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So, remember the Triax X-1000 Ulti-Max Power Armour? It first appeared in the first Sourcebook, along with a variety of other new power armours, robots, ect. I love the first sourcebook, but I've never really included the Ulti-Max in any of my games, or seen it included in many others, and that's probably because I have trouble making sense of it.

First of all, it's hammered into the reader right from the description that this is 'the most powerful form of power armour ever developed by post-rifts technology', and within two paragraphs we learn that it just might rival the Glitterboy, is a fabulous war machine with 'vast firepower', so devastating that Chi-Town is going to outlaw them, ect ect ect. I mean, for something that can't even jump, it sounds like the best thing ever made. Heck, even the CS thinks so! 'Chi Town has purchased 24 to add to its own mechanized forces' and the Emperor has even considered buying a whole division of them!

So, why is it held up SO high? I've always thought that it was talked up in an attempt to get players to try them out instead of Glitterboys?

Also, does it really fit? I understand that the idea that the folks at Palladium had for Triax and the NGR circa the sourcebook are probably different than the end product of that book, but the Ulti-Max seems so different than the rest of the NGR gear, in concept and in art, that it hardly seems to fit in at all. Add that to the fact that I have very rarely ever seen it referred to or mentioned again. For the greatest thing made since the coming of the Rifts, you would think it would be commonly seen in art, character descriptions, ect, but it seems to just about disappear. The CS bought a bunch of them, but they just go away?

Anyways, kind of all over the place here, but what is everyone's opinion of the Ulti-Max, and it's place in Rifts?

I like it.
The force field adds a LOT to the effectiveness of the armor, simply by saving on combat damage and consequent repairs.

I find the unit underpowered and imo underserving of it's reputation. Beyond the mini-missiles I find the main gun underpowered. It has decent MDC and a forcefiled yet the weapon that is supposed to "rival the Glitterboy" gun in damage does about as much damage as a regular railgun. It has decent range yet 1D6x10 vs 3D6x10 of the Glitterboy. Hardly rivaling anything imo. The poor damage value of the gun is at least offset by having a decent compliment of mini-missles that it can launch. It's not at all a bad power armor yet the Glitterboy supremacy is still assured.

It is a pretty solid mech. Bit less of a one trick pony than a glitter boy and the force field gives it a good way to blunt initial missile attacks as it gets into range itself. Pretty heavily armored although still not in the glitterboys class.

For its time period when you are looking at things like the URA-1 being one of the prime robots in north america and most of the other power armor in the 250 mdc range it really was pretty much the top of the heap if you take the gliterboy out of the equation for that time period.

My first thought looking at it was 'this thing is supposed to rival a Glitterboy in power?' and that thought hasn't changed with subsequent readings of it. While there may be Earth-produced power armors that are more competitive with the Glitterboy the Ulti-Max definitely isn't.

Yes the first ulti max is not really very competitive vs the gliterboy but for its time it probably was the second best armor available in north america. It has a good amount of mini missiles for an impressive alpha strike it has more armor not even including the force field than pretty much anything of the time period in north america other than a glitter boy and the force field is a hell of an advantage repair cost wise for any merc unit.

And while it was not a great one v one match vs the glitterboy it pretty much IS one v one better than anything the CS had at that time before the CS war new varients came out which is more than enough reason to ban it.

I love the look of it. The force field is awesome if you don't have any Naruni systems available. Otherwise, its stats are underwhelming.

kaid wrote:It is a pretty solid mech. Bit less of a one trick pony than a glitter boy and the force field gives it a good way to blunt initial missile attacks as it gets into range itself. Pretty heavily armored although still not in the glitterboys class.

Yeah, the forcefield is very unique, like, incredibly so, and I think only some of the non-robot hover vehichles in Triax also have such a forcefield. Having the mini-missiles, and more than a couple at that, is also a great way for it to protect itself against misssiles, as the best thing to shoot down missiles with is other missiles.

kaid wrote:For its time period when you are looking at things like the URA-1 being one of the prime robots in north america and most of the other power armor in the 250 mdc range it really was pretty much the top of the heap if you take the gliterboy out of the equation for that time period.

