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those who have been playing palladium long enough remember the mechanoids, and the interesting concept from Rifts Sourcebook2: The Mechanoids, the 'Aberrant Mechanoids' or AbM's. Mechanoids which due to mutations or other such causes, had developed unique personalities and gone against their own kind. (note: these may stem from the original mechanoids RPG sourcebooks.. i don't have those, sadly, so i can only go by what is in the rifts sourcebook)

so i was thinking recently, why couldn't the RPG have 'aberrant Invid' in the same sense? we've seen the Gura-Invid, which establishes that Invid can mutate to be separate from the rest of the hive mind, so having other invid that aren't just drones in the hive mind certainly seems feasible. such independents could open up some interesting roleplay options. you could have Invid player characters that aren't human form royalty or simulagents, and you could have adventure plots involving Invid which act oddly or which befriend locals.. either of which could be used as plot hooks for infiltration of invid facilities or the saving of a town..

and you could easily have some or all of these independents left behind on earth when the Regis leaves, which would make the post-reflexpoint period games more interesting and give you something other than just haydonites, bandits, warlords, and rogue simulagents to deal with.

the main modification i can see such Aberrant Invid needing, compared to their normal bretheren, is the addition of IQ, ME, and MA stats, and maybe a selection of skills to form an RCC. since the non-humanoform invid can't leave their mecha, they don't really need physical stats, and most skills wouldn't apply.

glitterboy2098 wrote:those who have been playing palladium long enough remember the mechanoids, and the interesting concept from Rifts Sourcebook2: The Mechanoids, the 'Aberrant Mechanoids' or AbM's. Mechanoids which due to mutations or other such causes, had developed unique personalities and gone against their own kind. (note: these may stem from the original mechanoids RPG sourcebooks.. i don't have those, sadly, so i can only go by what is in the rifts sourcebook)

so i was thinking recently, why couldn't the RPG have 'aberrant Invid' in the same sense? we've seen the Gura-Invid, which establishes that Invid can mutate to be separate from the rest of the hive mind, so having other invid that aren't just drones in the hive mind certainly seems feasible. such independents could open up some interesting roleplay options. you could have Invid player characters that aren't human form royalty or simulagents, and you could have adventure plots involving Invid which act oddly or which befriend locals.. either of which could be used as plot hooks for infiltration of invid facilities or the saving of a town..

and you could easily have some or all of these independents left behind on earth when the Regis leaves, which would make the post-reflexpoint period games more interesting and give you something other than just haydonites, bandits, warlords, and rogue simulagents to deal with.

the main modification i can see such Aberrant Invid needing, compared to their normal bretheren, is the addition of IQ, ME, and MA stats, and maybe a selection of skills to form an RCC. since the non-humanoform invid can't leave their mecha, they don't really need physical stats, and most skills wouldn't apply.

well don't the lower classed invid have a continuing need for protoculture to feed on?

I could see an invid soldier (stage 4) easily having a mind of his own. they routinely communicate with humans.

that was part of my reasoning as well. along with the fact we see a blue eye'd scout that seemed to be taking command of the group following Marlene/ariel at Point K. which may well be Corg, pre-evolution, since that same blue eye shows up when the troopers are 'evolved' to enforcers later on, and when those same enforcers are evolved to the human forms.
and IIRC all invid prior to becoming a simulagent or royal (what i call 'humanoform' since they are invid in the form of humans) consume protoculture. though how much of that need is due to being bound to their mecha i'm not certain.

I've always considered the 'stage four' Invid to be a free thinker. Also I consider the stage 1 Invid infants, the stage 2's toddlers, and 3's as teenagers (which frequently pilot Invid Scouts, and Troopers). So the majority of Invid troops are really stage 4's, and there are a few 'Telsa' sized stage fours around which I consider minor kings/queens.

jedi078 wrote:I've always considered the 'stage four' Invid to be a free thinker. Also I consider the stage 1 Invid infants, the stage 2's toddlers, and 3's as teenagers (which frequently pilot Invid Scouts, and Troopers). So the majority of Invid troops are really stage 4's, and there are a few 'Telsa' sized stage fours around which I consider minor kings/queens.

