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I was at my local game store today working on setting things up for my recent appointment as a Megaversal Ambassador. Well I got into a conversation with one of the few other people that runs palladium games in my area. Personally I don't care for his style of running games as he has a habbit of having your characters do what he wants them to do not what your saying your character is doing. (example: In 1 game of his I was in my character was teleported on to a starship from a planet via a rift accident. The intruder alarms went off and before my character knew what was going on he was surrounded by security guards. I said my character raises his hands without any weapons and says "Hi, sorry to just pop in but I seem to be the victim of random rift activity." My character was familiar with Phase World and the 3 galaxies and recognized the head of the security team was a wolfen qutoria (spelling? don't have my book handy). This GM instead has my character haul off a punch the wolfen right in the nose inflicting 40 MD and killing him. To me this is a BAD game master.)

Well anyway he stops in the store today and we get into a conversation about how the new experience system presented in the RUE works. He said that with the exception of the skill awards and the minor, major or great menace awards the rest of the XP awards are only given once per game session. example: you game for 5 hours and you have a character where the player has 10 clever but futile ideas durring that time. Me I would award 10 clever but futile awards but this other GM says that only 1 gets applied.

So I am curious who is right me or him?

Michael Barakofsky wrote:I was at my local game store today working on setting things up for my recent appointment as a Megaversal Ambassador. Well I got into a conversation with one of the few other people that runs palladium games in my area. Personally I don't care for his style of running games as he has a habbit of having your characters do what he wants them to do not what your saying your character is doing. (example: In 1 game of his I was in my character was teleported on to a starship from a planet via a rift accident. The intruder alarms went off and before my character knew what was going on he was surrounded by security guards. I said my character raises his hands without any weapons and says "Hi, sorry to just pop in but I seem to be the victim of random rift activity." My character was familiar with Phase World and the 3 galaxies and recognized the head of the security team was a wolfen qutoria (spelling? don't have my book handy). This GM instead has my character haul off a punch the wolfen right in the nose inflicting 40 MD and killing him. To me this is a BAD game master.)

That sounds messed up.
Why was he controlling YOUR character...?

Well anyway he stops in the store today and we get into a conversation about how the new experience system presented in the RUE works. He said that with the exception of the skill awards and the minor, major or great menace awards the rest of the XP awards are only given once per game session. example: you game for 5 hours and you have a character where the player has 10 clever but futile ideas during that time. Me I would award 10 clever but futile awards but this other GM says that only 1 gets applied.

So I am curious who is right me or him?

Long story short, you're right. He's wrong.

Killer Cyborg wrote:That sounds messed up.
Why was he controlling YOUR character...?

Well I have been in something like 50 games of his (I was homeless at the time and he gave me a place to crash) and thats how he runs his games, not just towards my character but everybody (there were 5 of us that played in his games) involved in his games. I am not sure but I think he is a "Storyteller" style GM.

Michael Barakofsky wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:That sounds messed up.
Why was he controlling YOUR character...?

Well I have been in something like 50 games of his (I was homeless at the time and he gave me a place to crash) and thats how he runs his games, not just towards my character but everybody (there were 5 of us that played in his games) involved in his games. I am not sure but I think he is a "Storyteller" style GM.

That's not storyteller that's just mental masturbation.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Michael Barakofsky wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:That sounds messed up.
Why was he controlling YOUR character...?

Well I have been in something like 50 games of his (I was homeless at the time and he gave me a place to crash) and thats how he runs his games, not just towards my character but everybody (there were 5 of us that played in his games) involved in his games. I am not sure but I think he is a "Storyteller" style GM.

That's not storyteller that's just mental masturbation.

Ok, , like I said I wasn't sure.

Michael Barakofsky wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Michael Barakofsky wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:That sounds messed up.
Why was he controlling YOUR character...?

Well I have been in something like 50 games of his (I was homeless at the time and he gave me a place to crash) and thats how he runs his games, not just towards my character but everybody (there were 5 of us that played in his games) involved in his games. I am not sure but I think he is a "Storyteller" style GM.

That's not storyteller that's just mental masturbation.

Ok, , like I said I wasn't sure.

Story telling is more free form (little to no dice town) where everyone involved contributes to how the story developed.
What you describe sounds more like the players are there to witness the GMs grand story and not participate.

