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This is a power that appears in Powers Unlimited 1. Is it just me or is this power like way underpowered? It has no AR and very little SDC at beginning levels. I wrote a major version of it for the New Powers thread this morning, but it occurs to me that the minor version could do with a bit of rewriting. What are your opinions on this?

I feel it would be fine if it either A.) Had more S.D.C., or B.) Did not require an attack per melee to maintain. It's obviously modeled off of the Create Force Fields Major Power sub ability, but then it was for whatever reason downgraded. I would even take it as it is if the field could be re-created at full S.D.C. after being depleted, for just the cost of a normal action to re-create it - like the matter expulsion armors. A Natural A.R. might not be bad (12 + 1 every 3 levels? A flat 14?) but since I don't care for A.R. in the first place, I feel like it would still be lacking.

When I went through all the "force" powers I was disappointed at this one too at first. The Low SDC, no AR, & losing an APM hurts it quite a bit But there are at least good things about it as opposed to EX PE or Hardened Skin or Increased Duriblity.

1: It regenerates at 1 SDC per Minute, which is much better than natural healing, even better than the healing factor.

2: Attacks don't actually touch you. So anything that relies on contact, or simply doing a point of damage to take effect doesn't work. Finally, I know we're all tough guys so it doesn't really matter, but it doesn't touch you so it doesn't hurt you!

I would like to make it a little better, probably dropping the crippling lose of an attack per action, but it's not horrible.

I might revise/edit it to give it an AR and lose the action per melee to maintain then. Thanks guys.

Yeah, it's rather weak to have to sustain the power at the cost of 1 action per melee round. None of the other armor powers, APS and ME varieties included, have this requirement (to the best of my knowledge). It's almost a waste of a minor power to have this in effect.

I'm not sure if adding a flat AR to this is the right way to go - maybe use something like Hardened Skin, where you start with I think a 9 and get +1 every 2-3 levels? - but the power definitely needs updating.

I was thinking of doing it with a base AR of 12 and +1 at levels 4, 8 and 12. I did the major version with AR of 14 and +1 at levels 3, 6, 9, 12 and 15.

How is this power any weaker than Macro-Vision or Clock Manipulation?

Basically, some powers only appear to suck.

This power can be used over those other powers without interfering with them. To me, that is like being able to wear two suits of armour.

By itself; yeah, it's kinda poor. But throw in hardened skin, unbreakable bones, and an actual suit of armour and you've created quite the onion. So many layers of protection to make the enemy peeling you want to cry.

I did not say the power sucked, only that it is very underpowered, which most of the people here agree with. I do not judge a power based on what you can do outside the power to avoid using the power, I judge it based on what it does and this one seemed weak.

Dog_O_War wrote:How is this power any weaker than Macro-Vision or Clock Manipulation?

Actually I might argue that it is weaker than Macro-Vision or Clock Manipulation. Those two powers do what they're supposed to do, and don't cost you anything to do it.

This power costs you an APM, and that is an expensive price to pay, it's not hard to find instances where using an attack to dodge is going to be a better defense than having the SDC from the forcefield.

Incriptus wrote:

Dog_O_War wrote:How is this power any weaker than Macro-Vision or Clock Manipulation?

Actually I might argue that it is weaker than Macro-Vision or Clock Manipulation. Those two powers do what they're supposed to do, and don't cost you anything to do it.

This power costs you an APM, and that is an expensive price to pay, it's not hard to find instances where using an attack to dodge is going to be a better defense than having the SDC from the forcefield.

To use either Macro-Vision or Clock Manipulation costs an attack per melee, per use.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:I did not say the power sucked, only that it is very underpowered, which most of the people here agree with. I do not judge a power based on what you can do outside the power to avoid using the power, I judge it based on what it does and this one seemed weak.

Can you use this power over other powers?
Like, can you take on the APS: Metal form and also have this power up?

Can you use APS: Metal and still benefit from powers like hardened skin?

The point I'm making is that some powers work well together and some don't. This power is like rhino-lining for your truck; works great in the bed of your truck, and if you off-road, it's awesome to cover your vehicle in, but it won't help you reduce weight or win races or help show off what a flash paint-job your ride has.

But it does provide extra protection over and above what certain other things won't.

As for it costing one attack per round to maintain; I don't see that as a big deal. You're only going to bring it up when you need it, and it's better to have and not need than need and not have.

Dog_O_War wrote:How is this power any weaker than Macro-Vision or Clock Manipulation?

I cannot comment on Macro-Vision because while I've read the power, I've never seen it in the hands of a player.

Clock Manipulation, on the other hand, is the single most powerful minor power a character can have. Every computer, car, plane, cellphone, etc., runs with some kind of internal timing device. You either overclock or underclock it using this power, and you effectively shut it down. Still not convinced?

