Forums of the Megaverse®

RedRaider wrote:Hi Everyone,

I'd like to do a little community brainstorming (with anyone interested) on the subject of RIFTS-inspired videogames. I know most Rifts fans would much prefer a MMORPG or even a standalone RPG videogame, but given the enormous expense and manpower required for such games, perhaps a smaller and more manageable non-RPG-style game would be good for introducing RIFTS to a wider audience of gamers. Depending on its success, this might open the door for the possibility of RPG games further down the line.

How open would you guys and gals be to a Third Person Shooter (TPS) in the style of Gears of War? More specifically, in the interest of keeping it scaled down to a viable first project, what if it were a pure PvP game (ie. no campaign, just online play, but with XP, some selection/progression of skills/abilities, equipment selection, etc)? It's been almost 20 years since I last played Rifts regularly, but intense combat was always a big part of the sessions I played and GM'd. I think the brutality of the RIFTS setting, combined with the rich diversity of character types would make for a pretty awesome shooter videogame experience.

Also, I'd be interesting in knowing what factions and classes would generate the most excitement. To keep things viable for a first game, I'd recommend selecting two factions (ie. teams in PvP) that would include 3-4 classes that represent a decent amount of variety in terms of potential gameplay and which serve as a good, solid introduction to the core of the RIFTS setting. Something like maybe the following:

FACTION 1: COALITION
- Grunt
- Psi-Stalker
- Psi-Hound
- Borg

FACTION 2: TOLKEEN
- Cyber-Knight
- Techno Wizard
- Ley Line Walker
- Burster

I'm sure there are a ton of interesting classes from books that have come out in the years since I actively played RIFTS, but I think it important that the first introduction for newcomers should be something cohesive and easily understandable (which I think the main book did well, at least for me back in the day). Depending on the success of such a game, perhaps more classes/settings could be introduced later.

For anyone wondering what the point of this is, first and foremost it's an exercise in wishful thinking. Despite not having played RIFTS for a long time, my collection of books has traveled around the world with me for the last 15-20 years, and I still often dip into them to reminisce and for inspiration. Although an RPG videogame would be great, I know that if I were to see a RIFTS-based TPS I would snap it up in a heartbeat. As it happens, I am also a Game Designer and videogame developer with experience in the TPS market, but I mention this more as a side-note to explain my interest in this, rather than as any kind of promise to follow this up. Don't get me wrong, if I had the money and it were up to me, I'd already be pitching this to Palladium!

So for now, it's just a (hopefully) fun discussion and a bit of brainstorming. Any comments?

Kind regards,
RedRaider

Johnnycat93 wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:

RedRaider wrote:Hi Everyone,

I'd like to do a little community brainstorming (with anyone interested) on the subject of RIFTS-inspired videogames. I know most Rifts fans would much prefer a MMORPG or even a standalone RPG videogame, but given the enormous expense and manpower required for such games, perhaps a smaller and more manageable non-RPG-style game would be good for introducing RIFTS to a wider audience of gamers. Depending on its success, this might open the door for the possibility of RPG games further down the line.

How open would you guys and gals be to a Third Person Shooter (TPS) in the style of Gears of War? More specifically, in the interest of keeping it scaled down to a viable first project, what if it were a pure PvP game (ie. no campaign, just online play, but with XP, some selection/progression of skills/abilities, equipment selection, etc)? It's been almost 20 years since I last played Rifts regularly, but intense combat was always a big part of the sessions I played and GM'd. I think the brutality of the RIFTS setting, combined with the rich diversity of character types would make for a pretty awesome shooter videogame experience.

Also, I'd be interesting in knowing what factions and classes would generate the most excitement. To keep things viable for a first game, I'd recommend selecting two factions (ie. teams in PvP) that would include 3-4 classes that represent a decent amount of variety in terms of potential gameplay and which serve as a good, solid introduction to the core of the RIFTS setting. Something like maybe the following:

FACTION 1: COALITION
- Grunt
- Psi-Stalker
- Psi-Hound
- Borg

FACTION 2: TOLKEEN
- Cyber-Knight
- Techno Wizard
- Ley Line Walker
- Burster

I'm sure there are a ton of interesting classes from books that have come out in the years since I actively played RIFTS, but I think it important that the first introduction for newcomers should be something cohesive and easily understandable (which I think the main book did well, at least for me back in the day). Depending on the success of such a game, perhaps more classes/settings could be introduced later.

