used for?

2) Where is the page number which says control and enslave entity of negative chi does not work on beings with god-like powers?

3) Lastly, my enlightened immortal dragon god has 81 other clones of himself plus multiple selves of these 81 clones. But it doesn't hurt to have three splurgoth working underneath you. Thoth has a splurgoth working under him so i don't see why my dragon god can't have the same thing or more.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Johnathan wrote:Just so I understand your inquiry properly. Your suggesting that a dragon god, who is also an enlightened immortal, is going to attempt to rule over not one, but a whole group of splugorth alien intelligences?

If I understand this properly then allow me a little freedom of speech: the situation is absurd. The whole situation is absurd. First, a dragon god, who is also an enlightened immortal (a VERY heavy suspension of disbelief in its own right), wouldn't NEED absolute loyalty from an alien intelligence of ANY kind! Why? It's a dragon GOD who can NEVER DIE! Has all the powers of a dragon, a god AND an enlightened immortal! That kind of power scale borders on the obscene (kind of like that highly improbable level 3000 comet spell you and I have discussed already...). Secondly, the splugorth are their own brand of wily and clever. They can be all chummy and buddy buddy with your dragon god but hell if they'll EVER be 100% loyal to ANYONE other than themselves. They can hardly be loyal to each other. Also, the elixir of power & deceit needs to be ingested. Splugorth don't eat and don't need any of the powers that elixir provided. Control and enslave entity of negative chi does NOT work on beings with god-like powers. Greater demons, yams kings, alien intelligences... It does absolutely nothing to them. Also a permancy ward must be sown directly into the recipient, is incredibly painful and damaging. Splugorth, as naturally bio-regenerative, can't get permancy words sewn onto them as they would just keep rejecting it and be pretty pissed off to boot that someone would even TRY. All-in-all... I'd say its a lost cause.

Now, in my opinion, as a viable alternative - consider the nineth refinement - the power of ubiquity! Your immortal dragon god can create 81 equally powerful copies of himself! Who cares about splugorths when you have 81 other dragon gods to utilize?

1) How do you know the Splurgoth does not eat? Even if they do not eat for sustenance, they can still consume liquids and such for other purposes, don't they? It is written in the splurgie description that they have mouths and teeth which are obviously used for the function of consuming stuff. What else are teeth used for?

2) Where is the page number which says control and enslave entity of negative chi does not work on beings with god-like powers?

3) Lastly, my enlightened immortal dragon god has 81 other clones of himself plus multiple selves of these 81 clones. But it doesn't hurt to have three splurgoth working underneath you. Thoth has a splurgoth working under him so i don't see why my dragon god can't have the same thing or more.

*sigh* Okay, here we go...

1 - Splugorths are PPE vampires. The Splugorth High Lord, who are bound to their Splugorth masters through some sort of esoteric symbiosis, sustain them.
A - A Splugorth would consume something for really only these purposes - to feel it's bones crunch within the Splugorth's jaw(s), to feed upon the doubled PPE at death or to "hear" their victim scream in agony.
B - The Lords of Magic have mouths and teeth. Do THEY eat? Yes, but on ambient PPE. They don't use their mouths OR teeth to consume anything. Faeries have mouths. Do they eat? No, they don't. Unless it's something sweet... and that's only because they like the taste. Do Cosmo-Knights have mouths? Yes. With teeth? Usually. Do THEY eat? No... they don't. How bout Prometheans? Yeah... they have mouths too... sure as heck don't eat.
2 - Go to Page 51 of Rifter 3. Where it follows a little broader of a definition for the ability, specifically in regards to demonic beings BEYOND Infernals (Of which, obviously, mystic china is pretty vague on): "Allows the spell caster to control, and attempt to enslave, a demonic being. This applies to all negative Chi beings, including vampires, Infernals, demons and Gargoyles."
A - Now, I would like to point out, firstly, that nowhere in that description does it include Yama Kings, Greater Demons, Gods or Alien Intelligences.
B - Secondly, if the BEST examples they can provide are "vampires, Infernals, demons and Gargoyles" then the power scale of this chi spell is not so all-encompassing as to control an Alien Intelligence. Heck, Gargoyles are categorized as Sub-Demons...
C - I specifically underline "demonic being" for one reason and one reason only. Alien Intelligences are NOT demons. They are a whole other breed of megaversal creature that even give demons cause for concern and trepidation. They may, sometimes, PORTRAY themselves as Demon Lords, Gods, Creatures of Magic, etc. However, they are none of these things.
D - Can A Splugorth even be considered a creature of Negative Chi? I do not know the answer to that. I would say a Vampire Intelligence could be considered a creature of Negative Chi... but that's becuase they, themselves, are undead and ALL undead are creatures of negative chi. I can't say the same for others. If that were true, Thoth would be a creature of Negative Chi... I doubt he is.
3 - Please verify your facts. Thoth has a High Lord that works underneath him, and he also considers Splyncryth to be an ally/friend, as well as considers Mrrlyn (who is an AI avatar, that Thoth is also aware of) a friendly fellow. So, while he may work with or associate with a Splugorth Intelligence... he does NOT have one "working under him".

Now, at this point, you can either take your 82+ dragon god immortals and be happy with the fact that your character possesses more raw power than entire pantheons of gods... or you can continue to believe you are right and everyone else is wrong and DAMN what anyone else has to say. However, I feel I have presented my argument, with verifiable facts, well enough and am NOT going to get into another frivolous debate over something that is incredibly absurd, even for RIFTS (Like a level 3000 space magic that an alien intelligence doesn't have access to in the first place... Ringing bells?)

Johnathan wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Johnathan wrote:Just so I understand your inquiry properly. Your suggesting that a dragon god, who is also an enlightened immortal, is going to attempt to rule over not one, but a whole group of splugorth alien intelligences?

If I understand this properly then allow me a little freedom of speech: the situation is absurd. The whole situation is absurd. First, a dragon god, who is also an enlightened immortal (a VERY heavy suspension of disbelief in its own right), wouldn't NEED absolute loyalty from an alien intelligence of ANY kind! Why? It's a dragon GOD who can NEVER DIE! Has all the powers of a dragon, a god AND an enlightened immortal! That kind of power scale borders on the obscene (kind of like that highly improbable level 3000 comet spell you and I have discussed already...). Secondly, the splugorth are their own brand of wily and clever. They can be all chummy and buddy buddy with your dragon god but hell if they'll EVER be 100% loyal to ANYONE other than themselves. They can hardly be loyal to each other. Also, the elixir of power & deceit needs to be ingested. Splugorth don't eat and don't need any of the powers that elixir provided. Control and enslave entity of negative chi does NOT work on beings with god-like powers. Greater demons, yams kings, alien intelligences... It does absolutely nothing to them. Also a permancy ward must be sown directly into the recipient, is incredibly painful and damaging. Splugorth, as naturally bio-regenerative, can't get permancy words sewn onto them as they would just keep rejecting it and be pretty pissed off to boot that someone would even TRY. All-in-all... I'd say its a lost cause.

Now, in my opinion, as a viable alternative - consider the nineth refinement - the power of ubiquity! Your immortal dragon god can create 81 equally powerful copies of himself! Who cares about splugorths when you have 81 other dragon gods to utilize?

1) How do you know the Splurgoth does not eat? Even if they do not eat for sustenance, they can still consume liquids and such for other purposes, don't they? It is written in the splurgie description that they have mouths and teeth which are obviously used for the function of consuming stuff. What else are teeth used for?

2) Where is the page number which says control and enslave entity of negative chi does not work on beings with god-like powers?

3) Lastly, my enlightened immortal dragon god has 81 other clones of himself plus multiple selves of these 81 clones. But it doesn't hurt to have three splurgoth working underneath you. Thoth has a splurgoth working under him so i don't see why my dragon god can't have the same thing or more.

*sigh* Okay, here we go...

1 - Splugorths are PPE vampires. The Splugorth High Lord, who are bound to their Splugorth masters through some sort of esoteric symbiosis, sustain them.
A - A Splugorth would consume something for really only these purposes - to feel it's bones crunch within the Splugorth's jaw(s), to feed upon the doubled PPE at death or to "hear" their victim scream in agony.
B - The Lords of Magic have mouths and teeth. Do THEY eat? Yes, but on ambient PPE. They don't use their mouths OR teeth to consume anything. Faeries have mouths. Do they eat? No, they don't. Unless it's something sweet... and that's only because they like the taste. Do Cosmo-Knights have mouths? Yes. With teeth? Usually. Do THEY eat? No... they don't. How bout Prometheans? Yeah... they have mouths too... sure as heck don't eat.
2 - Go to Page 51 of Rifter 3. Where it follows a little broader of a definition for the ability, specifically in regards to demonic beings BEYOND Infernals (Of which, obviously, mystic china is pretty vague on): "Allows the spell caster to control, and attempt to enslave, a demonic being. This applies to all negative Chi beings, including vampires, Infernals, demons and Gargoyles."
A - Now, I would like to point out, firstly, that nowhere in that description does it include Yama Kings, Greater Demons, Gods or Alien Intelligences.
B - Secondly, if the BEST examples they can provide are "vampires, Infernals, demons and Gargoyles" then the power scale of this chi spell is not so all-encompassing as to control an Alien Intelligence. Heck, Gargoyles are categorized as Sub-Demons...
C - I specifically underline "demonic being" for one reason and one reason only. Alien Intelligences are NOT demons. They are a whole other breed of megaversal creature that even give demons cause for concern and trepidation. They may, sometimes, PORTRAY themselves as Demon Lords, Gods, Creatures of Magic, etc. However, they are none of these things.
D - Can A Splugorth even be considered a creature of Negative Chi? I do not know the answer to that. I would say a Vampire Intelligence could be considered a creature of Negative Chi... but that's becuase they, themselves, are undead and ALL undead are creatures of negative chi. I can't say the same for others. If that were true, Thoth would be a creature of Negative Chi... I doubt he is.
3 - Please verify your facts. Thoth has a High Lord that works underneath him, and he also considers Splyncryth to be an ally/friend, as well as considers Mrrlyn (who is an AI avatar, that Thoth is also aware of) a friendly fellow. So, while he may work with or associate with a Splugorth Intelligence... he does NOT have one "working under him".

Now, at this point, you can either take your 82+ dragon god immortals and be happy with the fact that your character possesses more raw power than entire pantheons of gods... or you can continue to believe you are right and everyone else is wrong and DAMN what anyone else has to say. However, I feel I have presented my argument, with verifiable facts, well enough and am NOT going to get into another frivolous debate over something that is incredibly absurd, even for RIFTS (Like a level 3000 space magic that an alien intelligence doesn't have access to in the first place... Ringing bells?)

1) As you acknowledge, the Splurgoth has mouth and teeth which is more than enough for them to swallow the Chiang-Ku Dragon Elixir of Control.

2) If you consider Splurgies or Vampire Intelligences or other Supernatural Evil Intelligences as beings of supernatural evil, then they would be beings of negative chil which allows them to be controlled by Level 9 spell Control/Enslave Creature of Pure Negative Chi.

If you consider Splurgies or Vampire Intelligences or other Supernatural Evil to be "normal" beings without any chi skills, then they can be infected by negative chi which allows them to be controlled by Level 13 spell Control Enslave Creature of Pure Negative Chi.

