W.P. Paired Weapons

[sirkermittsg]

ok my character has W.P. Paired Weapons from HTH: Commando. I am aware that it in general refers to ancient weapons. So in a mecha would it would apply to the shield on my beta. I am aware that paired weapons does not apply to guns unless you have the paired pistol skill from Rifts....which is not available in Robotech.

What I want to know about is using paired weapons to fire missles and parry with the shield at the same time. this would allow me to simultaneous strike while still defending myself....

[glitterboy2098]

no.. but if you have a pair of mecha sized melee weapons like swords or clubs you could use two at once.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I think Silv....the Game's GM would have to make a call if he would allow that.
But GB has stated the "canon" answer.

[silvermoon383]

I had actually been looking at the Dual Weapon WP recently, and it clearly states that it doesn't work with guns, melee weapons only. As for the Beta's shields, those are just part of the forearms, and allow you to use a parry roll to block shots and missiles, attacks that can normally only be dodged.

[ArmySGT.]

Right.......... but, paired weapons is your PCs two hands...... Not the mechas two hands since your operating that.

[ShadowLogan]

ok my character has W.P. Paired Weapons from HTH: Commando. I am aware that it in general refers to ancient weapons. So in a mecha would it would apply to the shield on my beta. I am aware that paired weapons does not apply to guns unless you have the paired pistol skill from Rifts....which is not available in Robotech.

What I want to know about is using paired weapons to fire missles and parry with the shield at the same time. this would allow me to simultaneous strike while still defending myself....

1st I'm not sure why skills from Rifts (or other PB settings) in general can not be 'ported over to Robotech to add more variety. Now I can see skills that have no application in RT or specific to a certain setting (ex: Lore Juicer), but certainly the skills that do have applications could be 'ported.

2. The parry w/shield & fire missiles at the same time in my mind would depend more on the location of the shields relative to the missile launchers. You probably don't want the missiles you launch hitting the inside of shield after all. This aspect is more of a GM's call though.

As you would have automatic parry (comes w/all HTH, generally shortened to just parry) which basically boils down to allowing one to parry an attack w/o spending an attack (this is what an automatic parry is), thus allowing you to do an actual attack action all w/n a short span of time using only one attack. This doesn't require WP: Paired of any kind.

You do have the option of doing a simultaneous strike, but neither party involved can do any defensive maneuvers.

[sirkermittsg]

I had actually been looking at the Dual Weapon WP recently, and it clearly states that it doesn't work with guns, melee weapons only. As for the Beta's shields, those are just part of the forearms, and allow you to use a parry roll to block shots and missiles, attacks that can normally only be dodged.

Page 284 of the Shadow Chronicles manga book states:
"W.P. Paired Weapons is designed for melee weapons like knives, swords, clubs, etc., not guns. When shooting two guns at once there is a penalty of -2 to strike with the regular hand, and -6 to strike with the off-hand."

The shield use for the second hand is not a strike it is a parry. I can see it having some penalty, the question is what is that penalty? I point out that parries cost no actions per page 227 of the manga SC. the only reason to transform my beta really is to use the shields.

[Tiree]

I had actually been looking at the Dual Weapon WP recently, and it clearly states that it doesn't work with guns, melee weapons only. As for the Beta's shields, those are just part of the forearms, and allow you to use a parry roll to block shots and missiles, attacks that can normally only be dodged.

Page 284 of the Shadow Chronicles manga book states:
"W.P. Paired Weapons is designed for melee weapons like knives, swords, clubs, etc., not guns. When shooting two guns at once there is a penalty of -2 to strike with the regular hand, and -6 to strike with the off-hand."

The shield use for the second hand is not a strike it is a parry. I can see it having some penalty, the question is what is that penalty? I point out that parries cost no actions per page 227 of the manga SC. the only reason to transform my beta really is to use the shields.

And to have access to more missiles

[green.nova343]

I had actually been looking at the Dual Weapon WP recently, and it clearly states that it doesn't work with guns, melee weapons only. As for the Beta's shields, those are just part of the forearms, and allow you to use a parry roll to block shots and missiles, attacks that can normally only be dodged.

Page 284 of the Shadow Chronicles manga book states:
"W.P. Paired Weapons is designed for melee weapons like knives, swords, clubs, etc., not guns. When shooting two guns at once there is a penalty of -2 to strike with the regular hand, and -6 to strike with the off-hand."

The shield use for the second hand is not a strike it is a parry. I can see it having some penalty, the question is what is that penalty? I point out that parries cost no actions per page 227 of the manga SC. the only reason to transform my beta really is to use the shields.

