Nightfactory wrote:Pepsi Jedi wrote:I couldn't disagree more, it's one of the better books they've produced.
We will definitely have to disagree on that.
Doesn't hurt my feelings. Your perception of things seems very limited.
Nightfactory wrote: While I admit I don't like producing a world book in the 30s, with purposefully weaker bots and stuff, "In the Rifts World" it is what it is. I.E. in Rifts, Northern Gun is 5 to 10 years behind the CS and Traix. They're also, as a point a civilian producer of weapons and stuff. the CS and Traix are not. Nor is Northern Gun as big as the CS or the NGR. So the bots and what not in the book aren't going to be better than military vehicles produced by countries many times their size for their standing armies of MILLIONS.
Most of the bots have lousy MDC, underpowered weapons, and bad design. Not just from a Stat standpoint, but also from a playability standpoint (I will give examples farther down). Most Black Market bots are better than NG, though the BM has arguably a lot less finances and production ability than NG. That doesn't make any sense
Just because you don't like them, doesn't make them bad. The underpowered weapons are there on purpose. I went into the why's already.
The BM don't make that many robots. Some sure, but not an entire catalog of them.
Nightfactory wrote: Not for nothing but "Power Creep" has been vilified in rifts books for years and years. Every new book coming out having stronger weapons and stuff. people have complained about that for years and years. This book avoided that. It's been a huge complaint of players. Power creep gets brought up all the time and people never stop complaining about it. This book avoided it, and avoided it for a good in game reason.
I hear people talk about that
occasionally online but 'power creep' has never been an issue in any of the games I've run or played in.
I'm not trying to be mean in any way, but I can tell. Many of your statements show this. You seem to prefer the other way. Which some do. Some people want bigger guns with more dice every book. I've met them. I know they exist. They tend to only care about the guns and bots and stuff and skip, as you did, the 100 pages of content previous.
I'm not going to say my way is 'better'. It's different.
I will say that many that I play with (And many here) look down on those that only want the biggest, baddest, most powerful (Whatever). I'm sure those that play that way, look down on those of us that write detailed character histories and like the settings and read them and try and make a character that fits in with the settings and not just 'Absolute top numbers for everything' types.
Nightfactory wrote:
If you have a good GM, power creep is not an issue.
Likewise, if you have a good GM, underpowered weapons arn't an issue either. The GM fixes it on the fly. Or sits down and fixes it before hand. Ask Jaymz. lol he restats alot of stuff.
Nightfactory wrote: The OOC's have worth. Not all are front line combat ones but I found them useful. The monster control one was really fun, as were the NG black ops.
Nobody is ever going to play an LPO or a NG Sales Rep. Nobody.
Wrong. As I pointed out why in the previous post. You're just bold face wrong. I've played the eqivilent of an LPO in the past, and once NG2 comes out, Iplan on playing an 'official' one in our next Rifts game. The same group that was based out of NG for years, before the books came out, is getting back together with the books in hand. We're waiting for the 2nd one, because we tend to use power armor and vehicles more than giant robots, but not only would I play one. I'm planning on playing one. One or two others in the group likely will too, though some of them are eyeing the monster responder.
Nightfactory wrote:
Also the Bush Pilot, Monster Responder, and Police OCCs have nothing special to attract anyone to them.
Again this was addressed in the previous post, but you're wrong. Far wrong. They may not attract you and your buddies, but they have qualities that are very useful. From the above statements, again, it's pretty clear your style of play. They may not be as attractive to you, but you're making sweeping statements I know are untrue, if for nothing else, I myself prove them false.
Nightfactory wrote:
The only new OCC worth anything is the Robot Control OCC because its special abilities are really great.
Again, wrong, but the way you've presented yourself and your views of the game, I see why you would incorrectly claim that. You can't use absolutes when talking to a group of people, when you're only speaking as to your own preference.
Nightfactory wrote: Ever price a 'real' train? They're expensive. And that's not in a post apocalyptic world setting, or trains that don't need tracks and can travel cross country.
Your rebuttal really doesn't address the weapon cost infalation issue that I brought up.
It addresses it because they're ungodly expensive.
Nightfactory wrote: Nightfactory wrote:
Why would anybody spend millions when you can get the same thing or almost the same thing for under 100,000?
That's not a fault of "NG1" That's a fault of "Rifts". You see it all over rifts. Troops with assult rifles that do as much or more damage than 20 foot long tank cannons. That's a setting flaw. One that's been addressed for .. well. Decades of time IRL. It's just one of the weird things about Palladium/Rifts. Different GM's handle it different ways. But it's not an "NG sucks because it's like this" you see it all over the Rifts setting.