We are also talking about an Enlightened Immortal Dragon God using his Chi Skills to control such Alien Intelligences and not just a mere human Immortal using his Chi Skills to control such Alien Intelligences. I can understand why GMs won't allow normal human Immortals to use this Chi Skills to control Alien Intelligences because it would break the game.

However we are not talking about normal human Immortals here. We are talking about an Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God who obviously have millions of years of experience to hone and tweak his chi skills in such a way that he can enslave a few Splurgoth and other Alien Intelligences IF he want to.

In this case, he has deemed a family of Splurgoth worthy candidates of learning mystical secrets from him and thus this Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God would do anything necessary to bind the Splurgoth's total blind loyalty and allegiance to him.

Even a God needs his Generals and Captains to lead the His Divisions of Troops and the Splurgoth are one of the best man managers out there. Are there any canon material which states that a God can't use Chi skills to bind the Splurgoth? We are talking about infection of over one hundred thousand or even over one million points of negative chi here.

3) You may be right about Thoth not having a Splurgoth Intelligence working for him but he is quite close to the Splurgoth and they have an excellent working relationship.

But my Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God stands high above Thoth himself. The Dragon God demands and gets the Splurgoth's total allegiance because he has valuable stuff to give them. In return, the Splurgoth is treated with kid gloves and showered with all sorts of goodies.

The Elixir and Negative Chi are just insurance against the Splurgoth harboring seeds of betrayal. Not that the Dragon God is worried about betrayal by the Splurgoth when he has other more reliable "Generals" and "Captains" to rely on.

Ever watch Bleach? The Soul Society would be the society which my Dragon God's empire is modeled on. At best, the Splurgoth's power level is only considered to be among the lower-level captains.

4) Since you have the intention of derailing this thread, I have to kindly ask you to leave unless you have the intention of contributing valid ideas on how a Great God can insure(read: enslave) the loyalty of one of his Generals.

5) Your facts are not verifiable enough. And I never did say an AI has 3000 level space magick. I said an Old One has 3000 level space magick. Get your facts right.

In returning to the main essence of this thread, I have been thinking..

Teaching the Splurgoth Heartless Immortality is another method of enslaving the Splurgoth's loyalty. Since the Splurgoth is mortal, they would be extremely interested in learning how to Prolong their lifespans and teaching the Splurgoth the Heartless Immortality where the Dragon God can keep possession of the Splurgoth's Heart is a good idea.

Splugorth aren't creatures of negative chi, just because they're supernatural creatures of evil they aren't one and the same.

Not everything is subject to being affected by the Elixar of Control, certainly an alien intelligence wouldn't be.

The Heartless Immortal is based around magics intended to affect humans, an AI is so far removed from human the magic wouldn't even begin to apply to them. Nor would they go risking something with a high risk of killing them.

The last thing you're going to see is a Splugorth treating anyone as above them, including your implausible Immortal Dragon God.

Nightmask wrote:Splugorth aren't creatures of negative chi, just because they're supernatural creatures of evil they aren't one and the same.

Not everything is subject to being affected by the Elixar of Control, certainly an alien intelligence wouldn't be.

The Heartless Immortal is based around magics intended to affect humans, an AI is so far removed from human the magic wouldn't even begin to apply to them. Nor would they go risking something with a high risk of killing them.

The last thing you're going to see is a Splugorth treating anyone as above them, including your implausible Immortal Dragon God.

I know that Splurgies aren't creatures of negative chi. This is why I say to infect them with negative chi first before using the spell. You should study the chi rules more carefully.

Only Dragons are invulnerable to Elixers of Control. No canon in whatever books which say Alien Intelligences are not.

Mystic China Pg 161
By the way, it is possible for "Evil" characters to acquire the Art of Discorporation. After all, anyone, even an Infernal, can
become enlightened and "at one" with the Tao.

All of the Immortality magick can be studied by any being in the megaverse, including Gods, Dragons, Intelligences, Demons, Devils, etc. So if the Splurgies want to learn how to be "at one" with the Tao, why not?

Are there any rules which say the Immortality Magick are only meant for humans?

The Splurgoth will learn anything which can give them an edge over others. With that said, even though the Splurgoth has a long life-span, they are still mortal and can die. If the Splurgoth are offered a chance to ascend into Godhood, I am pretty sure they will do anything and everything in their power for Godhood.

Especially when my Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God offers them the Splurgoth a chance to be one of his Great Generals and shower the Splurgoth with plenty of goodies.

Lastly, the Splurgoth has a MDC of 120000 max. If an Immortal Dragon God can inflict them with a million negative Chi which is then times more than the amount of MDC which they have, then it is more than possible for said Dragon God to enslave the Splurgoth Intelligence.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:Splugorth aren't creatures of negative chi, just because they're supernatural creatures of evil they aren't one and the same.

Not everything is subject to being affected by the Elixar of Control, certainly an alien intelligence wouldn't be.

The Heartless Immortal is based around magics intended to affect humans, an AI is so far removed from human the magic wouldn't even begin to apply to them. Nor would they go risking something with a high risk of killing them.

The last thing you're going to see is a Splugorth treating anyone as above them, including your implausible Immortal Dragon God.

I know that Splurgies aren't creatures of negative chi. This is why I say to infect them with negative chi first before using the spell. You should study the chi rules more carefully.

I've read the rules, of which you may not be able to inflect them with negative chi for one. For another even if you could there's nothing to support the idea that they'd be vulnerable to special abilities or spells that control negative chi beings or those infected with negative chi. The rules weren't crafted with the entire megaverse in mind and can't be considered to apply to things they weren't even written with in mind.

crystaleye1950 wrote:Only Dragons are invulnerable to Elixers of Control. No canon in whatever books which say Alien Intelligences are not.

Nothing that says the are either, the Elixir of Control like many things is hardly something one can insist affects everything throughout the megaverse without question no matter how powerful or immune to effects the target might be.

crystaleye1950 wrote:Mystic China Pg 161
By the way, it is possible for "Evil" characters to acquire the Art of Discorporation. After all, anyone, even an Infernal, can
become enlightened and "at one" with the Tao.

All of the Immortality magick can be studied by any being in the megaverse, including Gods, Dragons, Intelligences, Demons, Devils, etc. So if the Splurgies want to learn how to be "at one" with the Tao, why not?

Are there any rules which say the Immortality Magick are only meant for humans?

Where do you think a magick like the Heartless Immortal based around human physiology would impact an alien intelligence? Or the Ginseng Immortal that requires a living Ginseng plant to routinely feed upon?

In regards to Discorporate, while anyone can learn it while studying the martial arts that allow for it do finish the material on it where it notes evil characters will quickly refuse to use it seeing it as a dangerous trap. Their selfishness and 'only I matter' thinking brings them to reject something that calls upon them to give up their individuality and 'merge with the Tao'.

crystaleye1950 wrote:The Splurgoth will learn anything which can give them an edge over others. With that said, even though the Splurgoth has a long life-span, they are still mortal and can die. If the Splurgoth are offered a chance to ascend into Godhood, I am pretty sure they will do anything and everything in their power for Godhood.

Especially when my Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God offers them the Splurgoth a chance to be one of his Great Generals and shower the Splurgoth with plenty of goodies.

Lastly, the Splurgoth has a MDC of 120000 max. If an Immortal Dragon God can inflict them with a million negative Chi which is then times more than the amount of MDC which they have, then it is more than possible for said Dragon God to enslave the Splurgoth Intelligence.

You really don't understand the mindset of alien intelligences like the Splugorth to so cavalierly declare how they'd just jump to serve your implausible dragon god immortal. You also talk about an implausible amount of negative chi, as if some AI would just sit around letting someone hammer him with implausible amounts of negative chi just to end up their slave, of which again nothing to support the idea one could enslave an AI with negative chi exists to justify that approach.

Nightmask wrote:
I've read the rules, of which you may not be able to inflect them with negative chi for one. For another even if you could there's nothing to support the idea that they'd be vulnerable to special abilities or spells that control negative chi beings or those infected with negative chi. The rules weren't crafted with the entire megaverse in mind and can't be considered to apply to things they weren't even written with in mind.

As far as I am concerned, the rules were crafted with the entire megaverse in mind and the rules clearly allow for an Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God to enslave and control a few Splurgoth if he wants to.

Only Dragons are invulnerable to Elixers of Control. No canon in whatever books which say Alien Intelligences are not.

Nothing that says the are either, the Elixir of Control like many things is hardly something one can insist affects everything throughout the megaverse without question no matter how powerful or immune to effects the target might be.

Only dragons are immune to Elixir of Control. Go read up on Chiangku Dragons again.

crystaleye1950 wrote:Mystic China Pg 161
By the way, it is possible for "Evil" characters to acquire the Art of Discorporation. After all, anyone, even an Infernal, can
become enlightened and "at one" with the Tao.

All of the Immortality magick can be studied by any being in the megaverse, including Gods, Dragons, Intelligences, Demons, Devils, etc. So if the Splurgies want to learn how to be "at one" with the Tao, why not?

Are there any rules which say the Immortality Magick are only meant for humans?

Where do you think a magick like the Heartless Immortal based around human physiology would impact an alien intelligence? Or the Ginseng Immortal that requires a living Ginseng plant to routinely feed upon?

In regards to Discorporate, while anyone can learn it while studying the martial arts that allow for it do finish the material on it where it notes evil characters will quickly refuse to use it seeing it as a dangerous trap. Their selfishness and 'only I matter' thinking brings them to reject something that calls upon them to give up their individuality and 'merge with the Tao'.

So it clearly states that anyone can learn to be "at one" with the Tao. So a good splurgoth can learn to be "at one" with the Tao if he wants to.

crystaleye1950 wrote:The Splurgoth will learn anything which can give them an edge over others. With that said, even though the Splurgoth has a long life-span, they are still mortal and can die. If the Splurgoth are offered a chance to ascend into Godhood, I am pretty sure they will do anything and everything in their power for Godhood.

Especially when my Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God offers them the Splurgoth a chance to be one of his Great Generals and shower the Splurgoth with plenty of goodies.

Lastly, the Splurgoth has a MDC of 120000 max. If an Immortal Dragon God can inflict them with a million negative Chi which is then times more than the amount of MDC which they have, then it is more than possible for said Dragon God to enslave the Splurgoth Intelligence.

You really don't understand the mindset of alien intelligences like the Splugorth to so cavalierly declare how they'd just jump to serve your implausible dragon god immortal. You also talk about an implausible amount of negative chi, as if some AI would just sit around letting someone hammer him with implausible amounts of negative chi just to end up their slave, of which again nothing to support the idea one could enslave an AI with negative chi exists to justify that approach.

As I said, this is a game between alien intelligences and immortal dragon gods. Mere human mortals undoubtedly lack the vision or power to visualize such a complex relationship. I am the GM setting the rules for my own campaign and I ain't forcing you to participate in this campaign if you do not want to. You are more than welcome to leave this thread anytime you want.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:I've read the rules, of which you may not be able to inflect them with negative chi for one. For another even if you could there's nothing to support the idea that they'd be vulnerable to special abilities or spells that control negative chi beings or those infected with negative chi. The rules weren't crafted with the entire megaverse in mind and can't be considered to apply to things they weren't even written with in mind.

As far as I am concerned, the rules were crafted with the entire megaverse in mind and the rules clearly allow for an Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God to enslave and control a few Splurgoth if he wants to.

