Forums of the Megaverse®

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 1:32 pm**

I've never had someone play a Mind Melter or anything else of that nature for long enough to really see how buff it can get.

So I want to see if any of you have good stories about really tearing it up with psionics. 8-)

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 2:15 pm**

a lot of it depends on how much leeway your GM gives you.

Super TK can range from anywhere from "handy" to game breakingly powerful". if your GM lets you throw someone straight up for your max 600 foot range and let them fall, it's basically a death sentance even for someone in full body armor. 60d6 damage straight to SDC/HP regardless of the MDC of the armor. and if they survive...just do it again.;

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 2:28 pm**

There's also the classic using TK to pull the pins on their grenades, eject their e-clips, put the safeties back on for their weapons. And we won't even get to Bursters using Super Fuel flame on their pillar or wall of fire.

Daniel Stoker

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 3:01 pm**

Telemechanics+speed reading+total recall

telemechanics gets you the full schematic of any tech you can read, speed reading and total recall allows you to go over it whenever.

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 3:17 pm**

rat_bastard wrote:Telemechanics+speed reading+total recall

telemechanics gets you the full schematic of any tech you can read, speed reading and total recall allows you to go over it whenever.

That's how my ESP Specialist stole schematics for a Dragon Dreadnaut

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 4:30 pm**

Just TK and fire? No one's done anything insane with bio-manipulation or the like?

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 4:46 pm**

Alrik Vas wrote:Just TK and fire? No one's done anything insane with bio-manipulation or the like?

What's insane left to do? spam bio-manipulate pralasis until they fail the save. fight over.

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 4:51 pm**

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Alrik Vas wrote:Just TK and fire? No one's done anything insane with bio-manipulation or the like?

What's insane left to do? spam bio-manipulate pralasis until they fail the save. fight over.

If someone has been paralyzed (or whatever) by Bio-Manipulation, can Remove Curse undo the effect?

--flatline

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 4:56 pm**

Rolling Bear wrote:Domination, nothing like forcing someone to do all your illicit deeds and letting them take the fall for it.

My biggest gripe with domination is mages can do pretty much the same thing but don't turn themselves into veggies to do it. I always was a bit underwhelmed by the mind control powers of psionics.

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 4:57 pm**

Johnnycat93 wrote:
Rolling Bear wrote:
Johnnycat93 wrote:Burster Super Fuel Flame on a flaming sword. You end up with something like 80d6 damage per strike and a blade that is like 60 ft long.

........... How does this work?????

You use the power on thee sword, which is fire, and all if it's factors are increased by 10 fold (or 20 us you are from psyscape and choose to double super fuel flame). It requires no concentration to maintain and only costs a few ISP. Alternatively, you could super-fuel your flaming aura and get around 600 MDC

Pretty sure the psi scape doubling only works on psi powers you select not the RCC specific ones in fact I am pretty sure it mentions that specifically because if you can do that yes it turns bursters into crazy town.

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 5:21 pm**

flatline wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Alrik Vas wrote:Just TK and fire? No one's done anything insane with bio-manipulation or the like?

What's insane left to do? spam bio-manipulate pralasis until they fail the save. fight over.

If someone has been paralyzed (or whatever) by Bio-Manipulation, can Remove Curse undo the effect?

--flatline

It's not a curse, so I don't see why it would.

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 5:51 pm**

Alrik Vas wrote:I've never had someone play a Mind Melter or anything else of that nature for long enough to really see how buff it can get.

So I want to see if any of you have good stories about really tearing it up with psionics. 8-)

In one game, I used "Telekinetics: Super" to throw Camazotz up into the vortex in Yucatan Peninsula, so that he got lost in the Astral Plane for 300 years. The GM rolled a single 1 on his save vs. Psionics and that was the end of Camazotz in our campaign. The GM was less than happy but went along with it. I did not know what the vortex was at that point (that was before i bought any books myself) and I just wanted to throw him as high as possible so that he might take some damage falling down and hitting the ground as well as breaking his concentration while trying to cast a spell.

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 7:37 pm**

you can do a lot of damage with super telekinesis, at a very low cost, *if* you have the right objects to throw around.

for example, there's some vibro-polearm thing in the phase world book. those would be a good example of something you could swing around 1/level of to good effect (at a cost of 10 ISP for 1 minute/level and up to 100 lbs of weight). of course, this will most likely lead to your psychic carrying around a golf bag full of swords/spears/axes/whatever if carried through to it's logical conclusion.

sure, melee weapons may not be so awesome when you're swinging one or two of them in melee range, but they're not so bad when you're swinging half a dozen of them out to a few hundred feet away while you sit in near-total cover

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 7:54 pm**

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Alrik Vas wrote:Just TK and fire? No one's done anything insane with bio-manipulation or the like?

