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#1. Distraction and surprise...While the brunt of the forces are focused and attacking at the front gate of said castle or fortified town, or what ever. While the small group of elite soldiers and heavy hitters enter from the back via a mystic portal spell.

#2. Destroy from within...Have a loyal woman to you disguise herself as a victim of your "bunch of brutal, blood thirsty, rapists, and cowards" be there to warn them of your massive army of thousands, and she can even be carrying a baby and claim it and her were the only survives of the army. And they had some of the troops were going to have their sport with her. She basically did what maid Jean did to the king in the movie the court jester and escaped the passions of your men ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hgt2hCDgr4 ... Once inside she can partly cut the strings on the bows, brake the arrows, cut the cords on sedge weapons, glue the swords in the scabbards, assassinate the king and/or the commanders, poison or drug the food and/or drinks, seduce a dumb knight into telling her where the secret exits are by saying that you ordered your men to use fire and exploding arrows on the town she is from and she would feel safe, scare them into surrendering, find out information such as how many troops; how well prepared they are provision wise, kidnap the queen, give false information, etc...all before you and your army arrive. Have her communicate via smoke signals.

#3. Win by not letting them sleep...Attack in waves once every hour but don't press the attack....Do this for 1 week. Than all of a sudden press the attack with the entire army.

#4. Bees sting and animal carcases and skunks stink...place a hive of yellow jacket, wasps, and/or hornets and attach them to ballista bolts and launch them. Use a putrid animal carcases (cows especially) and have a wizard animate them on to a trebuchet and launch...all preferably while standing down wind. You might also get a wizard to summon and control some skunks put them on trebuchets or catapults and launch (skunks are particularly effective against wolfen and bearmen because of their heightened sense of smell). Ogre and troll excrement is also bad in our games.

That should be enough to get this post started.

Magic is your best friend
Magic has many things to help you with your siege issues

Generics that are easyish enough to obtain or multiple things can do them.
Invisibility - This would be a massive problem, you would think that soldiers that can see invis could command a lot more money.
Teleport/Teleport Object - This too would be painful. Teleport a rotted cow carcass into their water supply/wells. Teleport soldiers to the tops of castles, Teleport the gate somewhere else, teleport wall sections somewhere else. Teleport Grand Pianos over the top of their seige weapons etc.
Levitate - Scale Walls the easy way

Imagine a crack troop of soldiers with 5 potions
flight, invis, superhuman strength, fleet feet, see invis.

River of lava - Insert Maniacal Laughter here

Electromagnetism/Magnetism - Insert Normal Laughter here

Carpet of Adhesion - against cavalry - or any squads really will halt the squad or hurt them if moving at speed, a good way to stop reinforcements from getting to the walls.

Dig - Cant dig through walls, can dig ground out from walls/make quick secret tunnels into the place, make sudden trenches for arrow defence.

Slay Ruler and Transfer Loyalty of Populace - Very effective self describing spell.

and many area denial spells, find you dont like the archers on the walls, a cloud of smoke/ash/demons will inconvenience them. Think their walls are annoying, put up your own bigger ones around theirs, rain archer fire down on them, put an impenatrable wall of force in front of their trebuchets for fun rebound effects.

Create food and drink for your troops, quick healing.

Does sticking it with Castlerake count?

Chalice of Dragonwright + aqueduct/wells/river = I win

(see Tombs of Gersidi from 1st ed)

On the flipside, if the defenders are using a lot of magic, send in some Zavor.

Then run.

Get some of the garrison under you thumb before you even march. When the time comes, they assassinate the wizard (if there is one) and then arson, arson, arson. The place is on fire, pretty much everyone will flee right into your spears.

Honestly the hardest parts of this plan are 1. Making sure your spies stay loyal. 2. Making it look like you're ready to settle in for a long siege (as in...keeping a straight face).

Dig under a wall and then burn the supports outfrom underneath.

Most sieges were just a waiting game, waiting for them to run out of food water. The goal in most historical sieges was not the death and decimation of the enemy but of capturing and ransoming the nobility. "Killing the king" makes even rival kings upset as it detracts from the office of king.

If were talking palladium fantasty, air and water elementals can just keep a sollid rain and snow storm going over the castle cuasing interior flooding and mold and misery inside. 1 week of down pours and that place better have had divinchie designing the drainage. The soggy guys will surender and you can ransom the hell out of some nobels.

