Forums of the Megaverse®

Armorlord wrote:Well, I was about the say that 1/285 scale infantry would be tricky, but I took a moment to Google it first, and it seems there several wargames that make use of that scale for infantry combat, along with their gear and vertices, so hell, go for it I say. Likely takes a very fine casting process, but even then, I imagine to cost with the smaller size wouldn't be too bad.

Edit: Some examples for size-
http://www.odinartcollectables.com/imag ... fantry.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8201/8203 ... b813_c.jpg

jedi078 wrote:I had a GI JOE train set with very small army men. They were not the 2 inch tall figures you can commonly find in stores. Those might work in a pinch for dismounted infantry (or civilians fleeing from Battle Pods) in any Robotech RPG tactics game.

RiverJack wrote:They made some good infantry pieces in Mech Warrior dark ages.

glitterboy2098 wrote:

jedi078 wrote:I had a GI JOE train set with very small army men. They were not the 2 inch tall figures you can commonly find in stores. Those might work in a pinch for dismounted infantry (or civilians fleeing from Battle Pods) in any Robotech RPG tactics game.

how tall were those?
if i had to guess, i'd assume 1/72nd, or about 20mm tall. it would be hard to use such a different scale in a true-line-of-sight game. it would be like having a 20ft human.

glitterboy2098 wrote:for those curious, infantry in the RT:tactics game would be about 6mm tall. there are a large number of games which use this scale, complete with infantry.
a multitude of historical microarmor games, which usually use figures from GHQ, Heroic and Ros, and dozens of other manufacturers. these are generally sculpted to represent forces from a variety of militaries between ww2 and modern times. and while quite small, they have been sculpted to have a fialry good amount of detail.

there are also more scifi versions out there. warhammer40K has a specialist game i nthe same scale called "epic armageddon" with a larger range of infantry and vehicles.
Ground Zero Games produces a wide range of scifi and anime inspired ones, and i know of dozens of others doing various types of scifi in that scale

jedi078 wrote:I had a GI JOE train set with very small army men. They were not the 2 inch tall figures you can commonly find in stores. Those might work in a pinch for dismounted infantry (or civilians fleeing from Battle Pods) in any Robotech RPG tactics game.

how tall were those?
if i had to guess, i'd assume 1/72nd, or about 20mm tall. it would be hard to use such a different scale in a true-line-of-sight game. it would be like having a 20ft human.

you could use figures from the "28mm" scale (about 1/56th) for Zentraedi though, if your not picky about inaccurate equipment.

RiverJack wrote:They made some good infantry pieces in Mech Warrior dark ages.

mechwarrior dark ages/age of destruction was 1/144th scale, or 12mm.

Battletech has some good infantry figures.. the old Ral Partha ones were 6mm, though details were a bit iffy. the newer Iron Wind metals ones are closer to 8mm, letting them have better detail, but slightly out of scale. since the battletech mechs and vehicles are not precisely scaled the way these TRtactics figures are, it works for battletech. personally i use GHQ infantry in my Btech games.

rtsurfer wrote:As far as conventional ASC combat vehicles in Masters, aren't there like 4, 5 if the Syphlid isn't a VF. Of these the aircraft seem to have a more prominent role and IIRC most get taken out rather easily by the Masters forces.

rtsurfer wrote:There's the Syphlid - which is called a Veritech although it never transforms, the Chimera, and the duck billed one which IINM only shows up like once. I recall two armored ground units, the missile launcher (with 2 or 3 different type launchers) and the armored transport which seems to have a command basket option.

rtsurfer wrote:There are other conventional & hover vehicles which don't really seem to have an active role in combat. The iconic Hover cycle & the Hover transport platform might be the exceptions, the later as it is apparently used to transport Battloids/Power Armors to the front line. There were a lot of Battle Robots designed for Southern Cross but only a couple are actually in the series and two in combat, the Recon Cyclops & Golom/Garm, which may come in two scales.

rtsurfer wrote:Like the Battle Robots there were quite a few matching armors designed, each for a specific environment and several are seen when forces are shown ready for the final battle. There are also the pilot and tanker armors not to mention the Masters Infantry. I wonder at the 6 mm scale how much of the stylized details will be discernible, color may play the main factor in distinguishing the different units.

