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I'm looking to make a different order of cyberknights. They'd still answer to Lord Coak, but it would essentially be the Euro chapter. So I'm thinking they'll be specialized toward fighting monsters since...well...gargoyles, brodkill etc...yeah. Thinking of calling them Knights of the Schwarzwald and giving them a green heraldic cloak on black trim, probably a golden stag with crossed swords blah blah.

One idea was instead of their insane bonuses vs tech, maybe something like the Samurai/Palladin's Demon Death Blow, but powered off ISP, would be pretty cool.

Anyone have some other suggestions?

I was always kinda puzzled that they got turned into anti tech warriors. I could see a variant that focused on magical combatants and basically just flipped all the abilities to function vs magic instead of vs tech which is a pretty straight forward conversion.

Well doesn't Europe have the knights out of Camelot?

Alrik Vas wrote:I'm looking to make a different order of cyberknights. They'd still answer to Lord Coak, but it would essentially be the Euro chapter. So I'm thinking they'll be specialized toward fighting monsters since...well...gargoyles, brodkill etc...yeah.

Might want to involve General Rasheen. He was a Rahu-Man Cyber-Knight who was a general in the NGR army mentioned in CB1, if I recall.

I imagine with their closer ties to the CS, the NGR may have chosen to give him an honorable discharge, at which point he'd need something else to do. Being with the NGR I think he would have acquired some experience battling Gargoyles.

We don't know that the Cyber-Knights ALWAYS had the living armor or anti-tech. I'm not clear on when those developments occurred. It could be that a long-lived Rahu-Man is from an earlier simpler (RMB) breed of knights who lack the SoT4/RUE enhancements.

As for powers, I'd take each of the "anti-tech" abilities and just swap them for "anti-supernatural" ones. Same bonuses/penalties would apply.

Maybe they can have something similar tot he anti-monster training Lemurians get.

I'm still using RMB and it was implied in there that no one knew what evil the Cyber Knights arose to defeat (the description actually reminds me of the Hunters from WOD). Then I read the anti-technology thing and thought it was kind of lame until I came up with the idea that the RMB Cyber knights are kind of the generic cyber knights and the RUE had abilities emerge specifically to combat the Coalition (by the way doesn't that sort of prove the Coalition is evil). So there should be different variants to combat specific threats.
I was thinking another 'adeptation' to the coalition is one that is completely undetectible as supernatural so they can infiltrate coalition cities or one that creates a blade out of water to fight vampires.


Not really related to previous but I've always thought it would be cool if there were variations of cyber knights with different weapons that maybe increased range instead of damage as they went up in rank. I wanted to write a whole thing about it but will probably never get to it myself.

nilgravity wrote:I'm still using RMB and it was implied in there that no one knew what evil the Cyber Knights arose to defeat (the description actually reminds me of the Hunters from WOD). Then I read the anti-technology thing and thought it was kind of lame until I came up with the idea that the RMB Cyber knights are kind of the generic cyber knights and the RUE had abilities emerge specifically to combat the Coalition (by the way doesn't that sort of prove the Coalition is evil). So there should be different variants to combat specific threats.
I was thinking another 'adeptation' to the coalition is one that is completely undetectible as supernatural so they can infiltrate coalition cities or one that creates a blade out of water to fight vampires.
.

Perhaps Lord Coake goes around setting up branches, and those branches adapt to fight the biggest local threat; so a CyberKnight school established on, say, Wormwood, would adapt to finding the Host and similar bio-magical evil demons.

A Bit of Background on the Knights of the Black Forest
Okay, well the chapter goes back further than the cyberknights themselves. There's this german guy Diedrich Hanler who is a descendant of an old Tutonic order from the old days post holy roman empire. His family was always rich and he's the living descendant in this age. They hold land on the border between the NGR and gargoyle empire near the black forest.His grandfather, Hienrich was the one who took up the good fight as a cyberknight after meeting Lord Coak himself. he was knighted by the leader of the Order personally.

Their terrirotry is the Hanler's old ancestral lands, they have a small fort that's being upgraded into something more akind to a castle or fortress monestary and the Lord keeps vassals to run the place and help protect his those who live under his care.

