Forums of the Megaverse®

Wow. I never realized the absolute power of a Palladium Witch major pact with a Gift of Union. H2H Assassin. SN Strength. MDC. Heck, a witch who follows Death at first level is a better Necromancer than most high level Necromancers. Every friggin Invocation and Necromancy spell ever printed (at 6th level strength). Most Psionic powers at 18th level at half effectiveness (14D6/2 psi-sword is still pretty darn powerful). Sure, cant attach dead body parts to his own, but can amass an army of mummies and zombies over time.

Plus the Witch can summon demons. Just like that. No battle of wills. Just a 40% of summoning as many lesser demons than a seventh level shifter. No limit to how long he or she has them. Just...bam...demons.

And the cost? A lifetime of servitude and a third nipple. Who wouldn't want another nipple anyway? Seriously though, for a person who has lost everything, why not become a witch?

For somebody who survived the fall of Tolkeen and absolutely hates the Coalition, I can see a lot of Witches being created in the 109/110 PA timeframe. The demon they belong to would be absolutely happy with their desire to cause destruction to the Coalition (or any civilization really).

Kagashi wrote:For somebody who survived the fall of Tolkeen and absolutely hates the Coalition, I can see a lot of Witches being created in the 109/110 PA timeframe. The demon they belong to would be absolutely happy with their desire to cause destruction to the Coalition (or any civilization really).

Agreed.
They might not all have the CS as their main object of revenge, though.

One should consider that with Gift of Union your free will is pretty much secondary to the will of the AI. Compared to the other Gifts you lose a lot of your decisionmaking abilities.

With the other ones, while you have to swear obedience, you could always opt to disobey and just lose your powers. With Union, if you disobey, your benefactor can just easily possess you.

Yeah, you know what? Screw being a slave. It's not working out well for that witch of Ahriman in Rifts Mercenaries. It's like buying a car and paying extreme interest rates - the car isn't yours, it's the person who now owns you lock, stock and barrel. And with the gift of union, the car is your body, that's a *lot* more personal. Even people who have lost everything in other senses will think twice before undertaking that sacrifice. It is a powerful combination though.

In communities like the Hamlet of Clavicle (hurry up and finish Dark Woods already PB!), Id think that being a Witch would be a better decision than a Shifter or Necromancer. All three would likely be following Death anyway, as the main reason for the hamlet's existence is to worship Death (at least at the Grim Reaper Cult shrine location). These people would want to have Death share their bodies. Of course, one could always do a minor pact and not be so tied down, but if I were going to follow Death at all, Id think my life was so screwed up, Id be 100% in.

In our game alot of new Harvesters have come out of the ruins of Tolkeen, as well as Witches.

If someone was going to do a minor pact, and you're going to be evil anyway, why on earth would you opt for anything except sacrificing the firstborn? Best deal out there.

Tor wrote:If someone was going to do a minor pact, and you're going to be evil anyway, why on earth would you opt for anything except sacrificing the firstborn? Best deal out there.

Man..................just..........................it's your child?.........................Do I really have to explain?

No, absolutely, no redemption after that.

It's not as if you're necessarily giving away a full-grown kid you've gotten attached to. Someone who hasn't reproduced could make this pact and do it before they get attached or any notable sentience or personal complexity has developed.

The resulting gifts could then be used to take care of any subsequent offspring (sadly you can only make the deal once) and/or any adopted non-biological offspring.

Plus a lot of the time they don't even get killed and the demons just raise them up as bitter demonic priests who hunger for revenge against you for abandoning them. This will make them stronger and better able to survive in the dangerous Megaverse.

Tor wrote:It's not as if you're necessarily giving away a full-grown kid you've gotten attached to. Someone who hasn't reproduced could make this pact and do it before they get attached or any notable sentience or personal complexity has developed.

The resulting gifts could then be used to take care of any subsequent offspring (sadly you can only make the deal once) and/or any adopted non-biological offspring.

Plus a lot of the time they don't even get killed and the demons just raise them up as bitter demonic priests who hunger for revenge against you for abandoning them. This will make them stronger and better able to survive in the dangerous Megaverse.

And, if you don't have a kid, your demonic 'patron' might just go ahead and force the issue at some point, using you as the instrument to make more followers and feedstock. Depending on how nasty your patron is, said children might be at some point aimed at you(perhaps tasked with killing you as a condition of their own rise through the ranks, and as part of your 'retirement package'). No happy families on the dark side.

Tor wrote:If someone was going to do a minor pact, and you're going to be evil anyway, why on earth would you opt for anything except sacrificing the firstborn? Best deal out there.

It depends on the person really - a really promiscuous man could find themselves desperately slaughtering kids left, right and center in an effort to try and figure out who the hell the first person they got knocked up was.

Giant2005 wrote:

Tor wrote:If someone was going to do a minor pact, and you're going to be evil anyway, why on earth would you opt for anything except sacrificing the firstborn? Best deal out there.

It depends on the person really - a really promiscuous man could find themselves desperately slaughtering kids left, right and center in an effort to try and figure out who the hell the first person they got knocked up was.

That deal doesn't mean you kill your first born in the name of whatever demon or AI you swore it to. It means you hand the child over to the creature for it to do what it pleases with it.

honestly, the power your making a pact with is going to set the terms. if they contact you, they'll tell you "do this".. and odds are it would be something that is a huge sacrifice for the person, or which they'd normally never do. that break with their old life, morality, and ethics would be a final test to see if the person is truly willing to be a witch.
if the person is trying to curry favor and hasn't been contacted, they'd have to go through a bunch of different sacrifices and rituals trying to attract the attention of a power.. and then would likely be given an even nastier test once they do get one's attention.

Yeah, like those movies where an undercover cop is forced to kill someone, to prove that they're not one.

It's to make sure you're willing to become a slave as well as burn your bridges.

taalismn wrote:if you don't have a kid, your demonic 'patron' might just go ahead and force the issue at some point, using you as the instrument to make more followers and feedstock.

True, although the contract is singular, so if they go beyond 1 offspring that goes outside the terms of the contract and you can act to counter them if you wish, perhaps barter for further rewards.

taalismn wrote:Depending on how nasty your patron is, said children might be at some point aimed at you(perhaps tasked with killing you as a condition of their own rise through the ranks, and as part of your 'retirement package'). No happy families on the dark side.

Perhaps, but getting killed off by displeased netherworlders is an inherent risk of dealing with demons (or really ANY society) witch or not. It would be a priority to spend the decades they're growing up to prepare for those inevitabilities.

Giant2005 wrote:depends on the person really - a really promiscuous man could find themselves desperately slaughtering kids left, right and center in an effort to try and figure out who the hell the first person they got knocked up was.

I think one of the terms of the pact is that you can't kill the kid. It would be up to your demonic master to decide what is to be done with them, whether they die or are raised. I expect the terms of the contract are non-interference, unless the contract explicitly requires you to do something.

The Beast wrote:That deal doesn't mean you kill your first born in the name of whatever demon or AI you swore it to. It means you hand the child over to the creature for it to do what it pleases with it.

It could mean either, but in the grand scheme of things it's not as if this would make a huge difference. Demons and Deevils are entirely capable of simply kidnapping humans and their offspring and enslaving them. If you refused a pact with them they might just go and steal your kid anyway, at least this way you get something out of it, perhaps a means to foil them from further enslaving fellow humans. So long as you don't violate the terms of your pact (which are the least demanding of all pacts, 1 single requirement) they can't strip your powers, so far as I know. They're held to the letter, even if it's used against them.