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Only SDC armor, vehicles and some other objects have Armor Rating. MDC structures/armor grant complete protection until their MDC is depleted, so don't worry about needing high rolls. Can't vaporize the squishies inside until the nut's been shattered, not just cracked.

Abraxas wrote:Hello

I'm currently reading through the Ultimate Rifts rulebook.
Have not read all. I wonder how combat works. Do you still
need an attack roll that is higher than the Armor Rating?

AR only applies to SDC combat. MDC combat ignores AR. It is possible for an MDC armor to have an AR (Cyber-Armor, helmet less EBA, etc), but the AR would only apply when dealing with SDC attacks (in which case it's more like a Natrual AR than Artificial AR).

ShadowLogan wrote:

Abraxas wrote:Hello

I'm currently reading through the Ultimate Rifts rulebook.
Have not read all. I wonder how combat works. Do you still
need an attack roll that is higher than the Armor Rating?

AR only applies to SDC combat. MDC combat ignores AR. It is possible for an MDC armor to have an AR (Cyber-Armor, helmet less EBA, etc), but the AR would only apply when dealing with SDC attacks (in which case it's more like a Natrual AR than Artificial AR).

According to page 8 of SB1, any attack on a MDC armor that has an AR would result in hitting the one wearing it. This includes MD weapons.

Yup that is one reason cyberknights cyber armor never made any sense to me. The MDC rules say those weapons ignore AR and if it has an AR rating it automatically bypasses it. Really the best way to handle the cyber armor is to just remove the AR on it and just have it as some basic last defense MDC armor which actually would make it useful.

kaid wrote:Yup that is one reason cyberknights cyber armor never made any sense to me. The MDC rules say those weapons ignore AR and if it has an AR rating it automatically bypasses it. Really the best way to handle the cyber armor is to just remove the AR on it and just have it as some basic last defense MDC armor which actually would make it useful.

I thought the cyber armor had a line somewhere that says it works differently than regular AR. Basically if you beat cyber armor's AR you hit SDC/HP which will probably kill you in the case of MD weapons. If you don't beat it then it hits the armor.

I think I read that somewhere but that's how I've played it with every GM I've played with.

Crow Splat wrote:

kaid wrote:Yup that is one reason cyberknights cyber armor never made any sense to me. The MDC rules say those weapons ignore AR and if it has an AR rating it automatically bypasses it. Really the best way to handle the cyber armor is to just remove the AR on it and just have it as some basic last defense MDC armor which actually would make it useful.

I thought the cyber armor had a line somewhere that says it works differently than regular AR. Basically if you beat cyber armor's AR you hit SDC/HP which will probably kill you in the case of MD weapons. If you don't beat it then it hits the armor.

I think I read that somewhere but that's how I've played it with every GM I've played with.

I believe you are correct but there are also multiple places that say MD weapons ignore AR. It is one of the few areas where you bump into this issue but it is a very confusing case at best its a weird exception to the rules at worst its pointless.

Pretty much these days it looks like
The powers that be first thought AR didn't fit rifts
Then they decided that skimpy MDC armor was silly
So now they give SOME MDC armor AR (MAR?)...but each of those armors explicitly lists its AR
So they came down squarely on both sides of the issue....welcome to Palladium

kaid wrote:

Crow Splat wrote:

kaid wrote:Yup that is one reason cyberknights cyber armor never made any sense to me. The MDC rules say those weapons ignore AR and if it has an AR rating it automatically bypasses it. Really the best way to handle the cyber armor is to just remove the AR on it and just have it as some basic last defense MDC armor which actually would make it useful.

I thought the cyber armor had a line somewhere that says it works differently than regular AR. Basically if you beat cyber armor's AR you hit SDC/HP which will probably kill you in the case of MD weapons. If you don't beat it then it hits the armor.

I think I read that somewhere but that's how I've played it with every GM I've played with.

I believe you are correct but there are also multiple places that say MD weapons ignore AR. It is one of the few areas where you bump into this issue but it is a very confusing case at best its a weird exception to the rules at worst its pointless.

The few places you actually see AR given to MDC protection (like the Triax Plain Clothes MDC armor) it's pretty obvious from the text that unsurprisingly they're exceptions where you can have MDC that leaves you needing to worry about AR instead of 'always blocks damage until depleted' like is standard.

kaid wrote:

Crow Splat wrote:

kaid wrote:Yup that is one reason cyberknights cyber armor never made any sense to me. The MDC rules say those weapons ignore AR and if it has an AR rating it automatically bypasses it. Really the best way to handle the cyber armor is to just remove the AR on it and just have it as some basic last defense MDC armor which actually would make it useful.

I thought the cyber armor had a line somewhere that says it works differently than regular AR. Basically if you beat cyber armor's AR you hit SDC/HP which will probably kill you in the case of MD weapons. If you don't beat it then it hits the armor.

I think I read that somewhere but that's how I've played it with every GM I've played with.

