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Ok here is a challange for the forum.

Your characters have been asked to develope the defenses of a walled town of 120 houses. The wall is 10 feet of Mega damage rock with towers on the corners and the front gate. You have been given 500,000 credits to augment the town defences to both detect and discorage the local bandits, Simvan and wandering monsters.

Now by using the various Rifts titles come up with a layered defense that is apropriate for North America.

What are the town's resources outside of the CR 500k, and do we have access to them?
As in, if we want to dig a moat, can we assume that labor is pretty free on that, or do we need to calculate an hourly wage?
If there's a mage in the town, like an Earth Warlock, that'd change the scope of labor and labor costs.

Also, how high are the walls? Towers? Gates?
And what are the most common wandering monsters in the area?

Proximity to CS forces is another issue as the cheepest way to build MDC fortifications may require magic. What are the posiblies for the person developing the defence are you limiting OCC.

This will be fun. I just wish I had more free time for it!!!!!

I'd do the following...

Invest in underground hydroponics.
Hire a Techno-Wizard (someone NOT famous) and have them secretly construct an invisibility projector that will project an illusion of invisibility over the city.
I'd then have a few of the local girls "convince him to live there" or imprison him should that fail.
I'd then get a few professional makeup artists make some of the local guys look like " survivors of a great disaster" and go out to the next town and spread rumors of how the city was decimated by (believable threat - rifted into a hell dimension, etc.).
Then I'd pour the rest of the budget into maintaining a self-sufficient/isolated community while the city/community figured out ways of better defending themselves. Ideally, rebuilding the town so that it can be draw beneath the ground and has some more robot defenders.

It really depends on the sort of risks they regularly face and their location.

Killer Cyborg wrote:What are the town's resources outside of the CR 500k, and do we have access to them?
As in, if we want to dig a moat, can we assume that labor is pretty free on that, or do we need to calculate an hourly wage?
If there's a mage in the town, like an Earth Warlock, that'd change the scope of labor and labor costs.

Well you have currently about 100 families living in town. There is power from an old Nuclear generator so you do have power. The families want to be safe so they will pitch in to help.

Also, how high are the walls? Towers? Gates?

The walls are fifteen feet high and the towers are an even twenty.

And what are the most common wandering monsters in the area?

It's in North America so outside of the Simvan you have Brodkil, dinosaurs, Rino-buffalo and the usual Manage of western Monsters.

You are outside of CS territory so you don't have to worry about them sending a bomber to flatten you.

I whould go with hiring a astral lord or mage, and use a modifed version of the atral club/bunker idea I came up with for the siege on tolekeen. It whould require the people in the town to sacerfice some PPE permently. 200 PPE for a large domain can is large enofe to contain a small town. That gives 500 build points.
40 for controled acces (only resdidents the creator and those they invite can enter.
physical portals (1 in the vilage and 1 in Lazlo) 30 points.
Landscape Multiple buildings 20 points.
Physical Laws Same as earth 20 points.
Living condtions Soil Nutrients 15, Food and water (tasty stuff) 20 Energy 8 blocks 200.
Location: Iner plane nexus point 30 points.

That should be 375 points leaving 125 for futher custmizaiton to the town/creator to work with during creation. This should make it a fairly well defenable town if they detect a threat they can flee to the atral plane town if they do not just live there like psiscape.

Blue_Lion wrote:I whould go with hiring a astral lord or mage, and use a modifed version of the atral club/bunker idea I came up with for the siege on tolekeen. It whould require the people in the town to sacerfice some PPE permently. 200 PPE for a large domain can is large enofe to contain a small town. That gives 500 build points.
40 for controled acces (only resdidents the creator and those they invite can enter.
physical portals (1 in the vilage and 1 in Lazlo) 30 points.
Landscape Multiple buildings 20 points.
Physical Laws Same as earth 20 points.
Living condtions Soil Nutrients 15, Food and water (tasty stuff) 20 Energy 8 blocks 200.
Location: Iner plane nexus point 30 points.

That should be 375 points leaving 125 for futher custmizaiton to the town/creator to work with during creation. This should make it a fairly well defenable town if they detect a threat they can flee to the atral plane town if they do not just live there like psiscape.

... Where's this from, exactly? Just curious, ive never seen any of that stuff before.

Assuming the townsfolk dont want to set up a town in alternate-magic-land, and want to stay in their homes, i looked at some of the following options.

Im in the middle of playing some Witcher 2 and taking a break for a snack, so ill throw down the basics without going too deep into the math.

