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supreme-evil wrote:I just have an inspiration. You know the current war going on between the devils and demons right now?

What if a Supreme Evil Villain is born with both the devils and demons as its servants and its primary goal is to wipe out or conquer both devils and demons from the face of the universe so that it can reign as the Supreme Evil Villain God of all times?

This sound like a great plot hook!

What are your ideas for how the Supreme Evil Villain God would be like?

I think someone already created the character sheet for Bill Gates

Would Skullytor constitute plagiarism?

They already have those, they're called great old ones.

MaxxSterling wrote:They already have those, they're called great old ones.

shhhh, they're sleeping, don't wake them! Actually, my old GM named his cat after one (Xy, iirc)!

Btw, there is a good overview of them on wikipedia.

The Ultimate Supreme Villian is one, who when the GM rolls his actions, strides into the room where the players are gaming, casually offs the GM in impossible fashion, sits down behind the GM's screen and materials, then cooly tells the players "Roll new characters. No, not for the next game, for the next LIFE."

Such a villian also would look like Alan Rickman.

Well, with a few changes to his motivation, I have a demi-god Shifter I call Sethem, who's dimension hopped around and gathered up a retinue of demonic beings from across the Megaverse. He is the son of the Aztec Goddess of vice and sin, and he makes his mother proud.

Currently he is hunting for a young girl (a Tolkeen refugee) who is seven months pregnant with his child. What exactly he plans to do with the child is up in the air, but enacting some kind of empowering ritual would not be out of the question.

His most constant minions include a Brakkana (Aliens Unlimited) who acts as his bodyguard, and enjoys killing Tirrvol Sword-fists, a Dakini demon woman (Dark Conversions) with a goth-lolita look, and an Entrancer (Wormwood) who feeds off the misery the group spreads. Note, these three are not bound to Sethem's will, but follow because they enjoy his company. The rest of his retinue, and his 'Mercenary Group', I haven't fleshed out yet.

If the Old Ones aren't evil enough for you, I'm not sure you're going to find anything in Palladium's products that will suit your desires.

The closest canon answer I can think of is the Dominators of the Phase World books.

My only other suggestion is to consider the Chaos Gods of Warhammer 40k (and fantasy, I think). Blood, decay, change, and obsessive pleasure can be pretty evil. Check out the Grey Knights novels. Some of the chaos gods' demonic servants are so awful that the Imperium destroys member planets to banish their influence. That's about as extreme as it gets in the published material I've seen.

Call of Cthulhu is a good source of creepy scarry evil. But one of the absolute worst most horrifying evils I have found in my games tends to be mortals, the mortal capacity for cruelty, ruthlessness, indifference, and greed can be astounding. Finding out that someone is trying to exterminate an entire sentiant species simply because the tears of the last member of that race shed as they die can be used as a spell component (or food seasoning) is a horrifying evil that will be long remembered.

supreme-evil wrote:I think maybe I said the wrong thing back there. LOL. In my humble opinion, the Ultimate Supreme Villain doesn't have to be the most evil villain in the entire megaverse but he certainly has to be the most powerful.

See, i was rifting through the books over the weekend looking at the war between the devil and demons and an idea suddenly popped into my head.

What if the Celestial Heavens or something commission an extremely powerful being with the powers to capture and command both devils and demons and the chinese infernals from china book 1 yama kings/mystic china and use these "reformed enlightened" demons/devils/infernals as soldiers in an all out war to eradicate all forms of evil from the megaverse?

AKA Judgement Day.

And of course in an attempt to eradicate all forms of evil in the form of Judgement Day, some innocents might die along the way and this is where some misguided goody shoes heroes might get in the way of this Celestial Demonic Armies of Judgement which will result in battles between these misguided goody shoes and the Celestial Demons.

Please do not post your views on how the Celestial Heavens will never allow Demons in their armies as this is not a thread to discuss morality. This is a thread to discuss the world of Rifts Earth where the so-called goody shoes heroes have proved to be such big imbecile idiots that they have surrendered the future of Rifts Earth to the evil and darkness.

