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In the description of the humpback whale in the Underseas book it mentions that the HBW can use specific power armors though none of the ones in the same book are built for them. Does anyone know of a resource in which they are listed?

My GM is finally running a game and the idea of being a magic and psychic whale in power armor is almost too good to pass up.

Nothing exists as far as I know, you could just use one of the others and say "its bigger, designed for humpbacks" or you could design your own from scratch using the robot creation rules in Rifts: Sourcebook One (Revised & Expanded).

Oh, speaking of whales in fancy armor...

I'm not gonna lie, the Space Whale is both horrifying and brilliant at the same time.

My inner power gamer has always wanted to find someone to let me make a Power Leech Cosmo Knight so I can go eat stars and throw planets. Alas, the closest I got was a game where I played a Lanotaur Hunter Invincible Guardsman.

Hadeshorn wrote:I'm not gonna lie, the Space Whale is both horrifying and brilliant at the same time.

My inner power gamer has always wanted to find someone to let me make a Power Leech Cosmo Knight so I can go eat stars and throw planets. Alas, the closest I got was a game where I played a Lanotaur Hunter Invincible Guardsman.

Yeah, it is my little brother's character. He would "eat" the other player characters and then fly them to locations at lightspeed, then spit them back out when they arrived. It was good times. Although he lost, he fought Cormal the Demon Planet and survived.

yep comso knight whale look great .

victor1966 wrote:yep comso knight whale look great .

Thank you Victor, I will let him know. Feel free to have look around the other characters on the site too. My players have a pretty amazing imagination.

The other Misfits

Hadeshorn wrote:In the description of the humpback whale in the Underseas book it mentions that the HBW can use specific power armors though none of the ones in the same book are built for them. Does anyone know of a resource in which they are listed?

My GM is finally running a game and the idea of being a magic and psychic whale in power armor is almost too good to pass up.

Actually the text states: "Pilot: None, except specially designed power armor" for all the whale entries (Killer, Sperm, and Humback, the text is the same for the Dolphin to), not that they use specific power armors. So they have to use custom jobs for the size and physiology.

Power armor they list for Killer Whales (and Dolphins) can be found on pg81-84. Based on the TDO-45 PA that can come sized for Dolphin (man-ish size) or Killer Whale (or large Dolphin types), it may be unwritten that a similar size feature is available for S/Hb-Whales. The smaller Dolphins mention on pg77 have a size difference similar to the larger Dolphin/Killer Whales, so it could be helpful in determining alterations to other Whale PA unless you want to go custom. Basically this approach will alter the statistical data (dimensions, mass, cost, etc) and only the Main Body leaving other MDC locations unchanged along with speed, sensors, and weapons for the listed examples.

The cosmo knight whale is a pretty awesome way to get a whale into a campaign. In one lemurian campaign a whale that was a champion that saved a lot of people got gifted a suit of bioarmor along the lines of the crustacean except it had four legs on it too to allow him to manuver around on land.

Needless to say the GM ruled that he had a pretty high horror factor for people who had not met him before seeing this giant "thing" waddling around on land.

LOL... you know that a beached whale smotheres under its own weight... I guess that was what happened when it wore that amor onland (bar magic or it including a humongous tank for the whale to float in)

Svartalf wrote:LOL... you know that a beached whale smotheres under its own weight... I guess that was what happened when it wore that amor onland (bar magic or it including a humongous tank for the whale to float in)

Whales don't normally have magical or psychic powers either, but they do in Rifts. Just have fun with it.

I actually have a Killer Whale Player Character that drives around in a giant fish tank on tracks. He can fly under his own power in an emergency using magic but the tank with treads is easier and more convenient most of the time. Psychic Invisibility means most folks just ignore him most of the time. Kinda funny when you think about it.

Rick Sternbach's done a number of paintings of dolphin astronauts in EVA suits, complete with robotic arms on their fins...pre-dating David Brin's uplifted dolphins with their land-walkers. And even before than Larry Niven makes mention of the Known Space dolphins buying 'Hands'.

A Sperm Whale CosmoKnight, though? That's serious incentive not to name your starship 'Essex' or 'Ahab'.

Akashic Soldier wrote:Whales don't normally have magical or psychic powers either, but they do in Rifts.

