JA-12, best rifle in Rifts game?

[FatherMorpheus]

So, if this was discussed before please point me to the thread. If not, here is my thoughts.

JA-12 has a single shot/3-rnd pulse burst which is better than just about every other WP Energy Rifle in the game. Then you add the grenades and a 4000 ft rng and *bang* it is better that just about all other energy rifles and most heavy energy weapons.

Sure it eats up E-Clips quickly, but it has an internal E-Canister which hold 30 shots as well as the 30 from a Long E-Clip. So that would be 60 shots or 20 qty 3-rnd pulses doing 1d6x10+10. In one shot.

Oh, and at 1000 to 2000 ft further range than just about all other Energy Rifles and even further than most Heavy Energy weapons.

So, is this over powered? Just a fluke weapon? Or is there an update/errata to Juicer Uprising somewhere that toned this down and I haven't seen it?

[Nekira Sudacne]

No, the most powerful rifle in the game is the ATL-7 laser rifle that deals 3d6*10+20 MD per shot, more than a boom gun, at a range of 3000 feet, but consumes an entire e-clip per shot.

granted, the JA-12 is certainly much more cost-effective.

[FatherMorpheus]

Most of the other stuff in this book isn't that out of scope. When you take this one though, it really seems to be the best WP Energy Rifle you can get. Based on the fact it is only 50K, why would anyone ever purchase anything else? It would end up driving everyone under and out of business. Or the very least, everyone would have copied it ie CS, Free Quebec and Triax/NGR.

Sure that 20% of the time you run into something that ignores it (Impervious to Energy, Reflective armor, etc) but then you carry a secondary weapon for those time.

It just seems a little broken.

I take it from the replies thus far, this has come up before? Or has everyone just accepted it and moved on?

[Giant2005]

It isn't the most powerful, it is just more powerful than the other widely distributed Rifles.
The thing is, it might not be so widely distributed, that is just an assumption we make.
We really know very little about it - we don't even know who makes it. All we know is it is based off a pre-rifts design, it could very well be an Archie product or a re-creation by someone else with superior technology.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Most of the other stuff in this book isn't that out of scope. When you take this one though, it really seems to be the best WP Energy Rifle you can get. Based on the fact it is only 50K, why would anyone ever purchase anything else? It would end up driving everyone under and out of business. Or the very least, everyone would have copied it ie CS, Free Quebec and Triax/NGR.

Sure that 20% of the time you run into something that ignores it (Impervious to Energy, Reflective armor, etc) but then you carry a secondary weapon for those time.

It just seems a little broken.

I take it from the replies thus far, this has come up before? Or has everyone just accepted it and moved on?

Juicer uprising was printed in 1996, Yea, most everyone just either accepts it and moves on or makes them rare/banned in their own games. of course, someone who's new to the game dosn't know that and is reading it for the first time, so we still have it come up once or twice a year on these forums

[FatherMorpheus]

Juicer uprising was printed in 1996, Yea, most everyone just either accepts it and moves on or makes them rare/banned in their own games. of course, someone who's new to the game dosn't know that and is reading it for the first time, so we still have it come up once or twice a year on these forums

I've never really considered this book one of the normal CJ type books. Just this one weapon is an outlying item. Seems most of you have the same mindset.

OK.

[Icefalcon]

I like the weapon myself. In the games I run, I make it a rare commodity distributed by ARCHIE. I also increase the price of the weapon to offset the great damage.

[flatline]

I like the weapon myself. In the games I run, I make it a rare commodity distributed by ARCHIE. I also increase the price of the weapon to offset the great damage.

Clearly, at $50k, it is priced too low for what it does, especially considering that it effectively has a long e-clip (valued at $9k-$12k) built in.

What price do you think is more reasonable?

--flatline

[flatline]

Here are the adjustments I made when I got the GMG. These adjustments have not been play tested.

JA-12 ala Flatline:
Weight: 13lbs without canister, 20lbs with canister. 1-handed use counts as shooting wild.
Damage: as listed
Range(laser): 2000' (1/2 canon)
Range(grenade): 900' (about 1/2 canon, roughly in line with modern grenade launchers according to wikipedia)
Payload(standard e-clip): 10 shots (as per canon)
Payload(long e-clip): 15 shots (as per house rules, long e-clips always have 150% capacity of standard e-clips)
Payload(e-canister): 30 shots (counts as 2 long e-clips for recharging purposes)
Black market cost: $120k without e-canister. e-canister costs $30k. Adding or removing the e-canister can be accomplished with common tools and requires about 10 minutes.