Well you're free to run your game that way, but the rules certainly weren't made with the megaverse in mind and certainly not with the idea of someone going around enslaving AI like they were goblins or orcs instead of god-level entities.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:Only Dragons are invulnerable to Elixers of Control. No canon in whatever books which say Alien Intelligences are not.

Nothing that says the are either, the Elixir of Control like many things is hardly something one can insist affects everything throughout the megaverse without question no matter how powerful or immune to effects the target might be.

Only dragons are immune to Elixir of Control. Go read up on Chiangku Dragons again.

You're free to hold that opinion, even though the idea of it being able to enslave an AI is way outside the scope of believability.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:Mystic China Pg 161
By the way, it is possible for "Evil" characters to acquire the Art of Discorporation. After all, anyone, even an Infernal, can
become enlightened and "at one" with the Tao.

All of the Immortality magick can be studied by any being in the megaverse, including Gods, Dragons, Intelligences, Demons, Devils, etc. So if the Splurgies want to learn how to be "at one" with the Tao, why not?

Are there any rules which say the Immortality Magick are only meant for humans?

Where do you think a magick like the Heartless Immortal based around human physiology would impact an alien intelligence? Or the Ginseng Immortal that requires a living Ginseng plant to routinely feed upon?

In regards to Discorporate, while anyone can learn it while studying the martial arts that allow for it do finish the material on it where it notes evil characters will quickly refuse to use it seeing it as a dangerous trap. Their selfishness and 'only I matter' thinking brings them to reject something that calls upon them to give up their individuality and 'merge with the Tao'.

So it clearly states that anyone can learn to be "at one" with the Tao. So a good splurgoth can learn to be "at one" with the Tao if he wants to.

Right after it somehow manages a humanoid body it can actually master the technique, and it does the impossible of being good in the first place. Oh and actually finds someone to learn the technique from.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:You really don't understand the mindset of alien intelligences like the Splugorth to so cavalierly declare how they'd just jump to serve your implausible dragon god immortal. You also talk about an implausible amount of negative chi, as if some AI would just sit around letting someone hammer him with implausible amounts of negative chi just to end up their slave, of which again nothing to support the idea one could enslave an AI with negative chi exists to justify that approach.

As I said, this is a game between alien intelligences and immortal dragon gods. I am the GM setting the rules for my own campaign and I ain't forcing you to participate in this campaign if you do not want to. You are more than welcome to leave this thread anytime you want.

Well now if all you intended with the thread was to go 'well it's my game and it just happens' then no point in you making the thread and asking how one could go about it now is there? Since you aren't interested in hearing anything out of people regarding the flaws in your premise and how unworkable it is actually going by the books.

Ever watch Bleach? The Soul Society would be the society which my Dragon God's empire is modeled on. At best, the Splurgoth's power level is only considered to be among the lower-level captains.

4) Since you have the intention of derailing this thread, I have to kindly ask you to leave unless you have the intention of contributing valid ideas on how a Great God can insure(read: enslave) the loyalty of one of his Generals.

5) Your facts are not verifiable enough.

Okay, I present viable alternatives to an already ridiculous scenario involving an already ridiculous set of circumstances and creatures, and am met with ridicule and "it's not good enough." Fine.

I'm actually an avid reader of the Bleach manga. So, I'll see your unkillable dragon god, his 81 copies, their doppelgängers/clones/whatever's, who've successfully subjugated a race of alien intelligences through a series of events and/or circumstances that are equally improbable, in their dystopian society where an alien intelligence is considered "minor"...

... And I will raise you Karl Prosek, Erin Tarn, Alistiar Dunscon, Brethran D'zir and Splyncryth sitting down at a poker table with cigars and brandy for an amicable night of card games and carefree frivolity.

I figure if we're going to REALLY break the rules... Why not just go all out?

Have a nice day. I'm done.

The naysayers in this thread forgot that the Enlightened Immortal Elder Dimensional Dragon God is a Colossal Realm God with Colossal Level Deific Powers.

A "normal" God using his Deific Powers alone has already the tools to put a "normal" Alien Intelligence w/o any Deific Powers in his place.

An Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God has both his Deific Powers and his mega Chi Skills to insure the total blind obedience and loyalty of the Splurgoth without any hiccups whatsoever.

Besides the Splurgoth are unlike the Vampire Intelligence. Vampire Intelligence are pure leeches period and I will understand if the whole Megaverse wants them gone. But the Splurgoth is on a higher level of evolution than the Vampires.

A Godly Emperor will always need some people to do the dirty work, to be the sinners and all that. I have always maintained that one needs Evil in order to defeat another evil. Odin and Zeus are anarchists who are not above working with the Splurgoth to eliminate a bigger evil like the Demons/Devils/Vampires if it need be.

Compared to the Demons/Devils/Vampires, Splurgoth are like priests and nuns. As you can see Splurgoth can be of any alignments including good alignments if need be. But Vampiric Intelligences are automatically Diabolic Evil. My family of grandpa, father and son splurgoth has principled, aberrant and anarchist alignments respectively so are they gonna betray my Dragon God? Quite Impossible given the insurances.

The Average Splugorth
Alignments: Any, but usually anarchist or evil.

Vampire Intelligence
Alignment: Diabolic Evil.

crystaleye1950 wrote:Suppose an Enlightened Immortal Dragon God is pretty chummy with a family of Splurgoth Intelligences and he want these splugies and their troops to work for him. But he wants to ensure that the splugies are 101% loyal to him even though these splugies are aberrant in nature.

So how would the Enlightened Immortal Dragon God enslave these splugy Intelligences?

1) Chiang-Ku Elixir of Power & Deceit
2) Enslave/Control Through Negative Chi

I wanna add the Diabolist Ward of Permanency plus the Charm/Domination/Mind Control spells but splugie Intelligences are supernatural creatures.

Any further ideas?

Use them as Rune weapon components. Then have it's splinter selves use them weapons.


However, the concepts in the question are questionable.
*Can a Immortal being become a E.I.?
*Can Creatures of Magic become E.I.?
*Can Super Nat beings become E.I.?


There were several comments I wanted to say but they involved my opinion about the ideas presented. So I left them out as a matter of self preservation.

Johnathan wrote:

Ever watch Bleach? The Soul Society would be the society which my Dragon God's empire is modeled on. At best, the Splurgoth's power level is only considered to be among the lower-level captains.

4) Since you have the intention of derailing this thread, I have to kindly ask you to leave unless you have the intention of contributing valid ideas on how a Great God can insure(read: enslave) the loyalty of one of his Generals.

5) Your facts are not verifiable enough.

Okay, I present viable alternatives to an already ridiculous scenario involving an already ridiculous set of circumstances and creatures, and am met with ridicule and "it's not good enough." Fine.

I'm actually an avid reader of the Bleach manga. So, I'll see your unkillable dragon god, his 81 copies, their doppelgängers/clones/whatever's, who've successfully subjugated a race of alien intelligences through a series of events and/or circumstances that are equally improbable, in their dystopian society where an alien intelligence is considered "minor"...

... And I will raise you Karl Prosek, Erin Tarn, Alistiar Dunscon, Brethran D'zir and Splyncryth sitting down at a poker table with cigars and brandy for an amicable night of card games and carefree frivolity.

I figure if we're going to REALLY break the rules... Why not just go all out?

Have a nice day. I'm done.

Yes sir, as you said it, I am going all out to break the rules. But I am not creating an entirely unbelievable scenario/universe as you described things to be.

In real life, you will always need to work with some evil people to win the war. With that said, I would work with Aberrant/Diabolic people maybe even Miscreant peeps anytime to put down the Diabolic nutcases of the Universe.

Even my Enlightened Immortal Elder Dimensional Dragon God will have lots of trouble if he decides to be a straight out Principled Moralist and go out killing every single "evil" intelligence out there.

Some "evil" can be tolerated but other "evil" can not be tolerated.

The Splurgoth are only a small fraction of my Generals whom I have revealed so far. If I revealed who my other Generals are, all of you would raise a hue and cry but rest assured, I would never stoop so low as to use a Vampire Intelligence or Demon Lord or Devil Lord as my Generals.

I may have a fine line but I still have a line nevertheless.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:Suppose an Enlightened Immortal Dragon God is pretty chummy with a family of Splurgoth Intelligences and he want these splugies and their troops to work for him. But he wants to ensure that the splugies are 101% loyal to him even though these splugies are aberrant in nature.

So how would the Enlightened Immortal Dragon God enslave these splugy Intelligences?

1) Chiang-Ku Elixir of Power & Deceit
2) Enslave/Control Through Negative Chi

I wanna add the Diabolist Ward of Permanency plus the Charm/Domination/Mind Control spells but splugie Intelligences are supernatural creatures.

Any further ideas?

Use them as Rune weapon components. Then have it's splinter selves use them weapons.



However, the concepts in the question are questionable.
*Can a Immortal being become a E.I.?
*Can Creatures of Magic become E.I.?
*Can Super Nat beings become E.I.?


There were several comments I wanted to say but they involved my opinion about the ideas presented. So I left them out as a matter of self preservation.

I say yes to all of them. I believe all beings in the Megaverse can become Enlightened Immortals.

As Mystic China put it, anyone can learn to be enlightened and be at one with the Tao.

As a matter of fact, one of the Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God's objectives is to create an Army and a Race of Enlightened Immortals.

You can give me your opinions about the ideas presented in a PM if you like.

crystaleye1950 wrote:The naysayers in this thread forgot that the Enlightened Immortal Elder Dimensional Dragon God is a Colossal Realm God with Colossal Level Deific Powers.

A "normal" God using his Deific Powers alone has already the tools to put a "normal" Alien Intelligence w/o any Deific Powers in his place.

An Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God has both his Deific Powers and his mega Chi Skills to insure the total blind obedience and loyalty of the Splurgoth without any hiccups whatsoever.

Besides the Splurgoth are unlike the Vampire Intelligence. Vampire Intelligence are pure leeches period and I will understand if the whole Megaverse wants them gone. But the Splurgoth is on a higher level of evolution than the Vampires.

A Godly Emperor will always need some people to do the dirty work, to be the sinners and all that. I have always maintained that one needs Evil in order to defeat another evil. Odin and Zeus are anarchists who are not above working with the Splurgoth to eliminate a bigger evil like the Demons/Devils/Vampires if it need be.

Compared to the Demons/Devils/Vampires, Splurgoth are like priests and nuns. As you can see Splurgoth can be of any alignments including good alignments if need be. But Vampiric Intelligences are automatically Diabolic Evil. My family of grandpa, father and son splurgoth has principled, aberrant and anarchist alignments respectively so are they gonna betray my Dragon God? Quite Impossible given the insurances.

The Average Splugorth
Alignments: Any, but usually anarchist or evil.

Vampire Intelligence
Alignment: Diabolic Evil.

As per Dragons & Gods, page 73, all alien intelligences have the full range of deific powers at the normal cost. Also, there's no such thing as "Colossal Level Deific Powers."

I do have a question about the Elixer for you. Why would a Splugorth want to drink one? They already have powers, or can use their own magic, that can do what the Elixer can do, or better, all on their own.

The Beast wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:The naysayers in this thread forgot that the Enlightened Immortal Elder Dimensional Dragon God is a Colossal Realm God with Colossal Level Deific Powers.