So far as we know... they could just be very selective in their use.

taalismn wrote:Rick Sternbach's done a number of paintings of dolphin astronauts in EVA suits, complete with robotic arms on their fins...pre-dating David Brin's uplifted dolphins with their land-walkers. And even before than Larry Niven makes mention of the Known Space dolphins buying 'Hands'.

A Sperm Whale CosmoKnight, though? That's serious incentive not to name your starship 'Essex' or 'Ahab'.

Haz-mat over at nexus nine has "Sir Finn Hanson"

glitterboy2098 wrote:Haz-mat over at nexus nine has "Sir Finn Hanson"

Look out, sharks with lasers!

Aramanthus over there mentioned he had a pair.. a cosmoknight Sperm whale named holmes who traveled with a cosmoknight Killer whale named Watson.. holmes being historically huge (90ft long, 125 tons, like they were before whaling) but not too bright, and watson being on the small size but very smart..


on the question of whale Powered Armor.. like the dolphin and orca ones, they'd really be body armor with engines and weapons.. as big as whales get, they'd be able to carry pretty heavy firepower.. and since unlike dolphins and orca they don't seem fascinated by speed, i'd suspect they'd want heavier armor instead.

and shoot.. could you imagine what a Sperm Whale or Blue Whale powered Armor could carry? they are nearly the size of a modern attack submarine.. you could carry heavy torpedo tubes, vertically launched cruise missiles/LRM's, etc.. or if you really want to get nasty.. troop bays for PA equipped Dolphins to create an underwater sub-carrier...

glitterboy2098 wrote:Aramanthus over there mentioned he had a pair.. a cosmoknight Sperm whale named holmes who traveled with a cosmoknight Killer whale named Watson.. holmes being historically huge (90ft long, 125 tons, like they were before whaling) but not too bright, and watson being on the small size but very smart..


on the question of whale Powered Armor.. like the dolphin and orca ones, they'd really be body armor with engines and weapons.. as big as whales get, they'd be able to carry pretty heavy firepower.. and since unlike dolphins and orca they don't seem fascinated by speed, i'd suspect they'd want heavier armor instead.

and shoot.. could you imagine what a Sperm Whale or Blue Whale powered Armor could carry? they are nearly the size of a modern attack submarine.. you could carry heavy torpedo tubes, vertically launched cruise missiles/LRM's, etc.. or if you really want to get nasty.. troop bays for PA equipped Dolphins to create an underwater sub-carrier...

Crab drones, with razor claws, for getting into those small spaces where meat might hide...

Hmmm...now I'm sorely tempted to sketch and stat up a sperm whale power armor....blunt x-bow-style prow, heavy armor, sonic amplifier cannon built in, lateral torpedo banks, maybe vibroblade fins and a power jaw? Open back-end seems mandatory for these sorts of things.

And that's the LIGHT model.

glitterboy2098 wrote:on the question of whale Powered Armor.. like the dolphin and orca ones, they'd really be body armor with engines and weapons.. as big as whales get, they'd be able to carry pretty heavy firepower.. and since unlike dolphins and orca they don't seem fascinated by speed, i'd suspect they'd want heavier armor instead.

Well if the body armor has engines (or other built in means that augment their mobility) and weapons (aside from simple light ones) that almost qualifies them as power armor I would think, at least for their physiology, if not power armor then at least powered armor as regular body armor typically does not have built in weapons (I know there are a few that do) and does not augment their mobility. Though truth be told, the existing PA in Underseas are more "vehicles" than "Power/Body Armor" for Dolphin/Whales.

glitterboy2098 wrote:and shoot.. could you imagine what a Sperm Whale or Blue Whale powered Armor could carry? they are nearly the size of a modern attack submarine.. you could carry heavy torpedo tubes, vertically launched cruise missiles/LRM's, etc.. or if you really want to get nasty.. troop bays for PA equipped Dolphins to create an underwater sub-carrier...

Well most of the volume for the whale's armor wouldn't be available as in a traditional sub though, so they aren't as impressive as a full sub. However, they could certainly use some big/heavy weapon loads outclassing their smaller cousins, but they could also have a weapons crew (gunners) to further improve their combat effectiveness much more so than their smaller cousins.

