Fallen CosmoKs, supernatural beings and Splugorthian Witches

[Tor]

In Atlantis, we are told that witches of the Splugorth have the unique limitation of not being supernatural beings. We know this is not a universal requirement of witches (Apsu made a Sowki into a witch, it's not mentioned in the OCC, and the Atlantis wording is talking exclusively about witches of Splugorth).

Does this mean that Fallen Cosmo Knights can't choose a Splugorth like Klynncryth as their new master? I'm not entirely sure if they're supernatural beings or not. We know Cosmo-Knights are, and we know Demon Knights are, but there hasn't been an explicit stance 1 way or the other for the FcosmoKs.

If even an alien intelligence (however mass-produced) like the Splugorth can't make supernaturals into witches, do you think this applies to most masters, and only the more powerful AIs can make supernatural beings into witches? Or could this possibly be more due to a "we don't want strong witches" policy by the Splugorth and not an actual inability?

[Nekira Sudacne]

I think it's a matter of "we don't want strong witches". remember the most powerful tool an AI giving the gift of union has for keeping a witch in line is to deny them all the powers, rendering them effectivly as the SDC mortals they were instead of the taste of godhood they had. This is quite terryifying, especially sinse you likely have enemies by this point. if you take a powerful supernatural being and threaten to withdraw the power, he could in theory shrug and go "i'll be fine without it".


Mortals can too, but the kind of mortals that they explictly say they look for (weak willed, often lazy mortals) are less likely to do so.

as for weather or not cosmo knights/fallen cosmo knights are supernatural...this is, honestly, unkowable. The cosmic forge's powers are so vast it could turn cosmo knights/fallen knights into supernatural beings, OR it could simply rewrite them genetically, turning them into effectively mega heros with unique powers, or prehaps it operates on some other form of power that is not magic, superpowered genetics or psionics, and cosmic energy is it's own force that operates by it's own rules, in which case they would be classified as "cosmic beings", vunerable to limitations and weakness's known only to those elder races who are advanced enough to work with it, such as the dominators.

[Tor]

Cosmo Knights definitely are supernatural, it describes them as being that in their section, but Fallens change so dramatically, one gets the impression they lose all former attributes that they aren't explicitly described as keeping.

Another thing occurs to me... it says sometimes Fallen Knights are turned back into Cosmo-Knights, yet it says the Forge doesn't turn supernatural beings into Cosmo-Knights... so I think that means they're not supernatural?

[Svartalf]

Well, it's canon that their punches and energy blasts are treated as supernatural, so it's pretty logical that the CK himself is supernatural too.

[Tor]

FcosmoKs don't have the energy blasts, and I don't think supernatural strength alone qualifies you as a supernatural being. Correct me if wrong, but that PS is all over the place these days.

[eliakon]

My personal take is that what ever was done to them remade them into a supernatural being. Loosing that power they are still 'remade' they just don't have as much of that power.
Interestingly this is somewhat similar to witches, and the abominations in Dyvaal.......

[Nightmask]

My personal take is that what ever was done to them remade them into a supernatural being. Loosing that power they are still 'remade' they just don't have as much of that power.
Interestingly this is somewhat similar to witches, and the abominations in Dyvaal.......

So you think in some fashion Cosmo-Knights are the Forge equivalent of witches or pact-makers so when they fall they lose the 'extra' power the Forge provides the full Knight causing them to default to the basic level that they're really transformed into in order to handle the remaining power?

[eliakon]

My personal take is that what ever was done to them remade them into a supernatural being. Loosing that power they are still 'remade' they just don't have as much of that power.
Interestingly this is somewhat similar to witches, and the abominations in Dyvaal.......

So you think in some fashion Cosmo-Knights are the Forge equivalent of witches or pact-makers so when they fall they lose the 'extra' power the Forge provides the full Knight causing them to default to the basic level that they're really transformed into in order to handle the remaining power?

Sort of.
When they became a Cosmo-Knight they were totally remade into something 'other'. What ever they were before, they are not. They are now a Cosmo-Knight. As a Cosmo-Knight they can draw vast powers from the Forge....as long as they do what the Forge says. If they don't do what the Forge thinks is right, they loose the ability to draw upon that power. HOWEVER they are not turned back into what they were before, they are still 'other', just an other that can't draw upon the Forge (but can learn to draw upon a lesser replacement power.....).

[Tor]

I didn't have this perspective until reading Dimensional Outbreak, but now I pretty much think CosmoKs are to Cosmic Forge what Apoks are to Wormwood and Demon Knights are to Cormal. Kinda makes me think of the Forge as a huge planet too.

Still doesn't tell me what Fallen Cosmo-Knights are though. We don't really have any fallen Apoks or fallen Demon Knights for comparison.

SoL did give us Fallen guardians...semantically... although all it really gave us was Dark Guardians.

While we know full well that FcosmoKs are not what they once were, something in between their original form and a CosmoK, the question is whether the intermediary form is supernatural or not.

[Tor]

I didn't have this perspective until reading Dimensional Outbreak, but now I pretty much think CosmoKs are to Cosmic Forge what Apoks are to Wormwood and Demon Knights are to Cormal. Kinda makes me think of the Forge as a huge planet too.

Still doesn't tell me what Fallen Cosmo-Knights are though. We don't really have any fallen Apoks or fallen Demon Knights for comparison.

SoL did give us Fallen guardians...semantically... although all it really gave us was Dark Guardians.

While we know full well that FcosmoKs are not what they once were, something in between their original form and a CosmoK, the question is whether the intermediary form is supernatural or not.

[say652]

Witch would be a good fit for these former CosmicWarriors.

[Tor]

Yeah the issue is what kind of witches they can be. If non-supernatural, then any kind of witch. If supernatural, the only kind of witch we explicitly know they can be is Apsu, since he's the only one known to have made a supernatural race into a witch. We know they couldn't bond to Splugorth. Everyone else is in a grey area where they lack a 'no supernatural' clause, yet also lack a supernatural example.