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I know there is one or two classes that can charge a e-clip with ppe and then have it count as magic against vampires. Is the mystic knight one of them or did I get confused on this point?

That's the first I've heard of that being counted as a magic attack.

gelidus wrote:I know there is one or two classes that can charge a e-clip with ppe and then have it count as magic against vampires. Is the mystic knight one of them or did I get confused on this point?

The mystic knight cannot, no. they can charge PPE clips but it just counts as normal energy.

I'm not sure what other class you had in mind.

Probably confusing Sea Inquisitors and Mystic Knights

yeah, i don't think there's anyone who can charge an e-clip and make it count as magic.

Shark_Force wrote:yeah, i don't think there's anyone who can charge an e-clip and make it count as magic.

Maybe, if you put an eye of elroy on a laser gun it get infinte ammo, i might allow that as a form of magical attack. Its also a million credits to do so. For a million credits and a gun that attracts cs dog boys like a ham steak id allow it.

Magically provided energy does not make the result of consuming that energy magical.

I have no idea if that statement is supported by canon, but that's certainly how I treat it.

--flatline

Zamion138 wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:yeah, i don't think there's anyone who can charge an e-clip and make it count as magic.

Maybe, if you put an eye of elroy on a laser gun it get infinte ammo, i might allow that as a form of magical attack. Its also a million credits to do so. For a million credits and a gun that attracts cs dog boys like a ham steak id allow it.

Malvoren (sp) can do exactly that

in a modern campaign the sea inquisitor took a nine iron to a local vampire gang. the quickly learned to aviod the docks lol.

Now, it is possible to have a techno-wizard convert a gun to run on PPE INSTEAD OF e-clips, and that I might allow to hurt vampires, ect.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Now, it is possible to have a techno-wizard convert a gun to run on PPE INSTEAD OF e-clips, and that I might allow to hurt vampires, ect.

Given (unless they've changed the text) the book says that the conversion process only changes the power source and everything else is unchanged the gun shouldn't be hurting creatures that require magic to affect because the battery being magic isn't making the attacks magic.

Nightmask wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Now, it is possible to have a techno-wizard convert a gun to run on PPE INSTEAD OF e-clips, and that I might allow to hurt vampires, ect.

Given (unless they've changed the text) the book says that the conversion process only changes the power source and everything else is unchanged the gun shouldn't be hurting creatures that require magic to affect because the battery being magic isn't making the attacks magic.

I don't remember seeing mention of converting power sources in RUE. It was prominent in RMB, so I find that to be a curious omission. We didn't like how converting the power source potentially changed the weapon damage or range, so we ignored that rule and left the weapon characteristics (damage, range, payload, etc) unchanged.

--flatline

flatline wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Now, it is possible to have a techno-wizard convert a gun to run on PPE INSTEAD OF e-clips, and that I might allow to hurt vampires, ect.

Given (unless they've changed the text) the book says that the conversion process only changes the power source and everything else is unchanged the gun shouldn't be hurting creatures that require magic to affect because the battery being magic isn't making the attacks magic.

I don't remember seeing mention of converting power sources in RUE. It was prominent in RMB, so I find that to be a curious omission. We didn't like how converting the power source potentially changed the weapon damage or range, so we ignored that rule and left the weapon characteristics (damage, range, payload, etc) unchanged.

--flatline

That was how the Gizmoteer class handled it as well, not that it wasn't an obvious contradiction in the Rifts book when originally published to state how 'only the power source is changed' for the Techno-Wizard and yet the actual conversion details generic'd all the weapons so that they all had an identical set of abilities no matter what was actually converted.

Nightmask wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Now, it is possible to have a techno-wizard convert a gun to run on PPE INSTEAD OF e-clips, and that I might allow to hurt vampires, ect.

Given (unless they've changed the text) the book says that the conversion process only changes the power source and everything else is unchanged the gun shouldn't be hurting creatures that require magic to affect because the battery being magic isn't making the attacks magic.

I know, that's why I said "I may let", I.E. houserule. I wasn't saying that was the actual rule.

Although it does make me wonder we have two races that can use normal wepaons against vamps what else is there?

I never liked Palladium's take on vampires. I don't mind the regeneration, but I hate the near invulnerability coupled with stupid weaknesses.

--flatline

Almost seems like they needed the super water weakness to justify only having vamps in Mexico lol.

flatline wrote:I never liked Palladium's take on vampires. I don't mind the regeneration, but I hate the near invulnerability coupled with stupid weaknesses.

--flatline

What kind of vampires don't have stupid weaknesses?

Talavar wrote:

flatline wrote:I never liked Palladium's take on vampires. I don't mind the regeneration, but I hate the near invulnerability coupled with stupid weaknesses.

--flatline

What kind of vampires don't have stupid weaknesses?