With teleport lesser one could teleport upto 50lbs of rocks, clay pots filled stuff rubber balls, or glass balls filled with powdered cayenne pepper, 5 miles into the air...they will shatter on impact any one caught in a 50 yard area is hurting, bleeding, if not dead, or blind. Definitely an oh no moment.

A single 1st level summoner could probably bring down a castle with a summoning circle of Elemental Forces. Between the Earthquakes and Tornados, he has a good chance of flatting a castle by himself if left unmolested.

You gotta remember that a castle should have at least 1 one summoner and its not going to be 1st level tnough. If you just mean breaking a stone keep down then yeah but a full defended castle is going to have mages and summoners and wizards. Also lets hope you can go astral or defended via the astral. If under siege sending mind mages out on astral missions to shoot mind bolts at your casters and leaders is basic defense.

Zamion138 wrote:Dig under a wall and then burn the supports outfrom underneath.

One tiny problem with trying that in my kingdom...The wall, Castle, and the city are built on top of solid bedrock. You would have better luck with sneaking in by the sewer, fighting ratlings, and cubes. Besides the fact that if we heard you coming, and we can do it, we would dig a small whole throw burning chicken feathers covered in lamp oil into the tunnel and you would suffer the effect of the smoke if you made it out. So, I wouldn't advise it at least in my kingdom.

That's why subverting the defenders prior to the siege is the best way to go. Then you murder the mages in their sleep and set everythying on fire.

pblackcrow wrote:

Zamion138 wrote:Dig under a wall and then burn the supports outfrom underneath.

One tiny problem with trying that in my kingdom...The wall, Castle, and the city are built on top of solid bedrock. You would have better luck with sneaking in by the sewer, fighting ratlings, and cubes. Besides the fact that if we heard you coming, and we can do it, we would dig a small whole throw burning chicken feathers covered in lamp oil into the tunnel and you would suffer the effect of the smoke if you made it out. So, I wouldn't advise it at least in my kingdom.

So stone to mud does work there. Hehehe.
These are just ideas, not all castles are built on stone, most are over looking important water ways and trade routes or passes you cant prepare for everything.

Zamion138 wrote:So stone to mud does work there. Hehehe.
These are just ideas, not all castles are built on stone, most are over looking important water ways and trade routes or passes you cant prepare for everything.

Yeah buddy it does!

I know. I was just making a comment...Nothing more. And truth be told, my city or town is build on a water way. So, really, getting in isn't a major problem. Just have a flag stating your a merchant or noble, what guild or house you work for or belong to, etc.

Starmage21 wrote:A single 1st level summoner could probably bring down a castle with a summoning circle of Elemental Forces. Between the Earthquakes and Tornados, he has a good chance of flatting a castle by himself if left unmolested.

You must be 4th level to control... so say goodbye to your 1st level summoner and your party.

Are we trying to capture it or destroy it?

--flatline

I try to capture them, others might try to destroy.

zyanitevp wrote:

Starmage21 wrote:A single 1st level summoner could probably bring down a castle with a summoning circle of Elemental Forces. Between the Earthquakes and Tornados, he has a good chance of flatting a castle by himself if left unmolested.

You must be 4th level to control... so say goodbye to your 1st level summoner and your party.

Incorrect. You must be 4th level to control a greater supernatural being. The Elemental Forces summoning circle only "summons" a couple of warlock spell effects. It should probably be a power circle in all honesty.

Starmage21 wrote:

zyanitevp wrote:

Starmage21 wrote:A single 1st level summoner could probably bring down a castle with a summoning circle of Elemental Forces. Between the Earthquakes and Tornados, he has a good chance of flatting a castle by himself if left unmolested.

You must be 4th level to control... so say goodbye to your 1st level summoner and your party.

Incorrect. You must be 4th level to control a greater supernatural being. The Elemental Forces summoning circle only "summons" a couple of warlock spell effects. It should probably be a power circle in all honesty.

Correct- my bad.

Magic can also feed an army. Create bread and milk, bake magic kulich, water to wine, create water to name a few, chicken bone soup, renew (revitalized food), fast food, etc.

The reason why the wave attacks don't work against a castle is because you'd lose most of your forces the first day.
There's a reason why sieges could take years...