Also in my MD house rules, all laser weapons have an SDC practice mode that does the listed damage in SDC. 50 practice shots count as a single regular shot for e-clip purposes. Also makes these weapons suitable for hunting.

I purposefully priced it pretty high because money is usually pretty easy to come by in my campaigns. In more gritty campaigns, I see no problem with dropping the price (sans e-canister) down to maybe $70k-$80k. The damage plus capacity (even the reduced capacity I've assigned it) are sufficient to justify at least that much when compared to other available North American weapons.

--flatline

[Alrik Vas]

From an operational standpoint, the problem i have with the JA rifles is they're big. When i'm fighting a bunch of pukes armed with NG's in a building, door-to-door, the last thing i want is rifle barrel pointing three feet ahead, giving me away. If you switch to a sidearm, you still have it on your back, which becomes messy unless you took the initiative.

The juice boy guns are nice for what they do, and that's picking off deadheads from a thousand yards, then laying grenade fire down to cover your escape.

[ShadowLogan]

Don't have the JA-12 (don't have a copy of Juicer Uprising, am familiar with the book though), but the weapon isn't the most powerful as that depends on the criteria used to judge it.

While the longer range is nice, one also has to consider if the extra range is wasted on a man-portable weapon if circumstances (environment, ambush, etc) push engagements into a range that make the extra range a luxury feature that won't be a factor most of the time.

Payload. Sounds good, but there may be more efficient options to doing similar levels of damage. Also have to consider weight.

Damage. Again, while it can hit hard, it may not be the most efficient option (look at the ATL-7). It is a laser weapon, which means against a laser resistant foe it suffers (then there is magic).

[Alrik Vas]

Yeah, i prefer a good solid projectile weapon when I have the option. The JA-12 is nice, and it's top shelf for a laser weapon, but it doesn't shine in all situations. I think our comments point that out.

[Shark_Force]

it's still a very respectable choice for a primary weapon. yes, you should carry a secondary weapon (presumably something light, like a pistol or SMG in size), but while there are certainly times where you won't want to use it (enemies that are immune to energy, for example), there are also plenty of times where you will want to use it, and in fact i would say that you're more likely to want to use it than not (especially in a game that doesn't really ever deal with weapon sizes being an issue).

[Alrik Vas]

it's still a very respectable choice for a primary weapon. yes, you should carry a secondary weapon (presumably something light, like a pistol or SMG in size), but while there are certainly times where you won't want to use it (enemies that are immune to energy, for example), there are also plenty of times where you will want to use it, and in fact i would say that you're more likely to want to use it than not (especially in a game that doesn't really ever deal with weapon sizes being an issue).

Oh, certainly. However there are GM's who deal with those sorts of issues, and I am forever thankful for them.

[Icefalcon]

I like the weapon myself. In the games I run, I make it a rare commodity distributed by ARCHIE. I also increase the price of the weapon to offset the great damage.

Clearly, at $50k, it is priced too low for what it does, especially considering that it effectively has a long e-clip (valued at $9k-$12k) built in.

What price do you think is more reasonable?

--flatline

I price it between 150K to 180k depending on part of the country.

[Icefalcon]

Yeah, i prefer a good solid projectile weapon when I have the option. The JA-12 is nice, and it's top shelf for a laser weapon, but it doesn't shine in all situations. I think our comments point that out.

Keep in mind that the versatility of the JA-12 includes a grenade launcher. For those immune to energy, they are not immune to grenades.

[Alrik Vas]

I tend to price things by Prowl, Pick Pockets and the SPD attribute.

[SittingBull]

Ja-11 for life.

[Alrik Vas]

I admit, i like the 7.62 cartridge option on it...

[SittingBull]

Its an excellent weapon, especially for characters who like the wilderness. Hunting weapon and combat weapon rolled into one.

[Tor]

No, the most powerful rifle in the game is the ATL-7 laser rifle that deals 3d6*10+20 MD per shot, more than a boom gun, at a range of 3000 feet, but consumes an entire e-clip per shot. granted, the JA-12 is certainly much more cost-effective.