A "normal" God using his Deific Powers alone has already the tools to put a "normal" Alien Intelligence w/o any Deific Powers in his place.

An Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God has both his Deific Powers and his mega Chi Skills to insure the total blind obedience and loyalty of the Splurgoth without any hiccups whatsoever.

Besides the Splurgoth are unlike the Vampire Intelligence. Vampire Intelligence are pure leeches period and I will understand if the whole Megaverse wants them gone. But the Splurgoth is on a higher level of evolution than the Vampires.

A Godly Emperor will always need some people to do the dirty work, to be the sinners and all that. I have always maintained that one needs Evil in order to defeat another evil. Odin and Zeus are anarchists who are not above working with the Splurgoth to eliminate a bigger evil like the Demons/Devils/Vampires if it need be.

Compared to the Demons/Devils/Vampires, Splurgoth are like priests and nuns. As you can see Splurgoth can be of any alignments including good alignments if need be. But Vampiric Intelligences are automatically Diabolic Evil. My family of grandpa, father and son splurgoth has principled, aberrant and anarchist alignments respectively so are they gonna betray my Dragon God? Quite Impossible given the insurances.

The Average Splugorth
Alignments: Any, but usually anarchist or evil.

Vampire Intelligence
Alignment: Diabolic Evil.

As per Dragons & Gods, page 73, all alien intelligences have the full range of deific powers at the normal cost. Also, there's no such thing as "Colossal Level Deific Powers."

I do have a question about the Elixer for you. Why would a Splugorth want to drink one? They already have powers, or can use their own magic, that can do what the Elixer can do, or better, all on their own.

It said most alien intelligences have deific powers. Nothing is written in the Splurgoth descriptions which states that they have deific powers.

Also since Dragons and Gods are written for the Palladium Fantasy setting, it is more than apparent that only Alien Intelligences which are written up in PF books have deific powers.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

The Beast wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:The naysayers in this thread forgot that the Enlightened Immortal Elder Dimensional Dragon God is a Colossal Realm God with Colossal Level Deific Powers.

A "normal" God using his Deific Powers alone has already the tools to put a "normal" Alien Intelligence w/o any Deific Powers in his place.

An Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God has both his Deific Powers and his mega Chi Skills to insure the total blind obedience and loyalty of the Splurgoth without any hiccups whatsoever.

Besides the Splurgoth are unlike the Vampire Intelligence. Vampire Intelligence are pure leeches period and I will understand if the whole Megaverse wants them gone. But the Splurgoth is on a higher level of evolution than the Vampires.

A Godly Emperor will always need some people to do the dirty work, to be the sinners and all that. I have always maintained that one needs Evil in order to defeat another evil. Odin and Zeus are anarchists who are not above working with the Splurgoth to eliminate a bigger evil like the Demons/Devils/Vampires if it need be.

Compared to the Demons/Devils/Vampires, Splurgoth are like priests and nuns. As you can see Splurgoth can be of any alignments including good alignments if need be. But Vampiric Intelligences are automatically Diabolic Evil. My family of grandpa, father and son splurgoth has principled, aberrant and anarchist alignments respectively so are they gonna betray my Dragon God? Quite Impossible given the insurances.

The Average Splugorth
Alignments: Any, but usually anarchist or evil.

Vampire Intelligence
Alignment: Diabolic Evil.

As per Dragons & Gods, page 73, all alien intelligences have the full range of deific powers at the normal cost. Also, there's no such thing as "Colossal Level Deific Powers."

I do have a question about the Elixer for you. Why would a Splugorth want to drink one? They already have powers, or can use their own magic, that can do what the Elixer can do, or better, all on their own.

It said most alien intelligences have deific powers. Nothing is written in the Splurgoth descriptions which states that they have deific powers.

Also since Dragons and Gods are written for the Palladium Fantasy setting, it is more than apparent that only Alien Intelligences which are written up in PF books have deific powers.

That seems to contradict your earlier statement that you consider the books to be written to have megaversal coverage, or do you only consider things to be megaversal when they benefit your implausible dragon god and book specific when it hinders the opposition's ability to resist it?

crystaleye1950 wrote:

The Beast wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:The naysayers in this thread forgot that the Enlightened Immortal Elder Dimensional Dragon God is a Colossal Realm God with Colossal Level Deific Powers.

A "normal" God using his Deific Powers alone has already the tools to put a "normal" Alien Intelligence w/o any Deific Powers in his place.

An Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God has both his Deific Powers and his mega Chi Skills to insure the total blind obedience and loyalty of the Splurgoth without any hiccups whatsoever.

Besides the Splurgoth are unlike the Vampire Intelligence. Vampire Intelligence are pure leeches period and I will understand if the whole Megaverse wants them gone. But the Splurgoth is on a higher level of evolution than the Vampires.

A Godly Emperor will always need some people to do the dirty work, to be the sinners and all that. I have always maintained that one needs Evil in order to defeat another evil. Odin and Zeus are anarchists who are not above working with the Splurgoth to eliminate a bigger evil like the Demons/Devils/Vampires if it need be.

Compared to the Demons/Devils/Vampires, Splurgoth are like priests and nuns. As you can see Splurgoth can be of any alignments including good alignments if need be. But Vampiric Intelligences are automatically Diabolic Evil. My family of grandpa, father and son splurgoth has principled, aberrant and anarchist alignments respectively so are they gonna betray my Dragon God? Quite Impossible given the insurances.

The Average Splugorth
Alignments: Any, but usually anarchist or evil.

Vampire Intelligence
Alignment: Diabolic Evil.

As per Dragons & Gods, page 73, all alien intelligences have the full range of deific powers at the normal cost. Also, there's no such thing as "Colossal Level Deific Powers."

I do have a question about the Elixer for you. Why would a Splugorth want to drink one? They already have powers, or can use their own magic, that can do what the Elixer can do, or better, all on their own.

It said most alien intelligences have deific powers. Nothing is written in the Splurgoth descriptions which states that they have deific powers.

Also since Dragons and Gods are written for the Palladium Fantasy setting, it is more than apparent that only Alien Intelligences which are written up in PF books have deific powers.

That's only because D&G was written and released long after WB2.

The Beast wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

The Beast wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:The naysayers in this thread forgot that the Enlightened Immortal Elder Dimensional Dragon God is a Colossal Realm God with Colossal Level Deific Powers.

A "normal" God using his Deific Powers alone has already the tools to put a "normal" Alien Intelligence w/o any Deific Powers in his place.

An Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God has both his Deific Powers and his mega Chi Skills to insure the total blind obedience and loyalty of the Splurgoth without any hiccups whatsoever.

Besides the Splurgoth are unlike the Vampire Intelligence. Vampire Intelligence are pure leeches period and I will understand if the whole Megaverse wants them gone. But the Splurgoth is on a higher level of evolution than the Vampires.

A Godly Emperor will always need some people to do the dirty work, to be the sinners and all that. I have always maintained that one needs Evil in order to defeat another evil. Odin and Zeus are anarchists who are not above working with the Splurgoth to eliminate a bigger evil like the Demons/Devils/Vampires if it need be.

Compared to the Demons/Devils/Vampires, Splurgoth are like priests and nuns. As you can see Splurgoth can be of any alignments including good alignments if need be. But Vampiric Intelligences are automatically Diabolic Evil. My family of grandpa, father and son splurgoth has principled, aberrant and anarchist alignments respectively so are they gonna betray my Dragon God? Quite Impossible given the insurances.

The Average Splugorth
Alignments: Any, but usually anarchist or evil.

Vampire Intelligence
Alignment: Diabolic Evil.

As per Dragons & Gods, page 73, all alien intelligences have the full range of deific powers at the normal cost. Also, there's no such thing as "Colossal Level Deific Powers."

I do have a question about the Elixer for you. Why would a Splugorth want to drink one? They already have powers, or can use their own magic, that can do what the Elixer can do, or better, all on their own.

It said most alien intelligences have deific powers. Nothing is written in the Splurgoth descriptions which states that they have deific powers.

Also since Dragons and Gods are written for the Palladium Fantasy setting, it is more than apparent that only Alien Intelligences which are written up in PF books have deific powers.

That's only because D&G was written and released long after WB2.

Only Alien Intelligences, which have deific powers listed under their descriptions, are considered to have deific powers,

Also, only Alien Intelligences, which are stated in the books as being a God or Demon, will be considered to be Gods or Demons/Devils with deific powers. For eg, Cronus is an Alien Intelligence but he is also described in the books as being a God.

The writers clearly do not mean for all the Alien Intelligences to have deific powers. Only those AI who are considered to be a God or Demon/Devil.

Splurgoth is a "normal" Alien Intelligence compared to Cronus so he would be considered to be a "normal" AI with NO deific powers at all.

Have to disagree about the Slugorth and a lack of Deific powers. The word 'Deific' comes from being deified, or treated as a Deity by your worshipers. if enough people consider you a god, then you get the powers of one. As its noted in I believe WB2 that the Splugorth have witches, it's not a stretch to believe that they have worshipers too, hence are open to Deific powers

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

The Beast wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:The naysayers in this thread forgot that the Enlightened Immortal Elder Dimensional Dragon God is a Colossal Realm God with Colossal Level Deific Powers.

A "normal" God using his Deific Powers alone has already the tools to put a "normal" Alien Intelligence w/o any Deific Powers in his place.

An Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God has both his Deific Powers and his mega Chi Skills to insure the total blind obedience and loyalty of the Splurgoth without any hiccups whatsoever.

Besides the Splurgoth are unlike the Vampire Intelligence. Vampire Intelligence are pure leeches period and I will understand if the whole Megaverse wants them gone. But the Splurgoth is on a higher level of evolution than the Vampires.

A Godly Emperor will always need some people to do the dirty work, to be the sinners and all that. I have always maintained that one needs Evil in order to defeat another evil. Odin and Zeus are anarchists who are not above working with the Splurgoth to eliminate a bigger evil like the Demons/Devils/Vampires if it need be.

Compared to the Demons/Devils/Vampires, Splurgoth are like priests and nuns. As you can see Splurgoth can be of any alignments including good alignments if need be. But Vampiric Intelligences are automatically Diabolic Evil. My family of grandpa, father and son splurgoth has principled, aberrant and anarchist alignments respectively so are they gonna betray my Dragon God? Quite Impossible given the insurances.

The Average Splugorth
Alignments: Any, but usually anarchist or evil.

Vampire Intelligence
Alignment: Diabolic Evil.

As per Dragons & Gods, page 73, all alien intelligences have the full range of deific powers at the normal cost. Also, there's no such thing as "Colossal Level Deific Powers."

I do have a question about the Elixer for you. Why would a Splugorth want to drink one? They already have powers, or can use their own magic, that can do what the Elixer can do, or better, all on their own.

It said most alien intelligences have deific powers. Nothing is written in the Splurgoth descriptions which states that they have deific powers.

Also since Dragons and Gods are written for the Palladium Fantasy setting, it is more than apparent that only Alien Intelligences which are written up in PF books have deific powers.

That seems to contradict your earlier statement that you consider the books to be written to have megaversal coverage, or do you only consider things to be megaversal when they benefit your implausible dragon god and book specific when it hinders the opposition's ability to resist it?

I can accept Godly or Demonic Alien Intelligences having Deific Powers but I refuse to accept "normal" Alien Intelligences having such powers.