Regardless, the Knights of the Schwarzwald are a small chapter (about twenty members, plus a bunch of sidekicks) but they're full of so much asswhoopery that they've managed to hold their ground against incursions by all manner of nasties. They also work with the NGR military, mostly collecting bounties on exceptionally nasty criminals (supernatural in nature or not) and from time to time their men act as guides in more dangerous territory.

Looks like a good opportunity to set up something like the templar...I'd say extra-planar and Dimensional tracking (for portals at least), some sort of teleport/Dimensional travel that sort of thing.

-Dimensional detection and reading Using Psionic Sensitive powers, Object Read, Sense ISP/PPE, mask ISP/PPE and Mind block plus some physical, healing or sensitive. maybe a a Super Psionic at levels 3,6, 9 or something.

-The armor should also provide life support of some type..for other dimensions, protections from gases and such.

-In place of a Psi-sword have the knight from a solid blade as well perhaps other weapons that still hit like Psi-sword and is considered silver/wood. So can easily be thrown or left in vampire to effectively leave it staked for those times your in a rush.

nilgravity wrote:I'm still using RMB and it was implied in there that no one knew what evil the Cyber Knights arose to defeat (the description actually reminds me of the Hunters from WOD). Then I read the anti-technology thing and thought it was kind of lame until I came up with the idea that the RMB Cyber knights are kind of the generic cyber knights and the RUE had abilities emerge specifically to combat the Coalition (by the way doesn't that sort of prove the Coalition is evil). So there should be different variants to combat specific threats.
I was thinking another 'adeptation' to the coalition is one that is completely undetectible as supernatural so they can infiltrate coalition cities or one that creates a blade out of water to fight vampires.


Not really related to previous but I've always thought it would be cool if there were variations of cyber knights with different weapons that maybe increased range instead of damage as they went up in rank. I wanted to write a whole thing about it but will probably never get to it myself.

um... No. The Cyberknights didn't just spontaneously develop abilities to fight the CS.

They can be used against the CS as the CS uses alot of tech, but they wern't developed "Specifically to combat the Coalition".

The cyberknights from the .. Cyberknights book were how they were envisioned to start. Hince the 'Cyber' part of their name from the start. The game just had progressed to the point where such things wouldn't blow out a level playing field.

Rimmerdal wrote:Looks like a good opportunity to set up something like the templar...I'd say extra-planar and Dimensional tracking (for portals at least), some sort of teleport/Dimensional travel that sort of thing.

-Dimensional detection and reading Using Psionic Sensitive powers, Object Read, Sense ISP/PPE, mask ISP/PPE and Mind block plus some physical, healing or sensitive. maybe a a Super Psionic at levels 3,6, 9 or something.

-The armor should also provide life support of some type..for other dimensions, protections from gases and such.

-In place of a Psi-sword have the knight from a solid blade as well perhaps other weapons that still hit like Psi-sword and is considered silver/wood. So can easily be thrown or left in vampire to effectively leave it staked for those times your in a rush.

Well, I want to use the Cyberknights as a pretty strict base, but change the tech-specific abilities. Instead of just flip-flopping them for "vs supernatural" i thought that coming up with some new powers (or transplanting existing ones from other classes) would be a good compromise. Your suggestions, particulalry on the psychic powers, do seem to fit what i was going for, though since Cyberknights get psionics anyway i'm not sure about making them take specific powers.

Mostly i'm looking for a variant on their "Zen Combat" that doesn't equate to trading "tech" for "magic" or "supernatural." It's been difficult. All i've got so far is a damage boost at the cost of ISP, but that's a very simple idea. What kind of tricks and abilities do other demon/monster hunting OCC's have that would be good inspiration?

The anti-tech powers are lame, not just because they're anti-tech, but because they're essentially super powers.
Part of the appeal of the Cyber-Knight, to me, was always that they were essentially normal humans who had trained their minds and bodies to the degree that they could hold their own against the big bad supernatural monsters of Rifts Earth.
They developed a handful of psychic powers, they learned a bunch of WPs, and they got cybernetic armor implanted to help their survival chances.
They were a demonstration of what humans could accomplish through discipline and training.
Giving them superhuman abilities and chalking it up to "zen" is just absurd, regardless of what those powers are focused to combat.
It was just bad writing, and it weakened the OCC overall by making it more powerful and less interesting.