Which is why the Celestial Heaven decides that the Biggest Most Powerful Evil must be formed in order to destroy the current evil on Rifts Earth and the Megaverse. Such an Ultimate Supreme Villain is Aberrant and most if not all of his troops are Aberrant of course for if you were to work for the Celestial Heaven, you have to adhere to a code of honor and justice. So the Ultimate Supreme Villain and his demons/devils/infernals are more anti-heroes than villains although the boundaries are certainly blurred.

Btw, I based my idea upon the idea of Armageddon(the Bibilical One not the one in Rifts Africa although both are similar) and Lord Shiva, the God of Destruction in the Hindu Pantheon. Both concepts are written around the theme that Earth and Humanity has become so corrupt, selfish and greedy (which the world of Rifts Earth certainly is) that Judgement Day by the Gods of Death and Destruction must be called so that every soul on Earth will be Judged.

The Celestial Heavens wouldn't do that though, everything's run by an impersonal bureaucracy and everything, good and evil, has an assigned place. Setting out on such a campaign wouldn't be in keeping with their assigned roles.

Uh, just because you don't like his answer doesn't mean you get to dictate his contribution. Also I don't quite get how you would judge the Old Ones to be insufficiently powerful - they're not defined in game terms, the minor old one in one of the Palladium adventures basically was unbeatable mind to mind and it wasn't yet free. It took a massive battle across dimensions between pretty much all supernatural forces of note to put them to sleep, which has to then be maintained by gods at the heads of various pantheons, like Brahma and that 4D Persian deity, carrying out regular ppe expenditures on an epic scale to maintain this slumber and they only won because Xy, power incarnate, was tricked into stepping into a power circle of transformation of his own creation. See rifts conversion book 2 and rifts Africa. The lord of the deep and nxla are described as puny shadows of these beings. Maybe you'd find something useful in Rifter 9.5's giga damage article? If you don't like the old ones as villains, that makes sense, but for power..? Or you could look at the Mulka in rifts manhunter

supreme-evil wrote:I think maybe I said the wrong thing back there. LOL. In my humble opinion, the Ultimate Supreme Villain doesn't have to be the most evil villain in the entire megaverse but he certainly has to be the most powerful.

Well, while not exactly "evil" (Anarchist with leanings towards miscreant), Thraxus from Phase World is listed as being the most wealthy in the Three Galaxies, which I would argue makes him probably the most influential, and thus most powerful perhaps?

Exlipse wrote:...and that 4D Persian deity...

I believe you are referring to Zurvan, the god of time?

supreme-evil wrote:

Nightmask wrote:The Celestial Heavens wouldn't do that though, everything's run by an impersonal bureaucracy and everything, good and evil, has an assigned place. Setting out on such a campaign wouldn't be in keeping with their assigned roles.

As I said before, this is not a thread to discuss morality. You are detracting from the main focus of this thread which is .. what kind of an Aberrant Ultimate Supreme Evil God would the Celestial Heavens raise if they want to wipe out all forms of evil on Rifts Earth.

I have no idea how you think morality was even remotely being discussed when pointing out that they're an impersonal bureaucracy, particularly when you asked to handwave away the issue of the morality the Celestial Heavens using demons for its army and my point has nothing to do with that.

easy you take Mister Mxyzptlk and mix with cthulhu and Q from TNG, with the hand to hand skills of the shedder, and the attitude of a evil honey badger

a normal guy with infinite credits and a strong dislike of the characters. lux lethor type i guess. "i can just pay someone to do that."

Old ones not powerful enough? This sounds like a job for...

The 10th Legion!

Oh yes. I summoned it. Cue "Down with the Sickness", and may munchkins have mercy on my soul.

Hotrod wrote:Old ones not powerful enough? This sounds like a job for...

The 10th Legion!

Oh yes. I summoned it. Cue "Down with the Sickness", and may munchkins have mercy on my soul.

I'm sure the (un)enlightened immortal dragon god with 81 perfect copies each with over a million Chi and legions of Splurgorth servants would take exception with the suggestion that the Legion is anywhere in its league.