Yes, it is a problem in many of the Rifts books, but it's especially absurd in this case. For the cost of a single Light Laser Cannon (3D6 @ 2,000,000 credits), you could buy 32 NG-SSL20 rifles which have the same range but do over twice as much dammage (6D6+6). Also, calling a weapon that does only 3D6 a "cannon" is more than just a little bit ridiculous. [/quote]
I don't disagree that the "Large" and "Vehicle" Weapons in Rifts are drastically underpowered in most cases. Including these. I'm just pointing out that it's nothing new and is SYSTEM WIDE. Not just in NG. It'd be weirder, if they were NOT like that in NG. That they are, is just par for the course. We adjust them up accordingly. A cannon that needs a giant hover train to carry it should do many times the damage of a man portable assault rifle. No doubt. That goes for all rifts weapons though. There's that power creep edging in.
There's factors that aren't being factored in.
1) Most people have no way to get CS or NGR bots. Why? Because they're the bots of Standing military forces. If the CS catch you in a CS bot, you're a red mist in the air. If other allied nations catch you in a CS bot, well they might not vape you on sight, but they're not going to want you to hang around, least a CS patrol come by and catch you.
Not true. For example, in
Rifts Mercenaries, Crow's Commandos (p.61) have 8 Triax Ulti-Max. Braddock's Bad Boys have 10 UAR-1 Enforcers, 8 Triax X-500 Foragers, 10 Triax X-10 Predators, and 8 Triax Ultimax. [/quote]
Those aren't your player characters, and none of those listed are the new CS stuff or the new Traix stuff. You're talking about NPC groups. I'm pointing out the guy with some money in his pocket going to buy a robot, isn't very likely to be able to buy Standing Military Robots from the Robot store. If you DO, you face the consequences of being caught in them.
Nightfactory wrote:
Larsen's Brigade has 1 Death Head Transport (!), 22 CS Sky Cycles, 36 CS Mark-5 APCs, 40 CS SAMAS, 30 Triax X-10s, 30 Triax X-100s, 20 Triax X-500s, 16 CS UAR-1s, and 16 CS Spider walkers. If these groups can go around with such a mix of CS & Triax gear, so can anybody else.
I suggest you actually read the write up on Larsen's Brigade, to understand why they're the exception to the rule. And... again. Not for nothing. Your group isn't as good as the biggest and best Merc army out there.
Nightfactory wrote: So while you can compare NG stuff to CS stuff, it's like comparing a civilian armored car maker to a US battle tank. (( not quite 100% dead on but the point is made))
So why bother buying any NG stuff then when you can get better bots and vehicles
at a much lower cost from someone else?
Because you typically can't. If you live in the CS you're not going to use a stolen CS bot, or you could be vaporized any second of any day. Traix stuff is expensive and hard to get ahold of in NA. You may have the option of Black Market stuff but.. that's black Market stuff. You might get good stuff. You might get knock offs. You might get knifed and robbed. Again if you live in the CS. They can come and just take your stuff and maybe kill you. Wilks weapons are even outlawed now, they get confiscated and you might get a beating for having them. Naurni get you instantly vaporized.
NG? They sell everything. "Legally". You want a waffle iron, you can probably get one in the NG store. You want a 40 foot tall combat robot, you can get one from the NG store too. (They might have to fly it in. Such things might not always be in stock, depending on your store.) Are you going to find CS military gear at the CS gear store? Oh? There's no CS gear store? It's illegal? *nods* Yeah...
Now, not everone plays in North America. That's fine. But the point is about Northern Gun, who's main market is North America. If your'e in Japan, you likely won't find many NG weapons for sale, but that's not really what we're talking about.
Having an NG weapon in north America isn't a death sentence, from the CS, who have -millions of troops- and how go far far out side the CS boarders as well.
Nightfactory wrote: 2) You are acting like they're not of use. They very much are. And you can own them legally and not get vaprorized on sight by the CS. The 'people' of Rifts earth that are not 'protected' by the CS, want to have their MD bots and guns and gear and such. The NG stuff stands up very well in that setting. The Black Market stuff doesn't better them in bots. Few compaines do. Naurni stuff has it's own laundry list of problems (Including getting you killed by the CS OR NG.)
The whole linchpin of your argument is that the "CS will get ya", but if that's true then how have all these other armament companies stayed in business all these years?
There's not that many, and they act illegally. Your arguement is sort of like "Well if Drugs are illegal and you get locked up if you're caught, how come people still buy and use drugs" Well they do, they just get locked up if they're caught.
Difference being... "Locked up" vs "Vaporized"
Nightfactory wrote:
Obviously the CS is not a deterent toward buying other stuff.
You find it in those sections of the book with out stats, that you skip over.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/smile.gif)
The CS is a deterrent to buying other stuff. Ask the Naurni. NG basicly "Sicked" the CS on them and they were obliterated. Sure they've come back but in secret with like a dozen traveling vendors for the entire planet? With one store in merc town? Being vaporized on sight is an awesome reason not to carry a thing.
