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Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:23 am
by Nekira Sudacne
The new level has to exceed the old level for skills to advance again. that goes for all skills they have in common not just hand to hand.
furthermore, if the first OCC has a skill, but the second OCC does not, then that skill is permanently frozen and will never advance.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:46 pm
by drewkitty ~..~
Nekira Sudacne wrote:The new level has to exceed the old level for skills to advance again. that goes for all skills they have in common not just hand to hand.
furthermore, if the first OCC has a skill, but the second OCC does not, then that skill is permanently frozen and will never advance.
I can't add anything of significance to this.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:34 pm
by Glistam
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:The new level has to exceed the old level for skills to advance again. that goes for all skills they have in common not just hand to hand.
furthermore, if the first OCC has a skill, but the second OCC does not, then that skill is permanently frozen and will never advance.
I can't add anything of significance to this.
Thanks for posting that.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:06 pm
by Captain Shiva
This is just my personal opinion,but I would just continue to let the HTH skill progress normally,just as if you had never changed classes.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:30 pm
by Alrik Vas
Captain Shiva wrote:This is just my personal opinion,but I would just continue to let the HTH skill progress normally,just as if you had never changed classes.
In that case, I would charge an OCC related skill. Just me though.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:45 pm
by say652
so a wise first level dual class character would spend as many skills possibly on the skills they wanted to stay sharp in.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:08 pm
by drewkitty ~..~
say652 wrote:so a wise first level dual class character would spend as many skills possibly on the skills they wanted to stay sharp in.
So a wise player changing the class of his char would pick duplicate skills of the ones that he would wanted his to progress in once the levels equalized.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:39 am
by Captain Shiva
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Captain Shiva wrote:This is just my personal opinion,but I would just continue to let the HTH skill progress normally,just as if you had never changed classes.
Don't you mean you personal house rule, cause what you said is contrary to what the canon rules say.
The canon rules for multiclassing,as written,are not well designed,in my opinion.I have never had this situation come up before in a game.
say652 wrote:so a wise first level dual class character would spend as many skills possibly on the skills they wanted to stay sharp in.
So a wise player changing the class of his char would pick duplicate skills of the ones that he would wanted his to progress in once the levels equalized.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:09 pm
by eliakon
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Captain Shiva wrote:This is just my personal opinion,but I would just continue to let the HTH skill progress normally,just as if you had never changed classes.
Don't you mean you personal house rule, cause what you said is contrary to what the canon rules say.
say652 wrote:so a wise first level dual class character would spend as many skills possibly on the skills they wanted to stay sharp in.
So a wise player changing the class of his char would pick duplicate skills of the ones that he would wanted his to progress in once the levels equalized.
So pretty much you just said what they said, but a bit more rudely? Was there any point to this post other than increasing postcounts and thread lenght? I mean its pretty OBVIOUS that a person saying 'my personal opinion....' means 'this is what I would do' and 'stay sharp in' sounds just like' what you said. you know...stay up on a skill, as opose to never increasing it again la la la?
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:38 pm
by say652
i believe may poor typing skills and improper grammar has insulted somebody(pssssst i think its !~@#!@#$$-.-)
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:28 am
by Tor
Captain Shiva wrote:This is just my personal opinion,but I would just continue to let the HTH skill progress normally,just as if you had never changed classes.
That is unbalanced, because it's a heck of a lot easier to get to level 2 in 15 OCCs than it is to reach level 15 in one of them.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:56 am
by Captain Shiva
Tor wrote:Captain Shiva wrote:This is just my personal opinion,but I would just continue to let the HTH skill progress normally,just as if you had never changed classes.
That is unbalanced, because it's a heck of a lot easier to get to level 2 in 15 OCCs than it is to reach level 15 in one of them.
Again,just my personal opinion, but other RPGs handle multiclassing better than the various Palladium games.There should be a better way than starting over from square one and having none of the previously accumulated knowledge be of any use.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:02 pm
by Brayon
Captain Shiva wrote:Tor wrote:Captain Shiva wrote:This is just my personal opinion,but I would just continue to let the HTH skill progress normally,just as if you had never changed classes.
That is unbalanced, because it's a heck of a lot easier to get to level 2 in 15 OCCs than it is to reach level 15 in one of them.