I imagine this ATL-7 would be rather cost-effective if a Gizmoteer got their hands on one. I'd think it necessary to instate some kind of 'takes an action to reload with ISP' policy to somewhat balance things out a bit...

Heck in this case a 'melee/minute per recharge' policy might even be useful.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Your not the first one to point out the Gizmoteer/ATL-7 combo on the forums

[SittingBull]

I always worried a player I used to have, and loved mystic knights (recharge e-clip ability) would want this gun.

[flatline]

I always worried a player I used to have, and loved mystic knights (recharge e-clip ability) would want this gun.

That might be an excellent hook to start a campaign that explores South America.

I don't have either of the SA books, so the only opinions I have of continent is based on what I've read here in the forums and from the material in the GMG.

If your player finally does get his uber-laser, I'm not sure what he'll do with it. The description of it on GMG p164 says it's so heavy it takes 2 normal humans to carry it. Would your mystic knight player even be able to use it effectively? From the description, it sounds like the kind of weapon you mount on something.

--flatline

[SittingBull]

Power armor would be my guess if he ever went down that road.

[flatline]

Power armor would be my guess if he ever went down that road.

Hmm...a mystic knight in power armor no longer benefits from being immune to energy (at least not until the power armor is destroyed) so I don't see that lasting very long. Once he fires his uber-laser, assuming the enemy didn't flee, he'd likely become the primary target. If he doesn't play smart, his uber-laser would quickly be destroyed or captured.

Personally, I see a weapon like that as more of a curse than a blessing, but perhaps I'm not properly appreciating the potential of the weapon (I don't usually get very excited about weapons).

--flatline

[eliakon]

Power armor would be my guess if he ever went down that road.

Hmm...a mystic knight in power armor no longer benefits from being immune to energy (at least not until the power armor is destroyed) so I don't see that lasting very long. Once he fires his uber-laser, assuming the enemy didn't flee, he'd likely become the primary target. If he doesn't play smart, his uber-laser would quickly be destroyed or captured.

Personally, I see a weapon like that as more of a curse than a blessing, but perhaps I'm not properly appreciating the potential of the weapon (I don't usually get very excited about weapons).

--flatline

If you want to twink out with it, it can be beastly powerful. The range is insane, and the damage impressive.

[Tor]

Your not the first one to point out the Gizmoteer/ATL-7 combo on the forums

I guess Machine People combo with it has also? Scary with the power leeches too...

[Giant2005]

In fact, looking at it in full, Juicer Uprisings has a handful of game breakers in it, and a few somewhat more capable weapons than reasonable. The JA-12 (Flaws?! Ha, such things are for mortal weapons fool!), the NG-45LP (Yes, my particle beam pistol does in fact need a hunting scope, why do you ask?), the Juicer Killer Power Armor (Auto-Dodge? I know not what you speak of mortal!), the Vibro Chainsaw with a built in laser (the chainsaw and the laser are mostly fine, save for a weapon not built ergonomically still having a range of 2,000'!), the Road Boss Chopper Bike (mostly, its that 90mm-ish cannon thing that sort of skews this one...its a light tank gun...on a motorcycle?!), and the Icarus Flight System (Again, for the most part, I don't have an issue with this one...but Mach 1?!)

You forgot the F.I.W.S Which is one of the more broken things in the book. It has a built in Vibro Claw that does more damage than any other Vibro Claw in the Megaverse and also has a built in particle Beam that does enough damage to put most Rifles to shame and comes in at only 24,000 credits.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

its supposed to be a remade version of a pre-cataclysm design.

The more likely answer is that writer cj carella was known for adding a little extra to his works (see sa2). some people tone it down a bit but the fact that it eats up eclips like a madman is not something to shy away from. there are only so many eclips one can cary and using up your ammo makes your rifle useless.

But yea, when your laser rifle does more damage than the multi dimensional arms dealers heavy weapons, it may be a bit op.

It doesn't even eat up e-clips that fast. Other pulse rifles (the L-20 being the sole exception, really) also have ~30 round clips and shoot 3-shot pulses, by and large. It eats them up slightly faster, but for the rathe rmassive damage and range boost... it isn't that bad.