Oh yeah, I am not arguing that it's not really good. It's actually extremely comparable to the NG-V7 Hunter Mobile Gun, also in the first sourcebook, with nearly identical MDC, the same strength and other stats, and very comparable guns, both with a 6000ft main railgun (NG can do a double burst for 2x damage) and mini-missiles (Ulti-Max with nearly 2x as many), the Mobile Gun has a secondary heavy gun, the Ulti-Max has better bonuses and a forcefield. The Mobile Gun is a 32ft Robot Vehichle, and the Ulti-Max is a 16ft Power Armour (half the size, 1/7th the weight), the fact that the Ulti-Max is directly comparable shows just how good it is.

Infact, using it's missiles to defend against other missile attacks, and it's long range railgun outranging many other railguns and energy weapons, combined with it's high MDC it has a real chance against things like the UAR-1.

I'm not saying it's not really good, and I do like it, ever since first reading it way back when I got it ('98), but it just never really seemed to 'fit' in with the things that came afterwards, and for something that should have been huge in later books, it seems to more or less have been dropped.

One idea that was suggested to me is that the art for the Ulti-Max makes it less likely to be included in drawings later, because it is a fairly unique and intricate piece. The Mobile Gun I mentioned earlier appears in several art pieces in Vampire Kingdoms which came out very closely to the Sourcebook, for instance, and many robot vehichles appear drawn by different artists in a variety of books, but I can't think of any other appearance of the Ulti-Max, which is a shame.

Yup the ultimax always was a bit of an odd ball compared to the other triax designs look wise. I took it to be a prototype unit where their design geeks through all their tricks together to see what they could do. The funny thing is looking at the other triax bots the ulti max never really fit the needs of triax. It is to slow to really avoid being swarmed by gargoyles.

It is however especially for its time almost an Ideal merc unit. Large mini missile payload good main gun comprable to most of the robot vehicles of the time at a fraction of the size/price and the force field gives it really good legs for a merc company who may not have direct access to a repair base like armies would.

I think in this is where the comparison to a glitterboy comes in. It is not so much that it is as powerful as a glitterboy but both are powerful units that are most often seen in the hands of merc units which turn a merc unit which would not be a threat to a CS force into one that is a serious danger to a CS squad that ran into them. At the time the CS suspected but did not know for sure that FQ could make new glitter boy units so all the ones running around were thought to be relics. Now you have the ulti max not the same power level as a glitterboy but a good run against everything else out there made by a modern company that can make more at will. Had the CS not banned them they risked the north american market being flooded with power armor units that were equals of all the power armor and most of the robot vehicles the CS had at that time. The CS rightfully did not want to run into opponents fielding battalions of these things.

I've always liked the look of the Ulti-Max, first and foremost. The stats don't necessarily match the fluff but that's nothing new for Palladium. And even so, while not as powerful as the Glitterboy, it can compare especially over the long term. I've found it requires less repairs and is much less costly to maintain than the Glitterboy, largely thanks to the force field.

Speaking of the force field, one thing I've always liked to do is swap it out for a super heavy Naruni one, whenever possible. More protection and a quicker recharge rate. Even better, unless someone examines the internals, having a force field is not suspicious for an Ulti-Max.

The unit has other shortcomings and I usually like to play tech characters who redesign systems to improve on them. First thing that has to go are those exhaust ports. They're ugly, add height and I've always wondered, what exactly are they exhausting from a nuclear power plant? Still, that's mostly an aesthetic choice for me.

The stabilizing thruster on the back goes next, to be replaced by a flight pack, designed from the ground up if necessary. Without an anti-grav decide the unit is still going to be slow compared to other fliers but it gives the unit options it didn't have before. For visuals, I like an upscaled version of the original SAMAS pack.

Along with the flight pack, I like to replace the lower legs with ones that include built in thrusters. The leg thrusters are part to aid the flight pack and partly for aesthetic reasons. While I'm on the legs I like to see if I can't add leaping ability and a faster running speed. Depends on the money and resources available.

As far as I'm concerned, the arms are just begging for weapons. I like to work with a vibro-blade and a couple of mini-missiles. One blade might also be silver, which usually sees more use than vibro-weapons anyway.

I leave the rail gun alone. It has some nice bonuses and having two ammo drums and the ability to switch back and forth is some nice versatility. U or DU rounds in one for armor and silver in the other for a variety of supernatural nasties.

Lately I've been playing with the idea of adding an over the shoulder energy cannon as well as swapping out one or both arm weapon systems (as described above) with gatling gun style weapons.

