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Has there been any disucions on creating a beginners box, with streamlined rules similar to those found in Pathfinder beginners box and Dungeons and dragons 4th Ed. I have seen many a gamer start with these. Both of them include everything need to get into the game. I would have loved a rifts basic set when i first got into the game. Anyone else though similar?

It's come up. Last time, I suggested that they print up a version like the original Mechanoid game. It was originally published in a comic book format.

Fantasy Flight also did it for their new Star Wars RPG.
It's a good idea to introduce people to the game. A beginner version of the book, an intro scenario with pre-gens, and a set of dice.

Beginner's Boxes are a great marketing tool.
D&D got A LOT of it's initial popularity based off the Red Box and White Box boxed set's in the 70's.
The game was fairly easy (64 page manuals, IIRC), went from levels 1-10, had dice, and an instant adventure.
Perhaps most importantly, you were able to find it in major retail stores.

I think it's a good goal to shoot for, but faces much the same problem as Go:
"Easy to play, a lifetime to master."
You have to have very discreet goals and objectives when making this kind of product, else it will 1) never engage the distributor (i.e. never show up in stores), 2) never engage the consumer (i.e. never get bought), and 3) drive sales to the expanding line (i.e. make a fan, who will buy more game books over time).

its intreting you should should say it may not get backed by a distributer. I have run demo games for megaversal system in nearly 10 games stores in the north of the uk. Every one of the owners said the would prefer a starter set to see how well that would do before they stock the games in the shop.

Ime not trying to suggest a new edition but maybe something with less player classes and possibly a way for the players to have all the skills ready set out on a character sheet for each class if that makes sense.

I LOVE this idea. I would totally buy it. Hell, I would be several and give them away to my young cousins who are just getting into roleplaying games as birthday and christmas presents.

From what I've seen, if the store carries palladium products, they generally carry what palladium puts out. The distribution concern seems missplaced. No one worried that dinosaur swamp wouldn't be distributed - there's really no difference here.

I think Kev just doesn't do so, because to strip back just gives away how the magic trick is done.

I mean, how many of you guys would buy a Rifts themed version of snakes and ladders (using d20 instead of d6), or call that an RPG?

And yet when you simplify the rules enough, but take pains to still make it a game, that's what you get - the magic trick is revealed.

Me, I'd buy a beginners Rifts themed version of what effectively comes down to snakes and ladders. I'm not prejudiced against it. But probably the author is, even though that's what it (and other RPG's) come down to.

What magic trick? I don't understand what you mean.

Both the pathfinder and star wars intro box sets seem to be doing well, and doesn't stop them from people getting into the actual games...well Pathfinder anyway. The Star Wars 'advanced' game hasn't come out yet.

Good point on the distribution though. I totally agree.

MikeM wrote:What magic trick? I don't understand what you mean.

Both the pathfinder and star wars intro box sets seem to be doing well, and doesn't stop them from people getting into the actual games...well Pathfinder anyway. The Star Wars 'advanced' game hasn't come out yet.

The obsfucation by complication magic trick.

It depends - #1. if you'd buy a rifts themed game of snakes and ladders, then you don't need the obsfucation magic trick to make an RPG seem to magically be different from a board game. The trick is just other peoples concerns. Don't worry about it unless you want an academic description
or
#2. If you'd balk at buying a rifts themed game of snakes and ladders because 'ug, that's just a board game!', well then like alot of gamers you need the magic trick to make an RPG somehow special and different from a boardgame*.


* I will acknowledge in as much as an RPG is an incomplete boardgame, that makes them differ from regular boardgames. But it's not much of a dif.

In terms of distribution, I'm talking about getting them in K-Mart, Target, or Wal-Mart (you know, major national/international distributors), rather than FLGS.
Even breaking into the book trade, is a major accomplishment (and reportedly, one of the factors that torpedo'd TSR, due to a bad contract).

Red Box D&D sold at K-Mart, when D&D was young. It's a feat we haven't seen, since, that I know of.
The closest is the LEGO Heroica games.

There are reasons why you haven't seen mass market distribution in 25 years. Major chain retailers tend to demand shocking discounts and return policies. In a niche industry like RPGs, which runs on absurdly narrow profit margins, it just can't be done without cutting the publisher out entirely.

This is why I would prefer introductory products be published as part of the company's promotional efforts and distributed to shops and Megaversal Ambassadors for free. I'd be very happy to make sure they ended up in the hands of eager young consumers.

I think they'd be better off running a kick starter for the promo stuff.

Make sure they get the amount needed, and that they are just direct sending it to people who want it instead of the dinosaur like distribution network.

And palladium should look at print on demand servives - it's quite easy, fold the price into the kick start.

They shouldn't just go 'Oh, but the only way to go is to print in bulk! $aving$!'.

It's not some zinger of a tactic anymore - particularly in a fringe industry. Simply print for the people who want the product, not for the sake of bulk, and send directly to them.

But Kevin will need to think it was his idea to begin with, before it'll seem a good idea.

I think something like this would be great for MAs to distribute as pizes for their con games. Even a quickstart rules pamphlet to hand out to players woukd be agood idea.

I agree that something small, simple, and cheap would be best. I just think a box set is outside of what PB could realistically do right now. Something printed in a similar format to the catalogue, complete with staples would do. Although the Rifters seem to be nice and cheap, they just gave me 40 copies to giveaway at my convention next week so that might work too.