I believe you are correct but there are also multiple places that say MD weapons ignore AR. It is one of the few areas where you bump into this issue but it is a very confusing case at best its a weird exception to the rules at worst its pointless.

It says to ignore AR because in most cases AR only applies to SDC armor, and any hit on SDC armor from a MD weapon would punch a hole through it and hit the person inside anyway.

The really ironic thing is for the most part the whole ignoring AR thing other than natural AR was never necessary to begin with. Other than the old natural armor issue even if you failed to beat the AR even the smallest MDC pistol is going to go through through any SDC armor and the person wearing them like a hot knife through butter.

While most folks with some applied common sense will come to that conclusion, I can see some more strict rules-lawyers using the "bypasses all A.R." as a justification for MD weapons always beating cyber-armor. It doesn't mean they're right, but that won't stop them.

It's not that MD weapons bypass AR- it's that MD weapons, when dealing with targets with SDC armor, "ignore" the AR.
The weapons do no, though, ignore the armor itself.

RGMG 31
Ignore the AR if the attacker is using MD weapons as the lethality aspect will blast right through the armor, although the armor takes damage first. There are rare cases where SDC armor that numbers into the hundreds of SDC absorb a low intensity MD blast. In this case every 100 SDC points equal one MD point.

So the effect is actually to err on the side of the defender, acting in all cases as if a strike roll with an MD weapon hits the armor, with no chance to defeat the AR.
Of course, this usually won't matter, as a lot of SDC armor doesn't have enough SDC to stop most incoming MD attacks.

Nightmask wrote:

kaid wrote:

Crow Splat wrote:

kaid wrote:Yup that is one reason cyberknights cyber armor never made any sense to me. The MDC rules say those weapons ignore AR and if it has an AR rating it automatically bypasses it. Really the best way to handle the cyber armor is to just remove the AR on it and just have it as some basic last defense MDC armor which actually would make it useful.

I thought the cyber armor had a line somewhere that says it works differently than regular AR. Basically if you beat cyber armor's AR you hit SDC/HP which will probably kill you in the case of MD weapons. If you don't beat it then it hits the armor.

I think I read that somewhere but that's how I've played it with every GM I've played with.

I believe you are correct but there are also multiple places that say MD weapons ignore AR. It is one of the few areas where you bump into this issue but it is a very confusing case at best its a weird exception to the rules at worst its pointless.

The few places you actually see AR given to MDC protection (like the Triax Plain Clothes MDC armor) it's pretty obvious from the text that unsurprisingly they're exceptions where you can have MDC that leaves you needing to worry about AR instead of 'always blocks damage until depleted' like is standard.

this is to prevent the silliness that is the Altaran, ahem, "armor"

Found it! Sourcebook One p.8. is where its actually printed.

I only use AR if someone is making a called shot on someone wearing open armor (like juicers) or using SDC area effects (SDC grenades against juicers for example. in some instances I may do so for MDC too). Semi related I consider a natural roll of 1-4 an automatic miss on melee combat 1-8 an automatic miss on mid range and 1-12 a miss at long range. Sniping someone unaware is only a miss on 1-4

-EDIT- Double Post -EDIT-

Crow Splat wrote:Found it! Sourcebook One p.8. is where its actually printed.

Yep, never actually had a problem with the few EXCEPTIONS to the MDC/AR rule, being originally only Cyber Armour and then Triax Plain Clothes armour. Never seemed that hard.

Cyber Armour has over the years become a favourite of people I game with, not because I push it, but just because people eventually realize how helpful it is to have armour that 'may' save you, when the alternative is to have nothing. It doesn't come up often, but when it does it's amazing.


Gm-'you take 30 damage'

Player 1/Cyber Knight-'well, I guess I'm dead.' (gently tosses character into middle of table.

All other Players-'...'

Gm-'well...'

Player 1/Cyber Knight-'Wait! I've got Cyber Armour! %^&* YES!'

Gm-'well, it's your turn, what would you like to do?'

Player 1/Cyber Knight-'I attack!'

Completely agree about cyber-armor.

As a bit of an aside, I found it works perfectly with the Cyber Knight concept.

They are ALWAYS ready to fight. You could drop them naked in the woods, without any gear, and they have MDC armour (even if it has an AR) all the time, they are always armed with a weapon that can hurt pretty much anything (even if it's not impressive by MD standards), they have psychic powers to use as backup, an expansive skill set, and they can likely use any weapon they find (even TW ones, and a high PPE base to use on the TW gear so they don't burn up their ISP). It's not that they are supposed to fight everything with their Psi-Swords any more than they are rely mainly on wearing their Cyber Armour for defence, just that they are ALWAYS ready.

Eashamahel wrote: It's not that they are supposed to fight everything with their Psi-Swords any more than they are rely mainly on wearing their Cyber Armour for defence, just that they are ALWAYS ready.

Agreed.