Though as far as picturing it, can't escape the Dino-Riders vibe in that respect (they did have a few that are in roughly the same dimensions IINM).

‘Cachalot’ Sperm Whale Armor(SWA)

(aka 'Sea Ram')

“In the past it is said men roamed these waters and hunted, no, ‘harvested’ the great whales. These days, it’s a lot more of a contest, with the whales hunting, often from many miles away, men or those who have taken their places in the kill ships.”

‘Cachalot’ SWA is a Tritonia-designed suit of cetacean ‘power armor’ designed with sperm whales in mind, but also usable by other large whales.
SWA takes the form of a large armored aquatic sled that the whale swims into from the rear, and engages the armor clamps to hold them in place. The front of the sled is blunt and heavily armored, and can be used for ramming. Perhaps remembering the lethal backstabbing attacks of whalers, the SWA has an articulated ‘lobster tail’ of armor plates extending back to the end of the operator’s flukes. Hydrojets on the sides and bottom assist the whale in swimming while moving the heavy mass of armor and weaponry.
Weaponry is heavy on the SWA; a powerful multimode sonic cannon is buried in the heavily-armored prow, while two modular weapons pods allow for a variety of secondary weapons configurations. A vibro-blade-equipped power-jaw and side saber-fins allows for lethal close-quarters combat, be it against the entangling tentacles of giant squid, or the hulls of Horune pirates.
‘Cachalot’ SWA has begin appearing in the forces arrayed against the Lord of the Deep and its minions. It has also begun appearing with parties of parties of particularly adventurous whales making armed forays into the Atlantic Ocean, hunting Horune and other maritime threats.

Type: TO-90 SWA
Class: Sperm Whale Combat Power Armor
Crew: One sperm whale, small whale, or very large pnuema-biform.
MDC/Armor by Location:
*Main Body/Pilot Area 650
**Sonic Cannon 120
Lateral Hydrothrusters(2) 200 each
Lateral Weapons Pods(2) 150 each
Bottom Thruster(1) 180
Rip Fins(2) 60 each

*The whale operator can only be hit from behind, but even then the attacker is -5 to strike and must make a called shot.

**The sonic cannon is buried in the heavy main body armor, with only a narrow firing slit showing. It is -5 to target, even on a called shot.

Height: 22 ft
Width: 18 ft; razor-fins can sweep out an additional 5 ft to each side.
Length: 75 ft
Weight: 30 tons
Cargo: None
Powerplant: Nuclear w/ 12 year energy life, or solar-electric
Speed:(Ground) Not possible
(Air) Not possible
(Water Surface) 32 MPH
(Underwater) 38 MPH
Maximum Depth: 3 miles
Market Cost: 3.2 million credits for nuclear, 5.6 million credits for solar.
Systems of Note:
-Short Range Sonar(2 miles)
-Radiation Detector
-Laser Distancing System(4,000 ft range)
-Homing Beacon(12 hour/400 miles)
-Long Range Directional Radio(700 miles)
-Neutrally Buoyant
-Onboard Air Supply(180 minute duration)
-Periscope--An 8-foot extendable periscope can be raised, allowing the whale to spy on surface activity without actually breaching to ‘spy hop’.