Since the use of the shield is not an attack, it already falls under the normal rules (i.e. parries use no melee attacks). The only benefit, in fact, that you're gaining is that you can use the Beta's "shield" to take the damage from the attack.

What you may be thinking of is the "combination strike/parry" or "combination parry/strike" combat move, where you simultaneously are parrying & striking. However, a) that's a combat move from N&SS (which would really need some tweaking to better fit into the more recent combat rules for HU2/RUE/BTS2/Shadow Chronicles settings), and b) it's a combat move meant for melee combat (i.e. you're attacking with a punch/kick/melee weapon, not firing missiles at a ranged target). So, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

[rem1093]

Got a question that was brought up in one of our games. Since the perry is more or less based on shield use, witch is one handed. And most mecha that have them have two of them, one on each arm. Would you double the bonus to perry if you use both shields (like a boxer with his arms up), or even perry two attacks at the same time.
As for Paired hand guns, we allow it. You would think that they skill would be used with the forearm weapons to attack multiple targets, (think the end of Iron Man 2),

[ShadowLogan]

Got a question that was brought up in one of our games. Since the perry is more or less based on shield use, witch is one handed. And most mecha that have them have two of them, one on each arm. Would you double the bonus to perry if you use both shields (like a boxer with his arms up), or even perry two attacks at the same time.
As for Paired hand guns, we allow it. You would think that they skill would be used with the forearm weapons to attack multiple targets, (think the end of Iron Man 2),

Parry is not based on shield use as there are other options that allow one to parry an attack (HTH, or an object not just shield, but could be done with a sword or knife for example).

No I would not double the parry bonus for using multiple limbs/shields to parry any given attack. This is based on missile defense and sacrificing one's arms, they don't get any extra bonus then, so I don't see why it would apply at other times.

For mecha built in weapons, I have no problem with firing twin-linked stations, regardless of their individual orientation. Hand-held, I'd even allow, but you are going to take penalties (nothing really precludes one from firing twin-weapons really, but you will be at penalties).

[rem1093]

Got a question that was brought up in one of our games. Since the perry is more or less based on shield use, witch is one handed. And most mecha that have them have two of them, one on each arm. Would you double the bonus to perry if you use both shields (like a boxer with his arms up), or even perry two attacks at the same time.
As for Paired hand guns, we allow it. You would think that they skill would be used with the forearm weapons to attack multiple targets, (think the end of Iron Man 2),

Parry is not based on shield use as there are other options that allow one to parry an attack (HTH, or an object not just shield, but could be done with a sword or knife for example).

No I would not double the parry bonus for using multiple limbs/shields to parry any given attack. This is based on missile defense and sacrificing one's arms, they don't get any extra bonus then, so I don't see why it would apply at other times.

For mecha built in weapons, I have no problem with firing twin-linked stations, regardless of their individual orientation. Hand-held, I'd even allow, but you are going to take penalties (nothing really precludes one from firing twin-weapons really, but you will be at penalties).

I agree with you about linking weapon stations. But that was not what I was talking about, Let me clarify. I was talking about shooting two or more targets at the same time. For example, if you were in a Queadluun-Rau and you drop in behind two targets, you can't fire at both of them at the same time with your forearm guns, but with a parred weapons skill you would be able to attack both of them without any penalty. The same would be true with any mecha that has arm guns, such as the Tomahawk, Defender, Beta, ext, Also a Cyclone with two Ep-40's, witch are technically pistols, can't link them together and would have the penalty for shooting both at the same target.

[ShadowLogan]

I think you can fire at two targets with the two forearm guns, but you take penalties. If you read the WP: Paired skill description it says it doesn't apply to firearms, but does mention that you take penalties if you try it (-2/-6). The skill description also says that it does not apply to guns, nor mentions a firearm version, but it does say that you can do it with previous mentioned penalties (since the skill does not apply and no skill exists, you can do it w/o specific skill).

When it comes to firing linked forearm weapons I would allow it for full mechanical limbs (ex, nt-bs, Des, VFs, VHT, Silverback, etc) the mecha could be said to have automation routines to handle the task (essentially it has WP: Paired-guns). For any type that has the operator limbs as part of the mecha's actual limb (ex, Cyclone), it would come down to pilot skills.

You could create a WP: Paired-Guns skill for selection if you want to get rid of the penalties, or expand the existing skill's reach to include firearms (Rifts WB14: New West has the skill essentially for a few OCCs class abilities, so it is possible to learn).