Damian Magecraft wrote:What you describe sounds more like the players are there to witness the GMs grand story and not participate.

BINGO! and Thank you, thats exactly how he runs his games, I just couldn't think how to relate it in words from how it felt to experience it.

In regards to this other GM, he off handed mentioned an interest in running Rifts games at the store where I now work/plan on running games as a Megaversal Ambassador. Sadly (maybe I dunno) I am a very polite person and I am not sure how to handle this situation. I gave an example of his running style in my opening statement above. Should I allow him to run games there (I already know that since I am a Megaversal Ambassador he is going to try to pawn off his stuff as "Official" rules and what not) or as an employee of the store and Megaversal Ambassador should I inform him that while he is welcome to play he is not welcome to run any games? Or would that be bad form for a Megaversal Ambassador?

I just don't want his style of running to drive away potential new gamers.

Michael Barakofsky wrote:In regards to this other GM, he off handed mentioned an interest in running Rifts games at the store where I now work/plan on running games as a Megaversal Ambassador. Sadly (maybe I dunno) I am a very polite person and I am not sure how to handle this situation. I gave an example of his running style in my opening statement above. Should I allow him to run games there (I already know that since I am a Megaversal Ambassador he is going to try to pawn off his stuff as "Official" rules and what not) or as an employee of the store and Megaversal Ambassador should I inform him that while he is welcome to play he is not welcome to run any games? Or would that be bad form for a Megaversal Ambassador?

I just don't want his style of running to drive away potential new gamers.

There are times I, as a GM, have had to over-rule players acting in very unrealistic ways and force a character reaction. They rarely go down well even then, when the player is dead wrong (we're talking nonsense decisions here, of the "i'm not even attempting to RP anymore" style). But this GM, if what you're saying is the whole truth, is the kind of GM to avoid. And certainly, avoid letting him run any game. Period.

This being said, was there any context in this? At all? Like a horror factor, or a phobia on a sheet? I'm not doubting you, it's just honestly that hard to believe a GM failed at the easiest rule of GMing - let the players run their own characters.

arthurfallz wrote:

Michael Barakofsky wrote:In regards to this other GM, he off handed mentioned an interest in running Rifts games at the store where I now work/plan on running games as a Megaversal Ambassador. Sadly (maybe I dunno) I am a very polite person and I am not sure how to handle this situation. I gave an example of his running style in my opening statement above. Should I allow him to run games there (I already know that since I am a Megaversal Ambassador he is going to try to pawn off his stuff as "Official" rules and what not) or as an employee of the store and Megaversal Ambassador should I inform him that while he is welcome to play he is not welcome to run any games? Or would that be bad form for a Megaversal Ambassador?

I just don't want his style of running to drive away potential new gamers.

There are times I, as a GM, have had to over-rule players acting in very unrealistic ways and force a character reaction. They rarely go down well even then, when the player is dead wrong (we're talking nonsense decisions here, of the "i'm not even attempting to RP anymore" style). But this GM, if what you're saying is the whole truth, is the kind of GM to avoid. And certainly, avoid letting him run any game. Period.

This being said, was there any context in this? At all? Like a horror factor, or a phobia on a sheet? I'm not doubting you, it's just honestly that hard to believe a GM failed at the easiest rule of GMing - let the players run their own characters.

35 years experience tells me the GM in question is completely believable.

You're GM sucks. I've seen some crappy ones, I understand why you played, since you were staying there... but how did he get other people to come over?

And I think Exp is a little sketchy in this game to say the least. But I can tell you this, I gave my group 500 EXP for defeating Cormal the Destroyer of Worlds - Major Menace. And to me, that is a fail. I shed a tear for them. There was other EXP involved, but that was for the kill.

MaxxSterling wrote:You're GM sucks. I've seen some crappy ones, I understand why you played, since you were staying there... but how did he get other people to come over?

And I think Exp is a little sketchy in this game to say the least. But I can tell you this, I gave my group 500 EXP for defeating Cormal the Destroyer of Worlds - Major Menace. And to me, that is a fail. I shed a tear for them. There was other EXP involved, but that was for the kill.