Weapons Systems:
1) Sonic Cannon(1)----Built into the heavily reinforced prow’s front and top is a powerful multimode sonic cannon. Emulating the sperm whale’s own alleged ability to use their powerful sonar to stun their prey, the sonic cannon also has a stun capability.
The sonic cannon has also reportedly been used as an amplifier for broadcasting long range whale calls.
Range: 2,000 ft
Damage: 1d6x10 MD per blast, plus 3d6 MD to a 10 ft diameter area around the blast area(double damage and range underwater)
(Shock /Stun Mode) Can be concentrated to a single target, or can be spread out to cover a 15 ft wide area.
Unprotected personnel must save versus non-lethal poison (16 or higher) or be stunned for 1d4 melee rds. People in sealed power armor save at an 8 or higher for the wide area blast, but make a standard save for the concentrated blast. Victims who fail their save have a 65% chance of being knocked unconscious for 1d4 melees. Those who manage to retain consciousness will be -6 on initiative, strike, parry, dodge, while Speed, APMs, and skill performance rolls will be reduced by 50%. This condition lasts for 1d4 melee rounds.
Those who manage to make their save will be less inconvenienced, and will only be -1 on initiative, strike, parry, and dodge for 1d4 melees.
Sonar Blast----This is an enormous ‘belch’ of sonic cacophony that can blind sonar systems within range with a mass of ‘white noise’, knocking them out for 1d4 melees. Sonar and acoustic homing systems will lose target lock, and sonar-using creatures will be stunned and ‘blind’ for 1d4 minutes.
Vibration Blast---This takes up ALL attacks per melee to initiate and maintain, and consists of focusing a low powered beam on a sealed ship(submarines are ideal), and gradually inducing an ultra-low frequency vibration throughout its structure. While this doesn’t do any damage per say, it does affect the hearing and inner ears of crew members, causing creeping disorientation and increasing unsettledness, leading up to nausea. After one melee people with unprotected hearing(or un-insulated contact with the ship’s hull structure) will be -1 to strike, parry, and dodge, and -5% to skills(they become easily distracted). After two melees they are -2 to strike, parry, and dodge, -10% to skills, and are -10% to their sense of balance...and so on...People with protected hearing are immune to the effect, but beings with enhanced hearing are TWICE as susceptible to the effects.
This setting is most effective against vessels 60 ft long or smaller...larger vessels will take an extra full melee per 50 ft of length for this to work...or several cannon working in concert, to be effective.

Rate of Fire: ECHH
Payload: Effectively Unlimited

2) Modular Weapons Pods(2)---Mounted on the sides and on the front of the lateral thruster pods are two modular weapons pods that be fitted with a variety of mission-specific ordnance, from torpedo tubes to energy weapons. SSM and SAM missiles are rarely fitted, given their lack of utility underwater, but are still available for those occasions where attacking airborne opponents or inshore targets is desired.
a) Mini-Torpedoes----24
b) Light Torpedoes----12
c) Medium Torpedoes----6
d) Heavy Torpedoes---3

e) Blue-Green Laser Pod
Range: 3,000 ft in air or water
Damage: 2d6 MD single shot, 4d6 MD double pulse blast, or 1d6x10 MD triple-shot burst
Rate of Fire: ECHH
Payload: Effectively Unlimited

f) Ion Blaster Pod
Range: 1,200 ft underwater, 2,000 ft in air
Damage: 1d4x10 MD per blast
Rate of Fire: ECHH
Payload: Effectively Unlimited

g) Mini-Missiles---24
h) Short Range Missiles---12
i) Medium Range Missiles---4

j) Harpoon-III SSMs---Medium-range anti-ship cruise missile. The irony of the name isn’t lost on the whales.
Range: 40 miles
Damage: 2d6x10 MD to 40 ft blast radius
Rate of Fire: Volleys of 1-4 (all)
Payload: 4
Bonuses: +5 to strike

k) Sea-Fire Missiles--Copies of Kittani ordnance, licensed to Tritonia from one of its trade allies. Still fairly uncommon in availability.
Range:(Underwater) 20 miles
(Air) 75 miles
Speed:(Underwater) 400 MPH
(Air) Mach 3
Damage: 4d6x10 MD
Rate of Fire: Volleys of 1-4 (all)
Payload: 4
Bonuses: (Torpedo)Because of the torpedoes’ higher speed and advanced targeting systems, the Sea Fire doesn’t suffer the same range and accuracy penalties as conventional torpedoes. The Sea Fire has a +1 to strike, and a +3 to strike within 3,000 ft of the target.
(Missile)---Not quite as accurate as a Harpoon III, but more powerful. +3 to strike

l) Rail Guns(2)---Two coupled rail guns, similar to those mounted on other cetacean power armors.
Range: 1,200 ft underwater, 3,000 ft in air.
Damage: 1d4 MD single round, 1d4x10 MD for a 40 shot burst. DOUBLE for both guns in the pod firing simultaneously.
Rate of Fire: ECHH
Payload: 9,600 rds per pod, or 120 bursts per gun(240 bursts total)

