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Interdimensional battlefield vultures procuring salvage for sale...yeah, the're a little dinged up some and the bloodstains haven't been COMPLETELY cleaned from the refurbished cockpits, but they work like a charm! Available now at M'Bob's Mechanical Menagerie and Garage! Buy now while they're available!

Never run a Rifts game myself, but I can toss out a few ideas that work well for crossovers with Macross/Macross II/Robotech and whatever.

Having a fold accident either create an interdimensional rift or deposit a ship from one universe in another is perennially popular. This works best with the fold mechanics in either Macross universe, not s'much with Robotech's ersatz warp drive. Other means for creating same include botched neutron-s missile (in RT, a black hole warhead) or dimension eater (MF, a fold bomb) tests. There's also always the "ancient portal or portal network" schtick too, that can be attributed to any party's ancient and abusive precursors (Macross's Protoculture or Protodeviln, Robotech's Tirolians or Haydonites, etc.) to either escape the mess they'd made out of their own universe or forage for supplies in another universe.

In the past, my group has used the "fold accident" explanation to justify a series of cross-over events between my play-by-post Macross II game and a friend's Robotech game. Now that we're starting a Macross Frontier setting game, there'll probably be the dimension eater excuse used at least once.

I have never as a player crossed the two. As a GM I allowed for a Horizon-t shuttle and the veritech pilot escorting to be sucked through a open rift into the Rifts universe. Most the crew died leaving the Single military speicalist and Veritech pilot alive. this gave them alarge mecha and cyclones with plenty of spare parts.

I also ran a alternate Robotech universe where the Rifts and ley lines appeared on the robotech earth. And allowed them to collect additional technology, this campaign last about 7 months before we return to AD&D.

My group used 'Fold Accident' to drop both an undetermined Robotech ship into Hudson's Bay (pre-Shadow Chronicles so it was more like a Macross fold than the Star Trek warp version) and a Macross II ship (what they refered to in the RPG as a Zentraedi Flag Ship) for anyone who wanted to use gear from either series (me mostly).

The SDF-1 Fold in Ep3 is supposed to be impossible (dialogue), so the math to do it must be very complex. Could say the equations result in several possible answers and no way to control the outcome (when "out of gravity" the equations simplify down to one answer). Now if attempted you end up with Fold Duplicates (though no one knows it) from the Macross Island/SDF-1 @ 2000ft altitude Space Fold. Plenty of options for the de-fold point:
1. South Pacific (Rifts Earth)
2. Intended target (MiO Rifts Earth)
3. Deep Space/Another Star System (Phase World or MiO Rifts Earth)
4. Else where in the Robotech universe (and encounter aliens using Rfits/HU-AU equipment) for the classic encounter yourself bit of Sci-fi.

ShadowLogan wrote:The SDF-1 Fold in Ep3 is supposed to be impossible (dialogue), so the math to do it must be very complex. Could say the equations result in several possible answers and no way to control the outcome (when "out of gravity" the equations simplify down to one answer).

"Lang, you divided by zero, didn't you?"
"Ah...yes?"

taalismn wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:The SDF-1 Fold in Ep3 is supposed to be impossible (dialogue), so the math to do it must be very complex. Could say the equations result in several possible answers and no way to control the outcome (when "out of gravity" the equations simplify down to one answer).

"Lang, you divided by zero, didn't you?"
"Ah...yes?"

Carlo wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:The SDF-1 Fold in Ep3 is supposed to be impossible (dialogue), so the math to do it must be very complex. Could say the equations result in several possible answers and no way to control the outcome (when "out of gravity" the equations simplify down to one answer). Now if attempted you end up with Fold Duplicates (though no one knows it) from the Macross Island/SDF-1 @ 2000ft altitude Space Fold. Plenty of options for the de-fold point:
1. South Pacific (Rifts Earth)
2. Intended target (MiO Rifts Earth)
3. Deep Space/Another Star System (Phase World or MiO Rifts Earth)
4. Else where in the Robotech universe (and encounter aliens using Rfits/HU-AU equipment) for the classic encounter yourself bit of Sci-fi.

Ah, so if the Robotech people figure all this out, not only will they be able to achieve FTL travel, they can also be dimensional travelers?

I would say ONLY after a llllllooooonnnnngggggg testing period.

