TW Ice Lance: need a concensus....

[RiftJunkie]

Ok, I don't have a GM. I'm the local GM and I would like input on what the final output should be on this:

TW Ice Lance
Spell chain: Frost Blade 15 PPE, Create Wood 10 PPE, Power Weapon 35 PPE, Mystic Fulcrum 5 PPE and Ensorcel 400 PPE
10 carats of Garnet, 1 carat each of Amber, Turquoise, Malachite and Star Saphire
Construction Cost: 465 PPE
Activation Cost: 24 PPE
Construction Time: 233 hours at level 5 or 48 hours at level 1
Device Cost: 56,590 credits

It is intended as the "base" or "handle" of a lance. When activated, "create wood" fills out the rest of the traditional style lance. "Frost blade" is the main spell/effect with "power weapon" used to enhance damage. "Mystic fulcrum" was used to offset any possible leverage issues (I do some jousting and a lance is not as unwieldy as some may want to believe.). I also added "ensorcel" to help ensure a "higher end" product like the Battle Fury and Deathbringer Weapons (I don't really see a reason why, but ensorcel is part of thier spell chain and I wanted a high damage out of this weapon.). I'm thinking it would be at least 4D6 MD minimum for the frost blade alone, but I want other perspectives.

Please double-check my math and let me know what you think the end result should be. Also, do you think I should cross-post this to the GM forum as well?
Thanks.

[wyrmraker]

So it would start as a lance handle, and then form it's own shaft and blade, check.
Frost Blade and Power Weapon would provide 5d6 MD. Mystic Fulcrum seems a little overkill for a weapon of normal weight. But I'm not sure what Ensorcel will do for the user, considering that it's a mental domination spell. If they're going for the defensive bonuses, there are other spells that can do okay. Apart from Ensorcel, it looks pretty decent.

To be honest, however, I would've used Lightblade instead of Frost Blade. It's only 5 PPE more and one level higher, and it's base damage is 1d6x10 according to Federation of Magic. But that's just me.

[drewkitty ~..~]

minimum of 6d6 MD for FrostBlade, create wood and power weapon. (besides the speed/weight damage from mount)

Mystic Fulcrum would be ether "+2 strike" or "no penalties for 'no WP'"

[wyrmraker]

minimum of 6d6 MD for FrostBlade, create wood and power weapon. (besides the speed/weight damage from mount)

Mystic Fulcrum would be ether "+2 strike" or "no penalties for 'no WP'"

How are you figuring 6d6 MD for this combination? Power Weapon only adds 25% to the damage of a magic or technological MD weapon.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Frost Blade 4d6 md
Lance damage w/power weapon 2d6 md
(A lance is a SD weapon, therefore it's SD is bumped up to MD. See 1st paragraph of the spell text.)

If you really look at TW stuff you will find that nearly all TW stuff is just magic stuff made from tech based parts. They are, with a few exceptions, not Technological devices.

[RiftJunkie]

Please excuse any errors, this is from my phone.
I added ensorcel to "keep up" with the likes of battle fury and deathbringer. I can't see a reason for it in them either but I added it anyway to try to stay on par with them. If nobody thinks ensorcel should be in there, I'll take it out. Just makes it cheaper anyway. I put mystic fulcrum in because I didn't like the tw lance in Madhaven worked (had to be mounted, difficult to use).
I went with frost blade as my primary because I thought it would look cool and have actual balance as a lance. It also happens to get around that pesky "impervious to energy" thing.
Thanks for the input. Any suggestions to make it more powerful (along the lines of a deathbringer or battle fury)? What is the conversion for speed = damage and if it gets added?

[drewkitty ~..~]

dropped large objects: 3d6 per 100 lb.
Collision damage: 2d4 per 10 mph.

[wyrmraker]

Frost Blade 4d6 md
Lance damage w/power weapon 2d6 md
(A lance is a SD weapon, therefore it's SD is bumped up to MD. See 1st paragraph of the spell text.)

If you really look at TW stuff you will find that nearly all TW stuff is just magic stuff made from tech based parts. They are, with a few exceptions, not Technological devices.