Odd...
I find getting hundreds of thousands to millions for a kill off...
And only 4 points for an entire 8hr session off...
Imo pally has a pretty fair Exp rate.

arthurfallz wrote:There are times I, as a GM, have had to over-rule players acting in very unrealistic ways and force a character reaction. They rarely go down well even then, when the player is dead wrong (we're talking nonsense decisions here, of the "i'm not even attempting to RP anymore" style). But this GM, if what you're saying is the whole truth, is the kind of GM to avoid. And certainly, avoid letting him run any game. Period.

This being said, was there any context in this? At all? Like a horror factor, or a phobia on a sheet? I'm not doubting you, it's just honestly that hard to believe a GM failed at the easiest rule of GMing - let the players run their own characters.

I can understand having to over-rule a player that is taking actions that disrupt the game. In a game I was running a while back I gave 1 character a special form of immortality, temporarily rendering him immune to permanent death (it was for a specific purpose and as soon as he finished that task the immortality was removed), he could get killed but be back at full health in 1D4 minutes. (I based it loosely on Captain Jack Harkness from the Doctor Who TV series.) Well anyway while he was under the effect the player started having the character do all kinds of stupid stuff just to get himself killed. Which was kind of funny the 1st 2 sessions of this adventure but the humor died by session 3 and I was having to use GM power to keep him on course in the game for sessions 4 & 5. So yeah I understand that.

As for your questions, if you were referring to my character having phobias or anything like that the answer is: no. Also my character had been rewarded by a deity with the power of Impervious to Horror Factor (good for all forms of horror & awe except that generated by other deities and old ones) for playing part in a campaign to prevent some sort of ragnarok-like disaster from happening. So it is completely beyond me why this other GM did that to me (he never explained his reasons to me) and practiced that on a routine basis towards all of his players in like 85% to 95% of the times he ran games.

The other thing thats annoying about this other GM is he has a habbit of stating a rule "quoted" from a specific book, in order to get a desired result to happen in game. After the above event he pulled on me I started to check his quotes on rules and found either the rules were being adjusted to suit his needs at the time or were completely fabricated by him. Had he claimed house rules ok no problem but he was proclaiming them as being cannon and when confronted about it he would say something to the effect of "Oh yeah thats right it was in another book where they corrected their mistake." Without saying which book the other book was. Do keep in mind that I did my research and confrontations over rules and such outside of gaming so as to not interfere with an actual game in progress.

I do appologize over this thread that was started as a request for advice turning into a halfa** dump on an unnamed GM rant thread. Thats kind of why I am avoiding puting his name on here so I don't get banned or something.

MaxxSterling wrote:You're GM sucks. I've seen some crappy ones, I understand why you played, since you were staying there... but how did he get other people to come over?

And I think Exp is a little sketchy in this game to say the least. But I can tell you this, I gave my group 500 EXP for defeating Cormal the Destroyer of Worlds - Major Menace. And to me, that is a fail. I shed a tear for them. There was other EXP involved, but that was for the kill.

Well now that I don't live there anymore I wouldn't call him my GM, at least not anymore, thankfully. As for having people come over when he wasn't messing up what you were wanting your character to do he could run some pretty fun games and I think the other players were just playing along simply to come over and visit and have something to do.

As for Cormal when I ran that section of my minion war campaign and my players defeated him, because he was such a challenging opponent to overcome I awarded what I call a "benchmark award" I got the levels of the characters at the time of his defeat and checked the O.C.C. level tables and made Cormal worth 50% of what each character needed to advance to the next level, then I applied the other earned xp to the award for the final award for that session.

It sounds like that GM is a stingy SOB, who treats XP like Gygax treated magic in D&D (where a +1 weapon was an epic find).

As a GM I keep a notepad handy so I can make note on thing like XP or any interesting or special actions that a player may have taken or tried that is worthy of note.

If he runs your charatcer like that then you may as well go home. huh??? is the point of you being there?

Explain the xp to him like this: if you had 10 encounters in the session (not mobs but actual different groups of baddies to fight) would he just award one lot of defeating foe xp for the session? (if he says yes then he's wrong as you should slap him for being a douche).

P.S. dont actually slap him cos I dont condone violence (publicly) but kill his character in your game even though he said to do something different!

He made your character do something that you weren't going to do anyways?

I've heard of being run over by the plot wagon, but that's ridiculous.

I’m in the “dude, that’s messed up” category here.