I actually put RIFTS into ROBOTECH by using the Rain of Death as causing the Rifts, so that the RDF basically takes the place of NEMA in trying to put the world right. The REF heads out to fight the Masters, but they miss each other and the Masters show up, trash the ASC, but the interaction of protoculture and the Rifts from the Rain of Death = massive dimensional shifts and warp storms (similar to WH40K)...and puts the world into the dark ages. When the REF finally returns, they find the "Coalition States" fighting off Invid, Xiticix, Spulgorth, etc. The REF basically sits in space trying to "fix" the Earth while the CS and the rest of the dirtside humans don't want their help, and there are galactic issues (3 Galaxies is the wider background for the space portion of the setting) the REF is actually more concerned with (since the majority of their fleet is actually clones or void-born and don't have much emotional impetus for actually saving Earth).

Tha's how I did it. Mostly...

-STS

Ive used the Invid departure from Earth at Reflex Point as a spring board to launch players and mecha to Rifts when the Regiss did her whole energy travel thingy.

Also, wasn't there a Southern Cross maneuver where the Tristar would actually travel to a different dimension and drag the Masters ships with it, then it would return all by itself? Who is to say what dimension that was?

Kagashi wrote:Also, wasn't there a Southern Cross maneuver where the Tristar would actually travel to a different dimension and drag the Masters ships with it, then it would return all by itself? Who is to say what dimension that was?

Orbital Warp Blast Maneuver.

Carlo wrote:Ah, so if the Robotech people figure all this out, not only will they be able to achieve FTL travel, they can also be dimensional travelers?

dimensional travel is already a part of the setting, there is the Orbital Warp blast maneuver (blasts objects into another dimension), but also hyperspace (IIRC).

taalismn wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:The SDF-1 Fold in Ep3 is supposed to be impossible (dialogue), so the math to do it must be very complex. Could say the equations result in several possible answers and no way to control the outcome (when "out of gravity" the equations simplify down to one answer).

"Lang, you divided by zero, didn't you?"
"Ah...yes?"

More like quadratic equation (or higher) than dividing by zero: "You didn't solve for all the variables did you?"

Kagashi wrote:Also, wasn't there a Southern Cross maneuver where the Tristar would actually travel to a different dimension and drag the Masters ships with it, then it would return all by itself? Who is to say what dimension that was?

Whoa...I have never heard of this before... Details? Info? This seems very interesting, in a sort of Event Horizon sort of way

-STS

Gryphon wrote:"Not True! I solved for every possible variable! That I knew of, you see..."

for a short while I played in a RiftTech game.

Where the rain of death caused the coming of the rifts.

slade the sniper wrote:

Kagashi wrote:Also, wasn't there a Southern Cross maneuver where the Tristar would actually travel to a different dimension and drag the Masters ships with it, then it would return all by itself? Who is to say what dimension that was?

Whoa...I have never heard of this before... Details? Info? This seems very interesting, in a sort of Event Horizon sort of way

It's only used once, in the Masters Saga episode "The Hunters" (#53), by General Emerson's fleet.

The explanation is mostly nonsense, but the tactic as described in the episode involves creating a "molecular vacuum" using the ship's fold drive, which should (but doesn't) break up any objects around the ship inside of a 2km radius into atoms that are then sucked into a small black hole and into another dimension. It doesn't actually work as described (black holes don't work that way anyway), and just causes all of the bioroids inside the area of effect to explode and the debris doesn't even go anywhere. The way it's talked about, it's as dangerous to the user's allies as their enemies. Not really the sort of thing that's depicted being done (ala Event Horizon) in Warhammer 40,000, where a ship that implodes or actives its warp drives too close to other ships drags everything nearby into a very literal hell.*


(For a direct, weaponized, and non-starship version of the above, there's Macross Frontier's Dimension Eater weaponry. Basically a fold bomb which creates an intense fold effect that draws everything in its area of effect on an unshielded one-way trip into super dimension space, the 10+ dimensional sub-universe folding ships travel through. As you can see, they are NASTY things. That video shows the detonation of a large one on Gallia IV... it's about the size of a family car, and it straight-up destroys the planet, with the only remains being a crescent-shaped chunk that used to be the far side of the world.)


* The most notorious example of this tactic in action was during the Battle of Macragge in the 1st Tyrannic War, when the Emperor-class battleship Dominus Astra detonated its warp drives in the middle of a Tyranid fleet near Circe, drawing itself and the entire enemy fleet into the warp. The Raven Guard battle barge Avenger used a smaller scale (non-suicidal) version of the tactic on a Word Bearers picket ship shortly after the Isstvan V dropsite massacre, drawing the enemy ship into the warp intact where its crew were all tortured to death by daemons.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:for a short while I played in a RiftTech game.