Again,just my personal opinion, but other RPGs handle multiclassing better than the various Palladium games.There should be a better way than starting over from square one and having none of the previously accumulated knowledge be of any use.
I'm in agreement with Captain Shiva on this. I would cap the overall Character Level at 15th, but allow certain shared skills to continue to progress. Unless someone is switching H2H styles, then, new style starts at the Overall Character Level. For instance, H2H Basic is frozen at 2nd, H2H Expert starts at 3rd (with no bonus from Expert levels 1 and 2.) So, a PC would have the bonus from Basic 1 and 2, and Expert 3 and onward.
Yes, this is a House Rules change, but one that doesn't penalize Players for switching archtypes, or make a player's hard work, time, and effort obsolete.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:36 am
by Glistam
Captain Shiva wrote:Tor wrote:Captain Shiva wrote:This is just my personal opinion,but I would just continue to let the HTH skill progress normally,just as if you had never changed classes.
That is unbalanced, because it's a heck of a lot easier to get to level 2 in 15 OCCs than it is to reach level 15 in one of them.
Again,just my personal opinion, but other RPGs handle multiclassing better than the various Palladium games.There should be a better way than starting over from square one and having none of the previously accumulated knowledge be of any use.
Why do you think the old knowledge is of no use? A 5th level character who becomes a new class has all the skills still of his old class at level 5 proficiency! For the first 5 levels of the new class, those skills are the character's "crutch." Once the new class reaches level six, only then will the skills the two classes had in common advance (finally) to level six. It's a much better system I think than 2nd Edition D&D, for example. And without the cap of a "character level" I think it's even better than the D&D 3rd Ed rules for multiclassing.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:30 am
by Captain Shiva
Glistam wrote:Captain Shiva wrote:Tor wrote:Captain Shiva wrote:This is just my personal opinion,but I would just continue to let the HTH skill progress normally,just as if you had never changed classes.
That is unbalanced, because it's a heck of a lot easier to get to level 2 in 15 OCCs than it is to reach level 15 in one of them.
Again,just my personal opinion, but other RPGs handle multiclassing better than the various Palladium games.There should be a better way than starting over from square one and having none of the previously accumulated knowledge be of any use.
Why do you think the old knowledge is of no use? A 5th level character who becomes a new class has all the skills still of his old class at level 5 proficiency! For the first 5 levels of the new class, those skills are the character's "crutch." Once the new class reaches level six, only then will the skills the two classes had in common advance (finally) to level six. It's a much better system I think than 2nd Edition D&D, for example. And without the cap of a "character level" I think it's even better than the D&D 3rd Ed rules for multiclassing.
I should have worded that better. Let me get back to you on that.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:43 pm
by Tor
Brayon wrote:I would cap the overall Character Level at 15th, but allow certain shared skills to continue to progress.
Capping the overall level (which is silly because there are NPCs higher than that) wouldn't solve the problem of there being lower experience level requirements, so someone who wanted to be level 15 in a HtH could just level up once in a bunch of OCCs instead of leveling up a bunch in one.
Palladium's multiple OCC program may not be perfect but we have to acknowledge that major XP difference here.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:39 pm
by Alrik Vas
I resolve the experience problem by making them advance in their new class as if they were already the equivalent level of their old one, then i let them advance skills/h2h they duplicted in their new class. When they exceed lvl 15 in a class, i just make an extended exp chart based on the increments they've had to achieve already.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:17 pm
by Tor
Alrik can you give an example of how this works? Not clear on what you're suggesting. You mean if you're a level 3 mystic and become a level 1 city rat, to get to level 2 city rat you need to get the xp required to be a level 4 mystic?
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:55 pm
by Alrik Vas
Yes, that is what I am saying. Wait, actually you'd need to get enough to be a lvl 5 City Rat.
Mystic 3/City Rat 2
5 levels total
Your 2nd City Rat level would actually be attained when you have enough exp to be a 5th lvl City Rat. Mind you, that's total exp. So your previously earned Exp as a Mystic counts toward it.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:36 am
by drewkitty ~..~
The example Tor put forth is broken because Mystic is a PCC, when looked at objectively. And PCC's can't change class unless they somehow loose all their psi powers.
But it was only an example.