Saurvon wrote:I used to pass out the original GM sheet a long time ago so all of my players could fill in their basic info. It allowed me to check things without having to ask in game. I kept these and tallied EXP as the game progressed each night. One night I noticed a player had one as well and on occasion he'd write something down on the EXP table. Sometimes he'd do it after rolling some dice. At the end of a game I asked what he was doing. He replied; "Each time I roll a skill I record it and give myself the experience bonus."

Obviously I wasn't ok with this, I explained I tracked his EXP and awarded points for the skills he rolled. I asked to see the sheet and noticed he had 20+ skill rolls recorded that night alone. When my record was 3. His defense was that he was "working on stuff" and didn't want to interrupt me with his rolls. He went on to explain that this was expected in games he'd been in before with another GM that didn't want to be bothered with tracking all of their rolls. Just goes to show, you never know what a player might do, or what House Rule they may bring to your table.

Not a bad player...
Just one used to a different method.
I would ask to see what he was working on for GM review. If I deemed it appropriate to both the characterand the game I would make my usual adjustments (rare is the player idea that Isnt unbalanced for my setting) and then tell the player I will allow it this one time after he makes all the skill checks again (with me witnessing the rolls) but that from now on these things need to be announced to me (in private is ok if he would rather the others not know) before rolls are made.

Saurvon wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Saurvon wrote:I used to pass out the original GM sheet a long time ago so all of my players could fill in their basic info. It allowed me to check things without having to ask in game. I kept these and tallied EXP as the game progressed each night. One night I noticed a player had one as well and on occasion he'd write something down on the EXP table. Sometimes he'd do it after rolling some dice. At the end of a game I asked what he was doing. He replied; "Each time I roll a skill I record it and give myself the experience bonus."

Obviously I wasn't ok with this, I explained I tracked his EXP and awarded points for the skills he rolled. I asked to see the sheet and noticed he had 20+ skill rolls recorded that night alone. When my record was 3. His defense was that he was "working on stuff" and didn't want to interrupt me with his rolls. He went on to explain that this was expected in games he'd been in before with another GM that didn't want to be bothered with tracking all of their rolls. Just goes to show, you never know what a player might do, or what House Rule they may bring to your table.

Not a bad player...
Just one used to a different method.
I would ask to see what he was working on for GM review. If I deemed it appropriate to both the characterand the game I would make my usual adjustments (rare is the player idea that Isnt unbalanced for my setting) and then tell the player I will allow it this one time after he makes all the skill checks again (with me witnessing the rolls) but that from now on these things need to be announced to me (in private is ok if he would rather the others not know) before rolls are made.

Sadly it wasn't that constructive. He was just rolling random Nav rolls and Detect Ambush/Concealment so he could award himself an extra 500+ exp each session. Keep in mind it wasn't during any kind of down time. This was occuring while the group was running from foes, or involved in combat. The rolls would require me to be aware, otherwise what is the point? So he got 5 successful Detect Ambush rolls while they fled down a sewer. Wouldn't he wanted to know what he discovered? Oh well, I thought it was just a funny example. He was a great player, and a good friend. That doesn't distract from the fact that the numbers that end up on a characters sheet should be sacred, untainted by the player.

Yeah I agree with the untainted part. From what you just said about the rolls being for detect ambush/concealment & nav without telling you I take that as an attempt at cheating, and I mean no disrespect to you Saurvon or your player. Thats why I allow only books and character sheets at the table w/ a few pieces of scratch paper for the players things like XP tracking sheets and such are for the GM only AND where skills are concerned I only award XP for the roll if I called for a skill check to begin with.

There was one game I ran lasted about 6 hours and it turned out to be just a roleplay session, there was no combat, the character group pretty much spent the entire time in their base working on new gizmos and stuff. Well this one player was making more ammunition that he had previously designed for a BFG designed by another player. The character in question was a specialist with making explosive projectiles and I figured that after having already made like 5,000 rounds for the other character and then making an additional 50,000 rounds for the U.S. military that he pretty much knew what he was doing and didn't need to roll for those bullets anymore (at least not until he had another large order for a different kind of ammo). So I never called for any skill roles from him. When the game was over I told my group that I was going to have to review my notes over the session to provide proper roleplay awards but I could give out skill awards at that moment and they all said go ahead as they were close to gaining levels and wanted to see if they squeaked it. Since all he worked on was that ammo I had no skill XP to give him and he was mad saying how he made like 50+ rolls to make the replacement ammo and should have earned 1,000+ xp from that. (He knew my rule about skill awards by the way) I reminded him about the rule and he missed the next 2 sessions as he was upset over the event, I honestly thought he was just rolling dice to keep his hands busy (he has a nervous twitch thing and does that a lot). So even though he wasn't cheating it was still a breakdown in communications.