Vrykolas2k wrote:There's a reason why sieges could take years...

Or days.

Bribe Faeries Greenwood, Night-Elves and other fae folk work cheap (A gallon of honey, sweet bread, cake, coloured glass beads, marbles, etc.), and are wonderful to spring on an unsuspecting army. They can turn invisible, are hard to hit, fly into places people don't think about being attacked from, fire arrows (suggest dip them in sleep poison), and give solders absolute hell at point blank range. They can sense the location of water, and like to cause trouble. I recently used the Palladium's versions to take over a floating castle/city/island that was under the control of snake men.

pblackcrow wrote:Bribe Faeries Greenwood, Night-Elves and other fae folk work cheap (A gallon of honey, sweet bread, cake, coloured glass beads, marbles, etc.), and are wonderful to spring on an unsuspecting army. They can turn invisible, are hard to hit, fly into places people don't think about being attacked from, fire arrows (suggest dip them in sleep poison), and give solders absolute hell at point blank range. They can sense the location of water, and like to cause trouble. I recently used the Palladium's versions to take over a floating castle/city/island that was under the control of snake men.

Wow, thanks, just gave me a load of ideas....

Faeries are a great way to cause chaos, but you still need something to seal the deal. I suggest, as always, set it on fire.

Okay. When going up against an army of werejag and werepanthers who were being led by a sphinx who had captured my castle and my men while I was away, I did the bribing of the Faeries bit...I got them hyped up on extremely well ground coffee in the chocolate frosting of a 5 layered cake. Instead of a sleeping non-lethal poison on the arrows, I chose to brewed up a small thing of cat nip oil (Basically, I made essential oil) for the archers to soak there arrow tips in. And uh, yeah. You get the idea.

Set it on fire.

Also on the other hand...A few thoughts of defending your castle/town/etc.

Tell your attacking hoard "You're just in time...It's getting close to tax time! And I REALLY need to down size! Only send all of your commanders, knights, pages, and nobles in first to negotiate with the people." Or something else. Once they are in, capture them and hold them for ransom.

If they are using ladders, open a mystic portal on the ground under the ladders and the exit portal in the air over the opponents. Same can be done with projectiles, war wagons, and battering rams. Not all towers can fit into the mystic portal. But, it's a great way to disable a large tower. Also, if the GM will allow the portal to be moved...you've got a lot of advantages.

Also, another sneaky way to defend...Have one mage cast weightlessness and the other cast teleport on the ladders...one right after the other. 5 miles into the air, you're looking at a major oh damn damage when it comes down. The sweet part is when they stick spikes on the tops to keep them from being pushed off.

pblackcrow wrote:#4. Bees sting and animal carcases and skunks stink...place a hive of yellow jacket, wasps, and/or hornets and attach them to ballista bolts and launch them. Use a putrid animal carcases (cows especially) and have a wizard animate them on to a trebuchet and launch...all preferably while standing down wind. You might also get a wizard to summon and control some skunks put them on trebuchets or catapults and launch (skunks are particularly effective against wolfen and bearmen because of their heightened sense of smell). Ogre and troll excrement is also bad in our games.

Medieval beehives were made of dried/baked clay. They were frequently launched from engines as combination fragmentation bombs and bee-delivery services.

But, yeah, a lot of PF sieges are going to come down to magic, since even a couple, relatively low-level Earth Warlocks with the right spells can do a lot of damage... and it gets UGLY if they summon an elemental.

Or you set it all on fire.

I know you guys are getting tired of me saying it, but it's true. Fire.

Erect a strong hold/fort to get a foothold on the other guys land before he has a chance to notices or react.

Either side can use low level wizards and earth warlocks manning trebuchets. Increase weight and weightlessness...Makes for a "rapid fire" trebuchet. Add a diabolist to the mix have him do confusion. fear, blind, sleep, or whatever, and area of effect, and your job gets much easier.

Also, things can get really interesting when a greater earth elemental is called on.

A circle of elemental forces can also be used bu either side.

I'd simply throw a wedding.