It would, but I think the author of THAT thread deleted it.

I think what he's going for is a being of pure good, but twisted. Something that believes that it can make the Megaverse a better place, and will proceed to do it.

Even if it means drowning the Megaverse in its own blood.

Such a being wouldn't consider himself evil. This is something similar to the old Doc Feral alignment of Principled, but insane.

Johnnycat93 wrote:

Hotrod wrote:It would, but I think the author of THAT thread deleted it.

Nope, it's still there. Waiting
Watching
Silently from the shadows
Looking for an opportunity to strike
And....

BOOM!
You get assassinated by a 6'2" German/Apache Indian that you never seemed to have noticed.

Oh man, you made him mad, he might be coming to destroy your planet now.

It's such a shame that that thread got deleted. It had some of my best posts ever.

Oh, I know the 10th Legion is still around; I was referring to the dragon god guy's thread about 10 billion Atlanteans trying to prevent time travel to the past. It had real potential to become almost as much of a legend on this board as the 10th Legion. The original post must have been deleted.

for our game which lasted since 92 until last year a certain dark scientist(!#@&^) got hold of the !@#@!$ crsytal(copyrighted item) so a super genius with an all powerful artifact worked for a long long time.sometimes benefactor sometimes bane. always a pain in the @$$

supreme-evil wrote:As I said before, this is not a thread to discuss morality. You are detracting from the main focus of this thread which is .. what kind of an Aberrant Ultimate Supreme Evil God would the Celestial Heavens raise if they want to wipe out all forms of evil on Rifts Earth.

He's not discussing morality. He's discussing functionality.

Most people have this misconception that the Celestial Heaven is a kind and benevolent place. Well it is not based from my understanding of things. While the beings and gods in the Celestial Heaven may be kind and benevolent, the tests and trials which they throw at us mortals are evil and severe.

Yeah, that's not what he was saying. He was saying that Celestial Heaven is a bureaucracy...that it would not seek to destroy good or evil. It's not a matter of morality, but a matter of function.

/Sub

Go with an angry and aberrant Mulka.

*yawn*.........the letter G

supreme-evil wrote:Thank you all for your answers. But I really need some serious brainstorming ideas. In my opinions, the Old Ones are not evil enough to be the Ultimate Supreme Villain. The truly Ultimate Supreme Villain would use material from all material in the Palladium line if you get my drift. I will elaborate on my ideas later cos my ideas are really foggy right now and I can't write them out.

But if anyone can chip in with ideas for how the Ultimate Supreme Villain will be like, this thread will be a great resource for GMs wanting to test and torture their players. Hehehe.

Wait something that if woken up can destroy all creation and where only stoped by the combine forces of all that is good do not meet your standards?

Blue_Lion wrote:

supreme-evil wrote:Thank you all for your answers. But I really need some serious brainstorming ideas. In my opinions, the Old Ones are not evil enough to be the Ultimate Supreme Villain. The truly Ultimate Supreme Villain would use material from all material in the Palladium line if you get my drift. I will elaborate on my ideas later cos my ideas are really foggy right now and I can't write them out.

But if anyone can chip in with ideas for how the Ultimate Supreme Villain will be like, this thread will be a great resource for GMs wanting to test and torture their players. Hehehe.

Wait something that if woken up can destroy all creation and where only stoped by the combine forces of all that is good do not meet your standards?

The Old Ones are only semi evil. Quasi evil, even. What he needs is, ah yes I know, Dr. Evil!

Mercury wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:

supreme-evil wrote:Thank you all for your answers. But I really need some serious brainstorming ideas. In my opinions, the Old Ones are not evil enough to be the Ultimate Supreme Villain. The truly Ultimate Supreme Villain would use material from all material in the Palladium line if you get my drift. I will elaborate on my ideas later cos my ideas are really foggy right now and I can't write them out.

But if anyone can chip in with ideas for how the Ultimate Supreme Villain will be like, this thread will be a great resource for GMs wanting to test and torture their players. Hehehe.