Until you can point out any particular wording in the Splurgoth descriptions which show the Splurgoth as having deific powers, just like how Dragons & Gods rewrote the descriptions of demons and devils as having deific powers, then I will assume that the Splurgoth has no deific powers at all.

Deific Powers are meant for those Gods or Demons/Devils or Immortal Alien Intelligences who have had millions of years of existence. Dragons & Gods Page 74 :- Note: Intelligences are immortal and most are millions of years old

However, the life-span of the Splurgoth is only a few hundred thousand years at best. This is another reason why I say the Splurgoth will be very keen on obtaining Godhood and another reason why they will fall in line to be a follower of my Dragon God.

Even if an Alien Intelligence has Deific powers for eg Cronus, I would still say it is very possible for the Dragon God to use the Elixir or Control Negative Chi to enslave Cronus but I would assume it is harder to enslave Cronus than to enslave Splurgie.

Most importantly, you must understand the Dragon God is using an especially powerful potion of Elixir of Control and enhanced Negative Chi skills to enslave Splurgie. It is not a feat which can be accomplished by a common man.

Faceless Dude wrote:Have to disagree about the Slugorth and a lack of Deific powers. The word 'Deific' comes from being deified, or treated as a Deity by your worshipers. if enough people consider you a god, then you get the powers of one. As its noted in I believe WB2 that the Splugorth have witches, it's not a stretch to believe that they have worshipers too, hence are open to Deific powers

In the books, it was written that the Oni Emperor has billions of Oni worshipping him but at best he is only a demi-god whose powers of godhood came from Amaterasu herself.

If a being can easily become a full Deity with deific powers just by having billions of worshipers, then the Oni Emperor would have become a full God with Deific powers by now.

So no, the oni emperor and the splurgoth are not gods with Deific powers.

Although both of them do have powers of immortality which are gifted to them by my Dragon God in return for them to willingly becoming my followers.

RedRose wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:2) If you consider Splurgies or Vampire Intelligences or other Supernatural Evil Intelligences as beings of
supernatural evil, then they would be beings of negative chil

Easy enough to prove / disprove.

show us where in the description of Splurogthian's writeups that they have Chi at all book / page number please?

With out that VERY interesting tidbit of information. You can not say a negative chi-attack will effect some one with out chi of any sort .

I can use negative chi-attacks to influence both beings with chi and beings without chi. Read up on the chi rules again. Thank you.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

RedRose wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:2) If you consider Splurgies or Vampire Intelligences or other Supernatural Evil Intelligences as beings of
supernatural evil, then they would be beings of negative chil

Easy enough to prove / disprove.

show us where in the description of Splurogthian's writeups that they have Chi at all book / page number please?

With out that VERY interesting tidbit of information. You can not say a negative chi-attack will effect some one with out chi of any sort .

I can use negative chi-attacks to influence both beings with chi and beings without chi. Read up on the chi rules again. Thank you.

Something without chi can't be manipulated by negative chi manipulating attacks, should be self-evident. Just because something might have negative chi doesn't mean it can be manipulated by something able to affect negative chi, but since you're apparently operating under 'well I'm talking about a Villain Sue here' and since Villain Sues can do anything no matter what the rules actually are that affect everything else there really isn't anything of a discussion to be had since all your responses are just 'well I house rule it so he can get away with it'.

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

RedRose wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:2) If you consider Splurgies or Vampire Intelligences or other Supernatural Evil Intelligences as beings of
supernatural evil, then they would be beings of negative chil

Easy enough to prove / disprove.

show us where in the description of Splurogthian's writeups that they have Chi at all book / page number please?

With out that VERY interesting tidbit of information. You can not say a negative chi-attack will effect some one with out chi of any sort .

I can use negative chi-attacks to influence both beings with chi and beings without chi. Read up on the chi rules again. Thank you.

Something without chi can't be manipulated by negative chi manipulating attacks, should be self-evident. Just because something might have negative chi doesn't mean it can be manipulated by something able to affect negative chi, but since you're apparently operating under 'well I'm talking about a Villain Sue here' and since Villain Sues can do anything no matter what the rules actually are that affect everything else there really isn't anything of a discussion to be had since all your responses are just 'well I house rule it so he can get away with it'.

N&S 118

Non-Chi Masters in Chi Combat: Those without training in
Chi Mastery are totally vulnerable in Chi Combat. Their Chi
can be easily destroyed and, once they're at zero, they can
be filled with negative chi.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

RedRose wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:2) If you consider Splurgies or Vampire Intelligences or other Supernatural Evil Intelligences as beings of
supernatural evil, then they would be beings of negative chil

Easy enough to prove / disprove.

show us where in the description of Splurogthian's writeups that they have Chi at all book / page number please?

With out that VERY interesting tidbit of information. You can not say a negative chi-attack will effect some one with out chi of any sort .

I can use negative chi-attacks to influence both beings with chi and beings without chi. Read up on the chi rules again. Thank you.

Something without chi can't be manipulated by negative chi manipulating attacks, should be self-evident. Just because something might have negative chi doesn't mean it can be manipulated by something able to affect negative chi, but since you're apparently operating under 'well I'm talking about a Villain Sue here' and since Villain Sues can do anything no matter what the rules actually are that affect everything else there really isn't anything of a discussion to be had since all your responses are just 'well I house rule it so he can get away with it'.

N&S 118

Non-Chi Masters in Chi Combat: Those without training in
Chi Mastery are totally vulnerable in Chi Combat. Their Chi
can be easily destroyed and, once they're at zero, they can
be filled with negative chi.

Only applicable to the N&SS setting, rules modifications to cover the greater Multiverse were put in the conversion books since as I've noted previously the rules from N&SS aren't written with the megaverse in mind. Also do note that even in N&SS book it notes some modifications regarding how things like super-powers affect things like Chi. You can't just pop in and infect a god or alien intelligence with negative chi and *poof* now it's your slave.

crystaleye1950 wrote:Suppose an Enlightened Immortal Dragon God is pretty chummy with a family of Splurgoth Intelligences and he want these splurgies and their troops to work for him. But he wants to ensure that the splurgies are 101% loyal to him even though these splurgies are aberrant in nature.

So how would the Enlightened Immortal Dragon God enslave these splurgie Intelligences?

1) Chiangku Elixir of Power & Deceit
2) Enslave/Control Through Negative Chi

I wanna add the Diabolist Ward of Permanency plus the Charm/Domination/Mind Control spells but splurgie Intelligences are supernatural creatures.

Any further ideas?

GM fiat and "because the storyline demands it!" are hte only ways to make it work. Any given Splugorth Intelligence is tens of thousands of years old, ridiculously intelligent, rules an empire of several worlds in several dimensions, and is guarded by an incredibly varied army of incredibly varied badasses with incredibly varied powers. And they all came to power in a ridiculously competitive environment of interdimensional conquest where there's always a dozen enemies waiting to strike them down at the first sign of weakness and a dozen Splugorth rivals waiting to strike them down at the first sign of being compromised.

Basically if you want to run a campaign where there's a bigger and badder baddass who's pulling the strings of a bunch of Splugorth Intelligences then there's no point trying to find a thing in the canon rules that will justify it, because there's no way any Sploog would fall for anything that another canon RCC has (and even if he did fall for it, his fellow Sploogs would kill him and take his stuff). You want a vague ominous and powerful power behind the throne kinda thing, sorta like the role The Dark plays in Nightbane.

Rallan wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:Suppose an Enlightened Immortal Dragon God is pretty chummy with a family of Splurgoth Intelligences and he want these splurgies and their troops to work for him. But he wants to ensure that the splurgies are 101% loyal to him even though these splurgies are aberrant in nature.

So how would the Enlightened Immortal Dragon God enslave these splurgie Intelligences?

1) Chiangku Elixir of Power & Deceit
2) Enslave/Control Through Negative Chi

I wanna add the Diabolist Ward of Permanency plus the Charm/Domination/Mind Control spells but splurgie Intelligences are supernatural creatures.

Any further ideas?

GM fiat and "because the storyline demands it!" are hte only ways to make it work. Any given Splugorth Intelligence is tens of thousands of years old, ridiculously intelligent, rules an empire of several worlds in several dimensions, and is guarded by an incredibly varied army of incredibly varied badasses with incredibly varied powers. And they all came to power in a ridiculously competitive environment of interdimensional conquest where there's always a dozen enemies waiting to strike them down at the first sign of weakness and a dozen Splugorth rivals waiting to strike them down at the first sign of being compromised.

Basically if you want to run a campaign where there's a bigger and badder baddass who's pulling the strings of a bunch of Splugorth Intelligences then there's no point trying to find a thing in the canon rules that will justify it, because there's no way any Sploog would fall for anything that another canon RCC has (and even if he did fall for it, his fellow Sploogs would kill him and take his stuff). You want a vague ominous and powerful power behind the throne kinda thing, sorta like the role The Dark plays in Nightbane.

Rallan, my dear friend, that conversation has already come and gone. That train has left the station. That pony has been ridden. That block has been walked. The t-shirt had been gotten. The stick we used to beat the dead horse broke... I can keep going...

Nightmask wrote:

Something without chi can't be manipulated by negative chi manipulating attacks, should be self-evident. Just because something might have negative chi doesn't mean it can be manipulated by something able to affect negative chi, but since you're apparently operating under 'well I'm talking about a Villain Sue here' and since Villain Sues can do anything no matter what the rules actually are that affect everything else there really isn't anything of a discussion to be had since all your responses are just 'well I house rule it so he can get away with it'.

N&S 118

Non-Chi Masters in Chi Combat: Those without training in
Chi Mastery are totally vulnerable in Chi Combat. Their Chi
can be easily destroyed and, once they're at zero, they can
be filled with negative chi.

Only applicable to the N&SS setting, rules modifications to cover the greater Multiverse were put in the conversion books since as I've noted previously the rules from N&SS aren't written with the megaverse in mind. Also do note that even in N&SS book it notes some modifications regarding how things like super-powers affect things like Chi. You can't just pop in and infect a god or alien intelligence with negative chi and *poof* now it's your slave.

Show me the book and page number where it says you can't infect another god or alien intelligence with negative chi and make it your slave.

Also show me how does any interaction between chi and superpowers prevent a god from infecting another god or alien intelligence with negative chi and making it your slave?

Show me some hard concrete ruling proofs and please do not claim that you know what the writers have in mind when writing up N&S. Most probably, the writers wanna do the best damn job available and don't really care how the N&S rules affect the rest of the megaverse.

Rallan wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:Suppose an Enlightened Immortal Dragon God is pretty chummy with a family of Splurgoth Intelligences and he want these splurgies and their troops to work for him. But he wants to ensure that the splurgies are 101% loyal to him even though these splurgies are aberrant in nature.

So how would the Enlightened Immortal Dragon God enslave these splurgie Intelligences?

1) Chiangku Elixir of Power & Deceit
2) Enslave/Control Through Negative Chi

I wanna add the Diabolist Ward of Permanency plus the Charm/Domination/Mind Control spells but splurgie Intelligences are supernatural creatures.

Any further ideas?

GM fiat and "because the storyline demands it!" are hte only ways to make it work. Any given Splugorth Intelligence is tens of thousands of years old, ridiculously intelligent, rules an empire of several worlds in several dimensions, and is guarded by an incredibly varied army of incredibly varied badasses with incredibly varied powers. And they all came to power in a ridiculously competitive environment of interdimensional conquest where there's always a dozen enemies waiting to strike them down at the first sign of weakness and a dozen Splugorth rivals waiting to strike them down at the first sign of being compromised.