Where the rain of death caused the coming of the rifts.

Cool idea! Why have I never thought of that before?

So basically, the UEDF replaces the NEMA in their role against demonic hordes. I guess that would not stop the Masters from continuing with their plan and they show up to Earth in 2029 unopposed by the ASC (which wouldnt exist, at least not in the form we know of, might have some R&D in space based factories like Space Station Liberty, Moon Base ALuCE, and the RT Factory). Even in their weakened state, the Masters might be able to obtain the SDF-1's protoculture matrix and rebuild their empire. Very interesting. *breaks open notebook*

Or, another spin would be the Regiss' departure from Earth causes the Rifts and players can basically play mecha from any era. Cyclones and Alphas may be a better mix of mecha for survivability than 50 foot veritechs. Plus by then, personal body armor and man portable weapons would be needed.

Kagashi wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:for a short while I played in a RiftTech game.

Where the rain of death caused the coming of the rifts.

Cool idea! Why have I never thought of that before?

So basically, the UEDF replaces the NEMA in their role against demonic hordes. I guess that would not stop the Masters from continuing with their plan and they show up to Earth in 2029 unopposed by the ASC (which wouldn't exist, at least not in the form we know of, might have some R&D in space based factories like Space Station Liberty, Moon Base ALuCE, and the RT Factory). Even in their weakened state, the Masters might be able to obtain the SDF-1's protoculture matrix and rebuild their empire. Very interesting. *breaks open notebook*

Or, another spin would be the Regis' departure from Earth causes the Rifts and players can basically play mecha from any era. Cyclones and Alphas may be a better mix of mecha for survivability than 50 foot veritechs. Plus by then, personal body armor and man portable weapons would be needed.

The GM was using 1st ed RT so it was the RDF when I was playing.
Azonia was 'president' of the new lunar nation, encompassing the whole moon. Having a mostly zent population.
And using all the sourcebooks at some point.

There is technically no need for a convoluted back story...
IIRC Phaseworld states that there are multiple worlds with humans called "Earth."

I just put RT in an "out of the way" arm of one of the 3 Galaxies.

Loving all the ideals!

If you wanted a different kind of campaign totally, well, when the Regis launched with the energy phoenix, wasn't something mentioned about other dimensions and planes of existence? Maybe a few of them at least crashed there. Be fun to try to figure their way out of Rifts, it's a whole new whopper of a problem for them, I'd think.

AuroraKet wrote:If you wanted a different kind of campaign totally, well, when the Regis launched with the energy phoenix, wasn't something mentioned about other dimensions and planes of existence? Maybe a few of them at least crashed there. Be fun to try to figure their way out of Rifts, it's a whole new whopper of a problem for them, I'd think.

Yep, when the Regess legged it at the end of the New Generation she mentioned consuming all of the protoculture to rise to a higher plane.

Yeah, thats something that has bothered me about the Regiss' and Aeriel's conversation in Symphony. In one sentence, the Regiss says that this is the world where the Flower of Life grew, so this is where they would stay, then only moments later, she felt another world "calling out to her" and she leaves to go to that world. What is to say she simply didnt dimension hop to another Earth in her rising to a higher plane? One where the Children of the Shadows have not influenced anybody.

Kagashi wrote:Yeah, thats something that has bothered me about the Regiss' and Aeriel's conversation in Symphony. In one sentence, the Regiss says that this is the world where the Flower of Life grew, so this is where they would stay, then only moments later, she felt another world "calling out to her" and she leaves to go to that world. What is to say she simply didnt dimension hop to another Earth in her rising to a higher plane? One where the Children of the Shadows have not influenced anybody.

And some 20th century Earth whose residents have discovered strange flowers sprouting up all over get the shock of their lives one day soon after...
(and no, we're not talking -Invasion of the Body Snatchers-)

Kagashi wrote:Yeah, thats something that has bothered me about the Regiss' and Aeriel's conversation in Symphony. In one sentence, the Regiss says that this is the world where the Flower of Life grew, so this is where they would stay, then only moments later, she felt another world "calling out to her" and she leaves to go to that world. What is to say she simply didnt dimension hop to another Earth in her rising to a higher plane? One where the Children of the Shadows have not influenced anybody.

