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There's certain types of magic in palladium that seem a bit hard to work with. Druids, Summoners and Diabolists seem to get the short end of the stick in my home game.

Summoners need time, specific ingredients and the actual discovery of new circles to really do anything. Druids are...well frankly, it's been a while since I read that part, because I thought they were extremely restrictive and a total mess.

Diabolists seem very defensive, but what can they actually do in combat that any fool with a long knife can't? I know combat isn't their prime role, I respect that, but I would just like some insight as to what you players do as a diabolist in melee or ranged combat, what sets you apart?

The problem isnt the magic users - its the men at arms.

Your mercenary has HTH basic and a WP, so does your mage. The difference is some physical skill selections which most of the mages can get anyway (not that a true role player would pick these without a good back story).

If you play and elf mage with a good PP role your probably on par at fighting with a human man at arms.

BUT - diabolist arent meant to be combat characters. Lots of PB's OCC are this way; healers, merchants, fletchers etc. but are still fun to play.

Summoners are good because with a minion they are OTT powerful but without they go back to the basic (which as mentioned arent necessarily bad depending on skill selections and equipment). The time and availability of most components are just right IMHO.

So to summarise, try and play them in a non-combat role or pick a race that will help you to at least hold you own (elf, gnome, troll etc.)

The Dark Elf wrote:The problem isnt the magic users - its the men at arms.

Your mercenary has HTH basic and a WP, so does your mage. The difference is some physical skill selections which most of the mages can get anyway (not that a true role player would pick these without a good back story).

If you play and elf mage with a good PP role your probably on par at fighting with a human man at arms.

BUT - diabolist arent meant to be combat characters. Lots of PB's OCC are this way; healers, merchants, fletchers etc. but are still fun to play.

Summoners are good because with a minion they are OTT powerful but without they go back to the basic (which as mentioned arent necessarily bad depending on skill selections and equipment). The time and availability of most components are just right IMHO.

So to summarise, try and play them in a non-combat role or pick a race that will help you to at least hold you own (elf, gnome, troll etc.)

or you could just play the class as the intelligent planing type that it is...
Do not engage the enemy on their terms.
prepare the battlefield before combat ensues.
This is the strength of all Mage classes.
A mage properly prepared is nigh unstoppable.

Having played a mage with good spells, I know that last part as fact. Sure you can try to manipulate the fight ahead of time, assuming you know its coming. I've found that most magic spells aren't really that good at dealing damage. They are PPE hogs, they scale, but not too well, and they generally have a low strike bonus. What magic is WONDERFUL at, is debuffing and buffing. Cloud of Smoke, Cloud of Slumber, Blinding Flash, Carpet of Adhesion, Armor of Ithan...

I get that sometimes you want to play a less than stellar warrior type, I played a pacifist priest that hit level 7, who in her career did 1 pt of damage. Diabolism is probably one of the toughest OCCs to play, I was just hoping someone had some good tips for it.

I guess here's one. Since you're not going to sling spells in combat, wearing metal armor won't hurt you as much, if at all

zerombr wrote:Having played a mage with good spells, I know that last part as fact. Sure you can try to manipulate the fight ahead of time, assuming you know its coming. I've found that most magic spells aren't really that good at dealing damage. They are PPE hogs, they scale, but not too well, and they generally have a low strike bonus. What magic is WONDERFUL at, is debuffing and buffing. Cloud of Smoke, Cloud of Slumber, Blinding Flash, Carpet of Adhesion, Armor of Ithan...

I get that sometimes you want to play a less than stellar warrior type, I played a pacifist priest that hit level 7, who in her career did 1 pt of damage. Diabolism is probably one of the toughest OCCs to play, I was just hoping someone had some good tips for it.

