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1E I would go with single arm being the damage listed (same weapon used in REF version, and it only has 1), generally if it is a dual blast or burst it is mentioned as such.

2E it is specifically listed with both single and dual blasts.

ShadowLogan wrote:1E I would go with single arm being the damage listed (same weapon used in REF version, and it only has 1), generally if it is a dual blast or burst it is mentioned as such.

2E it is specifically listed with both single and dual blasts.

-sigh- poor thing got nerfed...

DhAkael wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:1E I would go with single arm being the damage listed (same weapon used in REF version, and it only has 1), generally if it is a dual blast or burst it is mentioned as such.

2E it is specifically listed with both single and dual blasts.

-sigh- poor thing got nerfed...

meh just 'un nerf' it.

jedi078 wrote:

DhAkael wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:1E I would go with single arm being the damage listed (same weapon used in REF version, and it only has 1), generally if it is a dual blast or burst it is mentioned as such.

2E it is specifically listed with both single and dual blasts.

-sigh- poor thing got nerfed...

meh just 'un nerf' it.

What he said.

(jaymz can probably give you some pointers to that end, based on my research)

Many weapons across all platforms are "nerfed" but then again they weren't all that accurate in the original rpg either....

Gryphon wrote:Boost them up to 2D6x10, but reduce the range to something more practical for an RPG game, 20 miles is silly, however canon it might be.

I gave them a range of 2.5 miles in atmo, and pretty much doubled the damage listed in the book.

I've mucked about mixing & matching ranges / damage levels, etc etc with all the Destroid mecha.
Yes the ranges are insanely long range (in comparrison to in-game numbers, but NOT IRL / theortical ranges) but they're supposed to be.
You do NOT want to actually see the "whites of their eyes" (or in this case, red of their optics) before you wanna fire. You REALLY want to hit the shiney CANDY-LIKE red button on your control stick when they are a blip on the edge of your radar's MAXIMUM range.

Anything else is suicidely stupid.

DhAkael wrote:I've mucked about mixing & matching ranges / damage levels, etc etc with all the Destroid mecha.
Yes the ranges are insanely long range (in comparrison to in-game numbers, but NOT IRL / theortical ranges) but they're supposed to be.
You do NOT want to actually see the "whites of their eyes" (or in this case, red of their optics) before you wanna fire. You REALLY want to hit the shiney CANDY-LIKE red button on your control stick when they are a blip on the edge of your radar's MAXIMUM range.

Anything else is suicidely stupid.

personaly I am fine with the low damage as a trade off for the long range.

I want to point out that there are RL howitzers which are similar sized devices with similar ranges. I also point out that there are many lazer weapons with similar or greater ranges.

let examine the question: what does 20 miles of shooting mean versus twice the damage at 2.5 miles mean?

Well lets say you have a Queadluun-Rau power armor approaching you at top speed of 725 miles per hour. this power armor if it gets to you can release up to 12 mini missles per attack doing on average about 250 MDC per attack. when it does so per the rules YOU CANT DODGE. you can attempt to shoot down the missles....but probability says that many of the missles will get through and will eventually kill you. so you begin shooting at max range of 20 miles. remember these guns can only be fired twice per melee.

the Queadluun-Rau is moving at a speed of 3 miles per melee and it's maximum range weapon is a zentraedi style mini missle with a maximum range of mile. It will take the power armor 6 1/2 melees to close the distance while you are shooting at it. you can shoot 14 shots before the power armor can shoot it's missles. assuming about half of your shots will be misses or dodged, then you have 7 shots doing 2D6x10+20 worth of damage. you will be doing on average about 80 points of damage per shot. that means you did about 480 points of damage before the power armor got to you. DEAD Power Armor pretty much guaranteed.

now lets compare the shorter range doing more damage. now you cant begin to shoot until the Queadluun-Rau is 2.5 miles out. in about a half of a melee it will be in range to kill you so you fir off your two gun shots. probability says that on average only ONE of thouse shots will hit doing 2D6x20+40 worth of damage or on average 160 points of damage. now the power armor release's it's missles.... 12D4x10 every attack....for an average of 240 points per attack....which you cant dodge per missle rules. you can attempt to shoot down some of the missles with your other weapons...GOOD LUCK with that one. probability says that your tomahawk will be dead in three attacks from the Queadluun-Rau.

seriously folks....I like the tomahawk in it's as written form. its a mecha killer.

the distance to the horizon (the point where the curvature of the earth would take the target out of sight) for where those PBC's are located above ground is 6.4 miles., factoring out some variables.

so against ground targets on the same altitude, it can fire farther than it can see. in practise it can probably fire BVR out to full range, since the earth doesn't curve very sharply, and it's targets will generally be tall enough that bits will stick up over the horizon.

against flying/hovering targets that 20 mile range gives it a bubble-o-doom that can really whittle down an enemy horde.. as kermit has illustrated. and when you factor in things like the angle of a shot and how it increases the effective distance, that 20mile range really helps with shooting ground targets too.