This would be a great plot device. Maybe she has been seeding several earth Dimensions and one of them is ready and secure enough to travel to. Perhaps the earth in that dimension is totally lacking in technology. (not a very fun RPG experience) or perhaps in the moment of realization that the humans would sacrofice thier home world to a massive black hole she realized the other Dimension was the safer choice.

Lt Gargoyle wrote:

Kagashi wrote:Yeah, thats something that has bothered me about the Regiss' and Aeriel's conversation in Symphony. In one sentence, the Regiss says that this is the world where the Flower of Life grew, so this is where they would stay, then only moments later, she felt another world "calling out to her" and she leaves to go to that world. What is to say she simply didnt dimension hop to another Earth in her rising to a higher plane? One where the Children of the Shadows have not influenced anybody.

This would be a great plot device. Maybe she has been seeding several earth Dimensions and one of them is ready and secure enough to travel to. Perhaps the earth in that dimension is totally lacking in technology. (not a very fun RPG experience) or perhaps in the moment of realization that the humans would sacrofice thier home world to a massive black hole she realized the other Dimension was the safer choice.

What if that Earth was totally DOMINATED by technology and there was a nanobot disease that brought all tech to life and attacked organic matter? How would the Invid fair in Splicers? The Regiss would have to develop some pretty quick Genesis Pit upgrades to continue to survive there.

I imagine that the Regsis could turn the invid into bio creatures. But sadly i do not have splicers books so i cannot say anything on that system.

Gryphon wrote:The Invid tech base is already Biotic in nature, right? She would actually fare the best of everyone, and its possible that in such a setting, an alliance between the evolved Invid, at their Queen Mother's behest, could be what save humanity, rather than the development of Guyver like bio-technology instead.

Basically, take the technology we know they have, add a dash of the design theories that worked to well for the UEEF, and then adapt the weapons technology from the Splicer's setting, and voila, instant new setting, evil technology gone bad versus human/alien hybrid biotech defenders. RCBs that transform into fighter craft, Enforcer/Soldier power suits that turn into hover cyclones, manned Inorganic/Destroid/Battloid hybrids that literally mesh with their pilots, suspending them in a nutrient bath and subverting their motor functions to run their mecha instead while they sit curled up in a fetal position in the most heavily armored parts of their mecha.

Plus the Invids' mastery of Protoculture provides a control over their tempermental human allies.

Wouldn't take long, however, before the Machine realizes the newcomers are dependent on the new alien Flower and start defoliating, but that would cause a civil war as the nature- aspects of NEXUS protest it(though Gaia might initially view the Invid Flower as an invasive alien species....at least until she sees how it rejuvenates damaged soils, at which point she wants it to survive at least for a while). Machine efforts to destroy the Flower place a new urgency for the Invid to destroy the Machine and quickly.

taalismn wrote:

Kagashi wrote:Yeah, thats something that has bothered me about the Regiss' and Aeriel's conversation in Symphony. In one sentence, the Regiss says that this is the world where the Flower of Life grew, so this is where they would stay, then only moments later, she felt another world "calling out to her" and she leaves to go to that world. What is to say she simply didnt dimension hop to another Earth in her rising to a higher plane? One where the Children of the Shadows have not influenced anybody.

And some 20th century Earth whose residents have discovered strange flowers sprouting up all over get the shock of their lives one day soon after...
(and no, we're not talking -Invasion of the Body Snatchers-)

taalismn wrote:

Gryphon wrote:The Invid tech base is already Biotic in nature, right? She would actually fare the best of everyone, and its possible that in such a setting, an alliance between the evolved Invid, at their Queen Mother's behest, could be what save humanity, rather than the development of Guyver like bio-technology instead.

Basically, take the technology we know they have, add a dash of the design theories that worked to well for the UEEF, and then adapt the weapons technology from the Splicer's setting, and voila, instant new setting, evil technology gone bad versus human/alien hybrid biotech defenders. RCBs that transform into fighter craft, Enforcer/Soldier power suits that turn into hover cyclones, manned Inorganic/Destroid/Battloid hybrids that literally mesh with their pilots, suspending them in a nutrient bath and subverting their motor functions to run their mecha instead while they sit curled up in a fetal position in the most heavily armored parts of their mecha.

Plus the Invids' mastery of Protoculture provides a control over their tempermental human allies.

Wouldn't take long, however, before the Machine realizes the newcomers are dependent on the new alien Flower and start defoliating, but that would cause a civil war as the nature- aspects of NEXUS protest it(though Gaia might initially view the Invid Flower as an invasive alien species....at least until she sees how it rejuvenates damaged soils, at which point she wants it to survive at least for a while). Machine efforts to destroy the Flower place a new urgency for the Invid to destroy the Machine and quickly.