So in essence I like the Ulti-Max for the look and DIY projects my characters can do to it. The Shadow Glitterboy looks like it will be my next DIY project armor.

In my opinion:

It's badass

I always loved the ultimax because it looks so fearsome and intimidating

It could decimate anything sent in its way

my brother and his friend actually used it a lot, however they played at the beginning of Rifts
And it hadn't been overshadowed or buried into the history of rifts

A cool mech that adds a ton to any adventure

Okay... now that I'm back near my books and computer, I'll give a more in-depth analysis.

A lot of the big deal about the Ultimax isn't just it's power, but it's power by size.
It's generally considered to be power armor, but it can hold its own pretty well against Robot Vehicles, which is something of a feat.
The fact that the standard that it's even trying to compete with is Glitter Boys instead of SAMAS is what's impressive, power-level-wise.

Its next advantage is range. The rail gun isn't going to match the Boom Gun's 2.08 mile range, but it at least comes close at 1.13 miles.
The average for a GOOD railgun is 4,000', less than 4/5 of a mile. What's more, the targeting system works to the full range, which is unusual.
Likewise, the damage is good for a railgun, 1d6x10 MD. That's 50% more than the standard (1d4x10). It's only 1/3 of a Boom Gun's damage, but it's definitely better than average.
The laser's damage is poor (2d6 MD) for such a large weapon, and the fact that it's variable-frequency is meaningless in that context. The laser's range, though, is 4,000', which puts it at about 2x the average for a laser rifle. And the added layer of versatility is nice.

The mini-missiles are it's main ability to dish out high damage, and they're something that the Glitterboy lacks. They add yet another layer of versatility, and in the short run they even boost the firepower past the GB's Boom Gun, because for the first 5 attacks, the Ulti-Max can launch volleys of 6 mini-missiles per attack, for up to 6d6x10 MD per attack, TWICE the damage of the Glitter Boy.
(Although, after those early attacks, the GB will swiftly start catching up.)

Also, the sensors are pretty solid. The armor has a +2 to strike with its ranged weapons across the board, NOT just with Aimed shots. That bumps the strike bonus of the rail gun up to +4 to strike as a base. Since the railgun fires bursts only, that strike isn't going to increase until 4th level, but +4 isn't a bad bonus by any means.
With the laser, more bonuses come into play. +2 for an Aimed Shot. +2 for Sniper. That adds up to +8 to strike at first level, without getting too fancy looking for bonuses. So while the laser gun doesn't have a lot of firepower, it certainly can make for a good sniping weapon against soft targets, and unlike the Boom Gun, it's not going to let everybody within miles know where you are, and it's not going to use up any ammunition from your supply.

It's combat bonuses, +1 to Parry and +2 to Dodge, add a minor but possibly significant benefit.

On the down side, the thing only runs at 44 mph, and doesn't have any special jumping or flying options. That's pretty limited, and pretty slow by power armor/robot standards.
What this means in a "vs. Glitter Boy" scenario is that the Ulti-Max can't use hit-and-run tactics over the long term, taking its time to back off when it's force field is down, and strike again when it's regenerated. At least, not easily, because the Glitter Boy (and anything faster than a GB, which is a LOT of stuff) can outrun the Ulti-Max without too much trouble.

In a straight-out firefight with a GB, the it's a surprisingly even match.
The GB is going to dish out an average of 105 MD to hit, needing only 5 hits to the main body to incapacitate the Ulti-Max.
The Ulti-Max can dish out an average of 210 MD per hit with volleys of plasma missiles, needing only 4 hits to the main body to incapacitate the Glitter Boy.

A capable and knowledgeable GB pilot could bide his time, playing defensively until the mini-missiles run out, but a capable Ulti-Max pilot could save his mini-missiles for simo-attacks, forcing the GB to a draw or a loss.
Who ultimately would win a fight would depend on the pilots, the terrain, and other factors.

Killer Cyborg wrote:Who ultimately would win a fight would depend on the pilots, the terrain, and other factors.

True in most cases.

Killer Cyborg wrote:A lot of the big deal about the Ultimax isn't just it's power, but it's power by size.
It's generally considered to be power armor, but it can hold its own pretty well against Robot Vehicles, which is something of a feat.