Militia:
7.62mm Assault Rifles (400cr; merc ops, GMG) - WI-10 Ramjet rounds. 1MD per bullet, light-med MD per burst.
12ga Shotgun (pump; 5-8 round internal mag; 400cr GMG); APRJ rounds (GMG, 20cr each) do 2d6MD per shot. (with a 500ft range, to boot).
-- explosive rounds do 2d6MD/10ft radius (130cr each).
"The Bandito" Body Armor (Non-EBA; New West) - 38 MDC, 10,000cr each
arm some sharpshooters with bolt-action .50cal rifles (1200cr each, GMG/Merc Ops) - using WI-20 Heavy Ramjets.

cost per militaman: 10,800cr each in armor/weapons, 11,600 for the sharpshooters. Add another 2500cr each in Ammo. Call it 13k per militaman on average, and they have decent range (1200+ft on the 7.62s, up to a mile on the .50cal).

Outfitting a pretty sizable militia (30 men) would only cost about 390,000, leaving a decent amount of cash left over to buy some heavier weapons for the "sheriff" and a few constables.

Another decent MDC weapon option is the Laser Bow from Spirit West - 2d6 MD, 1000ft range, infinite payload, and only 8000 credits, and Vibro-axes from Spirit West are also quite a bit cheaper than CS vibro blades - 1600cr for 1d6+3 MD.

just some thoughts for some of you to play with. I think there might be better up-rated SDC type weapons out there, i was just hitting the GMG and the Merc books; but i could have sworn i saw recently that were nearly energy weapon levels of good and still cheap.

Also, just noticed MD Vibro-Wire fencing. 1d4 MD on touch, 3500cr for 50ft of it.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:I whould go with hiring a astral lord or mage, and use a modifed version of the atral club/bunker idea I came up with for the siege on tolekeen. It whould require the people in the town to sacerfice some PPE permently. 200 PPE for a large domain can is large enofe to contain a small town. That gives 500 build points.
40 for controled acces (only resdidents the creator and those they invite can enter.
physical portals (1 in the vilage and 1 in Lazlo) 30 points.
Landscape Multiple buildings 20 points.
Physical Laws Same as earth 20 points.
Living condtions Soil Nutrients 15, Food and water (tasty stuff) 20 Energy 8 blocks 200.
Location: Iner plane nexus point 30 points.

That should be 375 points leaving 125 for futher custmizaiton to the town/creator to work with during creation. This should make it a fairly well defenable town if they detect a threat they can flee to the atral plane town if they do not just live there like psiscape.

... Where's this from, exactly? Just curious, ive never seen any of that stuff before.

Between the shadows (night bane world book 1) there is a write up to tweek it in one of the rifters. The hard part is finding the mage thou, you whould need to search for him on the astral plane or have him rifted. If I rember right they are cannon rules for creating such places in rifts. But that is one of the best ways to defend a town, They can bomb the town to dust but the important part the people will be safe. So for 2 PPE permently sacerficed per family the people can be very well protected, attaching it to Lazlo means that they can invite other mages to live there with the benifit of a nexus should give them a level of defence if a astral enity barges in.

A party I was in came up with the idea during a siege on tolkeen game we created a astral doman club and resort that also had a small TW factory. We had a cover charge for entering the club and placed portals in several magical friendly cities. The club had bouncers to keep guest to the club itself and stop fights if some one permently contrubeded PPE to the place they could live in the resort or use it as a shelter for their imediat family if the CS got close. The clubs cover charged funded construction of TW devices, the club had a faster pasing time but you did not age there. Our secert TW tank force was stuck in the doman during the final siege, thus preventing us from stoping the fall of tolkeen.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:... Where's this from, exactly? Just curious, ive never seen any of that stuff before.

Rifts: Adventure Guide my friend. An AWESOME book for GMs who want to keep their game "grounded" and balanced.

Akashic Soldier wrote:

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:... Where's this from, exactly? Just curious, ive never seen any of that stuff before.

Rifts: Adventure Guide my friend. An AWESOME book for GMs who want to keep their game "grounded" and balanced.

astral lords and astral mages can be found in the rifts adventure guide? 0.o

....

huh. i would never have guessed. i didn't think it had ever been printed outside of between the shadows...