So AV if I was The Class with the easiest exp. table for advancement then changed to a Demigod or to the Immortal power cat. (Would of picked Dragon for the higher exp. table but that would be changing races.) Would the char still follow their 1st exp. table progression.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:18 am
by Tor
Looking at it objectively, Mystics have been OCCs since RMB and remain so in RUE. They were OCCs in Nightbane and the closest I've seen to a Mystic being a PCC is the "Psi-Mystic" in PF2nd which due to its different name, does not lead me to make that conclusion about the other classes.
I mean heck, a lot of non-psionic races are not restricted from becoming mystics. Presumably if you select a magic OCC with psionics, you either learn them (even if your race doesn't get any) or you get the magic without the psionics (as indicated by some gods who're TWs but lack TW psionics)
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:01 am
by Alrik Vas
3rd level Merc Soldier. You decide you want to join the special forces. You tell your GM since it's close to time for you to level. However, your GM (me) tells you, that if you want to continue your Hand to Hand: Expert training , you'll need to earn enough exp to be a 4th level Special Forces OCC to level into Spec Ops lvl 1, and in order to continue leveling, you'll need to continue on the table from lvl 4. (when you level, you'll be 4th lvl H2H Expert instead of it freezing until you surpass your old level)
If you go with weaker class, then you get an easier exp table. You'll be missing out on whatever a better OCC would offer, so i don't see anything wrong with it.
I just base everything off of character level rather than starting over. That way they get to continue to raise skills and hand to hand.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:45 pm
by drewkitty ~..~
Looking objectively at a class means "Looking at the aspects of the class and considering what it is by the text describing what it is only." Looking at it objectively automatically means you throwing out of the consideration the labels they already have, in the determining of what they really are.
As to when the Mystic was 1st labeled as an OCC you need to go back to the PFRPG 1st ed. However, everything in PFRPG 1st ed all the classes are labeled as OCC's. Which at the time was okay because they were just getting started.
Yes, the Mystic class is correctly Named and Labeled in the PFRPG 2nd ed Main Book.
However, this is only a side issue to the topic/discussion at hand.
----------------
AV would it not be better just to add a MOS to the char if they are just going from a generalized class to a specialty class in the same type of class classification, such as going from Grunt to SEAL.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:48 am
by Akashic Soldier
The Mystic is an O.C.C.
P.C.C.s have been removed from the Megaversal System.
The reasoning for this is explained in the R:UE along with why many psychic R.C.C.s are also O.C.C.s (Zapper, Burster, etc.).
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:55 pm
by drewkitty ~..~
Akashic Soldier wrote:The Mystic is an O.C.C.
P.C.C.s have been removed from the Megaversal System.
The reasoning for this is explained in the R:UE along with why many psychic R.C.C.s are also O.C.C.s (Zapper, Burster, etc.).
You are mistaken AS, the label PCC was only removed from only
The Rifts Setting for stylistic reason.
As per K.S.'s comments in RUE.Note: I was said "looking at it
Objectively", meaning looking past any STUPID! IDIODIC! WORNG! style formats applied to the labeling. Why do I say they are "STUPID! IDIODIC! WORNG!", it is because the way you frame the words need to be correct otherwise the concepts transmitted by the words will be incorrect/wrong. This is why I find the style filters on the Rifts classes Stupid. Because they do not say what the classes are when the class is a psychic class and
Not a Job nor a Racial class and when it is a Race with an RCC, and Not the whole being an Racial char class.
So These are the reasons that I object to the
lies in the concept the Style Filter impose in the classes and races.
If KS wanted the classes to be "More Accessible" then he should of removed all the Style filters on the class labels so everyone would get the correct concepts from first glance. Not needing be look past the wrong concepts presented to see what things really are.
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:45 pm
by Alrik Vas
Re: Hand to Hand skills and multiclassing
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:16 pm
by Tor
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:As to when the Mystic was 1st labeled as an OCC you need to go back to the PFRPG 1st ed
I don't think it WAS in the first ed of PRPG. Was it in one of the world books?
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:the Mystic class is correctly Named and Labeled in the PFRPG 2nd ed Main Book.
There is no Mystic class in PFRPG 2nd. You must be referring to the PSI-Mystic, which happens to be a MASTER Psionic class.
We're talking about the Mystic OCC in Rifts, which is a MAJOR psionic class. You'll note by comparing the Psi-Mystic to either RMB or RUE's stats for the (Rifts) Mystic that they are subtly different classes.