[Shark_Force]

what confuses me for the ATL-7 is that apparently nobody in south america has had the thought "hey, i should mount this on something that has a nuclear power supply and sell that as a standard thing". i mean, the *only* drawback of particularly great significance is the payload, and being an energy weapon, you can fairly easily bypass it... and pretty much if you want to find a better weapon to mount on a power armour or robot, you almost have to look at a boomgun.

well... that, or go to robotech earth. over in robotech earth, they certainly don't pull any punches when it comes to making weapons that will smash just about anything. they may as well build their mecha out of tissue paper, popsicle sticks, and bailing twine, for all the good your MDC will do you against the weapons they have there..

[jaymz]

Power armor would be my guess if he ever went down that road.

Hmm...a mystic knight in power armor no longer benefits from being immune to energy (at least not until the power armor is destroyed) so I don't see that lasting very long. Once he fires his uber-laser, assuming the enemy didn't flee, he'd likely become the primary target. If he doesn't play smart, his uber-laser would quickly be destroyed or captured.

Personally, I see a weapon like that as more of a curse than a blessing, but perhaps I'm not properly appreciating the potential of the weapon (I don't usually get very excited about weapons).

--flatline

If you want to twink out with it, it can be beastly powerful. The range is insane, and the damage impressive.

I prefer the wilks pulse cannon out of Merc ops.....

[Killer Cyborg]

The Shemarrian Rail Gun is the best rifle in the game.
If you can carry and use the thing.

[jaymz]

The Shemarrian Rail Gun is the best rifle in the game.
If you can carry and use the thing.

Yeah but the ammo can be an issue.....damage wise the pulse cannon is about on par but only half the range iirc...

[kaid]

I am a big fan of the shemmarian rail gun. Great borg weapon if you can get your paws on one. Curious if you can use the titan robotics rounds that it makes for the titan robot armor in merc ops that is basically sporting a shemmarian gun as its main weapon.

Even if not rail gun rounds would in theory be pretty easy to mill yourself as long as you have access to a round to look at and MDC materials. Nice thing about rail guns is you don't need weird explosives to propel them just a metal slug of the right size/shape/toughness.

Really balancing out things like the JA -12 is pretty reasonable. One I would make them rare just due to being a pre rifts design and if people are sporting power house weapons like that play eclip recharging by the book. If they don't have an operator they need to go to town to charge up their toys. Even if you have a backpack full of clips at the rate that thing can eat them up you are not going to be firing bursts every round for long when you are out in the field or you are going to wind up with a very fancy club soon enough.

[kaid]

what confuses me for the ATL-7 is that apparently nobody in south america has had the thought "hey, i should mount this on something that has a nuclear power supply and sell that as a standard thing". i mean, the *only* drawback of particularly great significance is the payload, and being an energy weapon, you can fairly easily bypass it... and pretty much if you want to find a better weapon to mount on a power armour or robot, you almost have to look at a boomgun.

well... that, or go to robotech earth. over in robotech earth, they certainly don't pull any punches when it comes to making weapons that will smash just about anything. they may as well build their mecha out of tissue paper, popsicle sticks, and bailing twine, for all the good your MDC will do you against the weapons they have there..

Hehe this is sorta my reaction to boomguns too. If you have a weapon that hits so much harder than almost anything else why do more vehicles like giant robots and tanks sport it. In triax 2 you do start seeing some more sensible stuff about this where more things are mounting them. Rifts has always suffered from some damage oddities huge guns hitting like wet towels and small weapons hitting like giant vehicle mounted cannons.

[jaymz]

well... that, or go to robotech earth. over in robotech earth, they certainly don't pull any punches when it comes to making weapons that will smash just about anything. they may as well build their mecha out of tissue paper, popsicle sticks, and bailing twine, for all the good your MDC will do you against the weapons they have there..

Really? Robotech earth weapons aren't really any better than what is on Rifts earth with the rare notable exception both ways

[Shark_Force]

well... that, or go to robotech earth. over in robotech earth, they certainly don't pull any punches when it comes to making weapons that will smash just about anything. they may as well build their mecha out of tissue paper, popsicle sticks, and bailing twine, for all the good your MDC will do you against the weapons they have there..

