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Shark_Force wrote:....


uhhh...

transferred intelligence with the SDF-1 as your body?

(honestly, i can't think of much that's going to be more powerful than super powers, at least at level 1, unless we make some pretty ridiculous assumptions like a ley line walker that knows all spells at level 1. technically possible, but i don't think it counts).

(also, i'm pretty sure cosmo-knight is an RCC. and if not, it should be, because you're not really human - or whatever other race - any more).

Eclipse wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:....


uhhh...

transferred intelligence with the SDF-1 as your body?

(honestly, i can't think of much that's going to be more powerful than super powers, at least at level 1, unless we make some pretty ridiculous assumptions like a ley line walker that knows all spells at level 1. technically possible, but i don't think it counts).

(also, i'm pretty sure cosmo-knight is an RCC. and if not, it should be, because you're not really human - or whatever other race - any more).

Well, probably, since the fallen cosmo-knight is an MDC being still..

Blue_Lion wrote:Cosimic Knight

By the way I do not think you can use multiple sources of genetic mods to start with so 4 and 5 can't be together and taking 5 prevents 3.

Killer Cyborg wrote:I don't consider cosmo knights or robots to be humans anymore.
Similarly, if a human ascends to Godhood, I wouldn't consider them to be human anymore.

Killer Cyborg wrote:I don't consider cosmo knights or robots to be humans anymore.
Similarly, if a human ascends to Godhood, I wouldn't consider them to be human anymore.

Dog_O_War wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:I don't consider cosmo knights or robots to be humans anymore.
Similarly, if a human ascends to Godhood, I wouldn't consider them to be human anymore.

Is Cosmo Knight an OCC or an RCC? I don't remember, but the answer is there in which XCC it is.

kaid wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:I don't consider cosmo knights or robots to be humans anymore.
Similarly, if a human ascends to Godhood, I wouldn't consider them to be human anymore.

Well it is a OOC a human can chose so it seems to meet the criteria. Just like if a human becomes a heavy cyborg shocktrooper. They are now very different from what they were and have incredible powers and durability but was just a squishy human like the rest of us before making that choice.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Enlightened Immortal. You are still human, have extremely powerful innate magical and chi abilities, can create lots of copies of yourself, and even if you die you are garenteed to come back as powerful as you used to be in 20 years.

Shark_Force wrote:i dunno. if you read the description in RUE of what an RCC is supposed to be, the cosmo-knight fits very well. it isn't something you're trained in, it's something that when you're transformed into, you instinctively have those skills. you never really *learned* the skills, they are simply a part of who you are after you became a cosmo-knight, with your previous life having little if any impact on them.

Shark_Force wrote:i dunno. if you read the description in RUE of what an RCC is supposed to be, the cosmo-knight fits very well. it isn't something you're trained in, it's something that when you're transformed into, you instinctively have those skills. you never really *learned* the skills, they are simply a part of who you are after you became a cosmo-knight, with your previous life having little if any impact on them.

sirkermittsg wrote:I would suspect there are very few cosmic knights on earth. I spoke of the most powerful human at level one on earth....

kaid wrote:Think of cosmo knights as paladins distilled to their most powerful/awesome conclusion. They are normal beings human or otherwise who when asked by the cosmic forge if they will stand for truth/justice and all around being awesome they say yes.

Just as priests and paladins and shaman get powers from their gods/higher powers so do the cosmo knights.

Shark_Force wrote:

kaid wrote:Think of cosmo knights as paladins distilled to their most powerful/awesome conclusion. They are normal beings human or otherwise who when asked by the cosmic forge if they will stand for truth/justice and all around being awesome they say yes.

Just as priests and paladins and shaman get powers from their gods/higher powers so do the cosmo knights.

but they're not really just being empowered, they're being transformed. it even goes so far as to indicate that a cosmo-knight can have completely different skills than they had in their former life, if i remember right.

even if they fall, they are changed to be something completely different from what they used to be.

just because the list of skills is not limited with extreme strictness doesn't mean that it isn't an RCC, at least not based on the description in RUE (which explicitly goes out of it's way to state that the descriptions for RCCs were not properly applied in the past).

Shark_Force wrote:and 'by canon' the jungle elf is an RCC, except that it can very clearly also choose from a long list of OCCs. likewise for many other "RCC"s. RUE very clearly states that the term was not applied consistently in the past.

and for all intents and purposes, when you become a cosmo-knight, you are reborn into something else.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Enlightened Immortal. You are still human, have extremely powerful innate magical and chi abilities, can create lots of copies of yourself, and even if you die you are garenteed to come back as powerful as you used to be in 20 years.

Killer Cyborg wrote:I don't consider cosmo knights or robots to be humans anymore.

Tor wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:I don't consider cosmo knights or robots to be humans anymore.

Since CosmoKs are an OCC, if you're going to exclude them then we need some fair means of defining where you draw the line at humanity.

Were you wanting to exclude any OCC which changes a human into MDC?

We know the CS accepts mutants with super-abilities (Psi-Ghosts) so for all we know they could accept Operators with Invulnerability too. =/

Nightmask wrote:I think no one's ask the most important clarifying question: just what do you mean by most powerful? Is it just about physical durability (MDC) and ability to inflict mega-damage or do you mean overall ability to deal with the widest range of threats and situations?

Tor wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Enlightened Immortal. You are still human, have extremely powerful innate magical and chi abilities, can create lots of copies of yourself, and even if you die you are garenteed to come back as powerful as you used to be in 20 years.

The only stage of EI you could be at level 1 is stage 0 (having discorporated, your soul reincarnates).