What's insane left to do? spam bio-manipulate pralasis until they fail the save. fight over.

Yea, Bio Manip Paralysis is a "I win" button. It's not often that I look at an ability and think: that's messed up. Especially when you compare it to the other Bio Manip effects.

It's so powerful a player has to make a conscious decision to not use it.

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 8:01 pm**

Mack wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Alrik Vas wrote:Just TK and fire? No one's done anything insane with bio-manipulation or the like?

What's insane left to do? spam bio-manipulate pralasis until they fail the save. fight over.

Yea, Bio Manip Paralysis is a "I win" button. It's not often that I look at an ability and think: that's messed up. Especially when you compare it to the other Bio Manip effects.

It's so powerful a player has to make a conscious decision to not use it.

Absolutely. when I have the power for a PC I have to make myself use it sparingly.

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 8:08 pm**

Alrik Vas wrote:I've never had someone play a Mind Melter or anything else of that nature for long enough to really see how buff it can get.

So I want to see if any of you have good stories about really tearing it up with psionics.

electro-kinesis: Scram reactors, eject pilots; can do the same/similar thing with Telemechanics mental operation. one of my personal favorite things to do is to simply eject the pilot from the power armor. leaves a fully or near fully intact power armor to either use or sell. I usually only scram reactors on large vehicles or power armors that don't have eject features.

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 9:18 pm**

torjones wrote:
Alrik Vas wrote:I've never had someone play a Mind Melter or anything else of that nature for long enough to really see how buff it can get.

So I want to see if any of you have good stories about really tearing it up with psionics.

electro-kinesis: Scram reactors, eject pilots; can do the same/similar thing with Telemechanics mental operation. one of my personal favorite things to do is to simply eject the pilot from the power armor. leaves a fully or near fully intact power armor to either use or sell. I usually only scram reactors on large vehicles or power armors that don't have eject features.

Power armor have ejection systems?

--flatline

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 11:05 pm**

flatline wrote:
torjones wrote:
Alrik Vas wrote:I've never had someone play a Mind Melter or anything else of that nature for long enough to really see how buff it can get.

So I want to see if any of you have good stories about really tearing it up with psionics.

electro-kinesis: Scram reactors, eject pilots; can do the same/similar thing with Telemechanics mental operation. one of my personal favorite things to do is to simply eject the pilot from the power armor. leaves a fully or near fully intact power armor to either use or sell. I usually only scram reactors on large vehicles or power armors that don't have eject features.

Power armor have ejection systems?

--flatline

just went back and re-read the description of Power Armor. Apparently, they don't have "Eject" systems. I've just been playing so long in groups that assumed that they had some way of easily getting in and out of the armor that when forcing the suit to "Shut down and allow the pilot to exit" has become synonymous with "eject." That, and we figured that since fighter jets have a way to get a pilot quickly and safely out of a stricken craft, that power armor would likely do so as well. (even if that's just "Open up and drop the pilot on the ground") Still, some form of Rapid Egress system would make sense, especially given that the description given in the Rifts main rulebook make donning a suit of power armor very simple and rapid process. "The human pilot steps into it and activates the armor." (Rifts p 211)

Sorry for any confusion...

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 11:38 pm**

flatline wrote:
torjones wrote:
Alrik Vas wrote:I've never had someone play a Mind Melter or anything else of that nature for long enough to really see how buff it can get.

So I want to see if any of you have good stories about really tearing it up with psionics.

electro-kinesis: Scram reactors, eject pilots; can do the same/similar thing with Telemechanics mental operation. one of my personal favorite things to do is to simply eject the pilot from the power armor. leaves a fully or near fully intact power armor to either use or sell. I usually only scram reactors on large vehicles or power armors that don't have eject features.

Power armor have ejection systems?

--flatline

flying ones probably do, and pretty much any power armour is going to need an emergency release that opens it up unless you think it's a good idea to leave your power armour pilots trapped in a 500 pound metal suit hooked up to electrical motors (which will resist your motion even if the weight wouldn't), helpless and lying there, waiting for an enemy to move in and slaughter them while they're defenseless.

which isn't to say that said contraption will necessarily be electrically controlled or powered. but i'd say it's very likely to exist. unless maybe you're dealing with a chipwell suit or something... i could see the bargain basement power armour cutting corners like that.

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 11:46 pm**

I just always assumed the front opened up when you wanted out or when it lost power. Similar to the suits in David Drake's Northworld trilogy.