Wait something that if woken up can destroy all creation and where only stoped by the combine forces of all that is good do not meet your standards?

The Old Ones are only semi evil. Quasi evil, even. What he needs is, ah yes I know, Dr. Evil!

I am confused at how they are semi eveil when the when they wake up is supose to be the end of every thing.

@supreme-evil -

15th level Godling choosing Technowizard and psychic twice (all minors and 5 supers or all from 2 minor categories and 10 supers). That gives you all spells levels 1-15 as well as most psychic abilities at 15th level strength.

Conversely you could choose magic twice with TW and Temporal Magic and psychic once (2 full categories or one category and 5 supers) giving you all Invocations levels 1-15 and all temporal spells along with a large selection of psychic abilities.

TW as the magic option also gives you the ability to make all kinds of magic "technology" thus not needing actual technology.

Hotrod wrote:Old ones not powerful enough? This sounds like a job for...

The 10th Legion!

Oh yes. I summoned it. Cue "Down with the Sickness", and may munchkins have mercy on my soul.

You win. That made me laugh.

The ultimate evil in the megaverse is already statted out on page 15 of After the Bomb: Mutants of the Yucatan so I don't know why we're discussing it.

Justin Bieber.

notafraid2die wrote:

say652 wrote:Justin Bieber.

(Gut in pain from laughing so hard) Truly. The Ultimate Evil. That or the cast of Twilight.

Twilight.......yea @#$%^&* love that !@#$ lol

Just go with your gut! The ultimate evil is a giant ape that throws barrels at people!

a supernatural creature that can only be hurt by energy with a ring that makes them impervious to energy.

supreme-evil wrote:What if a Supreme Evil Villain is born with both the devils and demons as its servants

Ever taken a look at Alistair Dunscon? He's got both working for him. Though it's a bit unbalanced since it's 1 lesser Deevil and 2 greater Demons. PLUS an unnamed Succubus (lesser Demon, probably Alistair's bedmate). Something tells me some unfair shady things might've occurred once the Minion War started up.

MaxxSterling wrote:They already have those, they're called great old ones.

No silly GOOey sleepers plz.

Mercdog wrote:I have a demi-god Shifter I call Sethem, son of the Aztec Goddess of vice and sin, hunting for a young girl seven months pregnant with his child.

This makes me wonder, what would the spawn of a mortal and a demigod be called? Or a demigod and a god? 1/4 or 3/4 gods? This could get complicated. Anyway, there's always a witch pact bro.

Mercdog wrote:a Dakini demon woman (Dark Conversions) with a goth-lolita look.

Is she jealous of the Tolkeen girl?

supreme-evil wrote:What if the Celestial Heavens or something commission an extremely powerful being with the powers to capture and command both devils and demons and the chinese infernals from china book 1 yama kings/mystic china and use these "reformed enlightened" demons/devils/infernals as soldiers in an all out war to eradicate all forms of evil from the megaverse?

These are the guys from Rifts China 2?

I've been looking for Mystic China's Enlightened Immortals in that book and haven't found'm yet

Nightmask wrote:I'm sure the (un)enlightened immortal dragon god

I'm not sure where people got the idea that a dragon can be an enlightened immortal. When EIs die, they reincarnate in human wombs. How does a dragon grow in a human womb? I thought they grew in eggs.

jaymz wrote:15th level Godling choosing Technowizard Conversely you could choose magic twice with TW and Temporal Magic

Neither Temporal or Techno Wizard is a viable 'magic powers' option for Godlings select. This is against the rules.

Akashic Soldier wrote:The ultimate evil in the megaverse is already statted out on page 15 of After the Bomb: Mutants of the Yucatan so I don't know why we're discussing it.

Do you refer to Kinkajous/Nightwalkers or Manatees?

Also why are all the female mutant animals in ATB always so sexy-looking? Feeling gradually corrupted reading these sourcebooks.

say652 wrote:a supernatural creature that can only be hurt by energy with a ring that makes them impervious to energy.

Wouldn't it be rather simple to immobilize/capture them, remove the ring, and THEN shoot them? Or heck: is the ring impervious to anything?