Indeed, I think above I wrote a very minor comparison to the Mobile Gun, but it is crazy how close it comes in against many Robot Vehichles. Especially if said Robot doesn't have a main weapon past 4000ft (not counting missiles) then the Ulti-Max really starts to shine, outranging with a solid damage/attack, and using it's missiles to counter enemy missiles, since many true robots carry short or medium range missiles and mini-missiles are a great way to close through that distance and counter fire

But really, if it seems to be generally agreed that it is a good or even great power armour, why do we basically never see it again? Any theories? I realize it gets buried under a huge stream of new power armour/robot vehichles as the world books come out, but besides being re-printed in Triax, does it ever get seen again?

The original text of the Ulti-Max is a whole lot of hype now. However, when it first came out, it was really kick-ass. My first PC in Rifts ever was a Special Forces OCC who had an Ulti-Max. He kicked butt from Chi-Town to Lone Star. Now its so much fodder for all the new stuff out there, but its still a very good peace of gear.

Triax 2 has an upgraded ultimax that looks a lot more like the rest of their power armors like an amped up terror trooper. Still kinda slow but it is a beast and would be an even closer match to an original model Glitterboy.

Eashamahel wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:A lot of the big deal about the Ultimax isn't just it's power, but it's power by size.
It's generally considered to be power armor, but it can hold its own pretty well against Robot Vehicles, which is something of a feat.

Indeed, I think above I wrote a very minor comparison to the Mobile Gun, but it is crazy how close it comes in against many Robot Vehichles. Especially if said Robot doesn't have a main weapon past 4000ft (not counting missiles) then the Ulti-Max really starts to shine, outranging with a solid damage/attack, and using it's missiles to counter enemy missiles, since many true robots carry short or medium range missiles and mini-missiles are a great way to close through that distance and counter fire

But really, if it seems to be generally agreed that it is a good or even great power armour, why do we basically never see it again? Any theories? I realize it gets buried under a huge stream of new power armour/robot vehichles as the world books come out, but besides being re-printed in Triax, does it ever get seen again?

I would not say it is fodder but most of the other power armors have gotten more mdc and more or stronger weapons which brings them closer to parity with it. Given the Ultimax 2 is out now the price for the original varient is likely lower now than it once was for still what is one of the best (at least until ng1 or ng2 comes out) reasonably accessible merc power armor.

Ya that is the downside for mercs on a shoestring. Although it is better to have the capability to salvo mini missiles and not need them than to need them and not have them. It takes out the single point of failure like the GB has of lose the main gun then what.

Most campaings I have seen them used the missiles were rarely used on anything other than the "epic" conclusion of whatever we were doing. Most of the work was done with the main rail gun and the missiles were mostly there as the OH SH*T button. 100 MDC of armor every day of armor you don't need to repair adds up to a lot of mini missiles.

Eashamahel wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:A lot of the big deal about the Ultimax isn't just it's power, but it's power by size.
It's generally considered to be power armor, but it can hold its own pretty well against Robot Vehicles, which is something of a feat.

Indeed, I think above I wrote a very minor comparison to the Mobile Gun, but it is crazy how close it comes in against many Robot Vehichles. Especially if said Robot doesn't have a main weapon past 4000ft (not counting missiles) then the Ulti-Max really starts to shine, outranging with a solid damage/attack, and using it's missiles to counter enemy missiles, since many true robots carry short or medium range missiles and mini-missiles are a great way to close through that distance and counter fire

But really, if it seems to be generally agreed that it is a good or even great power armour, why do we basically never see it again? Any theories? I realize it gets buried under a huge stream of new power armour/robot vehichles as the world books come out, but besides being re-printed in Triax, does it ever get seen again?

It might have been created by somebody who wasn't with the company by the time that the Triax book came out, or by somebody who didn't have input on that book.
Other than that, I don't know. I certainly would have expanded on it, if I were writing things.

Rathask wrote:The main thing that makes the Ultimax useful is the mini-missiles. However, they are also its drawback. Simply, mercenaries and adventurers are often short on cash, and mini-missiles cost a lot. Rail gun rounds, on the other hand, are cheap, especially for the Glitter Boy (which only fires single shots). This ultimately cancels out the benefit gained by the Ultimax' use of a force field cutting down on the cost of repairs.

That would depend on what you're up against, and how often.
I tend to think that if you're using missiles regularly, and you're not in a war or something, then you're in over your head.

For lighter combats, the railgun would serve just fine, or even the laser.
If you get into HEAVY combat regularly, though, yeah... go with a GB or something with a better damage-to-cost ratio.

