Pertaining to Rifts Dimension Book 10: Hades, Pits of Hell, page 17-18.
This is a pretty neat feature. While Sub-Regents and Regents in Dyval may get the "Regent" powers, they don't get access to deific-level abilities, which tend to be better. Only Deevil Lords get them. Although Dyval's coverage of prototypical abilities available to Lords isn't consistent with D+G and requires a bit of fudging...
Anyway, with the Prince/Princess of Hell getting access to 1 of a list, it mentions 'triple' cost.
This is certainly sucky for them, because in all of D+G, the worst it tends to get is 'double' cost.
Dragons and Gods pages 89 to 90 make it clear that, in terms of body investment, beings who have to pay 'double' cost have to move up 1 level of severity in bodily investments (which are Token, Severe, Consumed and Annihilated). I always thought that people who had to pay 'half' cost should move down 1 level in severity, but that isn't made clear (it wouldn't be a huge deal, as many gods explicitly pay less body investments for certain powers anyway). What happens to 'triple' cost isn't addressed though, since it doesn't occur in D+G.
Of the powers available to the Princ(ess)es, the body investment costs are normally either none (regen) token (manifest/sphere) or severe (minion/portal). What I'm wondering is... do you think triple cost should take standard body investment, 1 extra investment (like those who pay double), or 2 extra steps?
My instinct is to say '2 extra' because it seems right that it should cost more than someone doing it at double cost. This could be seen as undesirable though, since princes would have to use 'annihilated' for minions/portals. This isn't really THAT huge a deal though. It's mentioned that princes cultivate worshippers, and if you have those, they can respawn you in 2-8 years. This could be shortened to 1-6 days if a prince is desired back by 2+ Lords (1 day if all). Not only that, but since Demons respawn anyway if they die outside their dimension, even those Princes without worshippers/Lords who want them back could still pay that cost OUTSIDE of Hades to make minions or portals and eventually come back in 10 to 60 years.
I like the idea of this annihilation limitation because creating minions really SHOULD be a big deal, and not something a prince should casually be able to do. Portals I don't really care about as much (btw do we assume if someone has the power to create portals they also have the power to close them since it's listed under the same heading?) but since it's the same cost... I figure in this case, Princes would only create either within Hades if promised resurrection by a Lord (or Lords) they have faith in, or if they are confident that worshippers will bring them back. They may be freer about doing it ousdie of Hades due to their automatic repawn, but still hesitant since that's a LOT of downtime. It still could be worthwhile if when you respawn you have an army of new minions, or if via Create Portal you have semi-permanent access to a new realm to dominate (or perhaps you used the portal to rescue a huge body of your minions, which could be worth the downtime).
Do some people just go with the '1 step higher' that double-costers pay, or actually make it better than double-costers and only triple the PPE without increasing the body investment cost at all?
Prototypical Deific Powers and Princes or Princesses of Hell
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Prototypical Deific Powers and Princes or Princesses of Hell
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Re: Prototypical Deific Powers and Princes or Princesses of
Triple all costs both the PPE and the body-investment, as it references the powers in the D&G, and since it doesn't provide any different explanation of triple the cost one should base it off the description of double the cost in D&G.
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Re: Prototypical Deific Powers and Princes or Princesses of
So you think it should be 1-step-more or 2-step-more? Double-cost is 1 step higher in cost so am wondering if Triple-cost would be 2 steps.
One thing that's interesting about D+G.... for Ra, who pays half PPE cost for all, it explicitly says that he still pays standard body cost. Yin-Sloth only pays half cost for a few powers, but he lacks that disclaimer.
I take this to mean that his body investments are 1 step less for those mentioned
One thing that's interesting about D+G.... for Ra, who pays half PPE cost for all, it explicitly says that he still pays standard body cost. Yin-Sloth only pays half cost for a few powers, but he lacks that disclaimer.
I take this to mean that his body investments are 1 step less for those mentioned
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Re: Prototypical Deific Powers and Princes or Princesses of
Two-Step would seem to fit, makes it higher cost then double without making the powers impossible to use. In that line of thought it would make since that Yin-Sloth would pay one less step for body investments for those powers.
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Re: Prototypical Deific Powers and Princes or Princesses of
Yeah, Yin Sloth needs our love, I hate Ra.
After doing some more reason, I think I found an answer to the question. Dimension Book 12 (Outbreak) page 91 has a Greater Demon NPC (return of the Dysasha introduced in Rifts Mercenaries, yay) who has one of the prototypical deific powers available to Demon Princes in Hades. Although I haven't noticed Halthhag being referred to as a Prince, that appears to be what he is.
The PPE cost he pays for his power is triple standard, yet his MDC is only reduced 1 step (severe instead of token) so I think that shoots down my '2 steps' idea.
This guy is... actually kind of unbalanced. In spite of losing more MDC, he gets it ALL back (over 1500) in merely 2 days. If you look at all the other demon lords (all but 3) who are FULL lords (and not merely aspiring ones) while they may pay a bit less PPE, they pay the same cost, and can only get back 20-100 per day (60 per day on average). Somehow, this crazy bear can regenerate life spent on his prototypical power over 10x as fast as full Demon Lords would on average.
Even maxing out the rolls, 200 in 2 days is under an 8th of the life which the bear regenerates in that time. =/
Kinda makes me think if he can do this that the other Demon/Deevil Lords (possibly Gods) should also have faster regeneration of their MDC spent on deific powers. If he can do it back from half to full in 2 days, shouldn't they be able to in 1?
After doing some more reason, I think I found an answer to the question. Dimension Book 12 (Outbreak) page 91 has a Greater Demon NPC (return of the Dysasha introduced in Rifts Mercenaries, yay) who has one of the prototypical deific powers available to Demon Princes in Hades. Although I haven't noticed Halthhag being referred to as a Prince, that appears to be what he is.
The PPE cost he pays for his power is triple standard, yet his MDC is only reduced 1 step (severe instead of token) so I think that shoots down my '2 steps' idea.
This guy is... actually kind of unbalanced. In spite of losing more MDC, he gets it ALL back (over 1500) in merely 2 days. If you look at all the other demon lords (all but 3) who are FULL lords (and not merely aspiring ones) while they may pay a bit less PPE, they pay the same cost, and can only get back 20-100 per day (60 per day on average). Somehow, this crazy bear can regenerate life spent on his prototypical power over 10x as fast as full Demon Lords would on average.
Even maxing out the rolls, 200 in 2 days is under an 8th of the life which the bear regenerates in that time. =/
Kinda makes me think if he can do this that the other Demon/Deevil Lords (possibly Gods) should also have faster regeneration of their MDC spent on deific powers. If he can do it back from half to full in 2 days, shouldn't they be able to in 1?
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