Tor wrote:Do you refer to Kinkajous/Nightwalkers or Manatees?

*sighs*

Its just tragic I would need to explain the mad vendetta and rightfully earned vengeance of the Manatee, but if I am going to do it than I guess I might as well do it in song...

*cracks out the guitar*

Gather yet round forumites and let me blow your freaking mind. . .

Tor - yes because we all know EVERY npc villain in Palladium is completely book legal.......also restricting godlings to what amounts to main book classes only (warlock being in cb1) is ridiculous and I am pretty sure I am far from the only one that allows other magic classes be chosen. I suppose every single thing you do is 100% book legal at all times? If so then you're better than even the people that have written all these books to begin with

Tor wrote:

Mercdog wrote:I have a demi-god Shifter I call Sethem, son of the Aztec Goddess of vice and sin, hunting for a young girl seven months pregnant with his child.

This makes me wonder, what would the spawn of a mortal and a demigod be called? Or a demigod and a god? 1/4 or 3/4 gods? This could get complicated. Anyway, there's always a witch pact bro.

Mercdog wrote:a Dakini demon woman (Dark Conversions) with a goth-lolita look.

Is she jealous of the Tolkeen girl?

As to the first, I'm not sure. I'd probably go with a normal human, but 'Special' somehow as the baby is possessed of divine lineage.

As to the second, No. She's not jealous. In fact she was involved in 'breaking' the girl. They are not nice people.

Tor wrote:

supreme-evil wrote:What if a Supreme Evil Villain is born with both the devils and demons as its servants

Ever taken a look at Alistair Dunscon? He's got both working for him. Though it's a bit unbalanced since it's 1 lesser Deevil and 2 greater Demons. PLUS an unnamed Succubus (lesser Demon, probably Alistair's bedmate). Something tells me some unfair shady things might've occurred once the Minion War started up.

MaxxSterling wrote:They already have those, they're called great old ones.

No silly GOOey sleepers plz.

Mercdog wrote:I have a demi-god Shifter I call Sethem, son of the Aztec Goddess of vice and sin, hunting for a young girl seven months pregnant with his child.

This makes me wonder, what would the spawn of a mortal and a demigod be called? Or a demigod and a god? 1/4 or 3/4 gods? This could get complicated. Anyway, there's always a witch pact bro.

Mercdog wrote:a Dakini demon woman (Dark Conversions) with a goth-lolita look.

Is she jealous of the Tolkeen girl?

supreme-evil wrote:What if the Celestial Heavens or something commission an extremely powerful being with the powers to capture and command both devils and demons and the chinese infernals from china book 1 yama kings/mystic china and use these "reformed enlightened" demons/devils/infernals as soldiers in an all out war to eradicate all forms of evil from the megaverse?

These are the guys from Rifts China 2?

I've been looking for Mystic China's Enlightened Immortals in that book and haven't found'm yet

Nightmask wrote:I'm sure the (un)enlightened immortal dragon god

I'm not sure where people got the idea that a dragon can be an enlightened immortal. When EIs die, they reincarnate in human wombs. How does a dragon grow in a human womb? I thought they grew in eggs.

jaymz wrote:15th level Godling choosing Technowizard Conversely you could choose magic twice with TW and Temporal Magic

Neither Temporal or Techno Wizard is a viable 'magic powers' option for Godlings select. This is against the rules.

Akashic Soldier wrote:The ultimate evil in the megaverse is already statted out on page 15 of After the Bomb: Mutants of the Yucatan so I don't know why we're discussing it.

Do you refer to Kinkajous/Nightwalkers or Manatees?

Also why are all the female mutant animals in ATB always so sexy-looking? Feeling gradually corrupted reading these sourcebooks.

say652 wrote:a supernatural creature that can only be hurt by energy with a ring that makes them impervious to energy.

Wouldn't it be rather simple to immobilize/capture them, remove the ring, and THEN shoot them? Or heck: is the ring impervious to anything?

r1e creature of magic:impervious energy, dimensional self,mystic portal,call lightning, fly as the eagle. weakness energy only and doesnt feed. a multiple impervious lightning blaster that flies and is real hard to trap. yea it only has ten skills but with that much ability does it matter.