rtsurfer wrote:Going by the ND Macross sets I would speculate that the Masters set would begin with about 4 Hovertanks, 3 Logans, 1 Red Bioroid, about 6-8 Blue Bioriods with separate Hoversleds. Goals/Add-ons would likely include SE Dana VHT, SE Marie Logan, Green Bioroid, Scout Bioroid, Golam/Garm (possibly two models at different scales), Hover transport platform, Recon Cyclops, ASC Recon craft (Bubblebee), and as higher stretch goals a triumverate of Invid Fighter Bioroids, space equipped VHTs, the Ajax/AGAC, & possibly a SE Marie Ajax. If the ks/preorders go well I could imagine they might add a missile launcher with build options, armored transport with build options, Terminator armor triumverate, Masters infantry, ASC infantry, ASC Hover cycle group, a swarm of Triumverphoids, and the spotlight (j/k on the last one). If it performed really well maybe some of the unseen ASC mecha.

Sgt Anjay wrote:

rtsurfer wrote:As far as conventional ASC combat vehicles in Masters, aren't there like 4, 5 if the Syphlid isn't a VF. Of these the aircraft seem to have a more prominent role and IIRC most get taken out rather easily by the Masters forces.

Well, if how easily they’re taken out is a factor, any non-hero design goes down like a chump for the most part. That would’ve ruled out all the destroids.

rtsurfer wrote:There's the Syphlid - which is called a Veritech although it never transforms, the Chimera, and the duck billed one which IINM only shows up like once. I recall two armored ground units, the missile launcher (with 2 or 3 different type launchers) and the armored transport which seems to have a command basket option.

Which doesn’t change that the conventional designs were much more prominent in the ASC than the other chapters; all the aircraft and both the missile launcher and IFV are shown in combat, the Sylphid many times, the Chimera in multiple notable instances.

rtsurfer wrote:There are other conventional & hover vehicles which don't really seem to have an active role in combat. The iconic Hover cycle & the Hover transport platform might be the exceptions, the later as it is apparently used to transport Battloids/Power Armors to the front line. There were a lot of Battle Robots designed for Southern Cross but only a couple are actually in the series and two in combat, the Recon Cyclops & Golom/Garm, which may come in two scales.

Actually, Salamanders make multiple appearances, including combat. And, of course, there is an appearance by a Dryad’s leg in one shot.

rtsurfer wrote:Like the Battle Robots there were quite a few matching armors designed, each for a specific environment and several are seen when forces are shown ready for the final battle. There are also the pilot and tanker armors not to mention the Masters Infantry. I wonder at the 6 mm scale how much of the stylized details will be discernible, color may play the main factor in distinguishing the different units.

How much detail they can get on the infantry-sized units is a consideration, assuming they’re kept perfectly to scale, but this game would hardly be the only one to use infantry at that scale. Once you bother to learn what helmet features to look for, what branch an individual armor is isn’t that hard to distinguish, though the rank differences between enlisted and NCO are tricky. Still, I don’t think anyone is pushing for infantry squads ahead of the core mecha forces.

rtsurfer wrote:Going by the ND Macross sets I would speculate that the Masters set would begin with about 4 Hovertanks, 3 Logans, 1 Red Bioroid, about 6-8 Blue Bioriods with separate Hoversleds. Goals/Add-ons would likely include SE Dana VHT, SE Marie Logan, Green Bioroid, Scout Bioroid, Golam/Garm (possibly two models at different scales), Hover transport platform, Recon Cyclops, ASC Recon craft (Bubblebee), and as higher stretch goals a triumverate of Invid Fighter Bioroids, space equipped VHTs, the Ajax/AGAC, & possibly a SE Marie Ajax. If the ks/preorders go well I could imagine they might add a missile launcher with build options, armored transport with build options, Terminator armor triumverate, Masters infantry, ASC infantry, ASC Hover cycle group, a swarm of Triumverphoids, and the spotlight (j/k on the last one). If it performed really well maybe some of the unseen ASC mecha.