I consider a stage four as capable of independent action but, limited on free thinking. Lesser Invid are waiting to be told what to do.

I resently was working on such an idea in my aborted SC campaign (stupid RL eating all my players!).

On one of the colony worlds the players come across a long crashed Zent destroyer burried under a landslide that's been partially uncovered by the local human population. A group of Anti-millitary rebels had converted it to a makeshift production facillity to make modded Zent mechs as troop transports.

Unfortunately for the rebels they'd they been kicked out by a group of maroond Invid. Cut off from the hivemind these Invid were led by a malfunctioning brain. Seeing no logical other option the brain used the Regis's research, gained before being cut off from the hivemind, to create a much more capable "mutant" Enforcer and Soldiers to harvest Protoculture from the destroyer's reactor and guide the Scouts, Troopers and a cache of recovered Inorganics in defending their makeshift hive.

Eventually these rapidly addapting Invid would develop to a level where they might have, if the PC's RPed well, come to some sort of alliance with the REF in the wake of the Haydonite betrayal.

ArmySGT. wrote:

jedi078 wrote:I've always considered the 'stage four' Invid to be a free thinker. Also I consider the stage 1 Invid infants, the stage 2's toddlers, and 3's as teenagers (which frequently pilot Invid Scouts, and Troopers). So the majority of Invid troops are really stage 4's, and there are a few 'Telsa' sized stage fours around which I consider minor kings/queens.

I consider a stage four as capable of independent action but, limited on free thinking. Lesser Invid are waiting to be told what to do.

I would say not so much limited on free thinking and simply highly indoctrinated.

Could also have Invid that have been "evolved" in the Genesis Pits to try out new biological features to get them to go rogue.

The idea of pre-Stage 5 (1E term) fission from the Invid Collective might explain the Regent, and he might not be the only one. I know that's from 1E, not sure if Regent's origins are touched upon in 2E or current canon. But the psychic fission would not be unheard of depending on the version one looks at.

As for skills, mecha descriptions lists skills & abilities of note, so the Invid do have skills and such by that point. Might take a bit of work to adapt the Royalty Class backward to get attributes and a full RCC for each stage. Their Perception % has something to do with their intelligence as they compare to each other (IIRC, IQ gives Perception Bonus). Then again if you have 1E you could simply adapt each stage Invid to the current scheme or use it as a baseline (Stage5 is not cut/paste between edition stats).

SC hoses me on one thing. In 1E it calls the invid that can talk Enforcers. in SC it calls then invid Soldiers. either way they are invid that can speak and that have bipedal exosuits.

do they still need pc for food? the stage 5 invid can eat both regular food and PC apparently.

Aren't stage 5 Invid available as PCs?

'stage 5' are the human form types. what the new RPG edition calls Royal Princes/Princesses and Simulagents.

i'm speaking about the lower classes. the scouts, Fighter Scouts, troopers, shock troopers, Enforcers, and soldiers.

i don't use the "stage" designation because that is an element that doesn't exist in the show or 2nd edition.. all invid look like this before they are put into their mecha, and they are effectively merged with their mecha.. a sort of blend between a cyborg and those bio-suits worn by the aliens in Independance Day.
only the human form royalty and simulagents look different

@glitterboy2098
I'm not sure if the Stage system is still in use or not, after all we only see one mecha getting a pilot so each general mecha type may be different. The Regis does praise an Invid pilot as a shape-changer before getting the next incarnation of mecha ("Annie's Wedding")

Still the old Stage Invid writeups could provide a good starting point to work out attributes for rogue Invid in 2E until something more formal comes along. One can compare the 1E S5 to 2E Royal/Sim. Agent stats, along with the Brain to work something out.

sirkermittsg wrote:SC hoses me on one thing. In 1E it calls the invid that can talk Enforcers. in SC it calls then invid Soldiers. either way they are invid that can speak and that have bipedal exosuits.

