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So I recall reading that elves can not breed with humans. So no half-elves?
I was thinking of making a character that has a relative, or relatives from a different species at some point in his past.

Anyone know if there are any rules about humans and other species off-springs?

Any known combinations?

Thanks,
Mal

Palladium is definitely down on mixed races.
Humans (and most human sub-species) can combine with most human sub-species, and a few...demi humans (Ogres for instance)
Gods are of course a unique exception
But generally if your not a pure breed, there was either major magic or massive genetic work done (and a GM plot device)

Malleable wrote:So I recall reading that elves can not breed with humans. So no half-elves?
I was thinking of making a character that has a relative, or relatives from a different species at some point in his past.

Anyone know if there are any rules about humans and other species off-springs?

Any known combinations?

Thanks,
Mal

Palladium conversion book one makes explicit that half breeds are impossible, and goes into great detail about it. Not just no half-elves, it dosn't allow half ANYTHING

Only other human races (Ogres , True Atlanteans, Sea Titans and Altess) are compatible with humans while being different enough as species... and "hybrids" usually breed true to the non basic human parent.

Malleable wrote:So I recall reading that elves can not breed with humans. So no half-elves?
I was thinking of making a character that has a relative, or relatives from a different species at some point in his past.

Anyone know if there are any rules about humans and other species off-springs?

Any known combinations?

Thanks,
Mal

The best you can do is staying within your own species in Palladium terms, though humans do have some variants that can still breed with regular (True Atlantean, Psi-Stalker, Psi-Ghost, Amazon, Sea Titan, etc) that are specifically mentioned (though product is not 1/2-breed but full on one or the other). The closest you can do to full alien is to have a human D-Bee relative (ie a human who is not native to Rifts Earth) as the Family Origin table in the old Rifts Main Book had (removed from RUE).

Your alternative is to construct your 'hybrid' as a new RCC: average out the stats between Humans and Elves(or your desired other species bookend), or roll up using the new races charts in Rifts: Phaseworld, where you can create a species with human-average stats, but elven features, and/or higher incidence of magic/psionics use.

Another 'build-to-yourself' option would be to use the Eugenic Heroes class in Powers Unlimited Two to create an 'elf-mod' package, which would be in keeping with advanced societies where biogenetic engineering is casual, or is being deployed as a means to infiltrate other cultures/species.

I for one, am grateful they took this approach.

Mixing race and O.C.C. is munchkin enough (for this system). I don't want a player coming up to me saying he wants to be half dinosaucer half dinobot knight of the broken rose O.C.C.

Morik wrote:I for one, am grateful they took this approach.

Mixing race and O.C.C. is munchkin enough (for this system). I don't want a player coming up to me saying he wants to be half dinosaucer half dinobot knight of the broken rose O.C.C.

Or half Butter-Troll/Naga-man Priest of The Revised Church Militant of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Morik wrote:Mixing race and O.C.C. is munchkin enough (for this system).

Not necessarily, plenty of race/OCC combos can be much less powerful than a single OCC or RCC. Depends on what we're talking about.

I don't agree with calling anything inherently munchkin either. That's a play-style, a personality-type, not something inherent to any content in the Megaverse.

Okay, how about 'half and half races' are an unnecessary amount of munchkin bait.

eliakon wrote:Okay, how about 'half and half races' are an unnecessary amount of munchkin bait.

That's provided that the offspring get the BEST of both parents and not rampant detrimental birth defects(including, but not limited to, sterility).
"Well, your hybrid dragon-sphinx is....a puddle of rapidly disassociating cellular goo."

Tor wrote:

Morik wrote:Mixing race and O.C.C. is munchkin enough (for this system).

Not necessarily, plenty of race/OCC combos can be much less powerful than a single OCC or RCC. Depends on what we're talking about.

I don't agree with calling anything inherently munchkin either. That's a play-style, a personality-type, not something inherent to any content in the Megaverse.

I don't care if you agree on how I describe anything.

I'll play my game more straight laced and fun for everyone playing while you have a munchkin/ min-maxer/ glory hound ruin the adventures you design.

My players love coming back to play my games.

They know that I wont allow some kid come into the game with a half dragon/ half true atlantean undead slayer with gene splicer modifications from Psyscape who also happens to be able to get all his equipment from a secret megaversal legion supplier.

So let's agree that we run separate games and can describe the system any way we want to because it's our opinion.

eliakon wrote:Okay, how about 'half and half races' are an unnecessary amount of munchkin bait.

Still gotta disagree there. The most powerful halfbreed is probably going to be a demigod, one would logically assume.

