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Hi All, Are there any rules for mixing bionics and superpowers? I have a super spy in my campaign (w/superpowers) who just lost a limb in an ugly fight (limb was burned to ash, not just severed). I have a good idea how I want to handle it as the GM, but I was wondering if there are any core rules on the subject.

Thanks for your time!

Any superpower which causes you to regrow limbs would reject bionics, other than that there are no rules, though some logic should be used. it's doubtful a super-speed power would work if you got two bionic legs, for example.

The Powers Unlimited Book 2 has, under the revised Supersoldier OCC, the ability to mix superpowers and cybernetics/bionics(unless I'm really reading the entry wrong).
But yes, you should, and I have, though it helps to have a good explanation for how the combination meshes.

taalismn wrote:The Powers Unlimited Book 2 has, under the revised Supersoldier OCC, the ability to mix superpowers and cybernetics/bionics(unless I'm really reading the entry wrong).
But yes, you should, and I have, though it helps to have a good explanation for how the combination meshes.

I was thinking that myself, there are definitely options that are a mix of bionics and super-powers with no stated penalties resulting from it.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Any superpower which causes you to regrow limbs would reject bionics, other than that there are no rules, though some logic should be used. it's doubtful a super-speed power would work if you got two bionic legs, for example.

Unless the bionic limbs where advanced prototypes that gave the speed. a good back story should be used for the idea of super powers and bionics.

Blue_Lion wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Any superpower which causes you to regrow limbs would reject bionics, other than that there are no rules, though some logic should be used. it's doubtful a super-speed power would work if you got two bionic legs, for example.

Unless the bionic limbs where advanced prototypes that gave the speed. a good back story should be used for the idea of super powers and bionics.

Indeed...but that would be supertech bionics.
Frankly, when you start running at near supersonic speeds on bionics, you're better off IMHO just flying nap of the earth with jets, rocket thrusters, or anti-grav repulsors. Less stress and wear on material components(like your bionic feet eroding away and joints superheating), plus easier obstacle avoidance(fly-hop over them).

Blue_Lion wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Any superpower which causes you to regrow limbs would reject bionics, other than that there are no rules, though some logic should be used. it's doubtful a super-speed power would work if you got two bionic legs, for example.

Unless the bionic limbs where advanced prototypes that gave the speed. a good back story should be used for the idea of super powers and bionics.

That's an interesting question in and of itself. Can a super invention character make bionics....

If it is within the rules to have both then it is possible for the bionics to be the source but most likely prototype that can not be recreated. An example of the experiment super power charter.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Any superpower which causes you to regrow limbs would reject bionics, other than that there are no rules, though some logic should be used. it's doubtful a super-speed power would work if you got two bionic legs, for example.

Unless the bionic limbs where advanced prototypes that gave the speed. a good back story should be used for the idea of super powers and bionics.

That's an interesting question in and of itself. Can a super invention character make bionics....

I'd think as long as they had the requisite skills, no problem. Same for the Natural Genius, though the NG might not be able to easily reach/create Superpower levels of sophistication(then again, the NG class seems well-suited for a Tony Stark-style egghead).

Well in the end it is up to gm but I can see a back sorry and charter idea justifying a charter starting with both getting powers from a Implant and it is not without comic book presentence.

You could EMULATE superpowers with sufficiently advanced technology, if you're creative, but these arguably would not the same AS the superpowers.
For instance, a cyborg might adapt something like the plasma harness from Rifts Atlantis 2, and really good thermal resistant armor or plasma control systems to look like somebody with APS: Plasma all lit up, but unless they've got a boatload of (godawful expensive) gonzo technology loaded into them, there would be aspects of APS: Plasma they couldn't copy just by being wreathed in glowing hot plasma.
Hell, I've created a lot of superpower emulation-tech for my own full-con cyborgs.

taalismn wrote:You could EMULATE superpowers with sufficiently advanced technology, if you're creative, but these arguably would not the same AS the superpowers.
For instance, a cyborg might adapt something like the plasma harness from Rifts Atlantis 2, and really good thermal resistant armor or plasma control systems to look like somebody with APS: Plasma all lit up, but unless they've got a boatload of (godawful expensive) gonzo technology loaded into them, there would be aspects of APS: Plasma they couldn't copy just by being wreathed in glowing hot plasma.
Hell, I've created a lot of superpower emulation-tech for my own full-con cyborgs.

That is why I would rule that super powers from bionic implants are super advanced prototypes that can not be recreated.