Yup missiles are for when stuff gets real. Heavy mechs/heavy power armor/dragons/demons. For most day to day stuff rail gun is all you need.

And it does certainly have a real quantity of mini-missiles! 30 is more than the Striker Samas carries (althought I realize the Striker is much smaller, but it is a great missile carrier), and more than the Terror Trooper, to which it is a solid match against.

The force field WAS ok but replace with NE The force field(240 MD ) make it bad ,replace the 1d6x10 to at least a better damage 2d4x10 or dare i say 3D4x10 , hell with it add a GD Boom gun ploys 3d6x10 add modifications
well now we got a modded beast
well that me IMHO
still it was just the second best robot vehicle IMHO

ZINO wrote:The force field WAS ok but replace with NE The force field(240 MD ) make it bad ,replace the 1d6x10 to at least a better damage 2d4x10 or dare i say 3D4x10 , hell with it add a GD Boom gun ploys 3d6x10 add modifications
well now we got a modded beast
well that me IMHO
still it was just the second best robot vehicle IMHO

If we are modding the Ulti-Max, why not leave the original Force Field installed, ADD a robot version of the Naruni N-F40A Heavy Force Field (it has 320 MDC). That ups the total protection by force fields to 420 MDC, which is as good of protection for some robot vehicles. And while we are at it, why not add some SRM launchers? And I would add a plasma cannon under the main gun that is tied to the main power so in the event that you run out of ammo for the mini-missiles (and SRM's if they were added) AND the rail gun, then you still have a decent fall back weapon.

Just a pulse feature for the laser would be pretty nice.

Killer Cyborg wrote:Just a pulse feature for the laser would be pretty nice.

a pulse feature on the laser, and maybe an increased critical chance on the railgun. that would go a long way to making it live up to its reputation.

I'd much prefer to adventure in an ulti max. Just far more robust because forcefields regenerate.

Shadow Wyrm nailed it. When the Ulti Max was introduced, the only thing to compare it to was the equipment in RMB (we are talking about Sourcebook 1). Hence the flavor text made perfect sense.

As for revising it, I'd just up the laser to a pulse weapon, and lower the cost. It makes sense that with all the new PAs/Robots that the price would substantially come down.

It just LOOKS badass.

That being said the gun should probably have been upped to be on par with the Shemarrian Railgun damage wise in my opnion.

The Ulti-Max is a fine PA. It's best role is in support because of it's missiles and the range of it's main weapon. The force field keeps it from having to dodge as often so it can continue to lay down fire and keep forward units moving.

Pimp my Ulti-Max!

jaymz wrote:It just LOOKS badass.

Haha! This was more of my original point. I wasn't arguing it wasn't, and isn't still a great Power Armour, as demonstrated here it certainly is. When it comes out, it gets a HUGE picture, 2x the size of every other Robot or Power Armour in the book, is lauded to the high heavens in the flavour text, and (to me at least) looks amazing, hence the wondering why it never appears in future art. With all of that included, I would have thought it was going to be one of the new icons of the game, similiar to the Samas.

glitterboy2098 wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Just a pulse feature for the laser would be pretty nice.

a pulse feature on the laser, and maybe an increased critical chance on the railgun. that would go a long way to making it live up to its reputation.

In my next campaign I'm thinking of ruling rail guns as Armor-Piercing. That would be your increased critical chance and ill see if anyone wants to carry them over pulse lasers

Faceless Dude wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Just a pulse feature for the laser would be pretty nice.

a pulse feature on the laser, and maybe an increased critical chance on the railgun. that would go a long way to making it live up to its reputation.

In my next campaign I'm thinking of ruling rail guns as Armor-Piercing. That would be your increased critical chance and ill see if anyone wants to carry them over pulse lasers

I've thought about doing that as well. I think that rail guns could use the boost.
Let me know how it turns out.

I've done it. In playtests I've run it works out pretty good and actually made the 2 on 1, Samas vs GB scenario make more sense. With bonuses it gave the 1st level Samas a 30% chance of doing 2d4x10 on every burst though the GB had a slightly better chance at 35%. Now the edge was still with the GB obviously but it certainly evened the playing a field a bit for the Sams.