This sounds really cool.

I regard the Flower of Life as effectively proof against chemical and biological defoliation....you gotta PHYSICALLY burn or uproot the plant to kill it. NO easy kill, even for the Machine.

taalismn wrote:I regard the Flower of Life as effectively proof against chemical and biological defoliation....you gotta PHYSICALLY burn or uproot the plant to kill it. NO easy kill, even for the Machine.

napalm.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

taalismn wrote:I regard the Flower of Life as effectively proof against chemical and biological defoliation....you gotta PHYSICALLY burn or uproot the plant to kill it. NO easy kill, even for the Machine.

napalm.

That's why they lost... Invid don't surf.

Question: Most people usually bring elements of Robotech into their Rifts games. It has been suggested in this thread that you can have the Rifts erupt on Robotech Earth (which I still think is a brilliant idea and still kicking myself for not thinking of it after 20 years of palladium games...).

For those who have run it already, how did you deal with magic, psionics, and the supernatural? Did you allow the Robotech characters to be able to learn how to start wield magic spells and develop psionics? Did you do any converting for psionic and magic races already in the Robotech world? How about Techno Wizardry? Seems to be a "no duh" for Robotech scientists to consider using magic as a source of power (once they figured out how to control it). How did you deal with the mechanics?

Played an REF Veritech Hovertank driver in a Rifts game my first year in college (well, after my Wilderness Scout got fried by a group of Skelebots). Can't remember the exact details, but I think something went wrong with some kind of experiment on the planet I was stationed on. One minute, I'm on patrol, hovering to get home to base, the next I'm in North America on Rifts Earth. We actually had a few Robotech characters ultimately in that game: myself, one of my fraternity brothers (Super Valkyrie), plus a Destroid Operator and Praxian Amazon Warrior who were in a MAC II Monster (that ended up getting an FAE dropped on it).

Kagashi wrote:Question: Most people usually bring elements of Robotech into their Rifts games. It has been suggested in this thread that you can have the Rifts erupt on Robotech Earth (which I still think is a brilliant idea and still kicking myself for not thinking of it after 20 years of palladium games...).

For those who have run it already, how did you deal with magic, psionics, and the supernatural? Did you allow the Robotech characters to be able to learn how to start wield magic spells and develop psionics? Did you do any converting for psionic and magic races already in the Robotech world? How about Techno Wizardry? Seems to be a "no duh" for Robotech scientists to consider using magic as a source of power (once they figured out how to control it). How did you deal with the mechanics?

I wrote up a REF pyshic OCC, as it was a newly aquired to them. They had science teams studying the Rifts and constant patrols to make sure if something came out of them they would be friendly. I used the Preytons and Garudians to help to teach some of the focus needed to channel the energy. I did not creat a magic user as no one wanted to play one. I just used magic and Psionics right out the the RMB. the Robotech Engineers went crazy with giddyness with all the stuff that would appear.

Cool thanks for the ideas guys.

Im thinking the year will be 2045, a year after Reflex Point. After the Regiss' departure, destruction of most of the UEEF fleet caused the PPE chain reaction that caused the Great Cataclysm on Rifts Earth. Thing is, it would be less severe on Robotech Earth because of the lack of people compared to Pre-Rifts Earth, so Post-Rifts Robotech Earth would not quite be so "Chaos Earth-like", but would still have demons spawning across the globe. Do not forget, the Haydonite fleet is on Earths doorstep, so the UEEF has to deal not only with demons on the planet, but the Haydonites in space. (I will likely borrow Mechanoid designs to augment the Haydonites due to a lack of source material on the Haydonites themselves)

If the characters want to, I will allow them the option to develop mystic or psychic powers, making them a level 1 mystic/psychic, but keeping their Robotech skill set frozen at whatever level they were at in 2044. Once they have leveled their mystic/psychic abilities to the same level the were with their Robotech OCC, they run concurrently so supernatural abilities and conventional skills are in synch. I will also allow Warlocks and other intuitive magic, but traditional learning magicks would be impossible after only a year's time.

For those who do not want to go that route and continue to embrace their technological ways, fear not, I will give them a rare, even fan made, mecha or piece of equipment. So you wanna play that Shadow Dancer Cyclone from Robotech Invasion, its all yours. Alternatively, players may opt to be in possession of a magic item like a rune weapon.