Very true

Talavar wrote:

flatline wrote:I never liked Palladium's take on vampires. I don't mind the regeneration, but I hate the near invulnerability coupled with stupid weaknesses.

--flatline

What kind of vampires don't have stupid weaknesses?

Actually, the ones in the "Noble Dead" series by Barb and JC Hendee are done rather well.

Jedrious wrote:

Talavar wrote:

flatline wrote:I never liked Palladium's take on vampires. I don't mind the regeneration, but I hate the near invulnerability coupled with stupid weaknesses.

--flatline

What kind of vampires don't have stupid weaknesses?

Actually, the ones in the "Noble Dead" series by Barb and JC Hendee are done rather well.

Vampires as a legendary monster are pretty much defined by their stupid weaknesses - whether it's running water, "special" water, wooden camping equipment, lower case t's, spilled seeds, magic dirt, the colour yellow (that last one might have been Green Lantern), Palladium is hardly alone in having vampires having to worry about some ridiculous stuff.

Talavar wrote:

Jedrious wrote:

Talavar wrote:

flatline wrote:I never liked Palladium's take on vampires. I don't mind the regeneration, but I hate the near invulnerability coupled with stupid weaknesses.

--flatline

What kind of vampires don't have stupid weaknesses?

Actually, the ones in the "Noble Dead" series by Barb and JC Hendee are done rather well.

Vampires as a legendary monster are pretty much defined by their stupid weaknesses - whether it's running water, "special" water, wooden camping equipment, lower case t's, spilled seeds, magic dirt, the colour yellow (that last one might have been Green Lantern), Palladium is hardly alone in having vampires having to worry about some ridiculous stuff.

Yea they just ran with te tradtional vampire weakness instead of tring to use the modern romatisized vampires.

Talavar wrote:

flatline wrote:I never liked Palladium's take on vampires. I don't mind the regeneration, but I hate the near invulnerability coupled with stupid weaknesses.

--flatline

What kind of vampires don't have stupid weaknesses?

Anne Rice's.

Once they get old enough even sunlight can't kill them. And the rest of the classic vampire weaknesses simply don't apply to them.

cornholioprime wrote:

Talavar wrote:

flatline wrote:I never liked Palladium's take on vampires. I don't mind the regeneration, but I hate the near invulnerability coupled with stupid weaknesses.

--flatline

What kind of vampires don't have stupid weaknesses?

Anne Rice's.

Once they get old enough even sunlight can't kill them. And the rest of the classic vampire weaknesses simply don't apply to them.

I don't know, being crushed by your own ennui and self-absorption could still be considered a stupid weakness....

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Now, it is possible to have a techno-wizard convert a gun to run on PPE INSTEAD OF e-clips, and that I might allow to hurt vampires, ect.

I would say yes because at that point you are shooting magic not lasers or whatever. Still if you are going to TW a weapon up make a good TW super soaker if you are fighting vamps.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Now, it is possible to have a techno-wizard convert a gun to run on PPE INSTEAD OF e-clips, and that I might allow to hurt vampires, ect.

Especially since it would be shooting sun light.

flatline wrote:I never liked Palladium's take on vampires. I don't mind the regeneration, but I hate the near invulnerability coupled with stupid weaknesses.

--flatline

Working on that.

I just want to know where Palladium got water as bothering Vampires.

SittingBull wrote:I just want to know where Palladium got water as bothering Vampires.

Vampires can't cross running water in most RL lore so they inflated that to the idea that running water even from a water pistol is harmful to them.

Nightmask wrote:

SittingBull wrote:I just want to know where Palladium got water as bothering Vampires.

Vampires can't cross running water in most RL lore so they inflated that to the idea that running water even from a water pistol is harmful to them.

Also in "lost boys" water hurts vampires...though they did put garlic in said water.......i base my life on the arch types presented to us in lost boys hehehehe

Zamion138 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

SittingBull wrote:I just want to know where Palladium got water as bothering Vampires.

Vampires can't cross running water in most RL lore so they inflated that to the idea that running water even from a water pistol is harmful to them.

Also in "lost boys" water hurts vampires...though they did put garlic in said water.......i base my life on the arch types presented to us in lost boys hehehehe

Check out Monster Squad, Fat Kid drives off Dracula with a garlic-heavy slice of pizza. In the novel One Foot In The Grave (where WM. Mark Simmons shows a scary amount of research into all kinds of vampire lore around the world and details a fair amount of it) garlic oil is used to incapacitate the protagonist as he's a semi-vampire (he's somehow stuck partway through the transformation, still having some human features but also subject to some vampire vulnerabilities).

SittingBull wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Now, it is possible to have a techno-wizard convert a gun to run on PPE INSTEAD OF e-clips, and that I might allow to hurt vampires, ect.

Especially since it would be shooting sun light.