For anyone wondering what the point of this is, first and foremost it's an exercise in wishful thinking. Despite not having played RIFTS for a long time, my collection of books has traveled around the world with me for the last 15-20 years, and I still often dip into them to reminisce and for inspiration. Although an RPG videogame would be great, I know that if I were to see a RIFTS-based TPS I would snap it up in a heartbeat. As it happens, I am also a Game Designer and videogame developer with experience in the TPS market, but I mention this more as a side-note to explain my interest in this, rather than as any kind of promise to follow this up. Don't get me wrong, if I had the money and it were up to me, I'd already be pitching this to Palladium!

So for now, it's just a (hopefully) fun discussion and a bit of brainstorming. Any comments?

Kind regards,
RedRaider

Umm i think a RPG tried a project like that and it bombed horibly it was called shadow run. I do not think what makes rifts great whould translate into a First person shooter with any less effort than a full blown stand alone rpg. If you just use a existing engine and slap on skins it will come across as forced or untrue.

Pretty sure shadowrun wasn't to great in the first place but that's neither here nor there.

Blue_Lion wrote:Actualy it has been one of the top names in RPGs for a long time. Setting wise it should have lended better to a first person shooter. The tradional big names (in no special order) of RPGs are D&D, rifts, shadow run, and Vampire. Most gamers that have been around for over 10 years of playing even off and on have played at least 2 of those names. It is not game that every one likes but it is one of the big names in gaming.

Kagashi wrote:I'd rather see a FIRST person shooter.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Anyone who thinks Rifts couldnt be a good RPG-Shooter needs to play Bordlerlands.

It basically IS Rifts the shooter. Smilar design aesthetic, lots of options, etc. Gearbos could make a game similar to Borderlands out of Rifts and it would sell millions of copies.

Akashic Soldier wrote:You want three major factions...

Coalition States (Skelebot; or guy that uses/maintains skelebots as sort of mobile turrets, Grunt, Samas, Commando, Scout)

Tolkeen (though I'd prefer to see another magic using organization personally)

Mercenaries (Juicers, D-Bees, Borgs, and Crazies)

Subjugator wrote:Fallout 3 absolutely BEGS to be turned into Rifts.

Just sayin'.

/Sub

Blue_Lion wrote:

RedRaider wrote:Hi Everyone,

I'd like to do a little community brainstorming (with anyone interested) on the subject of RIFTS-inspired videogames. I know most Rifts fans would much prefer a MMORPG or even a standalone RPG videogame, but given the enormous expense and manpower required for such games, perhaps a smaller and more manageable non-RPG-style game would be good for introducing RIFTS to a wider audience of gamers. Depending on its success, this might open the door for the possibility of RPG games further down the line.

How open would you guys and gals be to a Third Person Shooter (TPS) in the style of Gears of War? More specifically, in the interest of keeping it scaled down to a viable first project, what if it were a pure PvP game (ie. no campaign, just online play, but with XP, some selection/progression of skills/abilities, equipment selection, etc)? It's been almost 20 years since I last played Rifts regularly, but intense combat was always a big part of the sessions I played and GM'd. I think the brutality of the RIFTS setting, combined with the rich diversity of character types would make for a pretty awesome shooter videogame experience.

Also, I'd be interesting in knowing what factions and classes would generate the most excitement. To keep things viable for a first game, I'd recommend selecting two factions (ie. teams in PvP) that would include 3-4 classes that represent a decent amount of variety in terms of potential gameplay and which serve as a good, solid introduction to the core of the RIFTS setting. Something like maybe the following:

FACTION 1: COALITION
- Grunt
- Psi-Stalker
- Psi-Hound
- Borg

FACTION 2: TOLKEEN
- Cyber-Knight
- Techno Wizard
- Ley Line Walker
- Burster

I'm sure there are a ton of interesting classes from books that have come out in the years since I actively played RIFTS, but I think it important that the first introduction for newcomers should be something cohesive and easily understandable (which I think the main book did well, at least for me back in the day). Depending on the success of such a game, perhaps more classes/settings could be introduced later.