Rathask wrote:The main thing that makes the Ultimax useful is the mini-missiles. However, they are also its drawback. Simply, mercenaries and adventurers are often short on cash, and mini-missiles cost a lot. Rail gun rounds, on the other hand, are cheap, especially for the Glitter Boy (which only fires single shots). This ultimately cancels out the benefit gained by the Ultimax' use of a force field cutting down on the cost of repairs.

I actually looked through the mercenaries book and fount it was statistically impossible for a mercenary company to ever be low on ammo or missiles, sinse the way the points distribution are arranged, the smallest company types get 10 points in weapons for free which automatically provide them with free ammo stocks, and the larger company types have so many points availble it'd be insane to NOT invest in it. I had to actually struggle to make a mercenary company that was low on ammo, and the end result made no sense. why would a company with paranoid security and 1 tank or giant robot (not power armor, the big robots or tanks) for every 5 mercenaries not provide infantry weapons for the rest?

I actually adore the original Ulti-Max, mostly for the look of it. It lust looks cool. The Ulti-Max II, not so much.
The stock Ulti-Max isn't bad at all, really. But let one of my characters have an Ulti-Max, then turn a techno-wizard and either a psi-tech or operator loose on it to finish setting it up as a weapon of mass destruction.

I can't figure out why they keep calling it powered armor when the operator is driving it instead of wearing it. It's clearly a small robot.

Sir Neil wrote:I can't figure out why they keep calling it powered armor when the operator is driving it instead of wearing it. It's clearly a small robot.

They talk about that in it's write up. It's only considered a PA because of its size. Just as the terror Trooper is for the CS. In my games I rule it a Robot as I do my Robot Combat Elite differently than by the book.

IMO 'powered armor' = 'controlled by pilots movements'
and 'robots' = 'controlled via fighter type cockpit'

since seeing the film avatar i've assumed that units like the ultimax use a control system similar to the AMP suits. where the arms and upper body is controlled by copying the pilot's movements power armor style, and the legs are controlled via a fighter style system of pedals, robot style.

before that film, i'd assumed it was more Full Metal Panic armslave style and chalked the lack of tiring to just good ergonomics. though Armslave's are really more of a full PA control system used for a giant robot.

I ma pretty sure the Ultimax and Terror Trooper are said to have actual cockpits not any kind of slaving system.

dragonfett wrote:

ZINO wrote:The force field WAS ok but replace with NE The force field(240 MD ) make it bad ,replace the 1d6x10 to at least a better damage 2d4x10 or dare i say 3D4x10 , hell with it add a GD Boom gun ploys 3d6x10 add modifications
well now we got a modded beast
well that me IMHO
still it was just the second best robot vehicle IMHO

If we are modding the Ulti-Max, why not leave the original Force Field installed, ADD a robot version of the Naruni N-F40A Heavy Force Field (it has 320 MDC). That ups the total protection by force fields to 420 MDC, which is as good of protection for some robot vehicles. And while we are at it, why not add some SRM launchers? And I would add a plasma cannon under the main gun that is tied to the main power so in the event that you run out of ammo for the mini-missiles (and SRM's if they were added) AND the rail gun, then you still have a decent fall back weapon.

OMG i am taking notes from you man
you rock man!!! I agree love and taking it !!! SRM launchers i dont know but the BOOM gun and plyons or the cheaper version from the black market bring an idea !!!or a plasma cannon under the main gun that is tied to the main power so in the event that you run out of ammo for the mini-missiles nice !!!!

Just realized today I was wrong, the Ulti-Max does appear in additional art. It is in the early part of the first Conversion Book, shown shooting through a Cyclops who is throwing lightning at it, so that answeres my question, it does appear in art released right around the same time and by the same artist. It is never re-drawn by another artist to my knowledge.

Gryphon wrote:I looked at the concept the Ultimax represented, and parsed it and others like it off under the heading of Battle Movers. It still worked because the skill Robot & Power Armor Combat just became Robot, Battle Mover & Power Armor Combat, and the Elite combat skill was still goign to be needed no matter what. Mechanically, the distinction was mostly there so people would stop asking me why such and such unit was considered a PA unit, when it clearly "wasn't".

I am not entirely sure if this would work under R:UE or not. I would probably add a class effect for this though, under Mercenary or whatever, to represent a different approach to either smaller PA units of larger Robot units. Mainly, it would be a factor for Triax really, and a few others with borderline units.

RUE has a class called Robot/PA Pilot and you choose an MOS accordingly. That would just become Robot/Bettle mover/PA pilot.

jaymz wrote:It just LOOKS badass.