ok only going to costs of gear and such. not hiring people and labor, Though I would dig a moute and set patrols as well as a town alarm system, weekly drills on readieness, and stock piling emrgency food and water. , sandbagging the walls of reactor, important buildings and the town walls.
Searchlights 1 per tower, 2 at the gates.
A.NG anti-personnel mines 600cr each 4d6 mdc to 40ft area. (pg101 mercs) x40=24,000
B.CAI-50 challanger light combat armor (pg144 mercs) 90kcr- heavy point defense , pilot gets pilot robot combat benifits plus hth decent armor, can be repowered at nuke station at town.
C.Vampire combat Armor mark II 89,500cr (pg70 merc ops)- heavy combat, PA bonouses, recharge at nuclear station anti-vampire work, heavy armor, Only one suit leaves town at a time.
(296500 left)
D. The "Bandito" 38mdc main body non eba (pg177 new west) X9 suits= 90k
E. Radar Detector 200 credits(pg 190 gmg) X2- set as far apart as possible on the walls of town- early warning for anything running their radar- range one mile.
F. Ground Sensor System (pg 190GMG) 18,500cr- range up to 10 miles ,early warning system.
G. WR-15 wilderness laser rifle 18,000cr (pg169 GMG) x4- 1 per robot, 1 per side of walls- huge payload (40 shots per eclip) +1 to strike if fired two handed decent range, Rate of fire standard so you could do a burst if need be.
(115600-left)
H. 7.62mm "assualt" rifles 900cr (pg128 GMG) X9=8100cr- to be filled with ramjets
I. Ramjet rounds 9000 of em- 5cr each -4500- light mdc enemys and sdc foes.
K. wooden stakes and mallets for possible vampires= free, also garlic and if possible holy water all free.......
L.NG-33 laser pistols x 10- good payload decent range its mdc laser damedge.
M.Eclips 8 extras at 5k a peice

Anouther thought would be ditch thoose laser pistols and get more armor and sdc rifles with ramjets. being able to refill the eclips at the nuclear power plant is nice.
The mines make ground assualt rugged and the two power armors can do alot knowing where the mines are and avoding them. lots of attacks and good speed for reconisense.

Shark_Force wrote:huh. i would never have guessed. i didn't think it had ever been printed outside of between the shadows...

Isn't his quote for the guy mentioning the point buy system?

Akashic Soldier wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:huh. i would never have guessed. i didn't think it had ever been printed outside of between the shadows...

Isn't his quote for the guy mentioning the point buy system?

ummm... sort of?

it's point buy... for creating astral domains (ie domains in the astral plane).

hence why you can purchase various levels of physical laws, a site on an inner plane nexus, and why you have to pay 30 points for 2 portals as opposed to the 0 you would expect to pay for 2 doors into a normal town

so i take it that the rules for astral lords and astral mages and creating astral domains are *not* in the rifts adventure guide, then was wondering how i could've missed hearing about that for so long, now i know it's because it isn't in there after all.

Shark_Force wrote:

Akashic Soldier wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:huh. i would never have guessed. i didn't think it had ever been printed outside of between the shadows...

Isn't his quote for the guy mentioning the point buy system?

ummm... sort of?

it's point buy... for creating astral domains (ie domains in the astral plane).

hence why you can purchase various levels of physical laws, a site on an inner plane nexus, and why you have to pay 30 points for 2 portals as opposed to the 0 you would expect to pay for 2 doors into a normal town

so i take it that the rules for astral lords and astral mages and creating astral domains are *not* in the rifts adventure guide, then was wondering how i could've missed hearing about that for so long, now i know it's because it isn't in there after all.

Yes as far as I know, they leave it open to creating your own laws of physics for the domain, if you have the points you can enable MDC then block MDC and finaly make your residents immune to the rule blocking MDC, making a suit of plastic man armor and wilks laser pistole real scary to some astral baddies.

In Merc Ops, there's a great Wilks portable radar, 10 mile range, cheap as hell.

The astral domain is a good idea. Short of that, I've got some questions myself.

1. What classes are the characters?
2. How permanent must this be?
3. How much time do we have to create this?
4. Are we close to a ley line nexus?

If there's a TW in the party, I'm going with that, and I'll TW convert a bunch of pistols to be laser pistols or something.
If there's a Mystic Kuznya we have lots of hand weapons and armor.
If there's an Operator or Psi-Tech Alien we're going to build those weapons and make that nuclear reactor a 'don't mess with us, we have a doomsday device' threat.
If there's a Shifter, we have summoned creatures.
If there's a Psi-Stalker, we're going to tame and train ourselves some Fury Beetles and the like.
If there's a Stone Master, we've got MUCH higher walls and other defensive capabilities.
If there's an earth warlock, then we've got plenty of ironwood to build up our defenses and build weapons. We can also permanently bind elementals to structures.
If there are Biomancers, we have defensive items and weapons that can be made.
How many golems can be created? How many zombies?
Does anyone have the chemistry skill? If so, we're now living in ExplosivesVille.
Do we have time to TRAIN mages? If so, they're toast.

Is it a pure CS party? If so, I'd use that cash to lobby the CS and get us some official protection. Just radio it in!

"Safe House! Safe House! We've got known hostiles at 2KM! They have two robot vehicles, twenty or so power armor suits, two APCs...wait...make it three APCs, and what appears to be about a hundred armored soldiers visible and on foot! Contents of the APC are unknown. They are moving in on official CS territory as hostiles!"

About twenty minutes later there are about eighty SAMAS in the air and about twenty minutes after that, there are about three hundred Skelebots roaming around looking for holdouts.

Last but not least...