What would be so bad about a half Invalian half Oni?

Morik wrote:I wont allow some kid come into the game with a half dragon/ half true atlantean undead slayer with gene splicer modifications from Psyscape who also happens to be able to get all his equipment from a secret megaversal legion supplier.

My point is you're generalization ALL halfbreeds and yet only thinking of the most powerful kinds. You could easily mix weak or inconsequential breeds.

A half wolfen/dogboy for example. Or a half werejaguar/weretiger.

Morik wrote:

Tor wrote:

Morik wrote:Mixing race and O.C.C. is munchkin enough (for this system).

Not necessarily, plenty of race/OCC combos can be much less powerful than a single OCC or RCC. Depends on what we're talking about.

I don't agree with calling anything inherently munchkin either. That's a play-style, a personality-type, not something inherent to any content in the Megaverse.

I don't care if you agree on how I describe anything.

I'll play my game more straight laced and fun for everyone playing while you have a munchkin/ min-maxer/ glory hound ruin the adventures you design.

My players love coming back to play my games.

They know that I wont allow some kid come into the game with a half dragon/ half true atlantean undead slayer with gene splicer modifications from Psyscape who also happens to be able to get all his equipment from a secret megaversal legion supplier.

So let's agree that we run separate games and can describe the system any way we want to because it's our opinion.

As pointed out munchkin is a play style, which means anything can be played munchkin from a vagabond on up because it's how the player chooses to play the character not the character itself. Some may make that kind of detrimental play style easier but don't go kidding yourself that 'well all I have to do is keep out those kinds of characters and I don't have to worry about munchkin play' because you can play anything munchkin.

Thanks again guys.

I agree that half-breeds can lead to munchkinism. So I don't mind the ban.
But I guess I am use to half-elves and half-orcs.

Was thinking of a human looking person who had a great great grandfather that was a dwarf.

Mal

Techincally not possible, but what of a human raised by Old Uncle Gorin, a Dwarf?

He might start thinking he IS a dwarf. Isn't there an NPC 'dwarf king' like that somewhere in PF?

Another gruesome possibility suggests itself for a 'hybrid'....biowizardry surgical recombination of two individuals.
Depending on how sadistic the Splugorth are, toss in a few biowizardry mods as well.
The resulting chimaera isn't likely to have a very happy story, likely suffering from a range of deformities, and a half dozen or more insanities, including an acute case of multiple personalities.

taalismn wrote:Depending on how sadistic the Splugorth are

Is that even a question?

Jerell wrote:

taalismn wrote:Depending on how sadistic the Splugorth are

Is that even a question?

Depends on whether they want a pathetic genetic freak or a pathetic genetic freak that can breath fire and bend steel I-beams with its bare hands.

if I were judging by the Altara, I would say they want the hyper-awesome, good looking ones.

Sadism would not be good if it interfered with business. I get the impress most Splugorth CATER to sadists, but tend not to be themselves.

Tor wrote:Sadism would not be good if it interfered with business. I get the impress most Splugorth CATER to sadists, but tend not to be themselves.

They like to play with their (sentient)food. That's sadism enough for me.

Desslyth the younger by Mumah- http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/ ... 3eyxqo.jpg Says it all.

Jerell wrote:Desslyth the younger by Mumah- http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/ ... 3eyxqo.jpg Says it all.

Lecherous cyclopean leer there...

taalismn wrote:They like to play with their (sentient)food. That's sadism enough for me.

One could merely call this boredom of politeness, to see if their food is worth eating or keeping around. Perhaps they tend to eat inferior members, bettering our species.

It's only sadism if they delight from torment.

taalismn wrote:Another gruesome possibility suggests itself for a 'hybrid'....biowizardry surgical recombination of two individuals.
Depending on how sadistic the Splugorth are, toss in a few biowizardry mods as well.
The resulting chimaera isn't likely to have a very happy story, likely suffering from a range of deformities, and a half dozen or more insanities, including an acute case of multiple personalities.

Biowizardry is certainly possible, but its more like grafting multiple organisims together.

A few thoughts do spring to mind though:
-Auto-Gs. What if the genetic sample is "tainted" with two (or more) species and what would happen. Would they use the dominant one, not work, could they pick, or would they "fuse" the material together?

-The Lord of the Deep manages to create those bi-forms from two disseperate creatures (humanoid + acquatic type). So with the right magic...

-Isn't there a floating head type undead somewhere that steals headless bodies or something, and it looks like an elf. I don't recall if it was a SA book or in a PF book. So you could have it steal a human body, with its elf-like head.