Let's take Artificial Intelligence, for example. The power states it doesn't work on ORGANIC beings, but robots aren't organic, are they? No, they are nothing more than computers with sentience. And computers, as has been established, run with an internal timing mechanism that CAN be affected by Clock Manipulation. You can shut down entire armies of mechanical bad guys with this power. One could even make the sane and logical (but probably pointless) argument that you could disrupt cybernetic limbs and other mechanical prosthetic devices.

So please don't say or imply that Clock Manipulation is weak, because it clearly isn't.

[/threadjack]

To the original point, having to use an APM for a power that is supposed to provide armored protection when other minor powers that have nearly the same effect do not makes this power weak. Which would you rather have: Hardened Skin or Personal Force Field? Exactly.

Severus Snape wrote:

Dog_O_War wrote:How is this power any weaker than Macro-Vision or Clock Manipulation?

I cannot comment on Macro-Vision because while I've read the power, I've never seen it in the hands of a player.

Clock Manipulation, on the other hand, is the single most powerful minor power a character can have. Every computer, car, plane, cellphone, etc., runs with some kind of internal timing device. You either overclock or underclock it using this power, and you effectively shut it down. Still not convinced?

Heh, I know all that
But to most people, they see, "aw, +1 to initiative and roll? (or whatever it is) And I'm always on time for appointments? Lame."
Really, it's an excellent villain power (I did a blurb about it a couple years ago in another thread).

Severus Snape wrote:To the original point, having to use an APM for a power that is supposed to provide armored protection when other minor powers that have nearly the same effect do not makes this power weak. Which would you rather have: Hardened Skin or Personal Force Field? Exactly.

Does Hardened Skin help my APS form? Does Hardened Skin sit over top of my other armours? Exactly
Meanwhile, Personal Force Field stacks with all that junk. That was my point.

Regardless, I made the changes and my revised power can be located here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19342&p=2721749#p2721749

Doesn't seem underpowered to me at all. It seems a lot more useful than a lot of other powers.

Compare it to a power like "Increased Durability" or "Healing Factor". The damage capacity might be limited at low levels and low PEs, but the regeneration rate alone (1 per minute is HUGE, only major super abilities are faster) allows for major guerilla abilities.

Also, under Create Force Field, you can create a personal Force Field. IT also costs you an APM. It is capped at 200 sdc/mdc. of course you can recreate it until your sdc/mdc pool is empty.

The minor power Personal Force Field just keeps getting stronger as you go up in level. And if you have Extraordinary PE you could have a very nice forcefield even at low level. And the stacking ability is very cool with armor.

Regardless, it is a moot point now as I already wrote up the revised version and posted it in the New Powers thread. Moving on...

Isn't that just fancruft? Or are your revisions canon? If so I apologize and would like to favourite your thread.

I never said the revision was canon, but that is beside the point. I started this thread to get opinions on whether to do a revision. As I already did the revision, I no longer desire further opinions. If you wish to continue talking about it, that is of course your option.

Dog_O_War wrote:How is this power any weaker than Macro-Vision or Heightened Sense of Time?

Fixed that for you.

Why would the power having no AR be a bad thing? If it had one, that would mean it could be bypassed to strike the user.

The Beast wrote:Why would the power having no AR be a bad thing? If it had one, that would mean it could be bypassed to strike the user.

Not if it was Natural AR. An attack would have to overcome the AR to do any damage at all in that instance. Attacks bypassing Natural AR would then do damage to the force field.

Force fields don't have natural AR though.

Sometimes it's unclear whether it's natural or... artificial AR?

I actually hate the choice of adjectives. Robots have natural AR but robots clearly are not natural. Or (if you take the approach that all human artifice is part of nature) it's just as (if not more) artificial than body armor.

The Beast wrote:Force fields don't have natural AR though.

Actually they do for the power APS: Human Force Field. It is not outside the potential of the power to have a Natural AR and that is how I wrote it when I did the Revised version for New Powers. If you don't agree with that, fine, just use the power the way it's written in the books.

The whole idea of APS Force Field confused me but I guess it's no more absurd than APS Shadow.

Why is either of those any stranger then turning into metal or ice or light or water?


Daniel Stoker

Well water is what we're mostly composed of anyway, and we have examples like elementals of things that can live like that. Ice is also another form of water, and actually in spite of being called APS, Ice is very much like APS Fire where it's more of an aura and CEF-similar anyway.

As for metal, there's still physical substance and stuff, it's more like having metal skin like colossus since you have squishy HP underneath.

Light at least is something that exists. Shadow is simply an absence of light so it's weird conceiving it to have substance.

As for force fields, it's more like because I perceive something like that as just a barrier and not something complex.

Force fields are energy structures, structures that have substance, they are just made of energy rather than something else.