I guess here's one. Since you're not going to sling spells in combat, wearing metal armor won't hurt you as much, if at all

The Diabolist is a thinker... you have to plan ahead with them... If your GM likes to pull the "you turn the corner and BAM! 20 goblins attack" routine then this class is not going to suit the setting.
But if the GM does give ample opportunity prepare (or at least tries to drop hints that you might be attacked) then the class can be hell on wheels...
And as to your opinion that magic is good at only buffing/nerfing That is your opinion... But I have multiple combat mages that would disagree with you. (Spell selection is key) There are plenty of DPS spells out there that are cost effective. (dancing stones for instance).

You do know that you are able to give an opinion or advice without quoting someone and disagreeing with them. You can just post your advice for the OP to read.

I have 2 mages in my group- they really can be nightmares for NPC's- the rest of my group relies heavily on them to set an easier battle- for example, the earth warlock hits the enemy with quicksand, the air warlock gives the ranger lightning arrows- mincemeat....

For combat power as a summoner, you have a summoned minion. Gargoyles are GREAT combat-centric minions, and the ingredients for a circle are freaking everywhere. (seriously, mud and a freaking lizard!). After that WEAR ARMOR, because you are not going to be casting any spells during combat.

Diabolism is similar. You dont have a minion to protect you, but you've got all these ward effects that you will not be able to in any way make in combat; WEAR ARMOR. Put a buttload of wards on your armor that you can trigger manually. Shields are a great flat surface for you to put them on.

Protection from wards emplaced on PCs prior to a fight can do wonders for the group.

Permanence wards plus... just about anything equals awesome, whether on a character or an object.

A flip book of pre-made, but unactivated wards is your ammunition.

If all else fails, have a readily-accessible area-affect ward combination of death, disablement, and general mayhem with the names of the group included for immunity. Force activate as a last-ditch effort.

Hotrod wrote:If all else fails, have a readily-accessible area-affect ward combination of death, disablement, and general mayhem with the names of the group included for immunity. Force activate as a last-ditch effort.

My group is to paranoid to allow their names to be known, even by the party diabolist who has saved the group on more than one occasion. Minus the name parts I did make a nasty bunch of wards for the last party member standing situation. At the end of a climatic battle and we needed to leave before the ship was crushed I left one of these wards, the treasure left behind was to tempting and one of the players went back for it and got zapped pretty good. He should of died based on the saves but could not pull the trigger on killing him.

Have basically a pack or 2 of blank playing cards. Go with jazeraint armor. That's all I am going to say.

pblackcrow wrote:Have basically a pack or 2 of blank playing cards. Go with jazeraint armor. That's all I am going to say.

Now all I can see if a cross between hawkeye and gambit for some combat orienated (sp) diabolist.

As some here are allready sying. Diabolist can be extremly powerfull in combat since he can put wards on basicly anything! He can add double damage and double defence. And he can deliver death easy.

Also remember that players can play multiple occ. This is what makes the characters powerfull. Being able to swing the sword and cast spells at the same time.

I also agree that I see Druid as one of the weakest occ in the game. Summoner and Diabolist i think is one the strongest.

I consider the Druid OCC to be an order of magnitude stronger than the Psi-Healer and many optional OCCs such as blacksmith, fletcher, lumberjack, miner, and peasant. Magic-wise, they're a second-class mystic, but their skill bonuses and selection possibilities are far superior and allow for some formidable abilities. With some appropriate skill selections, they could be pretty formidable. They start with Botany, and can select Use/Recognize Poison and Holistic Medicine. Such a combination could be very potent, even if you only allow the simpler, natural potions/herbs in the basic book (page 257).

Starmage21 wrote: Shields are a great flat surface for you to put them on.

How would a ward on a shield help?

The Dark Elf wrote:

Starmage21 wrote: Shields are a great flat surface for you to put them on.

How would a ward on a shield help?

Immunity to. Fire +ice+electricy+ acid+premence= shiled that prevents alot of dragons breath.
Could put detect evil on it, shield glows around evil. Detect changlings could help you root out and put a stop to the problem of them. Ect.

Zamion138 wrote:

The Dark Elf wrote:

Starmage21 wrote: Shields are a great flat surface for you to put them on.

How would a ward on a shield help?

