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Would an artificial or magical metal suffice for a recipe or ritual?

and is there a difference in the quality of the item from each type of metal?

(from GM perspective since I'm guessing there is some obscure or blatant mention that is no doubt countered a a few books later...)

Rituals that require specific components can't accept substitutions. Rituals that are performed on things can have a little more flexibility. But without knowing the specific ritual you're questioning it's not possible to do more than generalize.

Well there can't be an artificial vs natural metal, either an atom is a metal atom of a particular sort or it isn't. They're all natural. There's going to be no difference between for example the iron produced by a star and the iron conjured up by an Earth Warlock, iron is still iron.

Nightmask wrote:Well there can't be an artificial vs natural metal, either an atom is a metal atom of a particular sort or it isn't. They're all natural. There's going to be no difference between for example the iron produced by a star and the iron conjured up by an Earth Warlock, iron is still iron.

I lean that way too, Night. Scary we agree on something.... just curious if any book backs us up or states otherwise...Need to look at a copy of the book of magic....soon as I relocate it.

I would say that artificially created material (apart from lab-created gems, which are useless in techno-wizardry and stone magic by canon) would be pretty much the same as a replacement for natural materials.

As for purely artificial materials, those could very easily acquire entirely new properties when exposed to alchemical formulae.

Rimmerdal wrote:

Nightmask wrote:Well there can't be an artificial vs natural metal, either an atom is a metal atom of a particular sort or it isn't. They're all natural. There's going to be no difference between for example the iron produced by a star and the iron conjured up by an Earth Warlock, iron is still iron.

I lean that way too, Night. Scary we agree on something.... just curious if any book backs us up or states otherwise...Need to look at a copy of the book of magic....soon as I relocate it.

The books themselves don't say anything about it, and given there is no way given to in any fashion determine the difference between magically created/summoned materials like iron and that created by the most common way in the heart of stars one simply has to treat them as completely identical with regards to magic and using them as components for spell-casting or device construction. If there's no way in game to tell the difference (and there isn't) then there is no difference.

wyrmraker wrote:I would say that artificially created material(apart from lab-created gems, which are useless in techno-wizardry and stone magic by canon) would be pretty much the same as a replacement for natural materials.

As for purely artificial materials, those could very easily acquire entirely new properties when exposed to alchemical formulae.

This is only true for two types of Artificial Gems. Diamonds ...and one other (which I can't remember off hand).
The others are okay for use in TW magic items according to canon.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

wyrmraker wrote:I would say that artificially created material(apart from lab-created gems, which are useless in techno-wizardry and stone magic by canon) would be pretty much the same as a replacement for natural materials.

As for purely artificial materials, those could very easily acquire entirely new properties when exposed to alchemical formulae.

This is only true for two types of Artificial Gems. Diamonds ...and one other (which I can't remember off hand).
The others are okay for use in TW magic items according to canon.

Zircon. RUE pg 134

Edit: BoM pg 226 lists the same note about only diamond and zircon for Stone Magic.

The general consensus around here (this topic has come up MANY times) is....depends on what your GMs opinion is One group feels that something has to be natural and there IS a 'mystical something' that separates the natural from the synthetic. The other group feels that 'like is like' and that a diamond is a diamond, and silver is silver doesn't matter if you just minded it or made it in your replicator. Both sides have supporters, and both sides have evidence to support their view.

wyrmraker wrote:I would say that artificially created material (apart from lab-created gems, which are useless in techno-wizardry and stone magic by canon)

I'm wondering where we draw the line of artifice at...

If I breed Oysters and farm their pearls, isn't that kind of an artificial pearl?

If a nightlord uses matter-reshape to make a diamond, does that qualify as artificial?

arouetta wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

wyrmraker wrote:I would say that artificially created material(apart from lab-created gems, which are useless in techno-wizardry and stone magic by canon) would be pretty much the same as a replacement for natural materials.

As for purely artificial materials, those could very easily acquire entirely new properties when exposed to alchemical formulae.

This is only true for two types of Artificial Gems. Diamonds ...and one other (which I can't remember off hand).
The others are okay for use in TW magic items according to canon.

Zircon. RUE pg 134

Edit: BoM pg 226 lists the same note about only diamond and zircon for Stone Magic.

to me, it seems more a cautionary note about how many diamonds (and other gems) that are sold are actually cubic zirconia or colored glass.. fake gems of a very different chemical make up that are far cheaper but look enough like the real thing to fool a casual eye.

it really doesn't address lab made real gemstones at all.. though it is ambiguous enough that it could also apply to those. short of that issue being specifically addressed, we are forced to assume it does apply and synthetic gems made in a lab, while chemically correct, have some undefined aspect that makes them useless for TW use..

Generally, I rule that purer metals lead to better magic... so iron beats steel when enchanting. If your metal is a pure element (copper, titanium, gold, silver, iron), then it will be better suited to absorbing magic than an alloy (steel, electrum, bronze).