Actually, TW's are specifically barred from doing that with globe of daylight. mostly because globe of daylight can't hurt vampires period.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

SittingBull wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Now, it is possible to have a techno-wizard convert a gun to run on PPE INSTEAD OF e-clips, and that I might allow to hurt vampires, ect.

Especially since it would be shooting sun light.

Actually, TW's are specifically barred from doing that with globe of daylight. mostly because globe of daylight can't hurt vampires period.

Which I have always found to be ridiculous. It's still sunlight, only with the TW enhancements it is amplified to do real damage.

except the point is globe of daylight isn't real sunlight so amplifying it can't make it so.

Or you could just get an air warlock to cast globe of true daylight, which would work

Nightmask wrote:

SittingBull wrote:I just want to know where Palladium got water as bothering Vampires.

Vampires can't cross running water in most RL lore so they inflated that to the idea that running water even from a water pistol is harmful to them.

Wow I have gamed for almost 30 years and never heard that.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

SittingBull wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Now, it is possible to have a techno-wizard convert a gun to run on PPE INSTEAD OF e-clips, and that I might allow to hurt vampires, ect.

Especially since it would be shooting sun light.

Actually, TW's are specifically barred from doing that with globe of daylight. mostly because globe of daylight can't hurt vampires period.

But its real sunlight? Lightblade uses globe of daylight.

Zamion138 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

SittingBull wrote:I just want to know where Palladium got water as bothering Vampires.

Vampires can't cross running water in most RL lore so they inflated that to the idea that running water even from a water pistol is harmful to them.

Also in "lost boys" water hurts vampires...though they did put garlic in said water.......i base my life on the arch types presented to us in lost boys hehehehe

Not normal water though, they lived on coast in their cave. >.>

Wrong thread...

SittingBull wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

SittingBull wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Now, it is possible to have a techno-wizard convert a gun to run on PPE INSTEAD OF e-clips, and that I might allow to hurt vampires, ect.

Especially since it would be shooting sun light.

Actually, TW's are specifically barred from doing that with globe of daylight. mostly because globe of daylight can't hurt vampires period.

But its real sunlight? Lightblade uses globe of daylight.

Lightblade is actually a spell in and of itself. Lightblade the TW item has globe of daylight in the chain of power source, but has nothing to do with the actual effect.

and either way, lightblade TW item can't destroy vamps permanently, it can just damage them as per the magical lightblade spell.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

SittingBull wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

SittingBull wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Now, it is possible to have a techno-wizard convert a gun to run on PPE INSTEAD OF e-clips, and that I might allow to hurt vampires, ect.

Especially since it would be shooting sun light.

Actually, TW's are specifically barred from doing that with globe of daylight. mostly because globe of daylight can't hurt vampires period.

But its real sunlight? Lightblade uses globe of daylight.

Lightblade is actually a spell in and of itself. Lightblade the TW item has globe of daylight in the chain of power source, but has nothing to do with the actual effect.

and either way, lightblade TW item can't destroy vamps permanently, it can just damage them as per the magical lightblade spell.

I stand corrected. Why does the item even have globe of daylight then as a spell needed?

Because in the origional Rifts TW rules, it was stated that all TW devices need a power source spell in the chain that drives the device, in addition to the actual effects. in fact, the entire starting TW list of spells was SOLELY power source spells, and they had to go out and learn any actual effect spells they wanted to use.

This requirement was done away with in RUE entirely, and their starting spell list has many more options, however, the TW items that were already made did not have their spell chains altered to remove "power source" spells that have no purpose in the device. that's why you'll notice that every TW item that was copied and pasted from first edition contains such a spell, even if it makes no obvious sense. for instance, magic optic system requires energy bolt dispite not doing damage, communications band has globe of daylight dispite emitting no light, ect. the Lightblade weapon was from a very eairly rifter and made using the "all TW devices must use one of the TW's starting spells as a power source" rule.

Talavar wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

Talavar wrote:

flatline wrote:I never liked Palladium's take on vampires. I don't mind the regeneration, but I hate the near invulnerability coupled with stupid weaknesses.

--flatline

What kind of vampires don't have stupid weaknesses?

Anne Rice's.

Once they get old enough even sunlight can't kill them. And the rest of the classic vampire weaknesses simply don't apply to them.

I don't know, being crushed by your own ennui and self-absorption could still be considered a stupid weakness....

The point in her novels, about that particular aspect of being immortal, was to keep on loving and living for others.

I always get the names of The Twins mixed up (Mekare and Maharet, one of them utterly mindless) and forget which one is which, but the one that took care of her extended family and kept watch over them, over the millennia, was arguably the most sane vampire of them all.

Zamion138 wrote:in "lost boys" water hurts vampires...though they did put garlic in said water.......i base my life on the arch types presented to us in lost boys hehehehe

I believe the water they soaked the garlic in (they had it in a bath tub if I recall) was also holy too, wasn't it? Like blessed by a priest or something?