3) Fin Blades(2)--- Proportionally longer than the sperm whale’s own lateral fins, these ‘switchblade’ fins can deliver a deep cutting sideswipe.
Range: Melee
Damage: 3d6 MD side swipe, or a high speed strike(delivered at speeds in excess of 25 MPH and takes 1 APM) doing 1d6x10 MD

4) Power Jaw---The SWA sports a powered biting jaw with the additional of extending vibroblade mandibles that can scissor through megadamage flesh or structures.
Range: Melee
Damage: 2d6 MD bite, +2d4 MD from the scissor vibroblades

5) Fluke Mace---A flattened armor plate that assists in increasing the damage of fluke strikes.
Range: Melee
Damage: +2d4 MD to fluke strikes

6) Physical Combat
Ram 3d6 MD
Power Ram(delivered at speeds in excess of 25 MPH and takes 1 APM) 2d4x10 MD
Bonuses: +2 to strike, +1 to roll

Damn, If I had a printer, that would go straight into Underseas

Had a good 'tool kit' of pre-formated systems and hardware to draw on to throw it together, though the image came first to my mind. Getting THAT up will take longer.

Here are a couple pictures from a great artist CrazyAsian1

They are robots but could just as easily be Power armor for whales.
Black Fish
Physeter Macrocephalus

abtex wrote:Here are a couple pictures from a great artist CrazyAsian1

They are robots but could just as easily be Power armor for whales.
Black Fish
Physeter Macrocephalus

Love the background story on these things.
I'd say, Power Armor, NO.
Pre-Rifts Golden Age robot drones? Hell yes. Some technology the New Navy lost? Or was forced to give up in order to placate the intelligent whales they're based on.

Akashic Soldier wrote:Oh, speaking of whales in fancy armor...

Reminds me of http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/File ... rWhale.jpg

How did you figure out his HP/SDC? I would love to bring Cosmos/Fallens to non-MDC settings but am not sure how to do such a conversion.

Those actually seem pretty low for a whale. Rather than converting the MDC of a Cosmo-Knight to SDC, I think you should probably just figure out normal Sperm-Whale stats and use those, I don't think it would be out of line. The idea that Cosmic power would actually make you weaker in SDC settings just because the MDC it endows is fewer points than your race's default SDC seems odd.

In this case, Cosmo should have (based on his PE of 26) HP of 580 and on average about 210 SDC, his is barely above half that, almost the minimum.

Also he should have at least minor psychic abilities, and would be capable of spellsongs. Becoming a Cosmo Knight would not strip him of those abilities.

Reading those stats I am a bit confused about how some of the damage was calculated though. Like how did you get 1d4x100 on a full-speed ram with the lance? Especially since that's before any double/triple.

It seems like you based this on the SDC damage that whales inflict and just directly converted it to MD, but I don't think it'd work like that. I do sorta get the logic though... his supernatural PS would give you the basic bite/jab/slap damage as the 'normal punch' sorta thing, and Underseas DOES say 'similar to a punch' for Head Jab.

Considering that underseas' punch-equiv is merely 5d6 though, a head strike doing 2d6x10 is 4x as much. So if by SNPS you do d6x10 with a punch/Jab, you really should do 4d6x10 with a Head Strike (and also a Tail Strike).

The ram damage is trickier since we have to convert a d6 to a d4. 100d4 compared to 5d6 is at least a multiplier of x6, probably x7 is more reasonable.

The simplest approach though, since at SNPS a punch doing d6x10 MD is double the dice of the 5d6 head jab, would be to just double everything and convert it to MD. So a full speed ram should actually do 2d4x100 MD, not 1d4x100, so you're actually being conservative. That's also without the lance. Adding that on top, you would actually do 1d4x210 MD with it.

It actually seems a bit messy because even though the heading says 'lance' you are actually listing more broadly his unarmed damage.

The d4x10 default would be added on top of that, so

I get the x2/x3 from the PF skill (though it lacked strike bonuses... did you just use WP spear for that?) but not the ramming thing.

Also why even bother noting the x2/x3 charge attack under 'restrained'. Charges seem inherently UNrestrained. While I suppose it is a tricky way to get 2d6/3d6 rather than jumping right from d6 to d6x10, I think it'd be better roleplay-wise to just try for a pull punch in those situations.