OCCS and mecha can be virtually anything from any era. Will even allow Invid Genetic/Cybernetic experiments and Invid Princes and Princesses who stayed behind. Players will need as much versatility as possible to survive.

Kagashi wrote:For those who do not want to go that route and continue to embrace their technological ways, fear not, I will give them a rare, even fan made, mecha or piece of equipment. So you wanna play that Shadow Dancer Cyclone from Robotech Invasion, its all yours. Alternatively, players may opt to be in possession of a magic item like a rune weapon.

Just a question, from someone who's run into this issue before... when you're running a multi-series crossover and you allow players to have a custom, fan-made mecha, how do you enforce balance on it? I've had a couple problematic situations on the occasions I've done crossovers with Robotech in my Macross II game with the Robotech players insisting on bizarre, over-the-top customizations and getting mad when I refuse on the grounds that they'd break the game.

slade the sniper wrote:

Kagashi wrote:Also, wasn't there a Southern Cross maneuver where the Tristar would actually travel to a different dimension and drag the Masters ships with it, then it would return all by itself? Who is to say what dimension that was?

Whoa...I have never heard of this before... Details? Info? This seems very interesting, in a sort of Event Horizon sort of way

I've seen it called an "orbital warp blast"; there's a description in the page for episode 53 in the Robotech "Infopedia."

Kagashi wrote:If the characters want to, I will allow them the option to develop mystic or psychic powers, making them a level 1 mystic/psychic, but keeping their Robotech skill set frozen at whatever level they were at in 2044. Once they have leveled their mystic/psychic abilities to the same level the were with their Robotech OCC, they run concurrently so supernatural abilities and conventional skills are in synch. I will also allow Warlocks and other intuitive magic, but traditional learning magicks would be impossible after only a year's time.

I've come to believe Palladium's fixed class system does a poor job simulating character development in rapidly-changing settings like Robotech. (In Macek's original notes, Rick Hunter learned mind-control from Learna....)

ESalter wrote:I've come to believe Palladium's fixed class system does a poor job simulating character development in rapidly-changing settings like Robotech. (In Macek's original notes, Rick Hunter learned mind-control from Learna....)

this is true.

At Kagashi - I would limit the amount of magical items and custom stuff. have the PCs discover magic items from travelers from other worlds.

Seto Kaiba wrote:

Kagashi wrote:For those who do not want to go that route and continue to embrace their technological ways, fear not, I will give them a rare, even fan made, mecha or piece of equipment. So you wanna play that Shadow Dancer Cyclone from Robotech Invasion, its all yours. Alternatively, players may opt to be in possession of a magic item like a rune weapon.

Just a question, from someone who's run into this issue before... when you're running a multi-series crossover and you allow players to have a custom, fan-made mecha, how do you enforce balance on it? I've had a couple problematic situations on the occasions I've done crossovers with Robotech in my Macross II game with the Robotech players insisting on bizarre, over-the-top customizations and getting mad when I refuse on the grounds that they'd break the game.

As the GM its his job, if it does not work, have a scott missile attack take the mecha out, or heck 10 deamons seem to think that particular character is a tasty snack. allow the pc a fair chance to escape, but say good bye to the mecha unit. Or it could just simply break down and there are no spare parts for it anywhere. And dam the mechanic friend who custom builds them wants millions or some random treasure before he does the work. Heck that there could be a year of adventures right there.

Seto Kaiba wrote:

Kagashi wrote:For those who do not want to go that route and continue to embrace their technological ways, fear not, I will give them a rare, even fan made, mecha or piece of equipment. So you wanna play that Shadow Dancer Cyclone from Robotech Invasion, its all yours. Alternatively, players may opt to be in possession of a magic item like a rune weapon.

Just a question, from someone who's run into this issue before... when you're running a multi-series crossover and you allow players to have a custom, fan-made mecha, how do you enforce balance on it? I've had a couple problematic situations on the occasions I've done crossovers with Robotech in my Macross II game with the Robotech players insisting on bizarre, over-the-top customizations and getting mad when I refuse on the grounds that they'd break the game.

Standing firm and telling the player it is your world. You allow the Players access but they agreed (when they accepted you as GM) to play by your rules.