I think it has to do with keeping names distinct as possible for Invid types. The 1E Pincer Cmd Unit was called the "Enforcer" in the show, and the "Invid Soliders" (2E) are called "Urban Enforcers" in the show. To avoid confusion with long names being shortened... Though I think this is on HG's end not Palladium as those are the names used in the Infopedia as well.

glitterboy2098 wrote:i don't use the "stage" designation because that is an element that doesn't exist in the show or 2nd edition.. all invid look like this before they are put into their mecha, and they are effectively merged with their mecha.. a sort of blend between a cyborg and those bio-suits worn by the aliens in Independance Day.
only the human form royalty and simulagents look different

Actually second edition DOES elude to stages much like first edition did.... but in a round about way:
the SC books explains that there are Castes.... and then in reference to the Recognize Ailen Technology it provides a table where in the higher the caste level, the higher the RAT percentage. (page 14 of the SC in the manga edition).

Recognizing Ailen Technology comes from intelligence and experience.

sirkermittsg wrote:well don't the lower classed invid have a continuing need for protoculture to feed on?

...snip

IFoL not PC.

This goes back to the Invid origin concept.

sirkermittsg wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:i don't use the "stage" designation because that is an element that doesn't exist in the show or 2nd edition.. all invid look like this before they are put into their mecha, and they are effectively merged with their mecha.. a sort of blend between a cyborg and those bio-suits worn by the aliens in Independance Day.
only the human form royalty and simulagents look different

Actually second edition DOES elude to stages much like first edition did.... but in a round about way:
the SC books explains that there are Castes.... and then in reference to the Recognize Ailen Technology it provides a table where in the higher the caste level, the higher the RAT percentage. (page 14 of the SC in the manga edition).

Recognizing Alien Technology comes from intelligence and experience.

the difference, IMO, in the 2nd ed vs the 1st is that in 1st ed the invid went through physical changes in phenotype, going from crab-slugs to increasingly more humanoid at each 'stage', while in 2nd ed it seems to be mental, just maturing the mind.

since the old RPG's 'stage 4' was what we see put inside a trooper mecha (what the old RPG gave the 'stage 2' slug's), the new RPG's take seems to be closer to the show's depiction. if there are physical changes, they are more like childhood.. the phenotype doesn't change, but the invid may grow larger and more mature over time, similar to how a human goes from smaller adolescent to full grown adult. instead of the extended moth/butterfly feel of the old RPG's approach.

glitterboy2098 wrote:since the old RPG's 'stage 4' was what we see put inside a trooper mecha (what the old RPG gave the 'stage 2' slug's), the new RPG's take seems to be closer to the show's depiction. if there are physical changes, they are more like childhood.. the phenotype doesn't change, but the invid may grow larger and more mature over time, similar to how a human goes from smaller adolescent to full grown adult. instead of the extended moth/butterfly feel of the old RPG's approach.

so basically the invid "people" change mecha as they age and grow more experienced.
kind of like a human that gets a bicycle...
then perhaps a moped....
then a car....
then perhaps a pickup truck...
then for a select few an airplane....
and for fewer still a fighter plane....

that has some logic to it.

presumably something similar to a genesis pit, controlled by a hive brain, could manufacture mecha directly from raw materials.
invid mecha seem to be stored in cocoons prior to an invid being placed inside them
either that cocoon is part of the process that makes new mecha, or is a protective shell added afterwards to keep the mecha from being damaged when it is moved to a hive.
the scene inside the ASC Base Hive could go either way.

i would suspect the Regis only personally transmuted 'special' invid. ones that were either born to the royal strain, or which she saw having great potential.

the fact we have evidence of invid with more 'personality' than the normal drones (corg and sera, even before going human form) is one reason i think the idea of lower caste invid with more individuality could actually work.