If there is a Diabolist...well...God forbid an enemy EVER enter a place where I've had a Diabolist and time to prepare, because it'd be ugly, and I'd not stay outside to watch.

Subjugator wrote:The astral domain is a good idea. Short of that, I've got some questions myself.

1. What classes are the characters?

I was thinking say a NA apropriate mage, a Master Psychic, a pair of Adventurer classes and a couple of Man at Arms classes.

2. How permanent must this be?

This is a permanent settlement so the defenses must last for a while.

3. How much time do we have to create this?

Say six months to a year.

4. Are we close to a ley line nexus?

You are a day or so travel from a Ley line.

And as I said earlier you are outside of CS territory.

When shopping for gear and items, what kind of availability can we assume access to?
As in, if we can afford the list price can, we safely assume that we can buy it?

Killer Cyborg wrote:When shopping for gear and items, what kind of availability can we assume access to?
As in, if we can afford the list price can, we safely assume that we can buy it?

As long as it's NA apropriate yes.

Thoughts for those working on the challenge harder than I am:

what do yo consider a better idea? 10-12 guys in "real"/good armor with laser rifles or 40 guys in light armor with light uprated SDC weapons (ramjets/etc)

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Thoughts for those working on the challenge harder than I am:

what do yo consider a better idea? 10-12 guys in "real"/good armor with laser rifles or 40 guys in light armor with light uprated SDC weapons (ramjets/etc)

Its hard to say if you ask me, i put down 2 ultra light pa's,9 mdc armor sets. And a goodly number of upscaled sdc weapons. Realistically as you dont know what your threat is before hand all you can do is prepare for as many eventualies as possible.

In the lay out I did there is a mine field, 9 armored guards, 2 pa's, a simie long range ground detection network, some anti vampire stuff, and cheap weapons and no armor for the rest.
Id say my biggest gap is air power, long range attack, and about no. Protection from heavily magical threats.
For 500k you can stop or prepare for everything, just hope for the best and stay together as a community.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Thoughts for those working on the challenge harder than I am:

what do yo consider a better idea? 10-12 guys in "real"/good armor with laser rifles or 40 guys in light armor with light uprated SDC weapons (ramjets/etc)

well with 100 families units that whould place it at around 200-300 adualts. So 3-5% in real good armor is not to bad. or you have what 13-20% in light armor. Do not have the book but rember some one had a book for generating a town with avaage avaible MDC how does those% stack up in that?

Horible Idea you might be able to get the the gear as a loan from nurni with a 500K down payment. Just do not be late. (think that is how they expand)

Well, if all we're talking about is making the town safe from wandering monsters, Simvan, and the occasional opportunistic bandits, you dont need overwhelming firepower.

Bandits will bug right off when the town returns fire with Ramjets - it will indicate to them that they will take some lumps but that the inhabitants dont have anything worth stealing, so its not even worth it.

Wandering MDC animals/monsters dont really require a lot of heavy firepower to kill them - so the Ramjets will do just fine, especially since most of them wont be able to get inside the walls.

Simvan might be the onlything resembling a real threat.

I'm leaning towards a large militia with light armor and primarily updated SDC weapons, and maybe a couple of crew-served larger SDC weapons that do really decent damage on bursts on the walls. I didn't catch how cheap the mines were - those are definitely a great price/performance item.

When defending walls, the light nature of the armor doesn't seem like it would be as important to me, and the volume of fire from 40 guys shooting you for light MDC is likely to be more effective than 9-10 guys with energy weapons with far more limited payloads.

Im still just half-heartedly spitballing here, as i have lots of other projects on the burner right now, including finally finishing Witcher 2. I like KCs questions about using the abilities of PCs to create items. Ill see what i can do about optimal party makeup to create the best items at the least cost - that could really extend that 500k. Particularly if you can create light MDC armor for cheap or nearly free - because that's the largest cost of equipping your militia by far at 10kish per person.

One more question for those more in the know:

Do TW weapons require you to be a magic user/psychic to fire them, or merely charge them?

If merely to charge them.....

TW weapons could be a huge equalizer, providing good MDC damage for cheap if created by a PC, and if there is so much as a single minor psychic resident in the town to keep them charged...

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:One more question for those more in the know:

Do TW weapons require you to be a magic user/psychic to fire them, or merely charge them?

If merely to charge them.....

TW weapons could be a huge equalizer, providing good MDC damage for cheap if created by a PC, and if there is so much as a single minor psychic resident in the town to keep them charged...

By defualt yes, you have to be in order to use them how ever there is a option in rue to remove that safty feature.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Well, if all we're talking about is making the town safe from wandering monsters, Simvan, and the occasional opportunistic bandits, you dont need overwhelming firepower.

Bandits will bug right off when the town returns fire with Ramjets - it will indicate to them that they will take some lumps but that the inhabitants dont have anything worth stealing, so its not even worth it.