Immunity to. Fire +ice+electricy+ acid+premence= shiled that prevents alot of dragons breath.
Could put detect evil on it, shield glows around evil. Detect changlings could help you root out and put a stop to the problem of them. Ect.

Making the shield impervious to fire doesn't mean you can parry six foot wide dragon's breath attacks with it.

As far as I know, there is no detect evil or detect changelings ward. The 'evil' ward would not work in this way, as even if you combined it with a 'light' ward to create a glow, it will not detect all evil things in the area. The evil thing would need to touch the ward and set it off.

You can inscribe various effects on it since the diabolist cannot accidentally trigger his own wards.

Soldier of Od wrote:

Zamion138 wrote:

The Dark Elf wrote:

Starmage21 wrote: Shields are a great flat surface for you to put them on.

How would a ward on a shield help?

Immunity to. Fire +ice+electricy+ acid+premence= shiled that prevents alot of dragons breath.
Could put detect evil on it, shield glows around evil. Detect changlings could help you root out and put a stop to the problem of them. Ect.

Making the shield impervious to fire doesn't mean you can parry six foot wide dragon's breath attacks with it.

As far as I know, there is no detect evil or detect changelings ward. The 'evil' ward would not work in this way, as even if you combined it with a 'light' ward to create a glow, it will not detect all evil things in the area. The evil thing would need to touch the ward and set it off.

you can put area effect evil trigger light and color, im not saying your going to end up with the ultimate shield of power that rivals rune weapons.
one problem though is that under limitations the shield could only be used by the diabolist (pg126 PF 1st print) as if its moved by some one else it would just go off instently.

Cant put an area effect ward on something that mobile I believe:

"Such wards can be placed on large stationary objects such as floors, walls, ceilings, archways, locked doors, large trunks, crates, and so on, but not items that are frequently used or carried."

The Dark Elf wrote:Cant put an area effect ward on something that mobile I believe:

"Such wards can be placed on large stationary objects such as floors, walls, ceilings, archways, locked doors, large trunks, crates, and so on, but not items that are frequently used or carried."

Your probaly dead on im not a master of the class.

The Dark Elf wrote:Cant put an area effect ward on something that mobile I believe:

"Such wards can be placed on large stationary objects such as floors, walls, ceilings, archways, locked doors, large trunks, crates, and so on, but not items that are frequently used or carried."

The way I understand the rules, you can technically put an area effect ward on anything. However, the effect is anchored to the spot where it is first triggered. Because of that, it's really only useful for things that aren't moved a lot.

For example, say a diabolist puts a permanent area effect ward on his shield that triggers when someone evil enters the area. As long as he's holding the shield, nothing happens. However, he decides to put that shield on his mantelpiece. Later on that day, his evil brother comes over setting off the ward. The area of effect magic is now centered on the diabolist's mantelpiece and not his shield. He can move his shield wherever he wants, but the area of effect is still centered on his mantelpiece.

rustyspoon wrote:

The Dark Elf wrote:Cant put an area effect ward on something that mobile I believe:

"Such wards can be placed on large stationary objects such as floors, walls, ceilings, archways, locked doors, large trunks, crates, and so on, but not items that are frequently used or carried."

The way I understand the rules, you can technically put an area effect ward on anything. However, the effect is anchored to the spot where it is first triggered. Because of that, it's really only useful for things that aren't moved a lot.

For example, say a diabolist puts a permanent area effect ward on his shield that triggers when someone evil enters the area. As long as he's holding the shield, nothing happens. However, he decides to put that shield on his mantelpiece. Later on that day, his evil brother comes over setting off the ward. The area of effect magic is now centered on the diabolist's mantelpiece and not his shield. He can move his shield wherever he wants, but the area of effect is still centered on his mantelpiece.

I agree with both posters there. So the idea of turning a shield into a 'sense evil' device unfortunately doesn't really work.

*wakes up from his LONG LONG nap*

Put together full ward chains far ahead of time.