Also: Space.

sirkermittsg wrote:

DhAkael wrote:I've mucked about mixing & matching ranges / damage levels, etc etc with all the Destroid mecha.
Yes the ranges are insanely long range (in comparrison to in-game numbers, but NOT IRL / theortical ranges) but they're supposed to be.
You do NOT want to actually see the "whites of their eyes" (or in this case, red of their optics) before you wanna fire. You REALLY want to hit the shiney CANDY-LIKE red button on your control stick when they are a blip on the edge of your radar's MAXIMUM range.

Anything else is suicidely stupid.

personaly I am fine with the low damage as a trade off for the long range.

I want to point out that there are RL howitzers which are similar sized devices with similar ranges. I also point out that there are many lazer weapons with similar or greater ranges.

let examine the question: what does 20 miles of shooting mean versus twice the damage at 2.5 miles mean?

Well lets say you have a Queadluun-Rau power armor approaching you at top speed of 725 miles per hour. this power armor if it gets to you can release up to 12 mini missles per attack doing on average about 250 MDC per attack. when it does so per the rules YOU CANT DODGE. you can attempt to shoot down the missles....but probability says that many of the missles will get through and will eventually kill you. so you begin shooting at max range of 20 miles. remember these guns can only be fired twice per melee.

the Queadluun-Rau is moving at a speed of 3 miles per melee and it's maximum range weapon is a zentraedi style mini missle with a maximum range of mile. It will take the power armor 6 1/2 melees to close the distance while you are shooting at it. you can shoot 14 shots before the power armor can shoot it's missles. assuming about half of your shots will be misses or dodged, then you have 7 shots doing 2D6x10+20 worth of damage. you will be doing on average about 80 points of damage per shot. that means you did about 480 points of damage before the power armor got to you. DEAD Power Armor pretty much guaranteed.

now lets compare the shorter range doing more damage. now you cant begin to shoot until the Queadluun-Rau is 2.5 miles out. in about a half of a melee it will be in range to kill you so you fir off your two gun shots. probability says that on average only ONE of thouse shots will hit doing 2D6x20+40 worth of damage or on average 160 points of damage. now the power armor release's it's missles.... 12D4x10 every attack....for an average of 240 points per attack....which you cant dodge per missle rules. you can attempt to shoot down some of the missles with your other weapons...GOOD LUCK with that one. probability says that your tomahawk will be dead in three attacks from the Queadluun-Rau.

seriously folks....I like the tomahawk in it's as written form. its a mecha killer.

Nice explanation. Great job!

Alpha 11 wrote:

sirkermittsg wrote:seriously folks....I like the tomahawk in it's as written form. its a mecha killer.

Nice explanation. Great job!

thank you.

sirkermittsg wrote:

Alpha 11 wrote:

sirkermittsg wrote:seriously folks....I like the tomahawk in it's as written form. its a mecha killer.

Nice explanation. Great job!

thank you.

Your welcome.

Of course, it's kinda difficult to get it up those mountains and high ridges where it can REALLY own the battlefield, air and ground.
Another reason, if you're facing them, to keep them from making their way to high ground.

High ground? They can hit to the horizon! They don't need no steenkeen high ground!

jaymz wrote:High ground? They can hit to the horizon! They don't need no steenkeen high ground!

as i point out in my post, the higher the ground, the farther the horizon is.. you want high ground to get full advantage of range against non-flying targets. and that's ignoring issues of intervening terrain ..

Why? just kill the terrain

In fact Carmen did just that in our demo game of tactics at Anime North. Took out a building then took my pods out too

jaymz wrote:Why? just kill the terrain

In fact Carmen did just that in our demo game of tactics at Anime North. Took out a building then took my pods out too

Carmen is plain Evil when it comes to his gaming. but that's ok.... I am one of the players that was a part of the team that beat him at the last open house. LOL Mike Leanord saw his mastermind mind control monkey bad guy and we worked together to win the game with NO PLAYERS LOST. even worse, it was a game for 12 players and we had 8 I think.

LOL Carmen autographed all our game sheets with the words "I am a looser". IT WAS EPIC. even Kevin laughed about it.

Carmen takes the direct approach regarding annoying terrain? that explains why Char had to get a new.. well city center at the end of Todd yoho's dinoswamp game at origins04. ever see what 2 cases of Plasma grenades can do when rigged with a single fuse and dropped from a SAMAS on the enemy? (and the party.. ugh. my guy got vaporized.. not sure even subatomic particles remained.. 2000mdc to the face....)

glitterboy2098 wrote:Carmen takes the direct approach regarding annoying terrain? that explains why Char had to get a new.. well city center at the end of Todd yoho's dinoswamp game at origins04. ever see what 2 cases of Plasma grenades can do when rigged with a single fuse and dropped from a SAMAS on the enemy? (and the party.. ugh. my guy got vaporized.. not sure even subatomic particles remained.. 2000mdc to the face....)

ooooo that gives me some ideas.