--flatline

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2013 11:48 pm**

Actually, the MOST devastating use of psionics I've seen was an NPC taking out one of our PCs.
This was with the "Alter Alignment" power from 1st Edition PFRPG, which allows the psychic to not only rewrite the character's alignment, but also all loyalties and core personality.

Posted: **Sat May 18, 2013 1:05 am**

flatline wrote:I just always assumed the front opened up when you wanted out or when it lost power. Similar to the suits in David Drake's Northworld trilogy.

--flatline

well then based on that, you could most likely use electrokinesis to pop open a power armour suit in your games, since you could make that particular system lose power.

of course, this still leaves a few difficulties... like getting in range without getting shot, and dealing with the pilot... but it should be doable.

Posted: **Sat May 18, 2013 7:28 am**

The most devastating use of Psionics I can think of that popped up in our games (was in PF2E) involved using TK: Force Field to envelope the enemy and then use Pyrokenesis to create a pillar of flame in the bubble.

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=77442&hilit=Shadowlogan

Posted: **Sat May 18, 2013 10:02 pm**

I find bio maniplaition can be verry devistating.
Bio maniplaion bowl movement or puke.

Not flashy but whould hate to puke into a full helmet or mask.

Posted: **Sun May 19, 2013 4:27 pm**

Shark_Force wrote:
flatline wrote:I just always assumed the front opened up when you wanted out or when it lost power. Similar to the suits in David Drake's Northworld trilogy.

--flatline

well then based on that, you could most likely use electrokinesis to pop open a power armor suit in your games, since you could make that particular system lose power.

of course, this still leaves a few difficulties... like getting in range without getting shot, and dealing with the pilot... but it should be doable.

Really easily done when the GM believes in Fair Play, which means that unless your group can engage the enemy, the enemy won't engage your group. Otherwise, it's fairly easy, take cover to make sure that they can't see you, then prowl to close the distance outside their line of fire.

Once the pilot is out of his armor, he's roughly half as combat effective as he was a few seconds ago and depending on the armor he was just in he's likely unarmed as well, and I'm JUST as combat effective as I was a few seconds ago. One MD attack of your choice to the confused pilot and he's decorating the landscape (or not depending on what you kill him with).

Posted: **Sun May 19, 2013 4:38 pm**

Ninjabunny wrote:I once used Bio-manipulation to paralyze and opponent, then used it again to make them itch while they were unable to move.

Posted: **Sun May 19, 2013 7:17 pm**

Ninjabunny wrote:I once used Bio-manipulation to paralyze and opponent, then used it again to make them itch while they were unable to move.

KC's laughter aside, this isn't funny. If someone ever did that to me, I'd...I'm not sure what I'd do to them, but it wouldn't be pleasant. I'd track down some ancient curse of tickling that makes them immortal and tickles them for 10,000 years or something (and makes them vulnerable to tickling).

/Sub

Posted: **Sun May 19, 2013 7:52 pm**

Bio-manipulation is the primary reason that I use the Invulnerability spell. With +10 save vs psionics, I have a chance of saving until I can deal with/escape my attacker or he runs out of ISP.

--flatline

Posted: **Sun May 19, 2013 8:07 pm**

I never realized psionics were so unbelievably powerful. I mean, hypnotic suggestion is powerful as hell, but I'd not considered this aspect of it. Why in the hell is Psi-Sword limited to third level and higher, but this freakishly unfair power not?

Posted: **Sun May 19, 2013 9:15 pm**

Subjugator wrote:I never realized psionics were so unbelievably powerful. I mean, hypnotic suggestion is powerful as hell, but I'd not considered this aspect of it. Why in the hell is Psi-Sword limited to third level and higher, but this freakishly unfair power not?

psionics has several really powerful abilities. the thing is, it only has those few powerful abilities, and there's already next to no variety.

if you have a pair of level 3 mind melters, odds are good you'll find that their power choices are 90% or more identical.

also, compared to magical methods of mind control, hypnotic suggestion really isn't all that powerful. which is kinda depressing, but yeah... if you're facing an enemy with mind control powers, don't look for a mind melter. it's much more likely to be a ley line walker.

Posted: **Sun May 19, 2013 9:59 pm**

Subjugator wrote:I never realized psionics were so unbelievably powerful. I mean, hypnotic suggestion is powerful as hell, but I'd not considered this aspect of it. Why in the hell is Psi-Sword limited to third level and higher, but this freakishly unfair power not?

No idea. but are you begining to see why the coalition bans mind melters from it's territory entirely (except those who sign on to psi-battalion?). Even one mind melter can wreak incredible damage when used smartly.