Anyone who wants to know the true ultimate villain of Rifts, look only to the Usurper in Villains Unlimited.

Look at the things he invented. Shudder in terror. There is no way this Victor Von Destroyer died in the Cataclysm, IMO. I bet he figured out immortality and is raising a huge kingdom somewhere.

Ugh. He seriously invented EVERYTHING. He is the origin of the greatest beacons of good and evil tech in Rifts...

jaymz wrote:Tor - yes because we all know EVERY npc villain in Palladium is completely book legal.......

NPCs that deviate from written rules are going by unwritten rules which we might extrapolate from. Looking at Alistair Dunscon's stats, it's pretty simple to assess how much MDC someone who duplicated his rituals would have, for example.

Some NPCs following unwritten rules doesn't mean we should ignore the current ones. If we do, it's good to note "I'm going outside the rules and giving my Dwarf a magic tattoo" or somethin'.

jaymz wrote:also restricting godlings to what amounts to main book classes only (warlock being in cb1) is ridiculous and I am pretty sure I am far from the only one that allows other magic classes be chosen.

You mentioned a techno-wizard, which IS a main-book class, and TWs were certainly around far before Pantheons of the Megaverse was written (there are even Gods in the book who have studied Techno-Wizardry) yet it was not included as one of the available magic OCCs that you could choose to select.

That's because Godlings can't have inherent Techno-Wizard powers. Techno-wizardry is too much design to be inherent magic. It's too new.

As for temporal wizardry, while that isn't a main book class, it WAS around prior to CB2. This is obvious because it mentions godlings can choose necromancy as their magical area (published in World Book 4) but not that they can choose temporal (published in World Book 3). Temporal wizard is an OCC learned by some gods, but it is not available for godlings to choose as their power. That's because it isn't a raw natural area of magic, it's a comparatively secret less intuitive form of magic mostly monopolized by Raiders and their Wizard/Warrior pupils.

jaymz wrote:I suppose every single thing you do is 100% book legal at all times? If so then you're better than even the people that have written all these books to begin with

No, but when I go outside the described rules I make a note of it, I don't casually mention combinations that don't work by the rules as if they do

I don't recall saying TW wasn't a main book class nor did I say ONLY main book classes but most were.

Also you completely missed the point that restricting godlings, or lesser gods, to NOT being able to do other magic is ludicrous. Increasing the available classes they may choose is hardly a game breaker.

as for Alistair you are welcome to explain how he manages to get the PPE he has since I cannot find how beyond "handwavium supernatural magic stuff" not to mention I wasn't discussing NPCs in Rifts alone but across the megaverse.

Also I do not recall the OP asking for something that was book legal just something that would make a great super villain. As GM he (or any GM for that matter) can bend or outright break any rules they wish to get the villains they want. It's called GM's caveat.

i allow godlings but limit the magic selectionsto any warlock,shifter,mystic or leyline walker. you know like its writteninthe class description. now the demigod occ i would allow to pic one of the newer style magic classes such as technowizard,necromancer,temporal wizard or temporal warrior,and phase mystic(not a magic class persay but still deserves an honorable mention). now with one of these classes it could be combined with any of the magic classes available in the godling rcc description. so a ninth level phase mystic/ earth&fire warlock who transfers his intellect into a BattleRam. a spell casting psychic giant robot!!!!!! i shall call him Doug of Asgard lol

It's not unreasonable as a GM to allow the list of demigod/godling mage types to be extended, since that book came out before many of these other magic OCCs did. And I'm sure some npcs break that rule too. Ultimately veto power comes down to the individual GM and whether he suspects someone trying to min-max too much.

jaymz wrote:I don't recall saying TW wasn't a main book class

No, you said:

jaymz wrote:restricting godlings to what amounts to main book classes only (warlock being in cb1) is ridiculous

But that wasn't what I was talking about doing. I was talking about restricting it to the classes which were mentioned, and excluding classes not mentioned, particularly classes which had already been published by the time of CB2 which the author was aware of and chose to leave out. Such as the Techno-Wizard, the Temporal Wizard, not to mention the Stone Master, various England druids, african shamans, Diabolist and Summoner.

jaymz wrote:nor did I say ONLY main book classes but most were.