Area effect + death + fire, immune (insert party members true names here), and attach to an item that you're going to carry around. DO NOT ACTIVATE.

You are a mage, so, at this point is when you should be in the middle of the party, although diabolists can be descent front/backrank members, and don't have to be protected as much as the spellslinger does. Unexpected combat ensues. Plop down premade ward chain, force activate.

Prior planning does not have to be for the area, it can be what you carry on you. Keep that in mind. But as a diabolist, you DO need to think ahead. If you don't, you're screwed. Also, whenever possible, reclaim your ward components to reuse (and find creative ways to get components), or you will quickly become poor.

*lights his pipe, and settles back in* but it does seem that no matter how long I go away for, the same questions are here on the boards....

Goliath Strongarm wrote:*wakes up from his LONG LONG nap*

Put together full ward chains far ahead of time.

Area effect + death + fire, immune (insert party members true names here), and attach to an item that you're going to carry around. DO NOT ACTIVATE.

You are a mage, so, at this point is when you should be in the middle of the party, although diabolists can be descent front/backrank members, and don't have to be protected as much as the spellslinger does. Unexpected combat ensues. Plop down premade ward chain, force activate.

Prior planning does not have to be for the area, it can be what you carry on you. Keep that in mind. But as a diabolist, you DO need to think ahead. If you don't, you're screwed. Also, whenever possible, reclaim your ward components to reuse (and find creative ways to get components), or you will quickly become poor.

*lights his pipe, and settles back in* but it does seem that no matter how long I go away for, the same questions are here on the boards....

People come, people go... the questions never change...

Goliath Strongarm wrote:Area effect + death + fire, immune (insert party members true names here), and attach to an item that you're going to carry around. DO NOT ACTIVATE.

Cant put an area effect ward on something mobile I believe:

"Such wards can be placed on large stationary objects such as floors, walls, ceilings, archways, locked doors, large trunks, crates, and so on, but not items that are frequently used or carried."

I would argue that AOE wasnt possible, due to the points in bold(?)

The Dark Elf wrote:

Goliath Strongarm wrote:Area effect + death + fire, immune (insert party members true names here), and attach to an item that you're going to carry around. DO NOT ACTIVATE.

Cant put an area effect ward on something mobile I believe:

"Such wards can be placed on large stationary objects such as floors, walls, ceilings, archways, locked doors, large trunks, crates, and so on, but not items that are frequently used or carried."

I would argue that AOE wasnt possible, due to the points in bold(?)

You are correct, once it is active. You cannot activate the chain and carry it around, having it hit people.

I'm saying you carry an INACTIVE chain, then plant and activate. Once you activate, it is a stationary effect. The rule is to prevent you from walking around with area effect just going off. Or to be the "touch me and everyone dies" guy.

Area effect, must be written in the diabolists blood. As such anything you put it on will probably chip off. Since you cannot put wards on fabric, I would let a diabolist do this in my game, but there would be a chance that the ward has been destroyed while being carried around.
As a side note, if other players are so easy about giving out their true name, then as a gm. Whatever is being warded and thrown around, I'm going to find a way for an npc to get a hold of it.

Goliath Strongarm wrote:

The Dark Elf wrote:

Goliath Strongarm wrote:Area effect + death + fire, immune (insert party members true names here), and attach to an item that you're going to carry around. DO NOT ACTIVATE.

Cant put an area effect ward on something mobile I believe:

"Such wards can be placed on large stationary objects such as floors, walls, ceilings, archways, locked doors, large trunks, crates, and so on, but not items that are frequently used or carried."

I would argue that AOE wasnt possible, due to the points in bold(?)

You are correct, once it is active. You cannot activate the chain and carry it around, having it hit people.

I'm saying you carry an INACTIVE chain, then plant and activate. Once you activate, it is a stationary effect. The rule is to prevent you from walking around with area effect just going off. Or to be the "touch me and everyone dies" guy.