Okay, I see where you're going with this (I think).
But if Lance with Power Weapon is 2d6 MD, and Frostblade is 4d6 MD, they don't stack. If anything, Frost Blade would override the Lance damage, and receive the 25% damage increase from Power Weapon.

[MADMANMIKE]

I emailed your stats to my resident TW expert (who put together a TW creation Spreadsheet) and this was his reply:

Ok, that looks rather fun. The function matches what he describes for the spells, alright. I like the idea of having a weapon handle that activates into a solid physical weapon. Sadly, it is more efficient to use the <base spear>*power weapon + Frostblade order of spells, leading to a base damage of 6d6, before ensorcel is applied. I don't know that adding ensorcel is really the best choice for weapon damage; you might consider enchant weapon instead (though it's a high-level spell, I concede). Ensorcel is usually used to dominate people; in TW creation it usually binds effects/entities to an object. The horseless carriage uses it to bind the aspect of a horse to the coach; some of the weapons use it to stretch out the duration of an otherwise short-termed effect. Instead of using it for damage, he should consider the spell giving the spear a cold aura that does low-level damage and/or slow effects to those around the user. If you do this, you probably want imperv2energy in the spellchain to insulate the user. Alternately, he might ensorcel an ice elemental fragment, turning the spear into a costless activation (as your ice elemental provides the energy to activate it).

A couple of considerations: He might consider using Ice instead of Create Wood, especially for the last usage of ensorcel. Secondly, star sapphire won't be easy to come by; if the setting is in North America, the only place it's mined on the continent is in Montana.

[RiftJunkie]

I emailed your stats to my resident TW expert (who put together a TW creation Spreadsheet) and this was his reply:

Ok, that looks rather fun. The function matches what he describes for the spells, alright. I like the idea of having a weapon handle that activates into a solid physical weapon. Sadly, it is more efficient to use the <base spear>*power weapon + Frostblade order of spells, leading to a base damage of 6d6, before ensorcel is applied. I don't know that adding ensorcel is really the best choice for weapon damage; you might consider enchant weapon instead (though it's a high-level spell, I concede). Ensorcel is usually used to dominate people; in TW creation it usually binds effects/entities to an object. The horseless carriage uses it to bind the aspect of a horse to the coach; some of the weapons use it to stretch out the duration of an otherwise short-termed effect. Instead of using it for damage, he should consider the spell giving the spear a cold aura that does low-level damage and/or slow effects to those around the user. If you do this, you probably want imperv2energy in the spellchain to insulate the user. Alternately, he might ensorcel an ice elemental fragment, turning the spear into a costless activation (as your ice elemental provides the energy to activate it).

A couple of considerations: He might consider using Ice instead of Create Wood, especially for the last usage of ensorcel. Secondly, star sapphire won't be easy to come by; if the setting is in North America, the only place it's mined on the continent is in Montana.

Thanks for a descriptive explanation. Are there any thoughts on the concept or reasoning for Ensorcel being used in battle fury blades or deathbringer blades? Honestly, it never made sense to me. I thought it was being used as a "power booster" for the weapon even though none of the spell's bonuses are applied to the user or any use of the spell's regular description in the weapon. Now I'm interested in the "why" for ensorcel being used in those weapons.

As for binding an ice elemental fragment to the weapon - Wow! I like it. I won't use it though, my original concept/thoughts were that this was created by the White Rose Knight's Techno-Wizards. Being "good guys", I think they would shy away from borderline enslavement in thier devices. Yes, it would make activations free but if ensorcel isn't needed and doesn't add a power boost like I originally thought, I could loose the ensorcel and save 400 PPE making it really cheap to use anyway.

Much appreciated.

[RiftJunkie]

I guess I just thought it would be cool to see a knight (MK or Cyber) charge an APC/tank/robot/T-Rex/etc. and make at least a huge dent in it. All the while having a "cool" toy (pun intended that time, sorry) that a character would want to use more for the traditional heritage of knights and be on par with current opposition.

Thanks for the input from everyone. I'd still like any other thoughts on variations or improvements that could be made to this without turning it into another "Balhan" (A Rune Lance) from Library of Bletherad.