Wandering MDC animals/monsters dont really require a lot of heavy firepower to kill them - so the Ramjets will do just fine, especially since most of them wont be able to get inside the walls.

Simvan might be the onlything resembling a real threat.

I'm leaning towards a large militia with light armor and primarily updated SDC weapons, and maybe a couple of crew-served larger SDC weapons that do really decent damage on bursts on the walls. I didn't catch how cheap the mines were - those are definitely a great price/performance item.

When defending walls, the light nature of the armor doesn't seem like it would be as important to me, and the volume of fire from 40 guys shooting you for light MDC is likely to be more effective than 9-10 guys with energy weapons with far more limited payloads.

Im still just half-heartedly spitballing here, as i have lots of other projects on the burner right now, including finally finishing Witcher 2. I like KCs questions about using the abilities of PCs to create items. Ill see what i can do about optimal party makeup to create the best items at the least cost - that could really extend that 500k. Particularly if you can create light MDC armor for cheap or nearly free - because that's the largest cost of equipping your militia by far at 10kish per person.

Yeah I was also really surprised how cheap the mines are, and with a 40 foot blast radius you can create a great sized effect for low cost.

The only thing i can say about the ramjets is the need for an outside supplier, with the functioning nuke plant the eclips become self sustainable.

Also the spot light i could find a price for thoose, but if you paint a cross on them they do double duty as anti vampire gear.

I ment could not find the price on the spot lights by the way

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:I like KCs questions about using the abilities of PCs to create items.

Um...KC's?

/Sub

Zamion138 wrote:I ment could not find the price on the spot lights by the way

Merc Ops, page:107. They have the Wilk's High Powered Laser Floodlight for 8,500 credits.

Mercenaries has a Vehicle spotlight for 200 credits.

Vampire Kingdoms 1st ed, has Cross spotlights.

Flashlight: 15 credits
Vehicle spotlight 75 credits
Aircraft signal spotlight: 2,000 credits.

If the town has a functional well, some piping and a few pumps = firehoses spaces around the walls and in town just in case there's some vampire problems for probably only a few thousand credits total.

Rockwolf66 wrote:

Zamion138 wrote:I ment could not find the price on the spot lights by the way

Merc Ops, page:107. They have the Wilk's High Powered Laser Floodlight for 8,500 credits.

Mercenaries has a Vehicle spotlight for 200 credits.

Vampire Kingdoms 1st ed, has Cross spotlights.

Flashlight: 15 credits
Vehicle spotlight 75 credits
Aircraft signal spotlight: 2,000 credits.

hmmm well id go with the viecheal spot light.....2k seems a bit steep for lights.

Subjugator wrote:If there's an earth warlock, then we've got plenty of ironwood to build up our defenses and build weapons. We can also permanently bind elementals to structures.

*cough*

ummm...

not sure you've ever looked too closely at earth warlocks, but...

1) plenty of ironwood is a bit of an overstatement. by which i mean, it's a high level spell, and certainly not something that just any old earth warlock will have.

2) an earth warlock is much more likely to free elementals from having been bound to structures, and punish those responsible for doing it, than to bind elementals to structures. in fact, binding elementals to do anything, or indeed even *asking* elementals to stick around for more than a couple of days, is not something an earth warlock should be doing for the most part.

I recall Ironwood being substantially lower level for Earth Warlocks. I could be wrong, i guess. And Warlocks get access to spells automatically as they level, unless im just completely addled.

Subjugator wrote:

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:I like KCs questions about using the abilities of PCs to create items.

Um...KC's?

/Sub

Yeah, yeah, that's my fault. I was posting while taking a brief dinner break from trying to finish up Witcher 2 before the weekend was over. Mah bad.

Hmm... Too many unknowns to make a good estimate. We need information on local plant life, local wildlife, foliage, brush cover, terrain for the surrounding 20 miles, and a list of tradable resources that the town has to gauge how much the town will have access to for renewing their ammunition supplies, as well as repairs.

Shark_Force wrote:

Subjugator wrote:If there's an earth warlock, then we've got plenty of ironwood to build up our defenses and build weapons. We can also permanently bind elementals to structures.

*cough*

ummm...

not sure you've ever looked too closely at earth warlocks, but...

1) plenty of ironwood is a bit of an overstatement. by which i mean, it's a high level spell, and certainly not something that just any old earth warlock will have.

2) an earth warlock is much more likely to free elementals from having been bound to structures, and punish those responsible for doing it, than to bind elementals to structures. in fact, binding elementals to do anything, or indeed even *asking* elementals to stick around for more than a couple of days, is not something an earth warlock should be doing for the most part.

I suggest reading Siege on Tolkeen. They're the ones that did it.

/Sub

Rockwolf66 wrote:Ok here is a challange for the forum.