I see your reasoning but I disagree. I believe the intention of AOE wards is to be used as traps hence the ruling of "Area effect wards can only be placed on immobile or stationary objects". I would call your reasoning more of a subjective loop hole in the scripture. Unless the item you are carrying the inactive ward on is a locked door, ceiling, archway or more likely a large crate. If you wish to lug a large trunk around just so you can activate an AOE ward at some point you are welcome to it.

The Dark Elf wrote:

Goliath Strongarm wrote:

The Dark Elf wrote:

Goliath Strongarm wrote:Area effect + death + fire, immune (insert party members true names here), and attach to an item that you're going to carry around. DO NOT ACTIVATE.

Cant put an area effect ward on something mobile I believe:

"Such wards can be placed on large stationary objects such as floors, walls, ceilings, archways, locked doors, large trunks, crates, and so on, but not items that are frequently used or carried."

I would argue that AOE wasnt possible, due to the points in bold(?)

You are correct, once it is active. You cannot activate the chain and carry it around, having it hit people.

I'm saying you carry an INACTIVE chain, then plant and activate. Once you activate, it is a stationary effect. The rule is to prevent you from walking around with area effect just going off. Or to be the "touch me and everyone dies" guy.

I see your reasoning but I disagree. I believe the intention of AOE wards is to be used as traps hence the ruling of "Area effect wards can only be placed on immobile or stationary objects". I would call your reasoning more of a subjective loop hole in the scripture. Unless the item you are carrying the inactive ward on is a locked door, ceiling, archway or more likely a large crate. If you wish to lug a large trunk around just so you can activate an AOE ward at some point you are welcome to it.

I think we've been over this one before. after this bit we went on to discuss what exactly contitutes as a 'mobile object' - how big does a trunk have to be in order for it to fit your interpretation of the rules, Dark Elf? I agree with Goliath on this one. you can do anything with an inactivated ward phrase - at that point it is only a bunch of squiggly letters. the point is that you can't move an object after the AOE ward have been activated - or if you did the effect would remain at the spot it was activated. Goliath's reasoning is sound and it still fits the spirit of the character and the game.

Someone with better computer skills that me please find the old thread and link to it so that we don't go over the same old points again!

Soldier of Od wrote:

I think we've been over this one before.

PF board. The department of redundancy department.

But, this is one of those "gm must decide" things. Personally, I would allow, but if the diabolist tried to move the wards, the effect would end immediately.

We'll leave it there then. When I play in SoO's game I'll have the upper hand. When he plays in mine, he'll not enjoy playing a diabolist.

The Dark Elf wrote::crane:

We'll leave it there then. When I play in SoO's game I'll have the upper hand. When he plays in mine, he'll not enjoy playing a diabolist.

Entirely your decision, but, before you go making the class even more worthless during an encounter the PCs haven't had time to prepare for (and forcing him to be a bad fighter, since during combat he isn't going to have the time to sit down and draw out the symbols)

pg 122, under "Ward Energizing"
A Diabolist can prepare/create an aresenal of wards all waiting to be energized. It is the energized ward that harnesses magic energy and unleashes it when triggered. Wards that aren't yet energized or have already been triggered and their magic activated are harmless.

(The italics are in the book, the bold is making the point)

It's a harmless chunk of <insert material component> that looks funny. Until it's energized. Also see under "How wards work" that it mentions that only after all the wards have been energized are they functional, and without being energized, it's nothing more than a strange design.

**Edit: BTW, NO wards can be placed on objects being moved around. Which is why you make the class near worthless. You might as well rip those pages out of your book, or mark them as NPC only. But for players, the class becomes unplayable.

The diabolist can put defensive wards on himself and still move around from memory and that was about it.