I always liked the idea of spending most of your PPE on a force field. Back in the days I used to think there might be a '1 cosmic weapon cap' (the cover of 3 Galaxies cleared up that misconception) it was the biggest investment you could make, although for combat the energy-boosting was probably still more advantageous.

Normally I don't think the force field can explicitly protect other people, but if you're a whale, you can just hold people in your mouth and anything that protects you (including cosmic armor) would not protect them, which is sweet.

kaid wrote:a whale that was a champion that saved a lot of people got gifted a suit of bioarmor along the lines of the crustacean except it had four legs on it too to allow him to manuver around on land.

That's not terrifying at all.

Tor wrote:[

Normally I don't think the force field can explicitly protect other people, but if you're a whale, you can just hold people in your mouth and anything that protects you (including cosmic armor) would not protect them, which is sweet.

.

"Moby pulled a Jonah Hold with the refugees, but when that Invincible Guardsman punched him, he accidentally swallowed. Had to use a Heimlich Maneuver to save them all. Have a firehose, some towels, and some sedatives ready on the flight deck when we come in. "

taalismn wrote:

abtex wrote:Here are a couple pictures from a great artist CrazyAsian1

They are robots but could just as easily be Power armor for whales.
Black Fish
Physeter Macrocephalus

Love the background story on these things.
I'd say, Power Armor, NO.
Pre-Rifts Golden Age robot drones? Hell yes. Some technology the New Navy lost? Or was forced to give up in order to placate the intelligent whales they're based on.

Ok.
But how many Power Armors can also be used as Drones?
Pictures may show PA in closed form [Drone].

I assume almost any power armor could be reconfigured as a drone. You'd just need to wire up the electronic impulses that control the movement to an AI instead of switches. In spite of getting PP bonuses and nonsense, I don't think very many rely on hydraulic enhancement of real moves. Unless your PS attribute actually carries through I say an AI could operate it. So maybe not those gurgoyle PAs.

Tor wrote:I assume almost any power armor could be reconfigured as a drone. You'd just need to wire up the electronic impulses that control the movement to an AI instead of switches. In spite of getting PP bonuses and nonsense, I don't think very many rely on hydraulic enhancement of real moves. Unless your PS attribute actually carries through I say an AI could operate it. So maybe not those gurgoyle PAs.

Indeed. Which means Chipwell, if it made a deal for suitably cheap-o robotic systems, could be churning out its own line of 'zombied' PA-based combat drones.

taalismn wrote:

Tor wrote:I assume almost any power armor could be reconfigured as a drone. You'd just need to wire up the electronic impulses that control the movement to an AI instead of switches. In spite of getting PP bonuses and nonsense, I don't think very many rely on hydraulic enhancement of real moves. Unless your PS attribute actually carries through I say an AI could operate it. So maybe not those gurgoyle PAs.

Indeed. Which means Chipwell, if it made a deal for suitably cheap-o robotic systems, could be churning out its own line of 'zombied' PA-based combat drones.

Chipwell combat 'drones' are controlled by on board human pilots.

Or possibly mummies/zombies. Either can use standard EBA just fine. Mummies have trouble with extra features but chipwell tends to lack those. If it's the one with the build-in gun, that's zombie territory.

You could also plausibly hook up the 6ft tall golems into those, or those new puppets in Heart of Magic.

Tor wrote:I assume almost any power armor could be reconfigured as a drone. You'd just need to wire up the electronic impulses that control the movement to an AI instead of switches. In spite of getting PP bonuses and nonsense, I don't think very many rely on hydraulic enhancement of real moves. Unless your PS attribute actually carries through I say an AI could operate it. So maybe not those gurgoyle PAs.

Vanko: "People cause problem. Drone better"

converting a PA to an unpiloted robot would just be a case of disconnecting the forcefeedback interface that normally controls the suit, and wiring the motors and various sensors/computers/radios into a computer with AI ability. either low grade AI with a powerful radio for use as a remote operated drone, or a better AI for use as a skelebot style autonomous robot.

the main reason i suspect no one does is because drones would not show the same tactical and strategic flexibility and innovation a human pilot can. you would also have to figure the cost would be higher than building a dedicated drone. though this might be a good use those ungodly amounts of mothballed SAMAS armor the CS is supposed to have.