Really? Robotech earth weapons aren't really any better than what is on Rifts earth with the rare notable exception both ways

the MAC II laughs at your puny devastator, and have you *looked* at the weapon options for the silverback? most things are practically *made* out of missiles, the weakest invid get 3d6 melee attacks, (and once you go up the ranks, so does the damage) with almost all of their ranged weapons reaching out to 4k feet (which most robots in rifts will struggle with), and once you get higher than scouts damage goes straight up to 1d6x10+6 on those ranged attacks. enforcers deal 2d6x10, almost everything has a +2 or better strike bonus (and you better hope you don't have protoculture, or it goes *really* big). heading over to the other side, bioroids have a 2d6x10 weapon with 6000 foot range as standard, the condor has a 2d4x10+8 weapon (and of course, a whole lot of missiles). the standard "sidearm" for an unarmed cyclone is a mini-missile launcher, and even their infantry weapons are at the very least superior in payload. they have entire *fleets* of ships with weapons that have a listed damage of "everything in the area is dead", and they've converted some of those ship weapons into a portable weapon for use on the ground.

now, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. that's what the setting basically calls for. but if you take an equal number of equivalent military forces from rifts earth and put them up against their robotech earth equivalents, more often than not the robotech side will crush the rifts earth side. it's just how the setting is. if you're not spitting out a veritable wall of missiles at anything that looks hostile, you've got to justify your existence somehow, and low amounts of damage at short range just isn't going to cut it. robotech got a huge boost in terms of having captured a super-advanced space fortress (and on other occasions, capturing other alien technologies) and setting up alliances with other races in some cases, to get access to exceptionally good technology, plus they have the advantage of protoculture. frankly, i think it wouldn't make sense for any outcome *other* than the robotech side facerolling the rifts earth side.

but that doesn't change the fact that that's exactly what would happen.

[Killer Cyborg]

what confuses me for the ATL-7 is that apparently nobody in south america has had the thought "hey, i should mount this on something that has a nuclear power supply and sell that as a standard thing". i mean, the *only* drawback of particularly great significance is the payload, and being an energy weapon, you can fairly easily bypass it... and pretty much if you want to find a better weapon to mount on a power armour or robot, you almost have to look at a boomgun.

Hehe this is sorta my reaction to boomguns too. If you have a weapon that hits so much harder than almost anything else why do more vehicles like giant robots and tanks sport it. In triax 2 you do start seeing some more sensible stuff about this where more things are mounting them. Rifts has always suffered from some damage oddities huge guns hitting like wet towels and small weapons hitting like giant vehicle mounted cannons.

Agreed.

[jaymz]

I DID say with rare exceptions like say 16inch cannons on the Monster and sorry the Monster is not the standard for mecha weapons it is a specialty unit that is meant to be mobile battleship turret not standard mecha weaponry. A proper comparison would be to compare it the rifts equivalent, the battleship turret on the Chitown carrier which actually does about double the damage than the Monsters guns......though the Monsters guns are longer ranged. Furthermore missiles are the same on both sides. I will say this, the destroid weapons will out range many rifts weapons. But when in the field like on Rifts earth you aren't likely to get more than a mile of open terrain depending on where you are.

Side note - Devastator Mk II equalo the Monster for Damage if not range.

3d6 melee attacks can be accomplished a variety of ways in Rifts by Robots, PA or Borgs....

4000ft is struggled with by main robot vehicles weapons in rifts? You may want to look at that again...most railguns are at least 4000ft and that is what is used by many robots to the point of being fairly commonplace.

Not sure what Bioroids you are looking at but the highest is 2d4x10 not 2d6x10. Not sure where you got he 6000ft either as it says 2000ft in my book and that's for the Bioroid blaster. The drum is even less damage and range. Edit - There are a number of robots that can do the same damage to much longer ranges (4-6000ft) so the Bioroid Blaster is fairly mundane really.

Invid Enforcer doing 2d6x10 is a dual blast (as in two weapons firing at once) that isn't THAT uncommon in rifts when robots have dual weapons to fire. In fact a few CS robots do that out to a longer range.

"Sirearms" for Cyclones are no more powerful than those of Rifts PA's. A minimissile sidearm is no more powerful than a rail gun and at very limited payload by comparison (and the CS Mini missile rifle has 4 times the payload actually) though they will have better range. EP-37 and -40 are no better than anything in Rifts in any way shape or form. Infantry weapons have an ammo advantage but that's bout it and that's for the Energy based ones.