Posted: **Sun May 19, 2013 10:05 pm**

Subjugator wrote:I never realized psionics were so unbelievably powerful. I mean, hypnotic suggestion is powerful as hell, but I'd not considered this aspect of it. Why in the hell is Psi-Sword limited to third level and higher, but this freakishly unfair power not?

Meh. There are lots of powers in Rifts that are effectively one failed saving throw away from ending your participation in a fight. Most of the them are magic which means that an ally with Negate Magic (or Dispel Magic Barrier or Anti-Magic Cloud or whatever) has a chance to bring you back. My temporal wizards always give talismans of Negate Magic to their allies for exactly this reason.

Bio-Manipulation is annoying because I'm not aware of anything that can release you from its effects before the duration.

--flatline

Posted: **Mon May 20, 2013 8:46 am**

Shark_Force wrote:
Subjugator wrote:I never realized psionics were so unbelievably powerful. I mean, hypnotic suggestion is powerful as hell, but I'd not considered this aspect of it. Why in the hell is Psi-Sword limited to third level and higher, but this freakishly unfair power not?

psionics has several really powerful abilities. the thing is, it only has those few powerful abilities, and there's already next to no variety.

if you have a pair of level 3 mind melters, odds are good you'll find that their power choices are 90% or more identical.

also, compared to magical methods of mind control, hypnotic suggestion really isn't all that powerful. which is kinda depressing, but yeah... if you're facing an enemy with mind control powers, don't look for a mind melter. it's much more likely to be a ley line walker.

Well the Mind Melters do have a much smaller list to pull from compared to Magic types. The higher the level the Mind Melters, the more likely they are to have overlap, unlike mages.

Posted: **Mon May 20, 2013 1:08 pm**

Flash-Freeze grenades can be used by anyone. Not too expensive either. Bio-Manip is still a 16 / 12 / 10 saving throw or 6 for a Psi-Stalker or IMMUNE for a Mind-Bleeder. With +1 or +2 vs psionics base and Invulnerability can you imagine how must ISP will have to be burned to "paralyze" one combatant? Maybe I just play in a different type of game.

My PCs "buff up" before a fight so that everyone has Invuln, AoIthan, talismans of AoI, talismans of MARush, talismans of Time Slip, etc. Mind Melters have many other tools in their arsenal besides BM (bio-manip not bowel movement)!!!

Maybe I'm used to playing in a different type of campaign. I know in the campaign I run Bio-Manipulate has NEVER been used by PCs -- only my NPCs -- because it doesn't benefit from levels like "spell strength" and only affects one person. For avoiding situations and schmoozing past content Hypno Sugg has been far more useful and for the hairy fights...there's NO SAVING THROW against super-telekinesis.

Personally, bio-manip is balanced...kinda over-rated in my opinion...but in a lower level / power campaign it works decently. How many psychics who have the ISP pool to "spam" this power and not be left flat-footed in a decent-length / size encounter? When they're creating psi-swords and using super-tk all of a sudden you'll think twice about how much ISP you're willing to waste to paralyze one combatant at...um...90ft? What's the range again? I know it's not even HALF of what a TW-net gun can do and that's almost better since who the EFF wants to try to DODGE your netgun STRIKE roll.

Posted: **Mon May 20, 2013 1:42 pm**

Witchcraft wrote:Flash-Freeze grenades can be used by anyone. Not too expensive either. Bio-Manip is still a 16 / 12 / 10 saving throw or 6 for a Psi-Stalker or IMMUNE for a Mind-Bleeder. With +1 or +2 vs psionics base and Invulnerability can you imagine how must ISP will have to be burned to "paralyze" one combatant? Maybe I just play in a different type of game.

How many psi stalkers/mind bleeders/mages who actually have invunerability do you run into? i've played in long running rifts game where they are very rare occurances.

My PCs "buff up" before a fight so that everyone has Invuln, AoIthan, talismans of AoI, talismans of MARush, talismans of Time Slip, etc. Mind Melters have many other tools in their arsenal besides BM (bio-manip not bowel movement)!!!

Maybe I'm used to playing in a different type of campaign.

Probablly. Yours sounds a lot like a typical dungeon crawl campaign. everyone has loads of magic loot which they distribute for maximum tactical advantage.

How many psychics who have the ISP pool to "spam" this power and not be left flat-footed in a decent-length / size encounter? When they're creating psi-swords and using super-tk all of a sudden you'll think twice about how much ISP you're willing to waste to paralyze one combatant at...um...90ft? What's the range again? I know it's not even HALF of what a TW-net gun can do and that's almost better since who the EFF wants to try to DODGE your netgun STRIKE roll.