Basically if you want to run a campaign where there's a bigger and badder baddass who's pulling the strings of a bunch of Splugorth Intelligences then there's no point trying to find a thing in the canon rules that will justify it, because there's no way any Sploog would fall for anything that another canon RCC has (and even if he did fall for it, his fellow Sploogs would kill him and take his stuff). You want a vague ominous and powerful power behind the throne kinda thing, sorta like the role The Dark plays in Nightbane.

Right so you are telling me that an Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon Mega-Hero GOD who is million of years old, if not billions of years, Super Ridiculously Intelligent, rules Multiple empires of thousands of worlds in hundreds of dimensions and guarded by an ARMY OF SUPER-POWERED SUPER BAD-ASS ENLIGHTENED IMMORTAL ELDER GODS isn't gonna find it easy to take down the splurgoth or even the entire splurgoth race is such a GOD wants to?

Are you telling me that not even Zeus or Odin or Zurvan can control and command Splurgoth if they want to?

What's the saying again? That there is always a higher mountain than the one you are standing on?

Considering that the Splugorth are collectively considered one of the most powerful forces in the entire megaverse (and it's a megaverse that they already share with a lot of entities that are individually more powerful than a Splugorth Intelligence) then yes, that's what I'm saying. If you want a force that can mystically enslave a bunch of Splugorth Intelligences to its will then you're going to have to come up with something that runs on pure handwavium, because that level of power is right off the scale even by Rifts standards.

Plus I've seen the stats in conversion book 2. If you're pitting an army of gods against an army of alien intelligences, I'll bet against the gods every time

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:Only applicable to the N&SS setting, rules modifications to cover the greater Multiverse were put in the conversion books since as I've noted previously the rules from N&SS aren't written with the megaverse in mind. Also do note that even in N&SS book it notes some modifications regarding how things like super-powers affect things like Chi. You can't just pop in and infect a god or alien intelligence with negative chi and *poof* now it's your slave.

Show me the book and page number where it says you can't infect another god or alien intelligence with negative chi and make it your slave.

Strange, you say that as if the books say that you can. They don't. Plus given you were arguing that those evil gods and alien intelligences are creatures of negative chi they'd be immune to enslavement because Control Negative Chi only works on creatures of positive chi infected with negative chi and not creatures of natural negative chi.

crystaleye1950 wrote:Also show me how does any interaction between chi and superpowers prevent a god from infecting another god or alien intelligence with negative chi and making it your slave?

There are superpowers that both purge one quickly of negative chi and can shield against being infected, and given a highly accelerated healing rate purges one quickly and ALL gods and alien intelligences have that in spades even if you could successfully infect one you'd never manage to use the power to enslave one.

crystaleye1950 wrote:Show me some hard concrete ruling proofs and please do not claim that you know what the writers have in mind when writing up N&S. Most probably, the writers wanna do the best damn job available and don't really care how the N&S rules affect the rest of the megaverse.

So basically your statement is 'no really I'm the one who knows what the writers were thinking, and it favors me of course', and we already know Palladium wrote those books without consideration for the material in them being imported to other settings which is why they have conversion rules because the rules weren't meant to apply across the megaverse.

We don't even get more than half a page in the conversion book regarding the Mystic China setting and Chi, and barely more than a page in the N&SS book regarding how the existing old-school Heroes Unlimited setting interacted with the things in N&SS. One thing we do know is Palladium rules against just about anything that allows one-shot-kills and easy conquest/enslavement of others. You certainly wouldn't find a 'oh sure just infect an AI with negative chi and in three easy steps you can enslave it to your will' ruling around anywhere as you suggest.

What you suggest is so far outside what's believable that I doubt anyone sees how it could be any fun at all when your pet character effectively rules the entire megaverse and sees the hordes of the Mechanoids as a trivial challenge and curb stomp Dominators on lazy days.

Rallan wrote:Considering that the Splugorth are collectively considered one of the most powerful forces in the entire megaverse (and it's a megaverse that they already share with a lot of entities that are individually more powerful than a Splugorth Intelligence) then yes, that's what I'm saying. If you want a force that can mystically enslave a bunch of Splugorth Intelligences to its will then you're going to have to come up with something that runs on pure handwavium, because that level of power is right off the scale even by Rifts standards.

Plus I've seen the stats in conversion book 2. If you're pitting an army of gods against an army of alien intelligences, I'll bet against the gods every time

An Army of Gods have deific powers but an army of "normal" alien intelligences do not have deific powers.

Plus I rewrite the stats for the Gods. The Gods are suppose to be ten times or even a hundred times, a thousand times more powerful than the "average" alien intelligence.

I actually compare the stats for the alien intelligences to the stats of the gods and upgraded the stats of the gods by a certain amount to ensure that the "average" alien intelligence would be whupped by the "average" God anytime.

The stats of Gods are suppose to be right off the scale even by Rifts standards.

You can say that Gods are supposed to be the Godly Intelligences of the Megaverse in opposition to the Alien Intelligences.

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:Only applicable to the N&SS setting, rules modifications to cover the greater Multiverse were put in the conversion books since as I've noted previously the rules from N&SS aren't written with the megaverse in mind. Also do note that even in N&SS book it notes some modifications regarding how things like super-powers affect things like Chi. You can't just pop in and infect a god or alien intelligence with negative chi and *poof* now it's your slave.

Show me the book and page number where it says you can't infect another god or alien intelligence with negative chi and make it your slave.

Strange, you say that as if the books say that you can. They don't. Plus given you were arguing that those evil gods and alien intelligences are creatures of negative chi they'd be immune to enslavement because Control Negative Chi only works on creatures of positive chi infected with negative chi and not creatures of natural negative chi.

I wouldn't bother clearing up your confusion in regards to the negative chi rules.

crystaleye1950 wrote:Also show me how does any interaction between chi and superpowers prevent a god from infecting another god or alien intelligence with negative chi and making it your slave?

There are superpowers that both purge one quickly of negative chi and can shield against being infected, and given a highly accelerated healing rate purges one quickly and ALL gods and alien intelligences have that in spades even if you could successfully infect one you'd never manage to use the power to enslave one.

Only those with chi skills can purge negative chi. No healing power or spell in the universe can remove negative chi except for those with chi healing skills.

While I can accept that humans lack the sufficient amount of chi to influence a god or alien intelligence, I would rule that a Enlightened Immortal Dragon God with millions of chi would find enslaving other gods and alien intelligences with ease.

crystaleye1950 wrote:Show me some hard concrete ruling proofs and please do not claim that you know what the writers have in mind when writing up N&S. Most probably, the writers wanna do the best damn job available and don't really care how the N&S rules affect the rest of the megaverse.

So basically your statement is 'no really I'm the one who knows what the writers were thinking, and it favors me of course', and we already know Palladium wrote those books without consideration for the material in them being imported to other settings which is why they have conversion rules because the rules weren't meant to apply across the megaverse.

We don't even get more than half a page in the conversion book regarding the Mystic China setting and Chi, and barely more than a page in the N&SS book regarding how the existing old-school Heroes Unlimited setting interacted with the things in N&SS. One thing we do know is Palladium rules against just about anything that allows one-shot-kills and easy conquest/enslavement of others. You certainly wouldn't find a 'oh sure just infect an AI with negative chi and in three easy steps you can enslave it to your will' ruling around anywhere as you suggest.

What you suggest is so far outside what's believable that I doubt anyone sees how it could be any fun at all when your pet character effectively rules the entire megaverse and sees the hordes of the Mechanoids as a trivial challenge and curb stomp Dominators on lazy days.

A normal human would find it near impossible to infect an AI with negative chi and enslave it. That I would agree.

An Enlightened Immortal Dragon God would find infecting AIs with negative chi and enslaving them to be as easy as breathing air.

So would infecting and enslaving Dominators for that matter.

Greek Name: Zeus, Roman Name: Jupiter
Alignment: Anarchist
M.D.C.: 1,000,000 (200,000 on Rifts Earth and most other dimensions)
S.D.C./Hit Points (for non-M.D.C. worlds): 70,000 S.D.C. and 30,000
hit points.
Height: 60 to 600 feet (18 to 183 m).
Weight: Varies with size.
Age: Over 5,000 million years old.
Attributes: I.Q. 280, M.E. 300, M.A. 250, P.S. 500 (supernatural), P.P. 250, P.E. 350, P.B. 240, Spd 600 (410 mph/650 km).
Experience Level: 200th level air and water warlock, 150th level ley line walker, and 150th level warrior.

In my mind, the only Alien Intelligences comparable to the Gods are the Old Ones and Cronus.

Alien Intelligences like the splurgoth and the Vampire Intelligences? They are supposed to be babies and toddlers.

But all of you who fear that the Gods may become too powerful don't really need to worry.

I will be sure that no matter how powerful Zeus may be, even he would be a child compared to my Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God.

The Dragon Gods are supposed to the most powerful Gods of all, aren't they?

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:Only applicable to the N&SS setting, rules modifications to cover the greater Multiverse were put in the conversion books since as I've noted previously the rules from N&SS aren't written with the megaverse in mind. Also do note that even in N&SS book it notes some modifications regarding how things like super-powers affect things like Chi. You can't just pop in and infect a god or alien intelligence with negative chi and *poof* now it's your slave.

Show me the book and page number where it says you can't infect another god or alien intelligence with negative chi and make it your slave.

Strange, you say that as if the books say that you can. They don't. Plus given you were arguing that those evil gods and alien intelligences are creatures of negative chi they'd be immune to enslavement because Control Negative Chi only works on creatures of positive chi infected with negative chi and not creatures of natural negative chi.

I wouldn't bother clearing up your confusion in regards to the negative chi rules.

Given you're the one confused about the chi rules that's quite understandable. If you bother to reread them you'll see it notes 'infecting creatures of positive chi with negative chi' ONLY, it does NOT say 'creatures possessing negative chi'. You're only speaking to your house rules to ensure everything works for your Villain Sue and not the actual rules.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:Also show me how does any interaction between chi and superpowers prevent a god from infecting another god or alien intelligence with negative chi and making it your slave?

There are superpowers that both purge one quickly of negative chi and can shield against being infected, and given a highly accelerated healing rate purges one quickly and ALL gods and alien intelligences have that in spades even if you could successfully infect one you'd never manage to use the power to enslave one.

Only those with chi skills can purge negative chi. No healing power or spell in the universe can remove negative chi except for those with chi healing skills.

While I can accept that humans lack the sufficient amount of chi to influence a god or alien intelligence, I would rule that a Enlightened Immortal Dragon God with millions of chi would find enslaving other gods and alien intelligences with ease.

Yeah sorry but you're dead wrong. Even the minor power of 'Healing Factor' removes one point of negative chi per hour, the spell 'Reverse Chi' will convert whatever flavor chi you've got to the opposite flavor so someone with negative chi instantly becomes positive. Just to name a few examples of where you're wrong. For those who are subject to 'Control Negative Chi' you have to actually force them into servitude 3 times in a row, and Gods and Alien Intelligences have massive bonuses to save against that kind of thing even IF one could do something as ridiculous as infect them with negative chi because again people don't just stand around and let you do stuff like that to them and there are ways to protect against it.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:Show me some hard concrete ruling proofs and please do not claim that you know what the writers have in mind when writing up N&S. Most probably, the writers wanna do the best damn job available and don't really care how the N&S rules affect the rest of the megaverse.