MDC values on both sides are about the same as well. Main combat robots range from 300-500. Power Armours are 150-300

I won't bother addressing "fleets of ships that can vapourize their targets" and stick to comparing apples to apples as I did above.

Now unless your book is vastly different than mine the gap you seem to think is there really isn't other than range on some mecha weapons (definitely not all) and payloads of energy infantry weapons. Damages are all on par more or less as are MDC values.

EDIT - Aside from the Alpha and Beta just being missile platforms (because lord knows the Alphas gunpod in just pathetically anemic) Rifts Aircraft can hold their own to some degree against the VF's and easily go toe to toe with Robotech's conventional aircraft.

[kaid]

well... that, or go to robotech earth. over in robotech earth, they certainly don't pull any punches when it comes to making weapons that will smash just about anything. they may as well build their mecha out of tissue paper, popsicle sticks, and bailing twine, for all the good your MDC will do you against the weapons they have there..

Really? Robotech earth weapons aren't really any better than what is on Rifts earth with the rare notable exception both ways

the MAC II laughs at your puny devastator, and have you *looked* at the weapon options for the silverback? most things are practically *made* out of missiles, the weakest invid get 3d6 melee attacks, (and once you go up the ranks, so does the damage) with almost all of their ranged weapons reaching out to 4k feet (which most robots in rifts will struggle with), and once you get higher than scouts damage goes straight up to 1d6x10+6 on those ranged attacks. enforcers deal 2d6x10, almost everything has a +2 or better strike bonus (and you better hope you don't have protoculture, or it goes *really* big). heading over to the other side, bioroids have a 2d6x10 weapon with 6000 foot range as standard, the condor has a 2d4x10+8 weapon (and of course, a whole lot of missiles). the standard "sidearm" for an unarmed cyclone is a mini-missile launcher, and even their infantry weapons are at the very least superior in payload. they have entire *fleets* of ships with weapons that have a listed damage of "everything in the area is dead", and they've converted some of those ship weapons into a portable weapon for use on the ground.

now, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. that's what the setting basically calls for. but if you take an equal number of equivalent military forces from rifts earth and put them up against their robotech earth equivalents, more often than not the robotech side will crush the rifts earth side. it's just how the setting is. if you're not spitting out a veritable wall of missiles at anything that looks hostile, you've got to justify your existence somehow, and low amounts of damage at short range just isn't going to cut it. robotech got a huge boost in terms of having captured a super-advanced space fortress (and on other occasions, capturing other alien technologies) and setting up alliances with other races in some cases, to get access to exceptionally good technology, plus they have the advantage of protoculture. frankly, i think it wouldn't make sense for any outcome *other* than the robotech side facerolling the rifts earth side.

but that doesn't change the fact that that's exactly what would happen.

Robotech is all about the alpha strike. The weapons are way stronger than the armor is for most things so it looks a lot like the cartoons they can't take many hits before they go boom. Almost everything in robotech is insanely missile heavy. Those things have so many mini missiles it is crazy. If you have an alpha/beta fighter combo you are looking at 300ish or more mini missiles easily.

Then you get fun things like the reflex cannon pods from I think the shadow chronicle book. It is a mini version of the SDF main gun pretty much will punch through anything it hits. If it is in range it is going bye bye and they have much more accurate range than you see in rifts for space combats.

[Alrik Vas]

Destroids vs UAR-1's? Destroids.

Destroids vs Tolkeen era Armored Corps?

EEEEEhhhhh...i really don't know.

Anything tech in Rifts vs VF/VAF? GYAHAHAHA, Robotechnology sir.

Though maybe this is a discussion for another thread?



Back to the JA-12 thing, after thinking about it you'd have to pay me a lot to go against an infantry company that used it as their main battle rifle. A LOT.

[Subjugator]

No, the most powerful rifle in the game is the ATL-7 laser rifle that deals 3d6*10+20 MD per shot, more than a boom gun, at a range of 3000 feet, but consumes an entire e-clip per shot.

granted, the JA-12 is certainly much more cost-effective.

Put it in the hands of one of the living robot dudes from Phase World and it's an insanely powerful weapon. Unlimited shots. Hell, give it to a borg with one of those power ports.