Saying that i can be convinced to allow certain flexibilities with the diabolist.
Tthe second last diabolist i dm'd found a "new" set of wards the same time a new type of tough monsters appeared, the monsters either regenerated all their hp at the end of each round no matter what, turned into a lava form that couldn't be hurt by standard weaponry and regenerated by fire damage(which they could do), had an AR of 28 and HP that returned in proportion to their damage done, and a tentacular master monster that had harpoon attacks and a mix of the other 3 powers.
I then had combo's of the new wards help out against them and they needed to be done by trial and error (stop regen, auto pen the monsters armour, turn the lava monster back to stone, protected the pc's and a few other things). The new wards were combat capable and the diabolist was a very popular person whenever they came across those types of monster.
the other thing that would be fun to test would be the native spoken language of the old ones, does it bend space/time by just being uttered.

The last diablolist got chased by wolves, tried to climb a tree and failed, tried to climb a tree and failed, tried to climb a tree and got mostly to the top and fell out, ko'ing himself in front of the very hungry wolves.

The Dark Elf wrote:The problem isnt the magic users - its the men at arms.

Your mercenary has HTH basic and a WP, so does your mage. The difference is some physical skill selections which most of the mages can get anyway (not that a true role player would pick these without a good back story).

If you play and elf mage with a good PP role your probably on par at fighting with a human man at arms.

BUT - diabolist arent meant to be combat characters. Lots of PB's OCC are this way; healers, merchants, fletchers etc. but are still fun to play.

Summoners are good because with a minion they are OTT powerful but without they go back to the basic (which as mentioned arent necessarily bad depending on skill selections and equipment). The time and availability of most components are just right IMHO.

So to summarise, try and play them in a non-combat role or pick a race that will help you to at least hold you own (elf, gnome, troll etc.)

WOW. Never thought of making a wizard like that. A valid and eye opening point though. Thank you.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

The Dark Elf wrote:The problem isnt the magic users - its the men at arms.

Your mercenary has HTH basic and a WP, so does your mage. The difference is some physical skill selections which most of the mages can get anyway (not that a true role player would pick these without a good back story).

If you play and elf mage with a good PP role your probably on par at fighting with a human man at arms.

BUT - diabolist arent meant to be combat characters. Lots of PB's OCC are this way; healers, merchants, fletchers etc. but are still fun to play.

Summoners are good because with a minion they are OTT powerful but without they go back to the basic (which as mentioned arent necessarily bad depending on skill selections and equipment). The time and availability of most components are just right IMHO.

So to summarise, try and play them in a non-combat role or pick a race that will help you to at least hold you own (elf, gnome, troll etc.)

or you could just play the class as the intelligent planing type that it is...
Do not engage the enemy on their terms.
prepare the battlefield before combat ensues.
This is the strength of all Mage classes.
A mage properly prepared is nigh unstoppable.

I agree totally I just cant see even given decent time, how much a diabolist might do. I do need to sit down and reread that job again in detail.

Hotrod wrote:Protection from wards emplaced on PCs prior to a fight can do wonders for the group.

Permanence wards plus... just about anything equals awesome, whether on a character or an object.

A flip book of pre-made, but unactivated wards is your ammunition.

If all else fails, have a readily-accessible area-affect ward combination of death, disablement, and general mayhem with the names of the group included for immunity. Force activate as a last-ditch effort.

Very enlightening idea. Bravo.

SittingBull wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

The Dark Elf wrote:The problem isnt the magic users - its the men at arms.

Your mercenary has HTH basic and a WP, so does your mage. The difference is some physical skill selections which most of the mages can get anyway (not that a true role player would pick these without a good back story).

If you play and elf mage with a good PP role your probably on par at fighting with a human man at arms.

BUT - diabolist arent meant to be combat characters. Lots of PB's OCC are this way; healers, merchants, fletchers etc. but are still fun to play.

Summoners are good because with a minion they are OTT powerful but without they go back to the basic (which as mentioned arent necessarily bad depending on skill selections and equipment). The time and availability of most components are just right IMHO.

So to summarise, try and play them in a non-combat role or pick a race that will help you to at least hold you own (elf, gnome, troll etc.)

or you could just play the class as the intelligent planing type that it is...
Do not engage the enemy on their terms.
prepare the battlefield before combat ensues.
This is the strength of all Mage classes.
A mage properly prepared is nigh unstoppable.