When I get presented with home brew mechs, classes, or races... I will read the thing thoroughly and instead of out right disallowing it I will adjust it (reduce damage of weapons/powers, add limits to usage, etc... But I never remove any of the powers, weps, etc...) if the player refuses to accept these changes he is pointed to the core book and told
"you have three options...
One: Play the Home Brew with the adjustments that allow it to fit my vision of the game world
Two: choose a core class
Three: Leave"
No one has ever chosen option three.

Lt Gargoyle wrote:

ESalter wrote:I've come to believe Palladium's fixed class system does a poor job simulating character development in rapidly-changing settings like Robotech. (In Macek's original notes, Rick Hunter learned mind-control from Learna....)

this is true.

At Kagashi - I would limit the amount of magical items and custom stuff. have the PCs discover magic items from travelers from other worlds.

I will start out people who dont have a regular OCC plus burster, mystic, or warlock powers with something special. Otherwise, why play RiftTech? Just play Robotech. Of course, if a player CHOOSES to limit himself, I encourage the challenge as long as the player thinks he will have fun.

Seto Kaiba wrote:

Kagashi wrote:For those who do not want to go that route and continue to embrace their technological ways, fear not, I will give them a rare, even fan made, mecha or piece of equipment. So you wanna play that Shadow Dancer Cyclone from Robotech Invasion, its all yours. Alternatively, players may opt to be in possession of a magic item like a rune weapon.

Just a question, from someone who's run into this issue before... when you're running a multi-series crossover and you allow players to have a custom, fan-made mecha, how do you enforce balance on it? I've had a couple problematic situations on the occasions I've done crossovers with Robotech in my Macross II game with the Robotech players insisting on bizarre, over-the-top customizations and getting mad when I refuse on the grounds that they'd break the game.

As the GM its his job, if it does not work, have a scott missile attack take the mecha out, or heck 10 deamons seem to think that particular character is a tasty snack. allow the pc a fair chance to escape, but say good bye to the mecha unit. Or it could just simply break down and there are no spare parts for it anywhere. And dam the mechanic friend who custom builds them wants millions or some random treasure before he does the work. Heck that there could be a year of adventures right there.

A few things about those who have played with me in the past:

1) I really dont worry about balance in terms of raw power, MDC, damage, and capability. I tend to run high powered campaigns anyway. Balance is in the player's mind. Players who choose to run around in Plastic Man armor and a wilks laser pistol have just as much fun as the Techno Wizard Adult Dragon if played right.
2) I have no problem saying no to something. Players can complain, some may flake. But there are 2 people who want to play for ever 1 who quits.
3) Before the player starts out, the idea must pass through me. For a few reasons, but the main one being so I know how to run the game for the player.
4) I dont tend to say no very often. I encourage characters and concepts most people are too afraid to say yes to. I want players to say, "I got a chance to play THIS." I will say no to something if it doesnt make sense though. For example, if the player really wanted to play a Glitter Boy in this RiftTech game, Id let him, but it would be a single experimental suit. Everybody else will be stuck with standard Robotech gear.
5) If the players have something unique and powerful, you better believe NPCs may have something similarly unique and just as powerful.

The something special can be a Shadow Dancer or Devastator Cyclone from the Robotech Invasion game, a Sun Chariot as an experimental cyclone, or perhaps something from the Macross II game. These things are not necessarily more powerful, but they are unique compared to the other player's gear. The player and I may tweak the stats as if it had been worked on prior to the cataclysm. I guess THAT is where the balance comes in. Cause player X not only has an Alpha and a Cyclone, but he also has Mind Melter abilities. Player Y is the same OCC and has a Delta Fighter and a Sun Chariot "Cyclone". Player Z is running around in his Super Cyclone and wielding a Sword of Atlantis.

Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. I know from a high powered monster game that Major Elementals are way too powerful for players to use, even though the player ran it extremely well. I just couldnt threaten him with anything in the game. So I learn from my experience and dont allow that in future monster games. But you never really know about something till you try the idea out.

Kagashi wrote:

Lt Gargoyle wrote:

ESalter wrote:I've come to believe Palladium's fixed class system does a poor job simulating character development in rapidly-changing settings like Robotech. (In Macek's original notes, Rick Hunter learned mind-control from Learna....)

this is true.

At Kagashi - I would limit the amount of magical items and custom stuff. have the PCs discover magic items from travelers from other worlds.

I will start out people who dont have a regular OCC plus burster, mystic, or warlock powers with something special. Otherwise, why play RiftTech? Just play Robotech. Of course, if a player CHOOSES to limit himself, I encourage the challenge as long as the player thinks he will have fun.