Blue_Lion wrote:That is why I would rule that super powers from bionic implants are super advanced prototypes that can not be recreated.

Unless you get ahold of the schematics, tool dies, coerce the original creator or do a really thorough job of reverse-engineering. Making the breakthrough that gives your production cyborgs a decisive edge in combat could make for a grand world-changer campaign...especially if you're playing in the Three Galaxies Central Alliance, where pushing the limits in the arena, in the street, or on the battlefield is all part of the culture. And in Rifts Japan, where cyborgs ARE superheroes.

But, as you say, GM's decision.

taalismn wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:That is why I would rule that super powers from bionic implants are super advanced prototypes that can not be recreated.

Unless you get ahold of the schematics, tool dies, coerce the original creator or do a really thorough job of reverse-engineering. Making the breakthrough that gives your production cyborgs a decisive edge in combat could make for a grand world-changer campaign...especially if you're playing in the Three Galaxies Central Alliance, where pushing the limits in the arena, in the street, or on the battlefield is all part of the culture. And in Rifts Japan, where cyborgs ARE superheroes.

But, as you say, GM's decision.

Ah but the story always is the experments can not be mass produced. Just look at any comic experiment they are some unknown fluke can't be copied. Like how all the FF where exposed to the same energy but each one is difrent.

Blue_Lion wrote:[
Ah but the story always is the experments can not be mass produced. Just look at any comic experiment they are some unknown fluke can't be copied. Like how all the FF where exposed to the same energy but each one is difrent.

Ah, but SCIENCE is the pursuit of reproducible results, and if they can be reproduced, they can be repeated, and applied. Then it's BUSINESS.

wakiza wrote:Hi All, Are there any rules for mixing bionics and superpowers? I have a super spy in my campaign (w/superpowers) who just lost a limb in an ugly fight (limb was burned to ash, not just severed). I have a good idea how I want to handle it as the GM, but I was wondering if there are any core rules on the subject.

Thanks for your time!

Here is the actual rule from the Conversion Book:
"Characters with super abilities can not have psionic powers too. Nor can they have major bionics (no partial reconstruction or more), but might consider a few cybernetic implants."

One limb does not constitute partial conversion, so the character should be fine.

there are also the bio-system cybernetics...specifically using your DNA to clone a new arm. since it is your DNA, I would think there to be no effect upon your powers.

sirkermittsg wrote:there are also the bio-system cybernetics...specifically using your DNA to clone a new arm. since it is your DNA, I would think there to be no effect upon your powers.

Just watch the Bio-System-to-Cybernetics ration. Some GMs may rule you get too much and that arm may not be able to use the power while your normal non-Bio-arm might. Personally I'd do like Nek and taalismn and judge by power. But yes you do have a good thought. and one I could accept under the right powers.

I have always allowed for the inclusion of Powers into tech (including Cybernetics/bionics).
By the book though I believe there is a reduction/loss in power(s) if it exceeds a certain point (not that I ever let that stop me in my games (rule zero and all that rot...)

Any sufficiently advanced technology should be indistinguishable from magic or superpowers...given sufficiently imaginative explanatory fluff.

wakiza wrote:rules for mixing bionics and superpowers?

Since the powers are ported in from HU may as well import its penalty list from pg 102 (bionics section) which is:
*1 bionic appendage or 3 small cybernetics nullifies natural shapechanging
*otherwise no penalties for 1-4 bionic systems
*at 5, and for each additional bionic system, lose 1 attack and halve range/damage/effect/duration of all powers. I think that means at 6 you are -2 attacks and 1/4

Tor wrote:

wakiza wrote:rules for mixing bionics and superpowers?

Since the powers are ported in from HU may as well import its penalty list from pg 102 (bionics section) which is:
*1 bionic appendage or 3 small cybernetics nullifies natural shapechanging
*otherwise no penalties for 1-4 bionic systems
*at 5, and for each additional bionic system, lose 1 attack and halve range/damage/effect/duration of all powers. I think that means at 6 you are -2 attacks and 1/4

Could also use rifts or the game world you in too. so you have options should your GM think HU rules don't fit a rifts game. besides your Cable...and what Cable wants...cable gets.

If there are different rules in Rifts for penalties I guess they can be used but off-hand I couldn't recall there being any.

CB1 originally only let S+A guys have powers, so we could look at the default cybernetics guys like City Rats or Cyber-Docs have and list that as the max you can get without penalties.