Less offensive than their anti-tech powers was the idea that their cyber armor becomes a living part of them.
I still personally find it distasteful, because it takes the only "cyber" element of the CKs and makes it less cyber, but it's not that bad of an idea, and could be worked with.

My solution to the new CKs was to write up my own variant of them... only I never actually wrote it up.
The idea was that instead of getting funky anti-tech powers, they'd build on the more sensible aspects of Cyber-Knights. For example, there's the fact that cyber-knights are the only OCC (or one of the few) to start off with both cybernetics AND psionic powers. There are notes in the rules that cybernetics interfere with psionic powers, but the CKs never show any evidence of that.
Which is one way that the "living armor" concept becomes useful- it can explain why their Cyber-Armor doesn't cause any issue for their psionics.
Once you look at things that way, there's a LOT of room for interesting and logical expansion.

An alternate sect of CKs could follow the "Path of the Machine," methods of training and choices that make them more cybernetic over time, not less.
For example, at first level, their cyber armor could become a living part of them at level 2 instead of level 4.
At level 3, they could integrate with a second cybernetic implant, making it also become a living part of them, allowing this implant to be ignored when determining any cybernetically imposed penalties for psionics.
At level 4, they could integrate with yet another cybernetic implant.
At level 5, they could integrate with yet another cybernetic implant.
At level 6, they could become a Partial Conversion Cyborg, without changing their OCC or losing any ISP. Any and all cybernetics and bionics they get are automatically integrated.
At level 10, they could become a Full Converstion Cyborg, without changing their OCC or losing any ISP or psionic powers.

I never really fleshed out the ideas all the way, but those are the basics.

Just thought I'd chime in with an idea. Instead of using the Cyber-Knights as a base to do this I would start with a Psi-Stalker as base and then incorporate Cyber-Knight flavour into them, give them Psi-Swords like the Cyber-Knights, etc.

I'd do it this way because the Psi-Stalkers have a bunch of skills towards finding and combating supernatural monsters (and Mages but you can ignore that part if you want). You can still keep the fluffy idea of them being a cyber-Knight sub category and reflect it that way by giving them the special non-technology oriented special rules and abilities and give them the Cyber-Knight skill list.

just an idea.

CK your idea intruiges me. Also novatomato, that is something i would go with (as it makes a lot of sense for what i'm trying to accomplish) but the difficulty is that this is for the campaign i'm currently running.

We have a Cyberknight and we already have a Psi-Stalker. I'm trying to avoid giving the cyberknight abilities that overshadow the psi-stalkers in particular.

This is the difficulty. Trying to come up with something unique in a game that has a specialty for everything.

Also, Killer Cyborg, long time no see.

Yeah, I've been busy.

But I've been popping back in to the forums more again lately, to check up on things.

Killer Cyborg wrote:An alternate sect of CKs could follow the "Path of the Machine," methods of training and choices that make them more cybernetic over time, not less.
For example, at first level, their cyber armor could become a living part of them at level 2 instead of level 4.
At level 3, they could integrate with a second cybernetic implant, making it also become a living part of them, allowing this implant to be ignored when determining any cybernetically imposed penalties for psionics.
At level 4, they could integrate with yet another cybernetic implant.
At level 5, they could integrate with yet another cybernetic implant.
At level 6, they could become a Partial Conversion Cyborg, without changing their OCC or losing any ISP. Any and all cybernetics and bionics they get are automatically integrated.
At level 10, they could become a Full Converstion Cyborg, without changing their OCC or losing any ISP or psionic powers.

I never really fleshed out the ideas all the way, but those are the basics.

I like. I like Original Flavor Anti-Techs, but Cyber-CyberKnights are fun too.

Killer Cyborg wrote:The anti-tech powers are lame, not just because they're anti-tech, but because they're essentially super powers.
Part of the appeal of the Cyber-Knight, to me, was always that they were essentially normal humans who had trained their minds and bodies to the degree that they could hold their own against the big bad supernatural monsters of Rifts Earth.
They developed a handful of psychic powers, they learned a bunch of WPs, and they got cybernetic armor implanted to help their survival chances.
They were a demonstration of what humans could accomplish through discipline and training.
Giving them superhuman abilities and chalking it up to "zen" is just absurd, regardless of what those powers are focused to combat.
It was just bad writing, and it weakened the OCC overall by making it more powerful and less interesting.