Your characters have been asked to develope the defenses of a walled town of 120 houses. The wall is 10 feet of Mega damage rock with towers on the corners and the front gate. You have been given 500,000 credits to augment the town defences to both detect and discorage the local bandits, Simvan and wandering monsters.

Now by using the various Rifts titles come up with a layered defense that is apropriate for North America.

Use a good chunk of the money to hire a good earth warlock. Really a warlock especially if he has a earth elemental helping out would be capable of building the strongest housing/walls/towers. Just look at the coalition war campaign stuff they have a bunch of warlock built towers/defenses listed there you can use or modify.

Use the money not spent on warlock for weapons for the town guard maybe one or two heavy weapons for gate towers.

The defenses won't be perfect especially vs flying critters but for 500k it is probably the most bang for the buck you can get.

Edit

The warlock won't need to bind the elemental to any building. Just have him help out shape the earth. The CW campaign has a lot of good ideas about this. One really good one for areas heavy with dinos and simvan is basically dragons teeth. Large stalactite type projections of MDC stone like spears. Elementals can rise them up in large numbers easily. Ring the town with them along all but the main road/roads and have those roads take large turns through the field. Any kind of monster mounted infantry would be unable to charge your walls with this and those who try would be forced to come down the road unable to reach a full charging speed and basically in your kill chute for defense.

The earth warlock and his elemental buddy can also easily carve out MDC underground shelters/bunkers. Heck he could hook up every house in the town to it about as easy as the elemental can move so if somebody does get over the wall the towns people could retreat to safety. I would guess most simvan would take one look at trying to chase people into a prepared underground tunnel/bunker system as WAY more effort than it is worth.

Im going to try to do my own treatment, but i had some more detailed questions about resources.

At this point the "mage type" in the group of "PCs" doing the helping is either a Warlock (Earth) or Technowizard. If there's no psychic (however minor) in the town to recharge potential TW Weapons, then its definitely the Warlock.

The Warlock can potentially remove the single largest cost of equipping the town militia - armoring them. Ironwood armor would free up so much money for armaments its not funny. And we're not even getting into their ability to basically grow buildings out of MDC stone right out of the ground with the help of an Elemental or their spells, or provide Ironwood reinforcement to walls, doors, ... the entire town really. For essentially "free".

Id say its reasonable to assume at least 5% of the towns folks are psionicly capable. Just by sheer numbers of randomly generation if you were to roll up the city. Not mind melters or bursters but able to use tw gear and some minor psionic powers here and there.

Zamion138 wrote:Id say its reasonable to assume at least 5% of the towns folks are psionicly capable. Just by sheer numbers of randomly generation if you were to roll up the city. Not mind melters or bursters but able to use tw gear and some minor psionic powers here and there.

All the town needs is a single psychic, however minor, to be able to recharge TW items in-between uses.

Have to think about whats better, a TW gun or ten, or MDC buildings, walls, and potentially armor for "free"ish.

One other interesting option would be a biomancer either lemurian or jungle elf or somebody who learned from them. They have many of the same advantages of warlocks. Easy ability to create permanent free body armor for people, ability to turn trees/wood into MDC structures plus they can make weapons as well. Plus side with the biomancer weapons even the basic ones is most can simply be recharged by being on a leyline for a while and don't actually require PPE pumped into them by a mage/psychic. Plant the town on a small ley line or close to one and you have largely free armor/weapons and depending how you build the town easy access to MDC building materials.

Really any way you cut it if you are looking to protect a whole city on a budget it is really hard to beat magic.

The closer to leyline your town is though and the more frequently crazier stuff will show up. Some that travle on leylines some that feed on them and so on.

kaid wrote:One other interesting option would be a biomancer either lemurian or jungle elf or somebody who learned from them. They have many of the same advantages of warlocks. Easy ability to create permanent free body armor for people, ability to turn trees/wood into MDC structures plus they can make weapons as well. Plus side with the biomancer weapons even the basic ones is most can simply be recharged by being on a leyline for a while and don't actually require PPE pumped into them by a mage/psychic. Plant the town on a small ley line or close to one and you have largely free armor/weapons and depending how you build the town easy access to MDC building materials.

Really any way you cut it if you are looking to protect a whole city on a budget it is really hard to beat magic.

Well, if you have to pay market cost for it, its really easy to beat magic.

But the scenario here is that the town is largely helpless (barring a few minor psychics or whatnot) and a group of adventurers (he laid out some guidelines above) is lending a hand for six months-ish and have been given a budget by the town to get things set up.

One of the guidelines was "relevant to North America" and while you can use the excuse "well my Biomancer guy learned from a blah blah.. " i think the intent was to keep it to OCCs that aren't mostly region-locked, or, if they are, are region-locked to North America.