So basically your statement is 'no really I'm the one who knows what the writers were thinking, and it favors me of course', and we already know Palladium wrote those books without consideration for the material in them being imported to other settings which is why they have conversion rules because the rules weren't meant to apply across the megaverse.

We don't even get more than half a page in the conversion book regarding the Mystic China setting and Chi, and barely more than a page in the N&SS book regarding how the existing old-school Heroes Unlimited setting interacted with the things in N&SS. One thing we do know is Palladium rules against just about anything that allows one-shot-kills and easy conquest/enslavement of others. You certainly wouldn't find a 'oh sure just infect an AI with negative chi and in three easy steps you can enslave it to your will' ruling around anywhere as you suggest.

What you suggest is so far outside what's believable that I doubt anyone sees how it could be any fun at all when your pet character effectively rules the entire megaverse and sees the hordes of the Mechanoids as a trivial challenge and curb stomp Dominators on lazy days.

A normal human would find it near impossible to infect an AI with negative chi and enslave it. That I would agree.

An Enlightened Immortal Dragon God would find infecting AIs with negative chi and enslaving them to be as easy as breathing air.

So would infecting and enslaving Dominators for that matter.

Only in a game with the house rules basically amounting to 'my Villain Sue never fails at anything and nothing can exist that may resist or delay him', which is only your game. In games remotely connected to the game rules on things said character would find itself not fairing so well as it wouldn't be operating in a vacuum and would have to deal with other Enlightened Immortals all over it for behaving in such a manner so contrary to rules of the Tao and Enlightenment. Creatures beyond any hope of it controlling, and likely even greater powers than that for so disrupting the natural order.

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:
I wouldn't bother clearing up your confusion in regards to the negative chi rules.

Given you're the one confused about the chi rules that's quite understandable. If you bother to reread them you'll see it notes 'infecting creatures of positive chi with negative chi' ONLY, it does NOT say 'creatures possessing negative chi'. You're only speaking to your house rules to ensure everything works for your Villain Sue and not the actual rules.

Possess creatures of positive chi - Control/Enslave Through Negative Chi
Possess creatures of negative chi - Control/Enslave Creature of Pure Negative Chi

These are TWO DIFFERENT SPELLS.

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:
Only those with chi skills can purge negative chi. No healing power or spell in the universe can remove negative chi except for those with chi healing skills.

While I can accept that humans lack the sufficient amount of chi to influence a god or alien intelligence, I would rule that a Enlightened Immortal Dragon God with millions of chi would find enslaving other gods and alien intelligences with ease.

Yeah sorry but you're dead wrong. Even the minor power of 'Healing Factor' removes one point of negative chi per hour, the spell 'Reverse Chi' will convert whatever flavor chi you've got to the opposite flavor so someone with negative chi instantly becomes positive. Just to name a few examples of where you're wrong. For those who are subject to 'Control Negative Chi' you have to actually force them into servitude 3 times in a row, and Gods and Alien Intelligences have massive bonuses to save against that kind of thing even IF one could do something as ridiculous as infect them with negative chi because again people don't just stand around and let you do stuff like that to them and there are ways to protect against it.

Superpowers like "Healing Factor" do not remove negative chi. Only Chi Mastery skills remove negative. "Reverse Chi" is a chi magic spell possessed by those with chi mastery.

The bonuses of Alien Intelligences to save are considered to be peanuts when AI are trying to save against Gods.

Nightmask wrote:
Only in a game with the house rules basically amounting to 'my Villain Sue never fails at anything and nothing can exist that may resist or delay him', which is only your game. In games remotely connected to the game rules on things said character would find itself not fairing so well as it wouldn't be operating in a vacuum and would have to deal with other Enlightened Immortals all over it for behaving in such a manner so contrary to rules of the Tao and Enlightenment. Creatures beyond any hope of it controlling, and likely even greater powers than that for so disrupting the natural order.

Well this is my game with my own rules. I set the rules for my game and I dictate that my Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God rules over all even over other Gods and Alien Intelligences.

Not happy? I ain't forcing you to play my game.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:
Only those with chi skills can purge negative chi. No healing power or spell in the universe can remove negative chi except for those with chi healing skills.

While I can accept that humans lack the sufficient amount of chi to influence a god or alien intelligence, I would rule that a Enlightened Immortal Dragon God with millions of chi would find enslaving other gods and alien intelligences with ease.

Yeah sorry but you're dead wrong. Even the minor power of 'Healing Factor' removes one point of negative chi per hour, the spell 'Reverse Chi' will convert whatever flavor chi you've got to the opposite flavor so someone with negative chi instantly becomes positive. Just to name a few examples of where you're wrong. For those who are subject to 'Control Negative Chi' you have to actually force them into servitude 3 times in a row, and Gods and Alien Intelligences have massive bonuses to save against that kind of thing even IF one could do something as ridiculous as infect them with negative chi because again people don't just stand around and let you do stuff like that to them and there are ways to protect against it.

Superpowers like "Healing Factor" do not remove negative chi. Only Chi Mastery skills remove negative. "Reverse Chi" is a chi magic spell possessed by those with chi mastery.

The bonuses of Alien Intelligences to save are considered to be peanuts when AI are trying to save against Gods.

Like I said you're dead wrong. You can house rule it that way but Healing Factor does remove negative chi and Reverse Chi isn't a spell restricted to Chi Masters, it's a Wu Shih spell and any mage able to learn incantations can learn Reverse Chi. Same goes with your house rule regarding the bonuses to save that gods and alien intelligences have

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:Only in a game with the house rules basically amounting to 'my Villain Sue never fails at anything and nothing can exist that may resist or delay him', which is only your game. In games remotely connected to the game rules on things said character would find itself not fairing so well as it wouldn't be operating in a vacuum and would have to deal with other Enlightened Immortals all over it for behaving in such a manner so contrary to rules of the Tao and Enlightenment. Creatures beyond any hope of it controlling, and likely even greater powers than that for so disrupting the natural order.

Well this is my game with my own rules. I set the rules for my game and I dictate that my Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God rules over all even over other Gods and Alien Intelligences.

Not happy? I ain't forcing you to play my game.

Then you shouldn't waste people's time with a thread that asks people how your villain sue can go around enslaving gods and alien intelligences if your stance is 'screw the rules whatever I want goes'. The question includes the unspoken implication that you're trying to work within the rules of the game, but your stated position is that the rules are worthless and you're changing them however you want so your villain sue can be master of the multiverse. So you've an enlightened immortal that behaves completely contrary to how an enlightened individual would, that goes around saying 'you're my slave now' and Splugorth and gods just go 'Yes Master!', and simply has no value because it doesn't have to work for anything. That was even one man's version of Hell in the original Twilight Zone, as he found out he had everything he wanted but it was meaningless because there wasn't even a remote challenge to things and he couldn't even flip a coin and have it come up any way but how he wanted it to.

crystaleye1950 wrote:Greek Name: Zeus, Roman Name: Jupiter
Alignment: Anarchist
M.D.C.: 1,000,000 (200,000 on Rifts Earth and most other dimensions)
S.D.C./Hit Points (for non-M.D.C. worlds): 70,000 S.D.C. and 30,000
hit points.
Height: 60 to 600 feet (18 to 183 m).
Weight: Varies with size.
Age: Over 5,000 million years old.
Attributes: I.Q. 280, M.E. 300, M.A. 250, P.S. 500 (supernatural), P.P. 250, P.E. 350, P.B. 240, Spd 600 (410 mph/650 km).
Experience Level: 200th level air and water warlock, 150th level ley line walker, and 150th level warrior.

In my mind, the only Alien Intelligences comparable to the Gods are the Old Ones and Cronus.

Alien Intelligences like the splurgoth and the Vampire Intelligences? They are supposed to be babies and toddlers.

Zeus is stated out in Pantheons of the Megaverse and he is no where near that powerful.

His stats in Pantheons put him on par with the Spugorth, not above them.

Hystrix wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:Greek Name: Zeus, Roman Name: Jupiter
Alignment: Anarchist
M.D.C.: 1,000,000 (200,000 on Rifts Earth and most other dimensions)
S.D.C./Hit Points (for non-M.D.C. worlds): 70,000 S.D.C. and 30,000
hit points.
Height: 60 to 600 feet (18 to 183 m).
Weight: Varies with size.
Age: Over 5,000 million years old.
Attributes: I.Q. 280, M.E. 300, M.A. 250, P.S. 500 (supernatural), P.P. 250, P.E. 350, P.B. 240, Spd 600 (410 mph/650 km).
Experience Level: 200th level air and water warlock, 150th level ley line walker, and 150th level warrior.

In my mind, the only Alien Intelligences comparable to the Gods are the Old Ones and Cronus.

Alien Intelligences like the splurgoth and the Vampire Intelligences? They are supposed to be babies and toddlers.

Zeus is stated out in Pantheons of the Megaverse and he is no where near that powerful.

His stats in Pantheons put him on par with the Spugorth, not above them.

He just said a few posts back...

crystaleye1950 wrote:...Plus I rewrite the stats for the Gods...

So yeah, this thread's no longer worth paying attention to.

The Beast wrote:

Hystrix wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:Greek Name: Zeus, Roman Name: Jupiter
Alignment: Anarchist
M.D.C.: 1,000,000 (200,000 on Rifts Earth and most other dimensions)
S.D.C./Hit Points (for non-M.D.C. worlds): 70,000 S.D.C. and 30,000
hit points.
Height: 60 to 600 feet (18 to 183 m).
Weight: Varies with size.
Age: Over 5,000 million years old.
Attributes: I.Q. 280, M.E. 300, M.A. 250, P.S. 500 (supernatural), P.P. 250, P.E. 350, P.B. 240, Spd 600 (410 mph/650 km).
Experience Level: 200th level air and water warlock, 150th level ley line walker, and 150th level warrior.

In my mind, the only Alien Intelligences comparable to the Gods are the Old Ones and Cronus.

Alien Intelligences like the splurgoth and the Vampire Intelligences? They are supposed to be babies and toddlers.

Zeus is stated out in Pantheons of the Megaverse and he is no where near that powerful.

His stats in Pantheons put him on par with the Spugorth, not above them.

He just said a few posts back...

crystaleye1950 wrote:...Plus I rewrite the stats for the Gods...

So yeah, this thread's no longer worth paying attention to.

Gottcha. I had trouble reading past those erroneous stats.

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:
Only those with chi skills can purge negative chi. No healing power or spell in the universe can remove negative chi except for those with chi healing skills.

While I can accept that humans lack the sufficient amount of chi to influence a god or alien intelligence, I would rule that a Enlightened Immortal Dragon God with millions of chi would find enslaving other gods and alien intelligences with ease.

Yeah sorry but you're dead wrong. Even the minor power of 'Healing Factor' removes one point of negative chi per hour, the spell 'Reverse Chi' will convert whatever flavor chi you've got to the opposite flavor so someone with negative chi instantly becomes positive. Just to name a few examples of where you're wrong. For those who are subject to 'Control Negative Chi' you have to actually force them into servitude 3 times in a row, and Gods and Alien Intelligences have massive bonuses to save against that kind of thing even IF one could do something as ridiculous as infect them with negative chi because again people don't just stand around and let you do stuff like that to them and there are ways to protect against it.