Seto Kaiba wrote:

Kagashi wrote:For those who do not want to go that route and continue to embrace their technological ways, fear not, I will give them a rare, even fan made, mecha or piece of equipment. So you wanna play that Shadow Dancer Cyclone from Robotech Invasion, its all yours. Alternatively, players may opt to be in possession of a magic item like a rune weapon.

Just a question, from someone who's run into this issue before... when you're running a multi-series crossover and you allow players to have a custom, fan-made mecha, how do you enforce balance on it? I've had a couple problematic situations on the occasions I've done crossovers with Robotech in my Macross II game with the Robotech players insisting on bizarre, over-the-top customizations and getting mad when I refuse on the grounds that they'd break the game.

As the GM its his job, if it does not work, have a scott missile attack take the mecha out, or heck 10 deamons seem to think that particular character is a tasty snack. allow the pc a fair chance to escape, but say good bye to the mecha unit. Or it could just simply break down and there are no spare parts for it anywhere. And dam the mechanic friend who custom builds them wants millions or some random treasure before he does the work. Heck that there could be a year of adventures right there.

A few things about those who have played with me in the past:

1) I really dont worry about balance in terms of raw power, MDC, damage, and capability. I tend to run high powered campaigns anyway. Balance is in the player's mind. Players who choose to run around in Plastic Man armor and a wilks laser pistol have just as much fun as the Techno Wizard Adult Dragon if played right.
2) I have no problem saying no to something. Players can complain, some may flake. But there are 2 people who want to play for ever 1 who quits.
3) Before the player starts out, the idea must pass through me. For a few reasons, but the main one being so I know how to run the game for the player.
4) I dont tend to say no very often. I encourage characters and concepts most people are too afraid to say yes to. I want players to say, "I got a chance to play THIS." I will say no to something if it doesnt make sense though. For example, if the player really wanted to play a Glitter Boy in this RiftTech game, Id let him, but it would be a single experimental suit. Everybody else will be stuck with standard Robotech gear.
5) If the players have something unique and powerful, you better believe NPCs may have something similarly unique and just as powerful.

The something special can be a Shadow Dancer or Devastator Cyclone from the Robotech Invasion game, a Sun Chariot as an experimental cyclone, or perhaps something from the Macross II game. These things are not necessarily more powerful, but they are unique compared to the other player's gear. The player and I may tweak the stats as if it had been worked on prior to the cataclysm. I guess THAT is where the balance comes in. Cause player X not only has an Alpha and a Cyclone, but he also has Mind Melter abilities. Player Y is the same OCC and has a Delta Fighter and a Sun Chariot "Cyclone". Player Z is running around in his Super Cyclone and wielding a Sword of Atlantis.

Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. I know from a high powered monster game that Major Elementals are way too powerful for players to use, even though the player ran it extremely well. I just couldnt threaten him with anything in the game. So I learn from my experience and dont allow that in future monster games. But you never really know about something till you try the idea out.

I would love to be in on one of your games. Though I would try for something out of Third Invid War.

Gryphon wrote:Presuming the guy in Plastic Man who is carrying a Wilks Light Laser is hiding behind the TW Adult Dragon, maybe...and then only if he has a point other than combat of course.

I actually had a player who slipped one by me, and didn't intend to. He was playing a tech of some sort, and he used a suit of Flying Titan. He kept tinkering with it, and over a period of like eight or ten game he modified the lasers for light pulse duty, mounted several heavy ion blasters to the left arm, and then started carrying a borg rail gun. that's all fine of course, but then around game eight, he asks me innocently enough if he can link fire his weapons, and I agreed.

Only I forgot he had a pair of 2D6/6D6 pulse lasers, a 6D6 per burst railgun, and a pair of 1D4x10 ion guns on his mecha...in addition to a dozen minis, which he never used. We start a fight during game nine or ten, and he hits for a critical on a SAMAS, and totally frags the poor bastard, flash frying the pilot and spreading mecha bits all over the place. I sort of went into a fugue state while I tried to figure this one out...18D6 + 2D4x10, means that the damage was well within his grasp, and I gave it the go ahead every step, I just didn't put all the pieces together.

Moral of the story, personalized mecha can be taken way to far, way to fast really, be very careful you know about all the pieces of the puzzle before you agree to let a player put it together!

And a shadow Dancer or Devastator aren't nearly so overpowered in Rifts really, depending on how you stat them out of course.

Sorry, just got to laugh at that.