-Gene-Spicers (and the Gene Tech) could probably make a hybrid of two races via genetic manipulation to result in a half-breed. But we aren't talking about natrual conception here.

For this next bit, a GM coul deciede to rule if a given race can breed with humans even if they aren't supposed to by RAW declaring them a variant-species or close enough to breed. In this case they can either use existing examples in Rifts/PF for human/variant to how it would work (result is off-spring being treated as 1 type basically) or look at 2E RT in how they handle half-breeds with the Tirolians and Zentraedi (who can breed with humans) in assigning bonuses.

ShadowLogan wrote:[-Isn't there a floating head type undead somewhere that steals headless bodies or something, and it looks like an elf. I don't recall if it was a SA book or in a PF book. So you could have it steal a human body, with its elf-like head..

Malaysian vampire, born from women who die in childbirth; it appears in one of the Rifters. Flying head with a tree of internal organs dangling underneath.
Similar critters have shown up in at least two graphic novels, one set in an Asian village where somebody is murdering local women, and another set in an alternate Ninja-Scroll-type Japan-worldline(where they have, for instance, golem-like 'war puppets'). A pair of these monsters steal bodies; the female of the pair kills a prostitute for her child-bearing ability so that the two monsters can have a child(it's hinted that simply by possessing bodies, the vampires somehow transfer some of their essence into the reproductive process, so the resulting offspring will actually be similarly demonic).
But that's what's out there, besides Palladium.

He means the jaliquette from the LotD gallery of Undead (and Dark Conversions)

Svartalf wrote:He means the jaliquette from the LotD gallery of Undead (and Dark Conversions)

Ah. more nastiness, then. Thanks for the heads up.

I admit to allowing halfbreeds, but I go by mythology, where the fae mated with humans, demons and angels did so too, and elves, dwarves, and the like often could produce viable offspring. Gods get more leeway, but I tend to keep it to humanoid interbreeding. There are exceptions, look at Sleipnir's origins.

Misfit KotLD wrote: There are exceptions, look at Sleipnir's origins.

Loki: "Brother of mine, we agreed NEVER to speak of that ...'incident'...ever again."

taalismn wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote: There are exceptions, look at Sleipnir's origins.

Loki: "Brother of mine, we agreed NEVER to speak of that ...'incident'...ever again."

Honestly, I think that's why Loki likes to come to our planet and blow stuff up.

You can use Aliens Unlimited and create a dwarven race that is actually a sub human race. Say that the Dwarven man came to Rifts Earth through Phase World and married a human woman, or at least made merry with her. You can also say that he was young at the time and lived amongst true dwarves before this happened. It would make for an interesting plot device and could be pretty fun. I take the approach of just have fun.

taalismn wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote: There are exceptions, look at Sleipnir's origins.

Loki: "Brother of mine, we agreed NEVER to speak of that ...'incident'...ever again."

Read this recently: http://montrose.is/sgvy/archives/Edda4/ ... Page2.html

Svartalf wrote:He means the jaliquette from the LotD gallery of Undead (and Dark Conversions)

That would be the one. Was unaware that it made it into Dark Conversions.

ShadowLogan wrote:

Svartalf wrote:He means the jaliquette from the LotD gallery of Undead (and Dark Conversions)

That would be the one. Was unaware that it made it into Dark Conversions.

This being the Rifts thread, I took the Rifts angle.

Its funny that people here state science and munchkinism for the reasons for not allowing half-breeds of any kind...

Science is a cool thing and all but since humanity have yet to make contact and study another sentient lifeform outside of our planet, no scientist worth all his college years, Master and PhD degrees can say how likely or unlikely is for the human race to be able to have offsprings with a Alien race that we are yet to encounter. I am no scientist and my point is based on logic only so bear with me ok?.

If all the knowledge on biology that our civilization have is based only on our little planet and if we dont have yet found "Alien Lifeforms" to study or even visited other "planets with life", then how can we (me, you, a scientist or even Siembieda) state that the possibility for the human race to mix with another non-human race is zero?

Quoting the Greek Philosopher Socrates: "I know one thing: that I know nothing"


Munchkinism is only a concern if the GM dont understand the meaning of the word "half" of half-breed... if he does then he will not allow a player to make a half-demon/Asgardian Elf with the best of the both races.

The term Half-Breed already means a creature that have at best half of the capacities of both races, so in game terms its simple a matter of getting the info on each races, averaging theirs dice rollings for stats (rounding down of course) and deciding what the half-breed will have or not in terms of abilities and powers. Really simple and I doub it will be munchking at all.