True, 3 out of 5.

jaymz wrote:restricting godlings, or lesser gods, to NOT being able to do other magic is ludicrous.

No, it isn't, because godling powers are about inherent abilities, and while some classes have more 'inherent' magical skills, others do not.

There is nothing restricting a Godling from choosing to halt advancing their natural RCC abilities and change the the OCC of Techno-Wizard, Temporal Wizard, or any of the others I mentioned which were left out, of course. But these are OCCs clearly omitted as options for Godlings or Demigods to select to represent intuitive magical abilities.

There is more of an argument to be made for making it optional for them toe select magical OCCS published AFTER pantheons of the megaverse, though, since they were not omitted and did not exist at the time. The Ocean Wizard from Rifts Underseas, for example (which I don't think had been published yet) would make a good option for a sibling of Triton's.

jaymz wrote:Increasing the available classes they may choose is hardly a game breaker.

The objection wasn't about game-breaking, but rather ignoring a clear non-inclusion of already-published OCCs (we know some OCCs were on CJ's mind, since he gave some of them to the gods, yet didn't include them as Godling power options). Simply including them as power options when they all have extensive cultures behind them cheapens the OCC and ignores what the OCC is.

Techno-wizardry is new, and it involves learning skills as well as magic, it's not something gods would be inherently born with because you need to actually understand machines to even do it. It was also invented very recently.

Temporal wizardry is (or was) supposed to be a very exclusive and secretive form of high-level magic hoarded away by raiders. About the only demigod I could see having this would be a son of Zurvan. Even then, how spell selection would work is very strange. Rather than the default spells of various levels OCCs usually get (and the ability to purchase spells) the Godling version just gives all of a given level. Meaning that even a level 6 godling or demigod who had selected 'Temporal Wizard' wouldn't even have any temporal spells, since as best I recall, the lowest level temporal spells is 7th (could be wrong bout that, but it's not low).

jaymz wrote:as for Alistair you are welcome to explain how he manages to get the PPE he has since I cannot find how beyond "handwavium supernatural magic stuff" not to mention I wasn't discussing NPCs in Rifts alone but across the megaverse.

I was confused about that for a long time as well (not to mention Inglix the Mad's PPE) but the rules for this were eventually clarified in the "Dimensional Outbreak" sourcebook, Dunscon clearly must know the 'Heart of Darkness' spell and have used it a lot to get that base. Considering that he sacrifices beings on a weekly basis to stay alive, it's not hard to imagine him throwing in some extra to get a permanent PPE boost.

jaymz wrote:I do not recall the OP asking for something that was book legal just something that would make a great super villain.

True but if you want to get overly technical:

supreme-evil wrote:What are your ideas for how the Supreme Evil Villain God would be like?

They asked for a god, and you gave them a godling

It's generally implied that when someone asks for characters they're expected to be book-legal unless otherwise indicated. Not that gods actually have any guideilnes on how to create them, of course... we have AI guidelines and they work close enough though.

jaymz wrote:As GM he (or any GM for that matter) can bend or outright break any rules they wish to get the villains they want. It's called GM's caveat.

Yup, we all know that. It's still worth mentioning when you're changing rules to prevent a false sense of them.

say652 wrote:i allow godlings but limit the magic selectionsto any warlock,shifter,mystic or leyline walker. you know like its writteninthe class description. now the demigod occ i would allow to pic one of the newer style magic classes such as technowizard,necromancer,temporal wizard or temporal warrior,and phase mystic(not a magic class persay but still deserves an honorable mention). now with one of these classes it could be combined with any of the magic classes available in the godling rcc description. so a ninth level phase mystic/ earth&fire warlock who transfers his intellect into a BattleRam. a spell casting psychic giant robot!!!!!! i shall call him Doug of Asgard lol

This works.

