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Do GMs allow players to cast CoA on a very small area such as just under the feet of an opponent. I'm at work w/o the books. Thanks in advance.

wakiza wrote:Do GMs allow players to cast CoA on a very small area such as just under the feet of an opponent. I'm at work w/o the books. Thanks in advance.

the rules say the size can be controlled to any radius under the maximum. so yes.

Yes, I just read it again. The spell was already broken and that makes it even worse.

It's not that broken, it's just a boon for those with ranged attacks against those who lack them.

Although the mechanics confuse me, because I think you should only have as much stickiness as the strength of the floor. It shouldn't really work if you do it on sand because the sand isn't a single platform you're on.

I mean what would happen if you did CoA on a sand dune and then dug underneath the guy and lifted up the sand he was standing on? How is this any different from someone stepping off and lifting the stand with their hip flexor?

Huh, even if you don't have a ranged attack you just come up behind the person as the victim is stuck facing whatever direction he was facing when the spell hit. Assuming your character has no issues with that kind of combat.

I already adjust it depending on where the CoA was cast. If cast on sand that isn't going to immobilize someone too much, but casting it on an MDC floor would. It is strength dependant in my games.

A no save immobilization at fourth level is pretty brutal no matter how you look at it.

Tor wrote:It's not that broken, it's just a boon for those with ranged attacks against those who lack them.

Although the mechanics confuse me, because I think you should only have as much stickiness as the strength of the floor. It shouldn't really work if you do it on sand because the sand isn't a single platform you're on.

I mean what would happen if you did CoA on a sand dune and then dug underneath the guy and lifted up the sand he was standing on? How is this any different from someone stepping off and lifting the stand with their hip flexor?

Actually, it's not confusing at all. The spell description states that it creates a 'super fly-paper' along a wall, floor, etc. Therefore it doesn't matter what it's cast *on*, be it a wooden floor, sandy beach, or a tree. It's a mystically created mat of near-infinite stickiness.

wakiza wrote:even if you don't have a ranged attack you just come up behind the person as the victim is stuck facing whatever direction he was facing when the spell hit.

True, but there are physical attacks you can deliver to the rear.

It should be noted that if someone is in the middle of walking or running when this happens, they may have a leg free, and could keep that airborn to deliver a mule kick to you. People can also do a judo body/flip by pulling an opponent over their shoulder into the ground in front of them.

wyrmraker wrote:Actually, it's not confusing at all. The spell description states that it creates a 'super fly-paper' along a wall, floor, etc. Therefore it doesn't matter what it's cast *on*, be it a wooden floor, sandy beach, or a tree. It's a mystically created mat of near-infinite stickiness.

It's confusing if you think about the physics of it in detail. What something is cast on does matter, because the sticky flypaper carpet is lying on top of whatever surface it's on top of.

If I put flypaper in a sandbox, I could lift it up if I could lift the weight of whatever amount of sand was stuck to its underside.

What prevents this from happening with CoA? What happens if you remove material below the CoA? Does it fall?

I think you are taking the fly paper analogy too literally. I have never thought of it as an actual, semi-rigid structure; more of a mystical field or fluid which arranges itself to keep the surface in question covered and adheres to anything attempting to pass through it. If you were to tunnel under a carpet cast on the ground and came up in the middle, the carpet would rearrange itself to the new ground (ie, to include the tunnel) up to the maximum surface area, or until it reaches the maximum intended dimensions of the mage. Most mages probably wouldn't think of the possibility of underlying surface changing, so their "intended dimensions" may not account for such things.

To think the carpet could rearrange itself seems to be assuming a lot. Also even if the carpet is a solid structure, it's weightless so the weight of the thing would only be the weight of whatever it adheres to it. That's usually more than most can handle if you attached it to a massive stone floor (which might be a block a dozen feet thick) but if you cast CoA on... well, a carpet, let's say, you could just roll up the carpet to get rid of it, no?

Think of it as getting stuck to a spot in space-time, and not a spot covering sand.

If that were the case I could just cast CoA on thin-air, or if I cast it on someone's 100MDC hoverboard and destroyed the board, it wouldn't negate the spell.

Dude...Tor...you're forgetting...

MAGIC

I should replace the host of ancient alien's head with KS's and just put "MAGIC" as the quote.

Magic still has mechanics and CoA creates a lot of grey situations about how it operates.

If we were only casting it on massive indestructible planes this wouldn't be an issue, but it becomes one when we can cast it on surfaces which are actually a bunch of smaller objects that can break apart.

Yeah, but my whole statement was that when things like this come up, you either hand-wave it or you yourself decide the effects based on the situation at hand.

Someone CoA's sand, you dig your foot out and move along, sure if that's how you want to do it. There are times when GMing isn't really about canon rules and the RAW. I mean hell, we've read the books and know the Siembieda mantra of "Whatever works for you as a GM."

Did any One come up with the Anti-CoA,that make people slid out of control.

Problem with CoA is it not is very disabling with effectivily no save. Most other game systems if you break out/save you have reduce movement to get out, but normally you out in one or two actions.

Also allow you do autowin anything I can get in range and use it.

Example CoA and magic net both availible and cheap and you win verus anything that can't teleport away.

Auto-Win
CoA and magic net they can't dodge because the stuck. Magic net doesn't allow you to fight back from the net only work your self out with m.d.c weapons. And if you get close to breaking out I will just cast it again. I can shot you intell you are dead just have to not hit the net. Both these spells are overpowered and when you use them togather they are just game breaking.

Mouser13 wrote:Problem with CoA is it not is very disabling with effectivily no save. Most other game systems if you break out/save you have reduce movement to get out, but normally you out in one or two actions.

Also allow you do autowin anything I can get in range and use it.

Example CoA and magic net both availible and cheap and you win verus anything that can't teleport away.

Auto-Win
CoA and magic net they can't dodge because the stuck. Magic net doesn't allow you to fight back from the net only work your self out with m.d.c weapons. And if you get close to breaking out I will just cast it again. I can shot you intell you are dead just have to not hit the net. Both these spells are overpowered and when you use them togather they are just game breaking.

This.

Also our G.M. has allowed CoA, when cast on a person, to immobilize its target completely, since now the person/target is "stuck" to itself. It's basically become the magical equivalent of Bio-Manipulation: Paralyze.

I thought that was how it worked when it is cast on a single target. I seem to remember it just flies at them and wraps them up like a flypaper carpet.

Such is the power and might of the carpet of adhesion.

I'm not sure a grenade is flat enough to carpet. Some curface is allowed I guess... but a sphere?

Do you mean, if you encase grenade in a CoA? I'm not sure you can do that. Regardless, if a GM allowed it, i think they'd be stretching the use of the spell to contain an explosion. It opens up a much larger can of worms as well.

Alrik Vas wrote:Do you mean, if you encase grenade in a CoA? I'm not sure you can do that. Regardless, if a GM allowed it, i think they'd be stretching the use of the spell to contain an explosion. It opens up a much larger can of worms as well.

A player would have to do some fast talking to convince me that CoA can be used on a grenade. However, if someone talked me into it, I would also rule that all that kinetic energy, having nowhere to go, converted into heat energy. Too close and the air would scald you.

The whole "flypaper" thing isn't literal.
Even if it is, flypaper isn't indestructible.

If it was flypaper could I scrunch it up into a ball?

I would make paper airplanes out of it just to aim it for the visors of people in EBA. Being annoying is fun.