Otherwise.. Biomancer all the freaking way. Free armor (and thats not even a "craft some armor and hope we get a guy with Ironwood" but just a straight-up ability) and MDC houses/walls made of wood? + weapons that dont require a psychic or mage to recharge? Yes please.

Im thinking Warlock (Earth) is probably the best bet, even if there is a psychic in town to recharge potentially "PC" made-at-cost TW weapons... because with the money saved by potentially have Ironwood to armor the militia and earth elementals and spells to create more fortifications and turn the whole town into MDC buildings is going to be a LOT more useful than even a pile of created-at-cost weapons - you're still going to have to spend a pile of cash on armor in that scenario.....

whereas if you can NOT spend the close to 300k on armor for a large milita... 300k would go a LONG way to better guns (or arming EVERY. SINGLE. ADULT. with Ramjet-capable guns and buying twenty or thirty thousand rounds) and more static defenses like mines and MDC Razor Wire.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

kaid wrote:One other interesting option would be a biomancer either lemurian or jungle elf or somebody who learned from them. They have many of the same advantages of warlocks. Easy ability to create permanent free body armor for people, ability to turn trees/wood into MDC structures plus they can make weapons as well. Plus side with the biomancer weapons even the basic ones is most can simply be recharged by being on a leyline for a while and don't actually require PPE pumped into them by a mage/psychic. Plant the town on a small ley line or close to one and you have largely free armor/weapons and depending how you build the town easy access to MDC building materials.

Really any way you cut it if you are looking to protect a whole city on a budget it is really hard to beat magic.

Well, if you have to pay market cost for it, its really easy to beat magic.

But the scenario here is that the town is largely helpless (barring a few minor psychics or whatnot) and a group of adventurers (he laid out some guidelines above) is lending a hand for six months-ish and have been given a budget by the town to get things set up.

One of the guidelines was "relevant to North America" and while you can use the excuse "well my Biomancer guy learned from a blah blah.. " i think the intent was to keep it to OCCs that aren't mostly region-locked, or, if they are, are region-locked to North America.

Otherwise.. Biomancer all the freaking way. Free armor (and thats not even a "craft some armor and hope we get a guy with Ironwood" but just a straight-up ability) and MDC houses/walls made of wood? + weapons that dont require a psychic or mage to recharge? Yes please.

Im thinking Warlock (Earth) is probably the best bet, even if there is a psychic in town to recharge potentially "PC" made-at-cost TW weapons... because with the money saved by potentially have Ironwood to armor the militia and earth elementals and spells to create more fortifications and turn the whole town into MDC buildings is going to be a LOT more useful than even a pile of created-at-cost weapons - you're still going to have to spend a pile of cash on armor in that scenario.....

whereas if you can NOT spend the close to 300k on armor for a large milita... 300k would go a LONG way to better guns (or arming EVERY. SINGLE. ADULT. with Ramjet-capable guns and buying twenty or thirty thousand rounds) and more static defenses like mines and MDC Razor Wire.

Ya I threw the biomancer out there mainly as something similar to the warlock as an option. But really between warlocks and the native american varient the elemental shaman or hell even elemental fusionists if paid 250k would probably be willing to help turn your town into a fort. For a warlock or elemental shaman with an elemental helping them really doubling the size of your wall/throwing up some durable watch towers and maybe a field of dragons teeth to disuade charging large dinos/rhino buffs would probably be a day or two work. Even for a mid high level warlock 250k is a pretty solid payday for a couple days of work doing something well suited to them. Even for an elemental shaman who has a more friendly relation with the elemental spirits helping a community of peaceful people to defend themselves by manipulating stone is not something that would offend an elemental earth spirit.

I am not even throwing in iron wood armor as that takes time to craft and probably would cost a lot more to get a warlock to do. The things I am talking about especially walls/moat/dragons teeth would be trivially easy for an elemental/spirit to do and hell it probably would be fun for them in as much as such beings have fun. A gigantic tribute to how much a community appreciates your element is a good ego stroke for any spirit.

The point is that we're allowed to create a "party" of adventurers who are helping the town 'at-cost'... so no need to blow the budget.

Creating Ironwood armor wouldn't be that hard. It took me about... two hours to learn how to use water to form plywood or other thin wood into a desired shape. You could have the kids doing it in giant lots. All it takes is some water tanks and a few rocks. Then just have the spellcaster turn them into MDC via Ironwood - each suit probably wouldn't have more than ~40-50MDC and therefore wouldn't take a lot of PPE to convert.

The thing with the party helping it sorta goes against the OP, i think possible erroneously he more ment what items youd buy, having an elemental and a stone mage kinda seems like wishfull thinking.
Almsot like saying well wed dig up the 5 stashed glitterboys just out of town that were hidden there before the comming of the rifts.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:The point is that we're allowed to create a "party" of adventurers who are helping the town 'at-cost'... so no need to blow the budget.