That being said the gun should probably have been upped to be on par with the Shemarrian Railgun damage wise in my opnion.

Really at 1d6x 10 is pretty standard type damage for power armor/robots. The vast majority of robot/power armor main guns do 1d4x10 or 1d6x10 especially for something the size of the ultimax. One odd thing looking at the triax 2 book they switch out the rail gun for a laser gun which is nice but it has half the range of the old ultimax main gun. The originals 6k foot range put it into the long range category for rifts weaponry most things are 2-4k range and that extra range alone made the orignals weapon pretty darn solid.

The description of the original says it is the best power armor since the glitterboy and at the time that was a completely true statement. With its armor/long range gun/lots of mini missiles at that time frame the only power armor better was the glitterboy.

I was looking through triax2 a bit I have to say I kinda like the look of the original ulti max a bit better but the newer one does look more "triax". HOLY CARP does the new ulti max packs around 70 mini missiles. It may be a bit pokey speed wise but the ultimax 2 is a scary scary scary power armor. Do a big salvo of missiles and then throw up the force field would pretty much kill anything but a glitterbody on the alpha strike with the force field set to take the brunt of anything the opponent manages to send back. Ultimax 2's force field covering 150 mdc and having a 6 hour max recharge rate instead of 24 hours makes it a pretty amazing set of power armor.

kaid wrote:

jaymz wrote:It just LOOKS badass.

That being said the gun should probably have been upped to be on par with the Shemarrian Railgun damage wise in my opnion.

Really at 1d6x 10 is pretty standard type damage for power armor/robots. The vast majority of robot/power armor main guns do 1d4x10 or 1d6x10 especially for something the size of the ultimax.

Except for the fat the gun is actually bigger than anything else barring the Guns on the Spider Skull Walker. I still think 2d6x10 would have made more sense and really showed how badass it was compared to other things. Really it isn't all that much better than a UAR-1 enforcer. It isn't that much smaller and the Enforecer actually has more firepower overall since it carries SRMs and MRMs as well as MMs.

jaymz wrote:

kaid wrote:

jaymz wrote:It just LOOKS badass.

That being said the gun should probably have been upped to be on par with the Shemarrian Railgun damage wise in my opnion.

Really at 1d6x 10 is pretty standard type damage for power armor/robots. The vast majority of robot/power armor main guns do 1d4x10 or 1d6x10 especially for something the size of the ultimax.

Except for the fat the gun is actually bigger than anything else barring the Guns on the Spider Skull Walker. I still think 2d6x10 would have made more sense and really showed how badass it was compared to other things. Really it isn't all that much better than a UAR-1 enforcer. It isn't that much smaller and the Enforecer actually has more firepower overall since it carries SRMs and MRMs as well as MMs.

The fact that a 16 foot tall single man power armor is comprable to or better than a UAR-1 shows how good it really is. It is head and shoulders better than all other power armor of its time for durability/and offense except the glitterboy and holds its own or is better than most robot vehicles of its time as well.

But it isn't REALLY a Power Armour at all and it is only 4ft (unless you include the tubes which make it the same height) as the Enforcer. Honestly by the numbers/stats the Enforcer should be it's comparable not a GB or any other PA for that matter.

Also it says right in it's description that it is considered a PA because of it's small size (specifically under 20ft at a height of 16ft though it IS 20ft tall to the top of the tubes). If that is the Case then the Enforcer should ALSO be considered a PA since it is also under 20ft in size (19ft 7in).



Edit - Otherwise It is a robot since you sit in a cockpit and you do not wear it as you would a PA.

jaymz wrote:Also it says right in it's description that it is considered a PA because of it's small size (specifically under 20ft at a height of 16ft though it IS 20ft tall to the top of the tubes). If that is the Case then the Enforcer should ALSO be considered a PA since it is also under 20ft in size (19ft 7in).



Edit - Otherwise It is a robot since you sit in a cockpit and you do not wear it as you would a PA.

The line between power armor and robots is kinda murky but the one clear line is single occupant/multiple occupants.

I have never seen any power armor listed even the mini robot triax modes that had multiple occupants all are single person units. Robot vehicles typically have at least a pilot and a gunner and sometimes more. There may be a few robot vehicles with only one pilot but there are nothing listed as power armor that has multiple occupants.