Your game seems heavily magic gear-heavy, and most games i've played in are very sparce with the magic loot. couple that, encounters only tend to happen once every 6 sessions or so, so there's no real incentive to concerve ISP as you will always have time to rest up to max.

Posted: **Mon May 20, 2013 2:45 pm**

1 Mechanoid Brute (physicaly disabled by the LEEEERRRROOOOOY JENkins of the party in first initiative of first round) + a pile of grenades beside it + telekinesis = Entire sessions of the party being stymied trying to get down an elevator shaft.

I actually calculated the damage done to the PC's at nearly 8.77 times that of the damage inflicted to the Brute by the one captain testosterone munchkinoid.

Yeah... do NOT mess with a GM who knows how to use SIMPLE psionics to the best effect.

Posted: **Mon May 20, 2013 11:14 pm**

DhAkael wrote:1 Mechanoid Brute (physicaly disabled by the LEEEERRRROOOOOY JENkins of the party in first initiative of first round) + a pile of grenades beside it + telekinesis = Entire sessions of the party being stymied trying to get down an elevator shaft.

I actually calculated the damage done to the PC's at nearly 8.77 times that of the damage inflicted to the Brute by the one captain testosterone munchkinoid.

Yeah... do NOT mess with a GM who knows how to use SIMPLE psionics to the best effect.

regular telekinesis is limited to one object at a time.

most parties i've seen wouldn't be all that troubled by having to deal with a single grenade. oh, sure, nobody wants to eat a grenade blast (even if they are the rather unimpressive 2d6 MD variety), but it likely wouldn't take an entire session to deal with the problem.

Posted: **Tue May 21, 2013 1:13 am**

One at a time.
One after the other after the other after the other.
And all book legal.
...
An entire session.
Oh did I mention this was on Mars? and that they had to be VERY careful not to damage the walls? (most of the actions were used by the PC's to kep from sucking 1% atmposphere).
No?
Whoopsie... :demon:

Next time instead of griefing just nod and smile and go "oh good show".
Wins more smiles that way.

Posted: **Tue May 21, 2013 12:17 pm**

Shark_Force wrote:
DhAkael wrote:1 Mechanoid Brute (physicaly disabled by the LEEEERRRROOOOOY JENkins of the party in first initiative of first round) + a pile of grenades beside it + telekinesis = Entire sessions of the party being stymied trying to get down an elevator shaft.

I actually calculated the damage done to the PC's at nearly 8.77 times that of the damage inflicted to the Brute by the one captain testosterone munchkinoid.

Yeah... do NOT mess with a GM who knows how to use SIMPLE psionics to the best effect.

regular telekinesis is limited to one object at a time.

most parties i've seen wouldn't be all that troubled by having to deal with a single grenade. oh, sure, nobody wants to eat a grenade blast (even if they are the rather unimpressive 2d6 MD variety), but it likely wouldn't take an entire session to deal with the problem.

well if he was lifting the grenades themself but if he lifts what they are resting on he can do allot of damage.

Posted: **Tue May 21, 2013 12:22 pm**

Blue_Lion wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:
DhAkael wrote:1 Mechanoid Brute (physicaly disabled by the LEEEERRRROOOOOY JENkins of the party in first initiative of first round) + a pile of grenades beside it + telekinesis = Entire sessions of the party being stymied trying to get down an elevator shaft.

I actually calculated the damage done to the PC's at nearly 8.77 times that of the damage inflicted to the Brute by the one captain testosterone munchkinoid.

Yeah... do NOT mess with a GM who knows how to use SIMPLE psionics to the best effect.

regular telekinesis is limited to one object at a time.

most parties i've seen wouldn't be all that troubled by having to deal with a single grenade. oh, sure, nobody wants to eat a grenade blast (even if they are the rather unimpressive 2d6 MD variety), but it likely wouldn't take an entire session to deal with the problem.

well if he was lifting the grenades themself but if he lifts what they are resting on he can do allot of damage.

Only if they all blow up at the same time. If one blows up first, it'll scatter and potentially disable the others.

--flatline

Posted: **Tue May 21, 2013 1:08 pm**

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Witchcraft wrote:Flash-Freeze grenades can be used by anyone. Not too expensive either. Bio-Manip is still a 16 / 12 / 10 saving throw or 6 for a Psi-Stalker or IMMUNE for a Mind-Bleeder. With +1 or +2 vs psionics base and Invulnerability can you imagine how must ISP will have to be burned to "paralyze" one combatant? Maybe I just play in a different type of game.