Creating Ironwood armor wouldn't be that hard. It took me about... two hours to learn how to use water to form plywood or other thin wood into a desired shape. You could have the kids doing it in giant lots. All it takes is some water tanks and a few rocks. Then just have the spellcaster turn them into MDC via Ironwood - each suit probably wouldn't have more than ~40-50MDC and therefore wouldn't take a lot of PPE to convert.

Oh I missed that then yes a warlock or native american elemental shaman in the party makes for really easy fort construction. Once the basic MDC shell and basic gross defenses are setup by the warlock 500k would go a long way for protecting the town. If you have an operator it would be pretty easy to rig up energy weapon clip recharging from the towns nuke plant so getting some basic energy weapons with a couple spare eclips. Maybe buy 4 or 5 sets of good environmental body armor for the towns main guards and have the wood armor for the militia to use in case of a big incursion and its nice to have guards who are less vulnerable to sleepy gas type attacks. And the built in optics in many environmental body armor helps for night time guard patrols.

Zamion138 wrote:The thing with the party helping it sorta goes against the OP, i think possible erroneously he more ment what items youd buy, having an elemental and a stone mage kinda seems like wishfull thinking.
Almsot like saying well wed dig up the 5 stashed glitterboys just out of town that were hidden there before the comming of the rifts.

That is one of the reasons I was saying 250k to hire a warlock. I am pretty sure you could find a pretty competent warlock who would be willing for a quarter of a million credits to spend a day or two forting up a town especially when it is a totally non combat request. Given where they are locating it may actually be easier to find a native american elemental shaman but they are functionally similar to the warlock except that they have an easier time summoning their spirits but have to be a bit more respectful of the spirits wants/likes. As long as the town maintains good relations with the native americans in the area I don't think there would be to much problems acquiring ones assistance with a quarter million credits or supplies equal to that amount. That much trade in supplies could keep a whole tribe set pretty well for the winter. Pretty even trade community security for community security.

Rockwolf66 wrote:

Subjugator wrote:The astral domain is a good idea. Short of that, I've got some questions myself.

1. What classes are the characters?

I was thinking say a NA apropriate mage, a Master Psychic, a pair of Adventurer classes and a couple of Man at Arms classes.

2. How permanent must this be?

This is a permanent settlement so the defenses must last for a while.

3. How much time do we have to create this?

Say six months to a year.

4. Are we close to a ley line nexus?

You are a day or so travel from a Ley line.

And as I said earlier you are outside of CS territory.

Quoted out as emphasis -

this is the OP saying flat out that you've got the services of the kindly adventurers ("the party") who are doing this and about six month to a year to work with access to a ley line about a day away.

So your party that is doing the work/organizing this towns defenses can/does include:
A N/A appropriate magician
A Master Psychic (also N/A)
Two Scholar/Adventurers (So, an Operator and ? I'd say WIlderness Scout)
4-ish Men-at-arms types (who can have skills like field fortification/etc and can help direct the construction of additional fortifications as well as provide labor and perhaps even Power Amor/a Robot Vehicle for labor).

Thats all above and beyond the 500k.

So, like i was saying, im leaning towards Warlock (Earth). While a TW could make some modern-energy-weapon-equivalent TW weapons at material cost (I.E. cheap) providing our town with a lot of decent firepower... you'd still have to break the bank supplying body armor, and about all the TW is good for is supplying weapons (unless we're super lucky and the dude also knows Ironwood).

A Warlock is not only a lot more likely to have Ironwood (as they get access to all spells of the level they can cast, if memory serves), he can also turn earth/rock into MDC structures via magic and with the help of elementals, and elementals can help create all sorts of stuff.

As for spending money on EBA - gas mask/filtes are dirt cheap, and having 10-20 Multi-Optic helmets for the guys "on duty" on a given day is also way cheaper than even half a dozen suits of EBA.... and given a *year*, with a ley-line a day away, the entire adult population could be outfitted with "cheap" Ironwood armor that is in the 30-50 MDC range... for free. you could also arm the entire adult population with 7.62mm Assault Rifles for less than 120,000, and buy tens of thousands of rounds of ramjet ammo... and STILL have ~230k left over for things like mines, a radar system (Merc Ops has an absurdly cheap, absurdly good portable system from Wilks that you could buy 2-3 of for lots of coverage), MDC barbed wire, and maybe a dozen heavy-machine guns (.50cal) to emplace on the walls with Heavy Ramjets (that do pretty respectable MD on a burst).

Then on top of that your entire "milita"/police force for the town (about 30-40 guys) can also be armed with pump Shotguns firing APRJ rounds (a paltry 20cr each) that actually do really decent MD out to 500ft, and buy a few dozen loads of plasma explosive shells for the real nasties - get a couple of breach-load double-barrels to use as cheap "grenade" launcers (double-blasts of plasma do decent damage to a decent radius).