Less offensive than their anti-tech powers was the idea that their cyber armor becomes a living part of them.
I still personally find it distasteful, because it takes the only "cyber" element of the CKs and makes it less cyber, but it's not that bad of an idea, and could be worked with.

My solution to the new CKs was to write up my own variant of them... only I never actually wrote it up.
The idea was that instead of getting funky anti-tech powers, they'd build on the more sensible aspects of Cyber-Knights. For example, there's the fact that cyber-knights are the only OCC (or one of the few) to start off with both cybernetics AND psionic powers. There are notes in the rules that cybernetics interfere with psionic powers, but the CKs never show any evidence of that.
Which is one way that the "living armor" concept becomes useful- it can explain why their Cyber-Armor doesn't cause any issue for their psionics.
Once you look at things that way, there's a LOT of room for interesting and logical expansion.

An alternate sect of CKs could follow the "Path of the Machine," methods of training and choices that make them more cybernetic over time, not less.
For example, at first level, their cyber armor could become a living part of them at level 2 instead of level 4.
At level 3, they could integrate with a second cybernetic implant, making it also become a living part of them, allowing this implant to be ignored when determining any cybernetically imposed penalties for psionics.
At level 4, they could integrate with yet another cybernetic implant.
At level 5, they could integrate with yet another cybernetic implant.
At level 6, they could become a Partial Conversion Cyborg, without changing their OCC or losing any ISP. Any and all cybernetics and bionics they get are automatically integrated.
At level 10, they could become a Full Converstion Cyborg, without changing their OCC or losing any ISP or psionic powers.

I never really fleshed out the ideas all the way, but those are the basics.

Interesting, rather similar to what I did with my Dread Knights where they focused on the living cyber tech developing weaponry and systems to enhance their bodies and martial training. However, I didn't restrict for level nor did I permit full conversion. Their psionic abilities were a bit different as well focusing more on awareness and defense. I treated them as a separate order that had been excommunicated for inconsolable differences where in they felt that the Cyber-Knight order was being drawn into their war between science and magic. With their anti-tech abilities they would be the ideal super soldiers for countering tech and allowing magic to win the war and no good could come of that victory. Neither, though, would the victory of tech over magic be good either. Well that's the concerns of the Dread Knights.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:The cyberknights from the .. Cyberknights book were how they were envisioned to start. Hince the 'Cyber' part of their name from the start. The game just had progressed to the point where such things wouldn't blow out a level playing field.

Where do you get this idea? I don't recall any hints of this in the RMB Cyberknight description.

--flatline

flatline wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:The cyberknights from the .. Cyberknights book were how they were envisioned to start. Hince the 'Cyber' part of their name from the start. The game just had progressed to the point where such things wouldn't blow out a level playing field.

Where do you get this idea? I don't recall any hints of this in the RMB Cyberknight description.

--flatline

From the cyberknight book itself, is where you get the implication they were 'always' that way. Just that Rifts as a game had powered up in the Decade plus since it's release. The "RMB' had really weak OOC's compared to what we get today. The implication is that the CK's had always been that strong and that the game had caught up to how the class was envisioned.

As for Cyberknights to start with... if we're being honest, they were "Knights of the round+Jedi" shake and serve. I love them. I've played them more than once, but it's not like they were something 100% new or revolutionary. They were the Jedi of Rift's earth. Look at the Psi-swords. Gleaming swords of energy that the Monk like order of "knights' use in battle in a time of laser guns and robots and such. Remind you of anything? http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs38/f/2008/ ... _Laubi.jpg

That's not to say they suck or anything of the sort. They're one of my favorite classes. The 'cyber' aspect of their class was always 'missing' from the first iteration. The "Combat against tech" Added that back in (And sort of steered them a touch more away from 'Jedi by another name'.)

If you like them the 'old' way, that's fine. Play that aspect. if you like them the 'new way' (Which is still, what, 13 years old. lol) then play them that way.

I like the 'new' ones as they're a bit closer to Jedi. I don't mind the new combat and stuff, as it represents it a bit more.

And that's NOT me converting stuff to Star Wars. That's just looking at what's there for what it is.

As a side note.... don't forget your 'Wilks Laser Sword" when you make one.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:The 'cyber' aspect of their class was always 'missing' from the first iteration. The "Combat against tech" Added that back in

Anti-machine powers aren't cyber.
They're anti-cyber.