How many psi stalkers/mind bleeders/mages who actually have invunerability do you run into? i've played in long running rifts game where they are very rare occurances.

I haven't used any NPC mind bleeders (although I have a Pucaran Mind Mage NPC who just entered) in my campaign yet and a tribe of wild psi-stalkers was a random encounter one time. Out of my group of PCs two can cast spells -- a 10th lvl Temp Wiz and a 9th level Shifter -- and both cast Invulnerability with a fair bit of regularity. The rare occurrences are the psi-stalkers and mind-bleeders -- not the Invulnerability spell. In my personal experience it's rare to find a magic-user above level 8 or 9 who hasn't at least failed an Invuln scroll conversion attempt or two.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
My PCs "buff up" before a fight so that everyone has Invuln, AoIthan, talismans of AoI, talismans of MARush, talismans of Time Slip, etc. Mind Melters have many other tools in their arsenal besides BM (bio-manip not bowel movement)!!!

Maybe I'm used to playing in a different type of campaign.

Probablly. Yours sounds a lot like a typical dungeon crawl campaign. everyone has loads of magic loot which they distribute for maximum tactical advantage.

LOL! How from that one-sentence description does the campaign I run sound like a typical dungeon-crawl? Regardless, the loot they've earned has definitely been distributed for maximum tactical advantage. Personally, I don't see why it wouldn't be. *cringe* As the GM I've populated the world / encounters with loot -- how it gets distributed is basically out of my hands.

How many psychics who have the ISP pool to "spam" this power and not be left flat-footed in a decent-length / size encounter? When they're creating psi-swords and using super-tk all of a sudden you'll think twice about how much ISP you're willing to waste to paralyze one combatant at...um...90ft? What's the range again? I know it's not even HALF of what a TW-net gun can do and that's almost better since who the EFF wants to try to DODGE your netgun STRIKE roll.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Your game seems heavily magic gear-heavy, and most games i've played in are very sparce with the magic loot. couple that, encounters only tend to happen once every 6 sessions or so, so there's no real incentive to concerve ISP as you will always have time to rest up to max.

The players have used their "down-time" to create talismans. Magic loot has pretty darn rare in my campaign (we've been gaming for almost a year and I believe the players have a few items but nothing over-the-top or outlandish) but the talismans are created by the two aforementioned magic-users when the opportunity presents itself -- they primarily spend their time "recharging" the talismans now.

The biggest difference I see is in your last sentence. An encounter every 6 sessions is a little too rare for my personal taste and my players had already voiced their collective opinions that my "once every two or three sessions" was too infrequent. Accommodating them has made me include a "random-encounter" chance in most of their travel-segments so they at least have a chance of running into something to kill. The way it was explained to me (by the more combat-centric / focused characters) was that because their characters were built for a single purpose there isn't much opportunity for them to participate in the more erudite aspects of the campaign (problem-solving, forensics, investigation, mystery-solving, etc.). The other philosophy I've embraced is letting the die determine the challenge level of random encounters. Should the PCs willingly enter into a protracted engagement I try my damnedest to make it challenging without being impossible. The spell invulnerability (not to exclude MARush and countless others) and the buffing has made certain things...um, not very challenging (I hesitate to use the word 'trivial') so I plan for their "buffing" accordingly in the crafting of a battle-sequence. A random encounter can totally be trivial -- I mean, they're heroes and they're here to save the MEGAVERSE IN FLAMES!!!! However, taking on the Nameseeker Squad -- I just can't pull any punches for it to feel authentic.

I apologize if this has been tengential. My original comment was based on the frequency with which I've seen Bio-Manipulation used to great effect. I fear that got totally lost in the tumult.

Posted: **Tue May 21, 2013 2:43 pm**

Group Mind Block has no save. It can be erected without the people within its area knowing that they are being "Mind Block-ed", and because it functions like the lesser power of the same name, it prevents even the most powerful entities from using any of their psionic abilities while the filed is in place. At best, someone from outside the Mind Block area could use Detect Psionics and realize what was going on, but otherwise everyone within is clueless.

Posted: **Tue May 21, 2013 3:11 pm**

flatline wrote:Bio-manipulation is the primary reason that I use the Invulnerability spell. With +10 save vs psionics, I have a chance of saving until I can deal with/escape my attacker or he runs out of ISP.

--flatline

I admit this isn't canon, but I have a house rule regarding Bio-Manipulation where I add another category to go along with blind, pain, paralysis, and the rest: Cancel Bio-Manipulation. Basically saying that if you have the Bio-Manipulation power, you have the ability to cancel not only your own, but other's as well.