It's your game

You award Xp how you want

But for the most part reward people using novel ideas, even if it is a failed roll, it still a legitimate use of a skill, and people should be granted xp for thinking outside of the box

Half the fun sometimes is the catastrophic roll

A good GM recognizes ingenuity and rewards it

Ignore the other GM,

Anyone who forces you to do something in a game is a horrible gm

You obviously have better ideas and instincts

Trust yourself,

You'll do great

SmilingJack wrote:But for the most part reward people using novel ideas, even if it is a failed roll, it still a legitimate use of a skill, and people should be granted xp for thinking outside of the box

I do, if a player has any cool or unusual ideas I award for either the clever but futile or clever/useful entries. I even give the skill award if the roll fails.
Its just that I only give the skill award if I call for the roll in the 1st place. That is my tried and true method of 1) avoiding the "backflipping to 4th level" thing & 2) giving skill check awards no matter what the characters level is.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

arthurfallz wrote:

Michael Barakofsky wrote:In regards to this other GM, he off handed mentioned an interest in running Rifts games at the store where I now work/plan on running games as a Megaversal Ambassador. Sadly (maybe I dunno) I am a very polite person and I am not sure how to handle this situation. I gave an example of his running style in my opening statement above. Should I allow him to run games there (I already know that since I am a Megaversal Ambassador he is going to try to pawn off his stuff as "Official" rules and what not) or as an employee of the store and Megaversal Ambassador should I inform him that while he is welcome to play he is not welcome to run any games? Or would that be bad form for a Megaversal Ambassador?

I just don't want his style of running to drive away potential new gamers.

There are times I, as a GM, have had to over-rule players acting in very unrealistic ways and force a character reaction. They rarely go down well even then, when the player is dead wrong (we're talking nonsense decisions here, of the "i'm not even attempting to RP anymore" style). But this GM, if what you're saying is the whole truth, is the kind of GM to avoid. And certainly, avoid letting him run any game. Period.

This being said, was there any context in this? At all? Like a horror factor, or a phobia on a sheet? I'm not doubting you, it's just honestly that hard to believe a GM failed at the easiest rule of GMing - let the players run their own characters.

35 years experience tells me the GM in question is completely believable.

Then, in the case it's as it's being said.

Wow. Just wow. Avoid him. Warn people who want to RP with him. "This GM doesn't let you run your own character." "This GM makes rules up out of nowhere to win." Because that's what it sounds like. Some doorknob who thinks the point of the game is for the person who controls the world, the rules and the reactions to cheat to crush the players. Pointless.

If that happened at the table, I would get up and walk away. Hell, I've nearly done it a few times when facing unbelievable foes, or ridiculous plots. If it's not fun, why do it?

You have my sympathy for having to deal with this person.

That person is bad and should feel bad. It is your goal to ensure he never GM's a group of new players, because they will rightly never play again. I'm not going to answer your question, because any point made by him is automatically invalidated and honestly not worth considering in the first place.

I want to thank everyone that has posted on here in regards to the situation I am in with this other GM. You have all helped to bolster my resolve to deny his attempt to run games at the store where I am running them.

I am also happy to report that I have already attracted 2 new gamers to the Nightbane setting. 1 has had a schedule change at his job and currently can not join the games on our gaming day but the other has been available for 5 game sessions so far and is having a blast, our last session he just went through his becoming so I am looking forward to see how he plays his morphus side.

Michael Barakofsky wrote:I want to thank everyone that has posted on here in regards to the situation I am in with this other GM. You have all helped to bolster my resolve to deny his attempt to run games at the store where I am running them.

I am also happy to report that I have already attracted 2 new gamers to the Nightbane setting. 1 has had a schedule change at his job and currently can not join the games on our gaming day but the other has been available for 5 game sessions so far and is having a blast, our last session he just went through his becoming so I am looking forward to see how he plays his morphus side.

If he ran 4 sessions and still hadnt discovered his morphus he is going to be a long time gamer!

good work!