It should have:
1) Simplified rules
2) A limited number of pre-generated characters (say a CS Mil Spec, Dog Boy, Cyber-knight, Glitter Boy, Juicer, Lay-line Walker, and maybe a mystic and or Mind Melter)
3) Each character should be completely filled out in a playable sheet with only a few minor choices to make at first and the book should have enough add-ons to get the characters to 5th level
4) You could even have optional add-ons on Drive-thru, new characters, skills and powers to slowly build the complexity of your game.
5) Must have one starter adventurer and then a follow-up adventure against a variety of adversaries. It would also be helpful if there were 2 or 3 more adventures for sale or free on Drive-thru RPG. Again each must feature a different bad guy and a different type of threat.
6) It should be available as a free download or very cheap printed.

Now here's the catch, which of you is going to write it? Because KS and the 4 other people that make up the full time "staff" of PB do not have the time and I am sorry but this idea is not good enough to delay my UEEF Marines book, or my Robotech spacecraft books, or my Rifts Antarctica, or really anything else I have been promised over the last 25 years by PB and yet received.

If people really want this they will need to put it together themselves and submit it to KS with very little in the way of work to do.

Freelancers to the rescue????

I could have sworn an idea similar to this was talked about by Kevin S. In an issue of the Rifter. No hard plans were laid out but something like a quick start book with limited options for each line. It might have just been simply tossing the idea out there in a random thought but I could swear it was in there. Might have been around the time that Void Runners was being mentioned...

Semi-Retired Gamer wrote:I could have sworn an idea similar to this was talked about by Kevin S. In an issue of the Rifter. No hard plans were laid out but something like a quick start book with limited options for each line. It might have just been simply tossing the idea out there in a random thought but I could swear it was in there. Might have been around the time that Void Runners was being mentioned...

It has been mentioned a few times, but each time I heard about it it was connected to a freelancer.

Voidrunners... I forgot all about that one. I don't even remember what it was about anymore or who was supposed to write it.

Warshield73 wrote:

Semi-Retired Gamer wrote:I could have sworn an idea similar to this was talked about by Kevin S. In an issue of the Rifter. No hard plans were laid out but something like a quick start book with limited options for each line. It might have just been simply tossing the idea out there in a random thought but I could swear it was in there. Might have been around the time that Void Runners was being mentioned...

It has been mentioned a few times, but each time I heard about it it was connected to a freelancer.

Voidrunners... I forgot all about that one. I don't even remember what it was about anymore or who was supposed to write it.

All I remember is the name...lol.

Semi-Retired Gamer wrote:I could have sworn an idea similar to this was talked about by Kevin S. In an issue of the Rifter. No hard plans were laid out but something like a quick start book with limited options for each line....

That would be the Game Master kits:

Palladium Fantasy Game Master Kit

RIFTS Game Master Kit

MADMANMIKE wrote:

Semi-Retired Gamer wrote:I could have sworn an idea similar to this was talked about by Kevin S. In an issue of the Rifter. No hard plans were laid out but something like a quick start book with limited options for each line....

That would be the Game Master kits:

Palladium Fantasy Game Master Kit

RIFTS Game Master Kit

While those are useful and the quick start mentioned may have morphed into those but I had the impression that there would be condensed rules with just a few OCCS, races, etc. like a sampler of the full game that would serve as a standalone introduction. It may just be a faulty memory...who knows?

I would love that idea. I will talk to the other MA Coordinators and see what they say as well as talk to Palladium.

Semi-Retired Gamer wrote:

MADMANMIKE wrote:

Semi-Retired Gamer wrote:I could have sworn an idea similar to this was talked about by Kevin S. In an issue of the Rifter. No hard plans were laid out but something like a quick start book with limited options for each line....

That would be the Game Master kits:

Palladium Fantasy Game Master Kit

RIFTS Game Master Kit

While those are useful and the quick start mentioned may have morphed into those but I had the impression that there would be condensed rules with just a few OCCS, races, etc. like a sampler of the full game that would serve as a standalone introduction. It may just be a faulty memory...who knows?

I do.. while I have a vague recollection of reading that bit in the Rifter, I do clearly remember my conversation with Kev about it; I had suggested the project and he informed me that Carl was already working on it. The Game Master kits are the result of that efforts.

You may not be wrong in your inference, but the actual result of said announcement was the Game Master kits.

-Mike <8]

MADMANMIKE wrote:

Semi-Retired Gamer wrote:

MADMANMIKE wrote:

Semi-Retired Gamer wrote:I could have sworn an idea similar to this was talked about by Kevin S. In an issue of the Rifter. No hard plans were laid out but something like a quick start book with limited options for each line....

That would be the Game Master kits:

Palladium Fantasy Game Master Kit

RIFTS Game Master Kit

While those are useful and the quick start mentioned may have morphed into those but I had the impression that there would be condensed rules with just a few OCCS, races, etc. like a sampler of the full game that would serve as a standalone introduction. It may just be a faulty memory...who knows?

I do.. while I have a vague recollection of reading that bit in the Rifter, I do clearly remember my conversation with Kev about it; I had suggested the project and he informed me that Carl was already working on it. The Game Master kits are the result of that efforts.

You may not be wrong in your inference, but the actual result of said announcement was the Game Master kits.

-Mike <8]

That's cool.

Have these kits always been $5? I was expecting them to be free just from other publishers kits with pre-gen characters, charts/tables, etc.

TriOpticon wrote:Have these kits always been $5? I was expecting them to be free just from other publishers kits with pre-gen characters, charts/tables, etc.

The kits have been $5. One of the kits is given to Megaversal Ambassadors for free.

Yeah a lot of companies now seem to be putting out a "Basic Starter Kit" of some kind.

Catalyst has a free PDF of the basic Battletech rules will a printable map and paper counters to be used.

I know back in the day WEG did a SW D6 starter box. WotC did as well with D20 SW.

I have heard and seen others. The GM kits are great for what they are but they are certainly more geared towards a GM than a player per se. Still I need to reacquire them.

I'd like to see one for every game line personally as well......