Nightmaster wrote:Its funny that people here state science and munchkinism for the reasons for not allowing half-breeds of any kind...

Science is a cool thing and all but since humanity have yet to make contact and study another sentient lifeform outside of our planet, no scientist worth all his college years, Master and PhD degrees can say how likely or unlikely is for the human race to be able to have offsprings with a Alien race that we are yet to encounter. I am no scientist and my point is based on logic only so bear with me ok?.

If all the knowledge on biology that our civilization have is based only on our little planet and if we dont have yet found "Alien Lifeforms" to study or even visited other "planets with life", then how can we (me, you, a scientist or even Siembieda) state that the possibility for the human race to mix with another non-human race is zero?

Quoting the Greek Philosopher Socrates: "I know one thing: that I know nothing"


Munchkinism is only a concern if the GM dont understand the meaning of the word "half" of half-breed... if he does then he will not allow a player to make a half-demon/Asgardian Elf with the best of the both races.

The term Half-Breed already means a creature that have at best half of the capacities of both races, so in game terms its simple a matter of getting the info on each races, averaging theirs dice rollings for stats (rounding down of course) and deciding what the half-breed will have or not in terms of abilities and powers. Really simple and I doub it will be munchking at all.

The prevailing suspicion is that an alien race will be even LESS genetically similar to humans than say....great apes, and since THOSE can't cross breed with humans, the idea that something else could is....iffy at best. They would have to have an identical bio-chemical base, use the same DNA, have the same number of chromosomes, have the same codings for all the protiens, in the same places.......or put another way...they would have to be human.

Nightmaster wrote:The term Half-Breed already means a creature that have at best half of the capacities of both races

Not necessarily, that depends on whether or not one takes the approach of it being 1/2 + 1/2, or whether the traits conflict with each other (worse than either race) or are potentially synergistic (better than even the sum of the best of both)

eliakon wrote:The prevailing suspicion is that an alien race will be even LESS genetically similar to humans than say....great apes, and since THOSE can't cross breed with humans, the idea that something else could is....iffy at best. They would have to have an identical bio-chemical base, use the same DNA, have the same number of chromosomes, have the same codings for all the protiens, in the same places.......or put another way...they would have to be human.

That's just doing it the old-fashioned way. Aliens might also have technology that allows them to compensate for differences, adaptory DNA, a bunch of weirdness we wouldn't understand.

Svartalf wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:

Svartalf wrote:He means the jaliquette from the LotD gallery of Undead (and Dark Conversions)

That would be the one. Was unaware that it made it into Dark Conversions.

This being the Rifts thread, I took the Rifts angle.

Dark Conversions is also one of the many Rifts books I don't have and/or doesn't appeal to me. I'm not a big fan on the conversion/compilation books.

eliakon wrote:The prevailing suspicion is that an alien race will be even LESS genetically similar to humans than say....great apes, and since THOSE can't cross breed with humans, the idea that something else could is....iffy at best. They would have to have an identical bio-chemical base, use the same DNA, have the same number of chromosomes, have the same codings for all the protiens, in the same places.......or put another way...they would have to be human.

Well said.

I'm a fan of conversion/compilation books so long as they give material I don't already have. Having to get a book that's 90% reprints with a couple new stat updates or illustrations is kind of a downer sometimes though. Something like "buy the original conversion book, but make these changes" could've been more concise, wouldn't have minded the legwork.

Tor wrote:I'm a fan of conversion/compilation books so long as they give material I don't already have. Having to get a book that's 90% reprints with a couple new stat updates or illustrations is kind of a downer sometimes though. Something like "buy the original conversion book, but make these changes" could've been more concise, wouldn't have minded the legwork.

I'd love to see SDC and MDC stats given in the original entry for everything.

eliakon wrote:

Nightmaster wrote:Its funny that people here state science and munchkinism for the reasons for not allowing half-breeds of any kind...

Science is a cool thing and all but since humanity have yet to make contact and study another sentient lifeform outside of our planet, no scientist worth all his college years, Master and PhD degrees can say how likely or unlikely is for the human race to be able to have offsprings with a Alien race that we are yet to encounter. I am no scientist and my point is based on logic only so bear with me ok?.

If all the knowledge on biology that our civilization have is based only on our little planet and if we dont have yet found "Alien Lifeforms" to study or even visited other "planets with life", then how can we (me, you, a scientist or even Siembieda) state that the possibility for the human race to mix with another non-human race is zero?