It still makes for a devastating power, as you need someone with it to cancel attacks on you, but it becomes less of a party-killer. Or rather, less than a one-shot mechanism for punking your Boss-fight

Posted: **Tue May 21, 2013 7:00 pm**

flatline wrote:
Blue_Lion wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:
DhAkael wrote:1 Mechanoid Brute (physicaly disabled by the LEEEERRRROOOOOY JENkins of the party in first initiative of first round) + a pile of grenades beside it + telekinesis = Entire sessions of the party being stymied trying to get down an elevator shaft.

I actually calculated the damage done to the PC's at nearly 8.77 times that of the damage inflicted to the Brute by the one captain testosterone munchkinoid.

Yeah... do NOT mess with a GM who knows how to use SIMPLE psionics to the best effect.

regular telekinesis is limited to one object at a time.

most parties i've seen wouldn't be all that troubled by having to deal with a single grenade. oh, sure, nobody wants to eat a grenade blast (even if they are the rather unimpressive 2d6 MD variety), but it likely wouldn't take an entire session to deal with the problem.

well if he was lifting the grenades themself but if he lifts what they are resting on he can do allot of damage.

Only if they all blow up at the same time. If one blows up first, it'll scatter and potentially disable the others.

--flatline

It is unlikly that they will scater with explosives one going off sets them all off. That is how we re able to destroy huge catches of explosives at once.

Posted: **Tue May 21, 2013 7:34 pm**

Witchcraft wrote:I haven't used any NPC mind bleeders (although I have a Pucaran Mind Mage NPC who just entered) in my campaign yet and a tribe of wild psi-stalkers was a random encounter one time. Out of my group of PCs two can cast spells -- a 10th lvl Temp Wiz and a 9th level Shifter -- and both cast Invulnerability with a fair bit of regularity. The rare occurrences are the psi-stalkers and mind-bleeders -- not the Invulnerability spell. In my personal experience it's rare to find a magic-user above level 8 or 9 who hasn't at least failed an Invuln scroll conversion attempt or two.

It has a lot to do with how the GM sets up encounters. I've never seen scrolls used to any great effects. of course, the longest running rifts game I ever played in had a houserule that elimates casting times (all spells take only 1 attack unless ritual). I never LIKED the houserule because it made mages by far the most powerful class. but it also meant that talismens and scrolls were de-emphasised almost out of exsitance. so that probablly colors my experiance a good bit.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
My PCs "buff up" before a fight so that everyone has Invuln, AoIthan, talismans of AoI, talismans of MARush, talismans of Time Slip, etc. Mind Melters have many other tools in their arsenal besides BM (bio-manip not bowel movement)!!!

Maybe I'm used to playing in a different type of campaign.

Probablly. Yours sounds a lot like a typical dungeon crawl campaign. everyone has loads of magic loot which they distribute for maximum tactical advantage.

LOL! How from that one-sentence description does the campaign I run sound like a typical dungeon-crawl? Regardless, the loot they've earned has definitely been distributed for maximum tactical advantage. Personally, I don't see why it wouldn't be. *cringe* As the GM I've populated the world / encounters with loot -- how it gets distributed is basically out of my hands.

I said "Sounds like"--not is. I just use dungeon crawling to refer to any game that sees frequent combat, regardless of the actual nature of the game.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Your game seems heavily magic gear-heavy, and most games i've played in are very sparce with the magic loot. couple that, encounters only tend to happen once every 6 sessions or so, so there's no real incentive to concerve ISP as you will always have time to rest up to max.

The players have used their "down-time" to create talismans. Magic loot has pretty darn rare in my campaign (we've been gaming for almost a year and I believe the players have a few items but nothing over-the-top or outlandish) but the talismans are created by the two aforementioned magic-users when the opportunity presents itself -- they primarily spend their time "recharging" the talismans now.

I don't think you can say that magic items are rare if you give players the spells to make them. otherwise, as you said, they'll just start churning them out for themselves. again, not /bad/, but it's a distinctive style of play i'd say.