Further stages don't have clear guidelines, but to even reach stage 1 of refinement that stops death from old age you need to have mastered ALL the Zenjoriki abilities. To reach stage 2 which allows hosting both forms of chi, you need to have learned ALL chi master abilities.

You have to learn those from HtH forms the standard way It's doing that which allows the advancement, surely, and not the advancement that randomly imparts such abilities. It's about the only reasonable guideline we have.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Tor wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:I don't consider cosmo knights or robots to be humans anymore.

Since CosmoKs are an OCC, if you're going to exclude them then we need some fair means of defining where you draw the line at humanity.

Basically anything where you lose your original human body.
Look at it like vampires. No matter what species you are (at least in the original WB1), no matter what your attributes were, when you become a vampire you are rebooted into a new lifeform that has new stats and new powers.
The same, iirc, applies to Cosmo-Knights. Yes, you look the same, but almost everything about you has transformed into something else.
Same with Borgs. Your DNA is human, but your body is not.
Same with Bio-Borgs, for that matter, and they're not an OCC or an RCC, just something that can happen to transform you into something inhuman.

Were you wanting to exclude any OCC which changes a human into MDC?

Nope.

We know the CS accepts mutants with super-abilities (Psi-Ghosts) so for all we know they could accept Operators with Invulnerability too. =/

Well, they USE Psi-Ghosts. That's not necessarily the same thing as accepting them as human. They use Dog Boys too.

Vrykolas2k wrote:But, in the end it isn't like vampires... that's an RCC, since it was a once-living being now transformed into a walking corpse via a form of demonic inhabitation.
'Borgs and Cosmo-Knights are OCCs, as they are still members of their original races.

Tor wrote:We know the CS accepts mutants with super-abilities (Psi-Ghosts) so for all we know they could accept Operators with Invulnerability too. =/

His minor genetic aberrations are enough to prevent him from taking part in mainstream society, and caused him to be persecuted terribly by the Coalition States.

Mack wrote:

Tor wrote:We know the CS accepts mutants with super-abilities (Psi-Ghosts) so for all we know they could accept Operators with Invulnerability too. =/

Check out the NPC "Psythe" in Arzno, page 71.

His minor genetic aberrations are enough to prevent him from taking part in mainstream society, and caused him to be persecuted terribly by the Coalition States.

And all he has is Alert and Quick Responses.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Vrykolas2k wrote:But, in the end it isn't like vampires... that's an RCC, since it was a once-living being now transformed into a walking corpse via a form of demonic inhabitation.
'Borgs and Cosmo-Knights are OCCs, as they are still members of their original races.

That depends on how you define "race."
And if you're going to go strictly by Palladium's OCC/RCC/PCC/whatever system, you're going to find a lot of inconsistencies and problems.

Again, Bio-Borgs are neither OCCs nor RCCs, but it's not too tough to come up with something that'd be pretty hard to call "human," regardless of original DNA.

Blue_Lion wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Vrykolas2k wrote:But, in the end it isn't like vampires... that's an RCC, since it was a once-living being now transformed into a walking corpse via a form of demonic inhabitation.
'Borgs and Cosmo-Knights are OCCs, as they are still members of their original races.

That depends on how you define "race."
And if you're going to go strictly by Palladium's OCC/RCC/PCC/whatever system, you're going to find a lot of inconsistencies and problems.

Again, Bio-Borgs are neither OCCs nor RCCs, but it's not too tough to come up with something that'd be pretty hard to call "human," regardless of original DNA.

Race=what you are born as.
(Those would seam to be what Race for RCC.)

Now in the case of vampires in the revised book it is a demon possessing a human corpse. So the source of the RCC was the demon being defined by what it is born as.

By that logic, then any human that ascends to godhood is still human.


Bio-borgs and Cosmo-knights were born as race X then a outside process changes them. So they were not born as what they are but made, much like a cyborg or juicer. The process may be different, but the results are the similar.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Vrykolas2k wrote:But, in the end it isn't like vampires... that's an RCC, since it was a once-living being now transformed into a walking corpse via a form of demonic inhabitation.
'Borgs and Cosmo-Knights are OCCs, as they are still members of their original races.

That depends on how you define "race."
And if you're going to go strictly by Palladium's OCC/RCC/PCC/whatever system, you're going to find a lot of inconsistencies and problems.

Again, Bio-Borgs are neither OCCs nor RCCs, but it's not too tough to come up with something that'd be pretty hard to call "human," regardless of original DNA.

Race=what you are born as.
(Those would seam to be what Race for RCC.)

Now in the case of vampires in the revised book it is a demon possessing a human corpse. So the source of the RCC was the demon being defined by what it is born as.

By that logic, then any human that ascends to godhood is still human.


Bio-borgs and Cosmo-knights were born as race X then a outside process changes them. So they were not born as what they are but made, much like a cyborg or juicer. The process may be different, but the results are the similar.

Blue_Lion wrote:[Is there a way to ascend to god hood in PB?

But yes he would be a human and a god.

Killer Cyborg wrote:I don't consider cosmo knights or robots to be humans anymore.
Similarly, if a human ascends to Godhood, I wouldn't consider them to be human anymore.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:[Is there a way to ascend to god hood in PB?

Yup.

But yes he would be a human and a god.

Well, in that case, we have a winner.

kaid wrote:1. Most powerful SDC human OCC nothing that involves the physical/chemical/magical transformation into some higher state being. This would be like cyberknights, LLW, and things of that nature. And for this you may need to break it down of powerful while "naked" and powerful when fully geared up. A LLW is a hell of a lot more powerful bare naked than a glitterboy pilot but few would argue that a GB pilot in their armor is overall more powerful 1 on 1.