But the point is the ASC isn’t made up of the same kinds of units as the 1st Robotech War UEDF (there are, for example, three types of wholly different veritechs), they don’t fight like the 1st Robotech War UEDF (what’s the words? Oh yeah, combined arms), and shoehorning them into an identical composition when they should be structured differently does no one any good. And it doesn’t at all take advantage of the unique features of Masters Saga.

Different factions need to be distinct, whether its a tabletop game, turn-based strategy, or RTS. The plethora of specialized machines of the Southern Cross is what makes them stand out. Instead of a pack with four units of two different types of destroids, which are very large war machines, an equivalent pack for the Southern Cross could have a high quantity with a greater variety of battloids, which all interact with each other and other ASC units in different ways depending on enemy and terrain. That’s a worthwhile representation of the ASC, not “Generic Robotech Army C”.

rtsurfer wrote:

Sgt Anjay wrote:

rtsurfer wrote:As far as conventional ASC combat vehicles in Masters, aren't there like 4, 5 if the Syphlid isn't a VF. Of these the aircraft seem to have a more prominent role and IIRC most get taken out rather easily by the Masters forces.

Well, if how easily they’re taken out is a factor, any non-hero design goes down like a chump for the most part. That would’ve ruled out all the destroids.

rtsurfer wrote:There's the Syphlid - which is called a Veritech although it never transforms, the Chimera, and the duck billed one which IINM only shows up like once. I recall two armored ground units, the missile launcher (with 2 or 3 different type launchers) and the armored transport which seems to have a command basket option.

Which doesn’t change that the conventional designs were much more prominent in the ASC than the other chapters; all the aircraft and both the missile launcher and IFV are shown in combat, the Sylphid many times, the Chimera in multiple notable instances.

Personally, I would like to have Sylphid & Chimera, I'm sure Macross fans would like Ghost & Lancers. It's true that conventional designs had a more prominent role in the ASC, but for most people I think Robotech = Mecha.

rtsurfer wrote:

rtsurfer wrote:There are other conventional & hover vehicles which don't really seem to have an active role in combat. The iconic Hover cycle & the Hover transport platform might be the exceptions, the later as it is apparently used to transport Battloids/Power Armors to the front line. There were a lot of Battle Robots designed for Southern Cross but only a couple are actually in the series and two in combat, the Recon Cyclops & Golom/Garm, which may come in two scales.

Actually, Salamanders make multiple appearances, including combat. And, of course, there is an appearance by a Dryad’s leg in one shot.

Hey, the Salamanders slipped my mind, thanks for reminding me.

rtsurfer wrote:

rtsurfer wrote:Like the Battle Robots there were quite a few matching armors designed, each for a specific environment and several are seen when forces are shown ready for the final battle. There are also the pilot and tanker armors not to mention the Masters Infantry. I wonder at the 6 mm scale how much of the stylized details will be discernible, color may play the main factor in distinguishing the different units.

How much detail they can get on the infantry-sized units is a consideration, assuming they’re kept perfectly to scale, but this game would hardly be the only one to use infantry at that scale. Once you bother to learn what helmet features to look for, what branch an individual armor is isn’t that hard to distinguish, though the rank differences between enlisted and NCO are tricky. Still, I don’t think anyone is pushing for infantry squads ahead of the core mecha forces.

I seriously doubt they want to go through the trouble of making like a dozen distinct helmets on tiny infantry. I expect we'll be lucky just to get one set for ASC, maybe a mixture of male & female, & another set for the Masters.

rtsurfer wrote:

rtsurfer wrote:Going by the ND Macross sets I would speculate that the Masters set would begin with about 4 Hovertanks, 3 Logans, 1 Red Bioroid, about 6-8 Blue Bioriods with separate Hoversleds. Goals/Add-ons would likely include SE Dana VHT, SE Marie Logan, Green Bioroid, Scout Bioroid, Golam/Garm (possibly two models at different scales), Hover transport platform, Recon Cyclops, ASC Recon craft (Bubblebee), and as higher stretch goals a triumverate of Invid Fighter Bioroids, space equipped VHTs, the Ajax/AGAC, & possibly a SE Marie Ajax. If the ks/preorders go well I could imagine they might add a missile launcher with build options, armored transport with build options, Terminator armor triumverate, Masters infantry, ASC infantry, ASC Hover cycle group, a swarm of Triumverphoids, and the spotlight (j/k on the last one). If it performed really well maybe some of the unseen ASC mecha.