Fire ruins all of the good stuff inside.

here's a fun trick, it requires a level 5 diabolist and a level 7 animator (rifter 26). the diabolist puts runes on a plate, 1 fire immunity, 1 trigger (on fire), and a bunch of aoe fire damage runes. then, the animator gives them all the ability to fly, and gives one of them firebolt. one firebolts another causing a chain reaction, lighting the entire place on fire in a matter of seconds. works well for dragons too.

there. fire. you happy now?

mirithol wrote:I'd simply throw a wedding.

Fire ruins all of the good stuff inside.

Fire ruins nothing. It purges heretics.

BIBBI wrote:here's a fun trick, it requires a level 5 diabolist and a level 7 animator (rifter 26). the diabolist puts runes on a plate, 1 fire immunity, 1 trigger (on fire), and a bunch of aoe fire damage runes. then, the animator gives them all the ability to fly, and gives one of them firebolt. one firebolts another causing a chain reaction, lighting the entire place on fire in a matter of seconds. works well for dragons too.

there. fire. you happy now?

You said fire, so, yes!

BIBBI wrote:here's a fun trick, it requires a level 5 diabolist and a level 7 animator (rifter 26). the diabolist puts runes on a plate, 1 fire immunity, 1 trigger (on fire), and a bunch of aoe fire damage runes. then, the animator gives them all the ability to fly, and gives one of them firebolt. one firebolts another causing a chain reaction, lighting the entire place on fire in a matter of seconds. works well for dragons too.

there. fire. you happy now?

Psst, more dragons to some degree age immune to fire.

Silence! Fire purges all! Especially those blasphemous dragons!

Summon a couple of greater earth elementals and have them turn the walls into mud then hit them with a couple of earthquake spells.

"Well, now, uh, Launcelot, Galahad and I, uh, wait until nightfall, and then leap out of the rabbit, taking the French, by surprise. Not only by surprise, but totally unarmed!"

"Who leaps out ?"

"Uh... Launcelot, Galahad and I.... uh, leap out of the rabbit, uh, and, uh...."
*groan*
"Oh... um, look, look, if we built this large wooden Badger...."

On a more serious note, I think starving them out would be one of the more effective ones since theoretically the defenders could use all the other same tactics against the attackers. Beehives, rotting corpses/plague filled, hell even fire if they don't mind torching some of their own property. The castle mage could summon an earth elemental or even use the spell to turn the ground to mud so the attackers loose their even footing, always damp from sleeping in muck and possibly cause the trebuchets to sink low enough that it hampers their use?

A factor that most people never consider doing anymore...but if you're familiar with the terrain, you have a certain advantage! Even if you're fighting winged things you have an advantage.

Basically, it's not about forces...Heck. in a recent game a group of about 210 faefolk delayed and even sank several ships while we planed for the a massive invasion. We had quite a few extra days to plan and execute quite a lot of terrain tactics.

Then, the other group lands, and are whipped out before they even made it to the main city.

The first port town they came to had been recently evacuated. To me, would translate into booby trapped, not lets park boats in the harbor, and set up a temporary base of operations in the small fort there, and camp there and wait out a storm, which was our teams doing. Never trust a gift horse!

We now have 15 frigates, 7 stone ships (one being a titan).

pblackcrow wrote:A factor that most people never consider doing anymore...but if you're familiar with the terrain, you have a certain advantage! Even if you're fighting winged things you have an advantage.

This is known. Thermopylae, Gallipoli, Normandy Bocage, ect.

Use of terrain is widely covered in the Wolfen War College. Wolfen Imperial Officers always keep in mind OKOKA in regards to terrain. O – Observation and Fields of Fire. C – Cover and Concealment. O - Obstacles. K – Key Terrain. A – Avenues of Approach.

I would close with a warning from Von Clausewitz On War, to

Von Clausewitz wrote:Never to Depend completely on the strengh of the terrain and consequently never to be enticed into passive defense by a strong terrain.

For if the terrain is really so strong that the aggressor cannot possibly expel us, he will turn it, which is always possible, and thus render the strongest terrain useless. We shall be forced into battle under very different circumstances, and in a completely different terrain, and we might as well not have included the first terrain in our plans. But if the terrain is not so strong, and if an attack within its confines is still possible, its advantages can never make up for the disadvantages of passive defense. All obstacles are useful, therefore, only for partial defense, in order that we may put up a relatively strong resistance with few troops and gain time for the offensive, through which we try to win a real victory elsewhere.