/Sub

[Alrik Vas]

Sure, go ahead and do that. Just remember that under "normal" circumstances, if you were to run into a group of 10 standard Juicers, less then half of them will actually carry JA series weapons, and you aren't very likley to see more than one JA-12. They simply aren't that common as a group of weapons, and the newest one is actually the least common currently. Especially since the other two JA weapons are apparently being made in the modern PA 110 era somewhere. Black Market maybe.

They only get into the commonality of gear in very rare instances though. It more or less seems to be about money and preference.

Now...if someone made an overlay for the NA map that gave areas of distribution for different manufacturers (at least their idea of it), then we could have an idea of what would be rare by location at least. Some things are obvious, sure, but Wilks for instance seems wide spread, even though it's been said they're based in North Dakota, basically far from the action.

[Faceless Dude]

From an operational standpoint, the problem i have with the JA rifles is they're big. When i'm fighting a bunch of pukes armed with NG's in a building, door-to-door, the last thing i want is rifle barrel pointing three feet ahead, giving me away. If you switch to a sidearm, you still have it on your back, which becomes messy unless you took the initiative.

The juice boy guns are nice for what they do, and that's picking off deadheads from a thousand yards, then laying grenade fire down to cover your escape.

This.

The problem I have with the JA-12 isn't that the stats make it so uber-powerful. It's that the art done for it makes it look so gorky. A weapon designed like that would be over 5 feet long in total. Plus be barrel heavy due to the grenade launcher. For a Juicer, that's ok, they're quite literally larger than life and can do things most normal folk can't But in the hands of your everyday Merc or grunt? No way. Whenever someone shows me a non-juicer character that carries one I make them watch about 10 minutes of Starship Troopers to show people what they look like when trying to use a Rifle that's as almost as long as they are tall. In almost all instances they change it.

I have, however, been a fan of the JA-11 since it's inception. Not the most powerful, but the most versatile weapon in the game.

[SittingBull]

I would be an incredible article someone could write on who or what the "JA" was. I mean, in theory, if someone came up with this weapon (out of the blue epiphany invention) then he/they would very possibly made more items. More items with the versatility that the JA-11 has. THAT! Would be an awesome article for someone write up.

Lastly, I think of the JA-11 as a big gun. If you look at it and just picture a slightly larger version than you were thinking, its like wow. This gun is hefty.

[Alrik Vas]

From the most used drawing of a juicer with a JA-11 (the one for their OCC in the RUE), you can see the rifle is about the size of most these days, but it's full size. It has a long mag (e-clip), a strap, a full stock and a long barrel. It is not a small weapon.

The JA-12 is probably more so, but i don't have juicer uprising in front of me. The weight is only so much an issue in an RPG, and honestly neither is the size, but some people like the right tool for the job regardless of mechanics.

[Alrik Vas]

That's more or less what i was thinking.

Given that, what i said was likely accurate. It's not enormous, but it is a full rifle. If they had a carbine or a bullpup version, that would be cool.

[Seto Kaiba]

Almost everything in robotech is insanely missile heavy. Those things have so many mini missiles it is crazy. If you have an alpha/beta fighter combo you are looking at 300ish or more mini missiles easily.

Just popping by, since jaymz wanted my take on this thread... and while it's true that the VF-1 and the fighters from the New Generation and RTSC can get a little missile heavy, it isn't true for most. Even for those, you won't see any of 'em topping more than about 100 mini-missiles. The Alpha-Beta fighter combo only has about 80 accessible missiles in total, the other launchers being blocked off when the two are joined. About 120 total if you absolutely load both planes.

(It's nowhere near as abusive as some of the stuff in the original Japanese Macross franchise, where you really do get fighters that can carry 200+ short-range missiles on top of their other ordinance and push 300+ if you know what you're doing... it gets worse when you consider that those missiles can be .5kt ersatz-nuclear warheads. At last check, the top fighter for maximum Macross missile mayhem could take 274 missiles without using any hardpoints.)

[Shark_Force]

I would be an incredible article someone could write on who or what the "JA" was. I mean, in theory, if someone came up with this weapon (out of the blue epiphany invention) then he/they would very possibly made more items. More items with the versatility that the JA-11 has. THAT! Would be an awesome article for someone write up.

Lastly, I think of the JA-11 as a big gun. If you look at it and just picture a slightly larger version than you were thinking, its like wow. This gun is hefty.

fairly certain "JA" stands for "Juicer Assassin".

or, in other words, afaict the name won't really tell us squat about who makes it.