Superpowers like "Healing Factor" do not remove negative chi. Only Chi Mastery skills remove negative. "Reverse Chi" is a chi magic spell possessed by those with chi mastery.

The bonuses of Alien Intelligences to save are considered to be peanuts when AI are trying to save against Gods.

Like I said you're dead wrong. You can house rule it that way but Healing Factor does remove negative chi and Reverse Chi isn't a spell restricted to Chi Masters, it's a Wu Shih spell and any mage able to learn incantations can learn Reverse Chi. Same goes with your house rule regarding the bonuses to save that gods and alien intelligences have

Where does it say Healing Factor and other healing powers remove negative chi? Book and page number please?

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

crystaleye1950 wrote:
Only those with chi skills can purge negative chi. No healing power or spell in the universe can remove negative chi except for those with chi healing skills.

While I can accept that humans lack the sufficient amount of chi to influence a god or alien intelligence, I would rule that a Enlightened Immortal Dragon God with millions of chi would find enslaving other gods and alien intelligences with ease.

Yeah sorry but you're dead wrong. Even the minor power of 'Healing Factor' removes one point of negative chi per hour, the spell 'Reverse Chi' will convert whatever flavor chi you've got to the opposite flavor so someone with negative chi instantly becomes positive. Just to name a few examples of where you're wrong. For those who are subject to 'Control Negative Chi' you have to actually force them into servitude 3 times in a row, and Gods and Alien Intelligences have massive bonuses to save against that kind of thing even IF one could do something as ridiculous as infect them with negative chi because again people don't just stand around and let you do stuff like that to them and there are ways to protect against it.

Superpowers like "Healing Factor" do not remove negative chi. Only Chi Mastery skills remove negative. "Reverse Chi" is a chi magic spell possessed by those with chi mastery.

The bonuses of Alien Intelligences to save are considered to be peanuts when AI are trying to save against Gods.

Like I said you're dead wrong. You can house rule it that way but Healing Factor does remove negative chi and Reverse Chi isn't a spell restricted to Chi Masters, it's a Wu Shih spell and any mage able to learn incantations can learn Reverse Chi. Same goes with your house rule regarding the bonuses to save that gods and alien intelligences have

Where does it say Healing Factor and other healing powers remove negative chi? Book and page number please?

You do need to reread the material in Ninjas And Super-Spies, it's near the back as part of the Q&A/conversion rules for using N&SS with Heroes Unlimited Revised or Palladium Fantasy (the book prior to the current incarnation). Extraordinary Physical Endurance provides double the normal positive Chi and Healing Factor (and by extension the even more impressive Major Power Versions) provides for purging of negative chi and immunity to Dim Mak. Those extremely powerful healing abilities make for beings that treat negative chi infection as an easy thing to heal.

Nightmask wrote:You do need to reread the material in Ninjas And Super-Spies, it's near the back as part of the Q&A/conversion rules for using N&SS with Heroes Unlimited Revised or Palladium Fantasy (the book prior to the current incarnation). Extraordinary Physical Endurance provides double the normal positive Chi and Healing Factor (and by extension the even more impressive Major Power Versions) provides for purging of negative chi and immunity to Dim Mak. Those extremely powerful healing abilities make for beings that treat negative chi infection as an easy thing to heal.

So if Splyncryth has extraordinary PE, his PE of 28 will become a positive chi of 56.

Healing Factor only allows dispelling of one negative chi per hour. More powerful abilities only allows the dispelling of negative chi at a rate of 5 negative chi per hour at the most.

So if my dragon god hits splyncryth with one million negative chi, it will take splyncryth 200000 hours or 22 years to dispel all the negative chi even if he has the most powerful healing super abilities.

Good luck with that.

Nightmask wrote:
Like I said you're dead wrong. You can house rule it that way but Healing Factor does remove negative chi and Reverse Chi isn't a spell restricted to Chi Masters, it's a Wu Shih spell and any mage able to learn incantations can learn Reverse Chi. Same goes with your house rule regarding the bonuses to save that gods and alien intelligences have

Just did another analysis of Reverse Chi.

First off, All Wu Shih spells are extremely hard for any non-oriental mage to learn. Unless you are a non-western mage who learnt his magick skills from an oriental teacher, you are gonna have extreme difficulties and dangers converting wu shih spell magick to western invocations.

Secondly, Reverse Chi only affects chi of your own origin.

Say my Dragon God hits Splyncryth with one million negative chi. Splyncryth has 28 positive chi points which he gets from a PE of 28 as Splyncryth doesn't has chi mastery skills.

So if Splyncryth casts Reverse Chi on himself, the biggest number of negative chi which he can convert to positive chi is only 28 max.

To purge the rest of the 999972 points of negative chi, he will have to seek a chi masters' help or purge his chi by the normal method which is dispelling 1d6 chi points per day (assuming 2d6 negative chi points with healing factor, 5d6 with other healing powers).

Best case scenario Splyncryth has all healing super-powers which heal 150 negative chi points per day.

It is still gonna take Splyncryth 18 years to wipe out all his one million negative Chi.

If any GM allows negative chi to be purged in the way you described then the chi mastery skills would be totally useless because it costs just a mere 2 ppe to remove negative chi damage.

Negative chi attacks are supposed to be extremely dangerous and frightening. Good luck, Splyn! You are gonna need it!

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:You do need to reread the material in Ninjas And Super-Spies, it's near the back as part of the Q&A/conversion rules for using N&SS with Heroes Unlimited Revised or Palladium Fantasy (the book prior to the current incarnation). Extraordinary Physical Endurance provides double the normal positive Chi and Healing Factor (and by extension the even more impressive Major Power Versions) provides for purging of negative chi and immunity to Dim Mak. Those extremely powerful healing abilities make for beings that treat negative chi infection as an easy thing to heal.

So if Splyncryth has extraordinary PE, his PE of 28 will become a positive chi of 56.

Healing Factor only allows dispelling of one negative chi per hour. More powerful abilities only allows the dispelling of negative chi at a rate of 5 negative chi per hour at the most.

So if my dragon god hits splyncryth with one million negative chi, it will take splyncryth 200000 hours or 22 years to dispel all the negative chi.

Good luck with that.

Of course it's not actually possible to have a million chi even for an Enlightened Immortal, maaaaaybe ten thousand at best. Also not a good idea burning out all your chi either, except of course your villain sue has infinite chi, PPE, and resources so there isn't anything about the character one could enjoy. It's the Boring Invincible Villain Trope taken to Beyond The Impossible levels.

crystaleye1950 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:
Like I said you're dead wrong. You can house rule it that way but Healing Factor does remove negative chi and Reverse Chi isn't a spell restricted to Chi Masters, it's a Wu Shih spell and any mage able to learn incantations can learn Reverse Chi. Same goes with your house rule regarding the bonuses to save that gods and alien intelligences have

Just did another analysis of Reverse Chi.

First off, All Wu Shih spells are extremely hard for any non-oriental mage to learn. Unless you are a non-western mage who learnt his magick skills from an oriental teacher, you are gonna have extreme difficulties converting wu shih spell magick to western invocations.

Secondly, Reverse Chi only affects chi of your own origin.

Say my Dragon God hits Splyncryth with one million negative chi. Splyncryth has 28 positive chi points which he gets from a PE of 28 as Splyncryth doesn't has chi mastery skills.

So if Splyncryth casts Reverse Chi on himself, the biggest number of negative chi which he can convert to positive chi is only 28 max.

To purge the rest of the 999972 points of negative chi, he will have to seek a chi masters' help or purge his chi by the normal method which is dispelling 1d6 chi points per day (2d6 negative chi points with healing factor).

It is still gonna take Splyncryth at least a decade to wipe out all his one million negative Chi.

If any GM allows negative chi to be purged in the way you described then the chi mastery skills would be totally useless because it costs just a mere 2 ppe to remove negative chi damage.

Negative chi attacks are supposed to be extremely dangerous and frightening. Good luck, Splyn! You are gonna need it!

Yeah sorry but no, Reverse Chi has nothing to do with your personal chi. If you're infected with 50 negative chi and your normal positive chi is 20 and you Reverse Chi you now have 50 positive chi NOT 30 negative chi. You're also confused regarding how dangerous negative chi is and why it's supposed to be dangerous. They're supposed to be dangerous because they open you up to other problems like not being able to heal (and for most creatures since they don't have things like Healing Factor getting back to positive chi without outside help is almost impossible) or spells or chi mastery abilities that exploit that infection. Those that DO have the means though SHOULD be able to counter negative chi attacks because they aren't supposed to be unstoppable, incurable attacks.

crystaleye1950 wrote:Where does it say Healing Factor and other healing powers remove negative chi? Book and page number please?

Yeah, I got called on this a while back. It's on page 166 of N&S.

this NPC "Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God " you have created is silly, why doesnt he just sit down and learn to make rune weapons and ultra high level circle magic , as circle magic "of legend" can make an old one into something else . Id buy that a rune platform designed with a circle magic spell on a leyline nexus in a magical ley line triangle like the bermuda triangle could make an AI into a mindslave/puppet/tool of your "Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God ".
But whats the point, the only thing thats beating an old one was just about all the gods , demons, devils, and "forces of light" (read that as no slave races of the old ones). joing togeather...and then not to destroy them but to put them to sleep. your "Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God " is at that level of power and you may as well GM fiat anything you want him to do as it stands.

And for the record Splugorths are Immortal, all AI's and gods are. so they wouldnt be fooled into taking out their organs. being mortal doesnt mean something cant kill you it means you cant die from old age and illiness. it doesnt mean you cant die period. your "Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God " might be reborn if killed and eventualy regain his full knowledge and power but at the same time the things that could knock him off and force a rebirth of him would just imprsion him/her/it in some pocket diminsion that is inescapable. And dont say your dragon has D-port cuase so do the old ones and nothing is or has ever been as powerfull as them except perhapes the Forge.

There for I rule that the Forge see's your "Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God " as a threat and simply unmakes him from the time stream at the point he was created before he learned his Enlightened immortal ways.
Also it doesnt sound to Enlightened to do what you are making him do ie making slaves running crime groups and such. Why would something so powerfull give a crap about having slaves or servants and why wouldnt he use himself to be a postive force. Or heck asscened to the next level of being.
Wealth and power are pretty beneth something that has litterly lived 200 or 300k years.
its like saying I want to merge with an alien intelgence....Vald Tegor did it so there should be no reason my pc's cant do it. or odin lived throguh impaling himself on that tree....so thats how my cosmo knight, godling, juicer, rune smith, who has eaten ambrosa and is looked up by all the succubus and incubusses in the megaverse as the greatest lover of all time will learn spell magic.

to some one like a Enlightened Immortal Dimensional Elder Dragon God something as trival as money or getting an honestly lesser form of AI to work for it should be kinda beneghth him. it moves and shakes in relms of being and understanding at would be so foriegn and diffrent that its kinda like asking a greater elemental to tell you what it thinks about a van gogh painting it doesnt understand what you mean it doesnt care anymore about world possessions infact thats the point of the Enlightened Immortal charecter.


on a side note please please never talk to micheal bay as youll undoughtly help him turn anouther childhood memory of mine into pure folly and crap.