But the point is the ASC isn’t made up of the same kinds of units as the 1st Robotech War UEDF (there are, for example, three types of wholly different veritechs), they don’t fight like the 1st Robotech War UEDF (what’s the words? Oh yeah, combined arms), and shoehorning them into an identical composition when they should be structured differently does no one any good. And it doesn’t at all take advantage of the unique features of Masters Saga.

Masters has to do well, I suspect most have low exceptions for that era based on its negative reputation. I imagine ND, or whomever produces the Masters minis, will go with what they think works -- essentially follow the formula that's working for Macross.

rtsurfer wrote:

Different factions need to be distinct, whether its a tabletop game, turn-based strategy, or RTS. The plethora of specialized machines of the Southern Cross is what makes them stand out. Instead of a pack with four units of two different types of destroids, which are very large war machines, an equivalent pack for the Southern Cross could have a high quantity with a greater variety of battloids, which all interact with each other and other ASC units in different ways depending on enemy and terrain. That’s a worthwhile representation of the ASC, not “Generic Robotech Army C”.

Sets & packaging is primarily driven by production costs and anticipated interest.

rtsurfer wrote:Will non-Masters/SC fans invest in a wide variety of battloids where they probably don't know one from the others?

Sgt Anjay wrote:I’ll throw in my two cents, and it’s summed up with two words: combined arms.

The ASC is combined arms top to bottom, front to back. It’s the hallmark of how they operate. TC infantry fighting vehicles in trouble? Send in TASC Logans, then follow that up with ATAC hovertanks. A hovertank unit in trouble performing a clandestine rescue disguised as a training mission? Crash down on the scene of battle with REP battloids and GMP backup. TAF having issues with enemy air defense? Send a wing to cover airborne deployment of hovertanks to bring the ship to the ground. Need to crack the ship’s outer hull now? Bring in TSC Chimeras from your space forces to salvo a weak point for TASC Logans to exploit to make an opening for the hovertanks. Even in space they developed combined arms tactics, beyond the standard TASC/TSC pairings, having Ajax wings cover a hovertank boarding party. Let’s face it; nobody even blinked when a TASC mission to send shuttles to reestablish communications with Liberty was filled out by ATAC volunteers.

And these are just examples we see in the show. Factor in that whatever terrain the enemy has chosen to fight in, the ASC has an elite force trained to win in that specific thing, and now it’s even more all about getting the right force with the right gear in the right spot at the right time.

Combined arms, combined arms, combined arms.

rtsurfer wrote:As far as conventional ASC combat vehicles in Masters, aren't there like 4, 5 if the Syphlid isn't a VF. Of these the aircraft seem to have a more prominent role and IIRC most get taken out rather easily by the Masters forces. There's the Syphlid - which is called a Veritech although it never transforms, the Chimera, and the duck billed one which IINM only shows up like once. I recall two armored ground units, the missile launcher (with 2 or 3 different type launchers) and the armored transport which seems to have a command basket option.

Sgt Anjay wrote: Its silly to one-for-one an ASC battloid with the bigger (not to mention missile-bearing) Spartan

ShadowLogan wrote:

Sgt Anjay wrote: Its silly to one-for-one an ASC battloid with the bigger (not to mention missile-bearing) Spartan

Technically the Salamander carries a complement of missiles, not as many as the Spartan or as potent (enhanced range mini-missiles vs standard Short Range). The other battloids aren't as heavily armed as the Salamander though. VHTs and other conventional vehicles appear to have taken over the artillery missions handled by the other Destroids.

rtsurfer wrote:http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpeg/aea1544fd94a88c3ea195b24afe783fd59fb512.jpg

rtsurfer wrote:http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpeg/aea1544fd94a88c3ea195b24afe783fd59fb512.jpg