The biggest difference I see is in your last sentence. An encounter every 6 sessions is a little too rare for my personal taste and my players had already voiced their collective opinions that my "once every two or three sessions" was too infrequent. Accommodating them has made me include a "random-encounter" chance in most of their travel-segments so they at least have a chance of running into something to kill. The way it was explained to me (by the more combat-centric / focused characters) was that because their characters were built for a single purpose there isn't much opportunity for them to participate in the more erudite aspects of the campaign (problem-solving, forensics, investigation, mystery-solving, etc.). The other philosophy I've embraced is letting the die determine the challenge level of random encounters. Should the PCs willingly enter into a protracted engagement I try my damnedest to make it challenging without being impossible. The spell invulnerability (not to exclude MARush and countless others) and the buffing has made certain things...um, not very challenging (I hesitate to use the word 'trivial') so I plan for their "buffing" accordingly in the crafting of a battle-sequence. A random encounter can totally be trivial -- I mean, they're heroes and they're here to save the MEGAVERSE IN FLAMES!!!! However, taking on the Nameseeker Squad -- I just can't pull any punches for it to feel authentic.

everyones game can have a different feel.

and yes, a lot of the book NPC's are very much unchallanging to any even marginally optimised PC group without the GM taking a firmer hand.

I apologize if this has been tengential. My original comment was based on the frequency with which I've seen Bio-Manipulation used to great effect. I fear that got totally lost in the tumult.

I would imagine it's because what's powerful and what's not always depends on the context of the group and what tools are available to it. If you have scrolls of invunerability be so common every moderately leveled wizard has them, of course it's not used to great effect--everyone has a shield. Try any game where no one has a scroll of it, no one has a magic net gun, or time slip, and suddenly things change.

remember, the topic is "what psionics are very useful", not "how useful are psionics compared to magic". magic used properly far outstrips anything else in the game, so it's wrong to compare them. apples to shotguns.

Posted: **Tue May 21, 2013 7:46 pm**

Blue_Lion wrote:
flatline wrote:
Blue_Lion wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:
DhAkael wrote:1 Mechanoid Brute (physicaly disabled by the LEEEERRRROOOOOY JENkins of the party in first initiative of first round) + a pile of grenades beside it + telekinesis = Entire sessions of the party being stymied trying to get down an elevator shaft.

I actually calculated the damage done to the PC's at nearly 8.77 times that of the damage inflicted to the Brute by the one captain testosterone munchkinoid.

Yeah... do NOT mess with a GM who knows how to use SIMPLE psionics to the best effect.

regular telekinesis is limited to one object at a time.

most parties i've seen wouldn't be all that troubled by having to deal with a single grenade. oh, sure, nobody wants to eat a grenade blast (even if they are the rather unimpressive 2d6 MD variety), but it likely wouldn't take an entire session to deal with the problem.

well if he was lifting the grenades themself but if he lifts what they are resting on he can do allot of damage.

Only if they all blow up at the same time. If one blows up first, it'll scatter and potentially disable the others.

--flatline

It is unlikly that they will scater with explosives one going off sets them all off. That is how we re able to destroy huge catches of explosives at once.

Depends on the type of explosive. For instance, it would not work for a pile of fusion blocks. The first fusion block to explode would scatter and/or destroy the remaining fusion blocks (I'm assuming that fusion blocks use a nuclear mechanism just from their name...I don't know if they're ever explained in enough detail to know this for certain).

--flatline

Posted: **Wed May 22, 2013 11:22 am**

flatline wrote:
Blue_Lion wrote:
flatline wrote:
Blue_Lion wrote:
Only if they all blow up at the same time. If one blows up first, it'll scatter and potentially disable the others.

--flatline

It is unlikly that they will scater with explosives one going off sets them all off. That is how we re able to destroy huge catches of explosives at once.

Depends on the type of explosive. For instance, it would not work for a pile of fusion blocks. The first fusion block to explode would scatter and/or destroy the remaining fusion blocks (I'm assuming that fusion blocks use a nuclear mechanism just from their name...I don't know if they're ever explained in enough detail to know this for certain).

--flatline

I could have sworn that we where talking about grenades, witch as I understand it act simular to modern ones. Wait when from scater to destroy? And I said explosives, nucler bombs and such generaly are not lumped into the explosives as I understand it as it is a difrent process to creat the explositon. Exploisives are explosives and nukes are nukes.

Posted: **Wed May 22, 2013 12:44 pm**

As I understand it, a nuclear weapon requires an explosion to be set off anyway. It's like using a blasting cap.

Posted: **Wed May 22, 2013 1:23 pm**

Alrik Vas wrote:As I understand it, a nuclear weapon requires an explosion to be set off anyway. It's like using a blasting cap.

That's a bit of an oversimplification. precicly calibrating and timing the explosion so it actually works instead of just scattering the material is the hardest part. it's basically impossible to do by accident.

Posted: **Wed May 22, 2013 4:11 pm**

I absolutely agree, it does take a lot of precision.

I also doubt that fusion blocks could be stacked and set off just using one as an improptu apocalypse.

Though, you could program them to all go off at the same time.

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