Quoting the Greek Philosopher Socrates: "I know one thing: that I know nothing"


Munchkinism is only a concern if the GM dont understand the meaning of the word "half" of half-breed... if he does then he will not allow a player to make a half-demon/Asgardian Elf with the best of the both races.

The term Half-Breed already means a creature that have at best half of the capacities of both races, so in game terms its simple a matter of getting the info on each races, averaging theirs dice rollings for stats (rounding down of course) and deciding what the half-breed will have or not in terms of abilities and powers. Really simple and I doub it will be munchking at all.

The prevailing suspicion is that an alien race will be even LESS genetically similar to humans than say....great apes, and since THOSE can't cross breed with humans, the idea that something else could is....iffy at best. They would have to have an identical bio-chemical base, use the same DNA, have the same number of chromosomes, have the same codings for all the protiens, in the same places.......or put another way...they would have to be human.

That dont mean the possibility is zero or that this said race have to be human at all, only that it would need to have some specific similarities to human DNA that great apes dont. The end result could be a fully functional half-breed, a individual very similar to a mule and thus sterile or simple nothing. The key here is the possibility of encountering and alien race that is not human and still genetic compatible with us.

That said possibility, the chance of it, is the mystery here since the scientists (the serious ones) dont have data on alien lifeforms to compare to Earth lifeforms and thus being able to make a prediction on the likely or unlikely of encountering an alien race that is genetic compatible with us. They cant say that this possibility is 1%, 5%, 20%, 54,25789481328% or zero simply because they dont have the data for this.

Nightmaster wrote:The term Half-Breed already means a creature that have at best half of the capacities of both races, so in game terms its simple a matter of getting the info on each races, averaging theirs dice rollings for stats (rounding down of course) and deciding what the half-breed will have or not in terms of abilities and powers. Really simple and I doub it will be munchking at all.

That's not what that term means, it only means someone who is a mixed race compared to the original parent stock. It certainly doesn't mean that they have half the abilities of their parents' races. A half-breed would have some mixed abilities from either race depending on how dominant they were, but sci-fi and fantasy writers tend to standardize the abilities a particular racial half-breed would have.

Even if we look at half breeds in humanity, like say, with hemophilia, a trait can sometimes simply be present or absent, depending on whether a recessive gene occurs twice, rather than making an average.

Skraypers has three new breeds of humans

Nightmaster wrote:Its funny that people here state science and munchkinism for the reasons for not allowing half-breeds of any kind...

Science is a cool thing and all but since humanity have yet to make contact and study another sentient lifeform outside of our planet, no scientist worth all his college years, Master and PhD degrees can say how likely or unlikely is for the human race to be able to have offsprings with a Alien race that we are yet to encounter. I am no scientist and my point is based on logic only so bear with me ok?.

If all the knowledge on biology that our civilization have is based only on our little planet and if we dont have yet found "Alien Lifeforms" to study or even visited other "planets with life", then how can we (me, you, a scientist or even Siembieda) state that the possibility for the human race to mix with another non-human race is zero?

Quoting the Greek Philosopher Socrates: "I know one thing: that I know nothing"


Munchkinism is only a concern if the GM dont understand the meaning of the word "half" of half-breed... if he does then he will not allow a player to make a half-demon/Asgardian Elf with the best of the both races.

The term Half-Breed already means a creature that have at best half of the capacities of both races, so in game terms its simple a matter of getting the info on each races, averaging theirs dice rollings for stats (rounding down of course) and deciding what the half-breed will have or not in terms of abilities and powers. Really simple and I doub it will be munchking at all.

WITHIN the setting of Palladium Games, the Authors write from what might colloquially be called "God's Eye View."

Siembieda "knows" for certain that, apart from extraordinary magical or technological means, different races cannot interbreed and produce offspring because, as "God," he has written the rules to be that way and therefore his (fictional) universe also works according to the rules of 'biology' he has created, simple as that. Palladium Books produces role-playing games, not peer-reviewed papers on genetics and xenobiology.

(And kudos to the poster above who pointed out the intricacies and impossibilities involved in trying just to try and get 'close genetic ancestors' to produce offspring, forget species from other planets who might not even have the same carbon-base as we do whether they look like us or not.)

God's eye in CB of 'no crossbreeds' was clearly contradicted by actual gods who can actually interbreed with humans (and probably any other moral race) though. Not only did he allow Pantheons to be published, but he allowed the Demigod RCC to be used in Splynn Dimensional Market. Can't recall if it's appeared other places.