Alrik Vas wrote:

Rimmerdal wrote:Looks like a good opportunity to set up something like the templar...I'd say extra-planar and Dimensional tracking (for portals at least), some sort of teleport/Dimensional travel that sort of thing.

-Dimensional detection and reading Using Psionic Sensitive powers, Object Read, Sense ISP/PPE, mask ISP/PPE and Mind block plus some physical, healing or sensitive. maybe a a Super Psionic at levels 3,6, 9 or something.

-The armor should also provide life support of some type..for other dimensions, protections from gases and such.

-In place of a Psi-sword have the knight from a solid blade as well perhaps other weapons that still hit like Psi-sword and is considered silver/wood. So can easily be thrown or left in vampire to effectively leave it staked for those times your in a rush.

Well, I want to use the Cyberknights as a pretty strict base, but change the tech-specific abilities. Instead of just flip-flopping them for "vs supernatural" i thought that coming up with some new powers (or transplanting existing ones from other classes) would be a good compromise. Your suggestions, particulalry on the psychic powers, do seem to fit what i was going for, though since Cyberknights get psionics anyway i'm not sure about making them take specific powers.

Mostly i'm looking for a variant on their "Zen Combat" that doesn't equate to trading "tech" for "magic" or "supernatural." It's been difficult. All i've got so far is a damage boost at the cost of ISP, but that's a very simple idea. What kind of tricks and abilities do other demon/monster hunting OCC's have that would be good inspiration?

Not all Cybernetics are mechanical. There are Psionic and magical Cybernetics. Problem is Tech is pretty useless against super naturals for the most part. As according to most GM's a super natural doesn't use it. Now if you still want the basic Anti-tech...just go Psionic or TW style cyber armor.

Because most cyberknights still rely on just there Psi-sword and a wooden stake for most SN's. as KC pointed out...the Tech Zen is pretty much limited to CS and tech users. and most real threats in the NGR are not tech using SN's.

Psi- or TW armor will give the best of both worlds.

Killer Cyborg wrote:Yeah, I've been busy.

But I've been popping back in to the forums more again lately, to check up on things.

Ya I hear that. gotta keep us trouble makers in line.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:The 'cyber' aspect of their class was always 'missing' from the first iteration. The "Combat against tech" Added that back in

Anti-machine powers aren't cyber.
They're anti-cyber.

Yes, but they would indicate what the knights specialize in combating.

I think ther needs to be different paths for Zen-combat like (1) Anti-tech for the CS,(2)Anti-magic for Evil magic user,(3)Anti-Vampires,(4)Anti-Demons.

Each One needs to counter the most powerful abilities of ther Enemies like the Anti-vamp one can resistance to Vamp mind control.

So after some thought, this is the sort of thing I'd like to go with.

-Constant use of Sense Evil with no ISP cost.

-Deathblow attack, 20 ISP and costs 2 melee attacks, adds 6d6 damage to their psi-sword vs Creatures of Magic/Demons/Deevils/Supernatural (the damage is added directly, so doubles on a critical hit)

-No combat penalties for moving and attacking (same as current cyberknight ability)

-Deflect Supernatural/Magic Attacks! (Costs 10 ISP) While using their psi-sword, the knight can deflect/dispel certain magics and special attacks. They can make a parry roll vs dragonbreath, a firebolt or call lighting, even the attacks of elementals (and other similar creatures) can be defended against in this manner etc. The parry is made with WP and other trained combat bouses, but it uses the knight's ME instead of PP. Parrying direct damage uses Automatic Parry as normal. (since it's intended just for my game, i'll probably just make calls about what can be deflected/dispelled as i go)

-Champion's Aura: the knight gives off powerful psionic emissions that uplift his comrades. Allies within 20ft of the knight gain +6 vs HF and are +1 to strike with melee attacks.

-Magical Negation (15 ISP, counts as an action) Like Deflection, the knight can dispell magic effects in place. With an effort of focus the knight can channel his power to break enchantments or other magical maladies he or his allies are under. They spend an action to make a save vs magic using their ME rather than their PE that if successful, breaks whatever effect they are targeting (range is self or 10ft).
*this could be used to negate magical blindness, deafness, domination, even a Carpet of Adhesion, but you can't stop control weather or magical earthquakes etc.

What do you guys think?