I agree totally I just cant see even given decent time, how much a diabolist might do. I do need to sit down and reread that job again in detail.

Diabolist is one of my favorite OCCs. However, as discussed in this forum, if you don't allow them to make wards ahead of time, and carry them around (I'm not saying ACTIVATE THEM, I'm saying carry around carved/molded chunks of whatever material, or of phrases glued to stones, etc but have NOT had any PPE pushed into them!!), then as an adventurer class, it becomes horrible. Seriously, as an adventurer, how often can you stop and prepare the scene? That's what the people defending do, not the people coming in to pillage the ancient dungeon, kobold cavern, goblin tribe, etc... Oh, we're here to raid the dragons lair? Great, once we're there, I'm going to start carving a ward to help us out....

I agree, proper planning is essential for the class (and it is also a financially costly class!), however, the way TDE is viewing things, as a diabolist, I'm not going to be able to prepare to go adventuring. The only useful diabolist is the one who is going to stay in one spot.

One other tactic to consider:

Have a protection ward arsenal (not activated) pre-placed on yourself. As you crawl through a given dungeon and encounter unforeseen threats, activate whichever protections you need as you go.

Alternately, if you know your target well, you can prepare your whole party to be immune or highly resistant to its abilities.

So wards CAN be placed on a living creature? Like a tattoo?

Hotrod wrote:One other tactic to consider:

Have a protection ward arsenal (not activated) pre-placed on yourself. As you crawl through a given dungeon and encounter unforeseen threats, activate whichever protections you need as you go.

Alternately, if you know your target well, you can prepare your whole party to be immune or highly resistant to its abilities.

Given the materials required to make wards it's VERY unlikely you could place unused wards on yourself and have them survive moving about and such so as to be useable at a later time.

SittingBull wrote:So wards CAN be placed on a living creature? Like a tattoo?

Yes, and no...

CERTAIN wards can be placed on people. However, typically, they have to be painted onto the person, or sewn into their skin (such as with the perm. ward).

Area Effect cannot be done on a person, a person cannot be set as a trigger (no protection by infliction)...

However, you can inflict directly onto a person (useful for torture) and protect (useful for adventurers).

Now, for painting on, you're talking it's a short term, and really, it gets expensive, because it's a much more complicated process. Also, as a GM (and most other GMs I know), are severely going to limit the amount of your materials you get back, if any.

But, if you've got the goods, go ahead and sew that permanence into their flesh... And if you do, remember to make it worth it, by adding in that power ward! Double your bonus baby!

Goliath Strongarm wrote:

But, if you've got the goods, go ahead and sew that permanence into their flesh...

Why sew? Could you not tattoo it in?

Ill say there is no clear answer on Diabolism. Half say you can do this with it and the other half say you cant.

jaymz wrote:

Goliath Strongarm wrote:

But, if you've got the goods, go ahead and sew that permanence into their flesh...

Why sew? Could you not tattoo it in?

You're going to tattoo ground demon/deevil/dragon/godling bone into them? Doesn't work too well. Especially for a ward that must "be carved from a single piece".

Condition wards you'll use will be gold, silver, or mercury.. not really a good idea to tattoo directly with those metals.. or the inflict would be made from WOOD... or the protection from would be beeswax

I think that all kind of answers itself, doesn't it?

Yet we have people talking about having wards on paper in a flip book....I am not talking ALL wards but it seems to me some could be.

jaymz wrote:Yet we have people talking about having wards on paper in a flip book....I am not talking ALL wards but it seems to me some could be.

Can't be done on a fabric... in theory, could be done on paper. Not already energized, mind, but just carved/painted.

Nightmask wrote:
Given the materials required to make wards it's VERY unlikely you could place unused wards on yourself and have them survive moving about and such so as to be useable at a later time.

That's a legitimate concern. Perhaps a better approach would be to have them pre-made on paper, and have some ready-made glue. Or, if you're in a higher-tech environment, use duct tape. Slap on, activate, and win!