Eclipse wrote:It's not unreasonable as a GM to allow the list of demigod/godling mage types to be extended, since that book came out before many of these other magic OCCs did.

True, and I completely agree with this for things published AFTER pantheons, like ocean wizards or living fire wizards. I was objecting specifically to the Techno and Temporal wizards, which had been published prior to Pantheons and even included in Pantheons as OCCs held by several gods, yet excluded from the list of options.

Eclipse wrote:I'm sure some npcs break that rule too.

You're aware of a canonical godling or demigod who has, as a natural power (rather than OCC) a magical class besides the options listed? Where? There aren't really that many Demigods and Godlings in Rifts books outside of Pantheons. Off-hand I'm only recalling the Demigod in Splynn Dimensional Market...

Eclipse wrote:Ultimately veto power comes down to the individual GM and whether he suspects someone trying to min-max too much.

Everyone knows that, you don't need to reiterate, it doesn't matter when people bring up rules. This is how things generally occur, it gives a sense of order.

sooo as gm i could just say any npc has a deathlook that automatically kills pc's no save. lol. its like being back in six grade and chucking dice at people yelling "take one 1d20 damage!" sometimes. i create book legal villians as gm getting to assign what level they are is enough "power" for me thanks.

Dougs four powerarmor crew consists of an Anti-Monster, a six armed light japanese borg police officer,a Naruni Repobot and a White Tiger shock trooper. all level 3. the team calls itself the "Metal Heads" and have even met Thor on one occasion(He walked past them on the training grounds of Asgard!!!! Truly inspiring to the team.) Doug wields two giant size warhammers surrounded by an energy field. The Metal Heads are currently looking for a norse giant named Cutter any help in tracking down this man would be appreciated. He is not wanted for a crime but is still considered extremely dangerous.

Well Gods generally come from godlings, yes? Much like dragons come from hatchlings. At least that is how i've always seen them. As such then Gods would be essentially subject to the same rules. Apparently the gods in Pantheons break the rules as just in the first ten or so I see a couple of Stone Masters and Temporal Wizard. Considering neither of those is an option for Godling powers, beings who become gods, I guess the rules were broken in the same book they were written....it also says the powers of the character would reflect powers of their Pantheon so it stands to reason that if there are gods in the pantheon with powers that are not listed in the "rules" that one could argue they should be allowed.

With that my original idea can stand as is since there is a god in the first parts of the book that is a Techno Wizard. Considering there are no rules for multiclassing I find it interesting that a God would have multiple classes to begin with.

As for Alistair....using a spell published god knows how many years after the fact still makes it broken because there is no mention of Alistair even knowing demon magic so that can't be how he did it. Could that be an option? Yes. Is it? No not according to his write up. So makes him an illegal character by your standards.

i think they supreme ultimate villians were already made, they are called Mechanoids and it doesn't matter how badass your character or even if you let your players play five characters each they are gonna die if you cross paths with the Mechanoids.

say652 wrote:i think they supreme ultimate villians were already made, they are called Mechanoids and it doesn't matter how badass your character or even if you let your players play five characters each they are gonna die if you cross paths with the Mechanoids.

Yep have the group face a full operational and "manned" Spider Fortress and they will likely lose if they are not Gods.

i was allowed to create a greater norse giant reaver assassin with the gift of yggdrasil. Cutter, 80supernatural ps, autododge, all temporal magic(scrupolous alignment so wouldnt use necromancy),and all normal spells levels 1-5, bio-regenerate d4x100 mdc per melee, impervious fire&heat all types,change size 6-40 feet and 18000mdc. yea my offense consisted of timeslips and hiding alot. even totally immune to their weapons a wasp slamming you at mach2 does like 2d6x100md. he wound up luckily enough using a time space teleport escaping after the humans were able to board the mothership(we played the first book sdc=mdc for mechanoids) So basically a lesser god was pretty much curb stomped by the mechanoids, pretty easy since they just kept coming and coming thousands at a time.