For anyone wondering what the point of this is, first and foremost it's an exercise in wishful thinking. Despite not having played RIFTS for a long time, my collection of books has traveled around the world with me for the last 15-20 years, and I still often dip into them to reminisce and for inspiration. Although an RPG videogame would be great, I know that if I were to see a RIFTS-based TPS I would snap it up in a heartbeat. As it happens, I am also a Game Designer and videogame developer with experience in the TPS market, but I mention this more as a side-note to explain my interest in this, rather than as any kind of promise to follow this up. Don't get me wrong, if I had the money and it were up to me, I'd already be pitching this to Palladium!

So for now, it's just a (hopefully) fun discussion and a bit of brainstorming. Any comments?

Kind regards,
RedRaider

Umm i think a RPG tried a project like that and it bombed horibly it was called shadow run. I do not think what makes rifts great whould translate into a First person shooter with any less effort than a full blown stand alone rpg. If you just use a existing engine and slap on skins it will come across as forced or untrue.

You are also just making it magic vs cs there was more in tolkeen than just magic and psi- think a head hunter instead of a cyber knight. The burster could realy go both ways also not shure how well magic mechanics of dozen or more spells will afect the mechanics.

cornholioprime wrote:

Kagashi wrote:I'd rather see a FIRST person shooter.

You know the difference between the two is largely cosmetic, right?

(In a so-called Third Person Shooter, you see the whole body [e.g., Dead Space]. In a First Person Shooter, you see only your hands and weapon; if he came to me and INSISTED on making a Shooter instead of any other type of game, then I would advise him to make it 3rd Person as stated in the OP.)

cornholioprime wrote:

Subjugator wrote:Fallout 3 absolutely BEGS to be turned into Rifts.

Just sayin'.

/Sub

Oh, don't get me wrong -the very first time that I saw Fallout 3 (the only Fallout in the series that I have ever yet seen, by the way), I thought of Rifts (except Magic is missing from the setting).

But then again, "Fallout 3" isn't really a Shooter; it's a lot closer to ES: Skyirm than it is to any true Shooter.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Anyone who thinks Rifts couldnt be a good RPG-Shooter needs to play Bordlerlands. It basically IS Rifts the shooter.

SAMASzero wrote:My $200.02:

I agree that a 3rd-person Shooter/RPG hybrid would be best.

No, I don't think you can make an exact "copy the RPG mechanics to the screen" adaptation. I also don't think you should. The idea is not to put Rifts the game into Videogame format, but Rifts the setting.

The idea of factions can be used two ways: Singleplayer (different campaigns or different perspectives on the same one) and Multiplayer (obvious). There would be a fair amount of overlap in stuff like stats and skills, with the main difference being what weapons are readily available. So you could be a Coalition RPA or a Tolkien/Merc/Independent Robot Pilot, with the CS trooper starting with a Death's Head and the Merc having a Redwing or Flying Titan. Other classes would have access to jetpacks, (hover)bikes and various natural, robotic, magical or monstrous mounts.

Weapons would be "set" to each faction, but I think it would be nice to have a way to "steal" weapons belonging to other factions. The one that immediately comes to mind is probably the most direct: Let players pick up weapons from fallen enemies or placed around the level: If you end a multiplayer match carrying a weapon outside your usual armory, you have the option of "Keeping" it into the next one. when a single weapon type is Kept enough times (overall, not concurrently), you can choose to add to your personal armory permanently.

Cyber-Knight (and Juicer, etc) Auto-dodging abilities can be done with a kind of early-warning system that alerts the player when they are being targeted(and where from) and/or a dodge system like the one in Kid Icarus: Uprising.

cornholioprime wrote:

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Anyone who thinks Rifts couldnt be a good RPG-Shooter needs to play Bordlerlands.

It basically IS Rifts the shooter. Smilar design aesthetic, lots of options, etc. Gearbos could make a game similar to Borderlands out of Rifts and it would sell millions of copies.

Played "Borderlands."

And have to disagree that Mages AND Coalition Armor AND Psychics AND D-Bees would port over to such a format; in a Shooter, the characters have different strengths and weaknesses and capabilities, but are largely balanced out overall; IMO much of the flavor of Rifts would be lost in a Rifts Shooter if the same "basically balanced" mechanic was carried over.

SAMASzero wrote:No, I don't think you can make an exact "copy the RPG mechanics to the screen" adaptation. I also don't think you should. The idea is not to put Rifts the game into Videogame format, but Rifts the setting.

Kagashi wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

Kagashi wrote:I'd rather see a FIRST person shooter.

You know the difference between the two is largely cosmetic, right?

(In a so-called Third Person Shooter, you see the whole body [e.g., Dead Space]. In a First Person Shooter, you see only your hands and weapon; if he came to me and INSISTED on making a Shooter instead of any other type of game, then I would advise him to make it 3rd Person as stated in the OP.)

Yeah. I would much rather see it in first person. You get more out of the game. Many times, I think the character gets in the way of what I should be seeing in third person games.

Anyway, should you be flying a SAMAS, it makes HUDs make more sense in first person than third person.

Damian Magecraft wrote:I prefer 3rd person shooters.
Why?
1. many shooters offer armor mods (that supposedly alter the appearance and function of the armor) whats the point of having these in a 1st person? I dont get to see said appearance (except at the load/equipment screen)
2. If I am playing a Glitterboy I want to see the PA in action not see through its HUD.

Shark_Force wrote:the problem with single-player is that you need to make the AI work.

now, assuming it's just a mod, i'm sure that won't be *too* hard for the stuff that is essentially just a different kind of gun...

but i suspect not all things would be so easy. a realistic response to an invisible enemy might be rather difficult. teaching the AI how to fly in 3d in a game where the AI hasn't already got that would be unpleasant as well, i'm sure. having an AI try to figure out if you're just immune to fire or immune to all energy might not be too bad, but having it decide what to do if it has no weapons that can harm you might be a problem (does it run away, and if so is that even coded into the game? where is "away"? what if you have other allies nearby who aren't invincible?). you'd have to be very selective about what powers you add for that reason.

SAMASzero wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:the problem with single-player is that you need to make the AI work.

That's a problem for every game.

now, assuming it's just a mod, i'm sure that won't be *too* hard for the stuff that is essentially just a different kind of gun...

but i suspect not all things would be so easy. a realistic response to an invisible enemy might be rather difficult. teaching the AI how to fly in 3d in a game where the AI hasn't already got that would be unpleasant as well, i'm sure. having an AI try to figure out if you're just immune to fire or immune to all energy might not be too bad, but having it decide what to do if it has no weapons that can harm you might be a problem (does it run away, and if so is that even coded into the game? where is "away"? what if you have other allies nearby who aren't invincible?). you'd have to be very selective about what powers you add for that reason.

We weren't talking about modding a game so much as a whole new one (though maybe on an existing engine).

Shark_Force wrote:

SAMASzero wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:the problem with single-player is that you need to make the AI work.

That's a problem for every game.

now, assuming it's just a mod, i'm sure that won't be *too* hard for the stuff that is essentially just a different kind of gun...

but i suspect not all things would be so easy. a realistic response to an invisible enemy might be rather difficult. teaching the AI how to fly in 3d in a game where the AI hasn't already got that would be unpleasant as well, i'm sure. having an AI try to figure out if you're just immune to fire or immune to all energy might not be too bad, but having it decide what to do if it has no weapons that can harm you might be a problem (does it run away, and if so is that even coded into the game? where is "away"? what if you have other allies nearby who aren't invincible?). you'd have to be very selective about what powers you add for that reason.

We weren't talking about modding a game so much as a whole new one (though maybe on an existing engine).

the original proposal was for a pure PvP game specifically to avoid the pitfalls of coding in AI. i can tell, because the OP said "More specifically, in the interest of keeping it scaled down to a viable first project, what if it were a pure PvP game (ie. no campaign, just online play, but with XP, some selection/progression of skills/abilities, equipment selection, etc)?"

any other game that does the same thing is also not going to have this problem which you say is in every game.

the rest of my observations were essentially along the lines of "but you could make a 'rifts' game with AI maybe if you were to just mod another game" and discussing some of the possible pitfalls, such as the existing AI not being able to cover certain scenarios.