Do some GM's not play that out? Sure. That's a flaw of the GM ignoring the setting though. (Or one deciding to change the setting. Which is fine, but you're no longer playing by Canon. Which is also fine, but you can't claim that something is one way, if you have to change Canon to get it there.)
Nightfactory wrote:
Also, the CS is not everywhere. I don't know where your games take place, but mine are all over the world (Rifts Earth) and in many dimensions.
If my PCs are exploring the Amazon river area, the last thing they're going to be worried about is the CS showing and nailing them for using Naruni or Kittani weapons.
I addressed this above but it holds true. You're right. But we're not talking about the Multiverse. We're discussing NG and their typical sales areas. You'd still be much more likely to find NG weapons in the Amazon than a CS one.
NG is in NA, their main sales location is NA. We're talking about the NG book, so it's pretty safe to say we're talking aboout NG and where NG sales their stuff.
Nightfactory wrote: Unless you're planning on knocking off a Military with Millions of Troops and a known attitude that's less than friendly, you need a place to buy your MD gear and weapons. you have realitivly few choices, NG is the biggest and most wide spread of those choices with good reliable gear.
No, the Black Market is. They are everywhere, but the NG is isolated in one small part of the world.
The black market sells NG stuff too.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/smile.gif)
, more over, they produce their own stuff now too. You might find the odd CS weapon there but it's not going to be the majority. If nothing else, it's better for them not to sell CS stuff. If a CS patrol comes by an stepps into their traveling store, and sees CS weapons on the wall. That's a dead Black Marketeer. If they step into the store and see NG stuff on the wall. Not an instant death sentence (Might still end up dead, but it's not assured)
Again, if you read the first 100 pages of the book you seem to have skipped, you'd know that NG's reach is long, and they sell all over NA. Same place the Black Market tends to sell to.
Nightfactory wrote: Well maybe you skipped the first 100 pages that were setting? Which was quite good. I live here. lol. I loved seeing my home in the book, but more over it was useful. There is plenty to work with.
It seems very much you skipped that. (as you made no reference to it at all and focused 100% on stats.) Which is a failing in you as a GM. If all you need is numbers, you don't need more books. Just make up what ever numbers you want that make you feel good. The setting information, was excellent in the book.
Well, actually, I just mentioned the train weapon stats as
just one example and I said that in my OP. There's a TON of other things wrong with NG1. Here's just a few more examples:
It seems my observation was correct. You just go straight to the stats. Read the book Nightfactory. It explains much of the stuff you're confused by.
Nightfactory wrote:
01. EX-9 Behemoth Super-Explorer
First, the illustration itself is way, way over-detailed.
The art is TOO good? Interesting complaint. LOL
Nightfactory wrote: I had to look at it several times to determine if it had three legs or four; the left front leg is almost completely hidden.
Art is subjective, but your lack of perception doesn't make it bad. I loved the pic when I saw it. It's an awesome lookin' mech.
Nightfactory wrote:
Second, nobody will ever be able to afford it at 142,000,000 credits.
Why? Because you say so? It's not meant to be a personal hotrod by one character toolin' around town. It's meant to be a moble base for a larger group or unit. A group of mercs could pool their money and buy one. It's not cheep by any means but it's not absurdly expensive either. If 20 guys went in together it's alot cheaper. Again, not something you just buy on a whim, but moble bases don't come cheep. It's not targeted at single person buiers, or small groups of 4 or 5. It's targeted at groups of 20 to 40. But more accurately likely groups even larger than that, that use it as a moble base and travel around 'with' it. If you can afford to buy one, you've got dozens of other vehicles that your group is also moving around in/with.
Nightfactory wrote:
Third, nobody would buy one anyways (in game play) because it's fairly useless: it's a huge, slow target with minimal weapons and most actual players and GMs concentrate on combat when it comes to bots, not going around exploring in a science lab
You again use words like "nobody would buy one anyway because it's fairly useless" as it has minimal weapons. This again shows your style of play. You're not the only one that playss that way, but your way, is not the ONLY way. That vehicle is very much loved by fans. lol Check out the other NG1 threads. People love that thing. Many saying they've waited years for the exact sort of thing that it is. It's not meant to be a front line combat robot. It's meant to be a mobile base of operations for much larger units.
Not everyone that plays only cares about guns and missiles Nightfactory. Some of us actually do go exploring in science labs. I played a game once where our group worked for a food company in NG. We went down to Dino Swamp to hunt, kill and slaughter, Dinosaurs for their 'Dino-Burger' restaurants.
Nightfactory wrote:
02. Gunner in unprotected mount on outside of bot (Bigfoot, Bulldog, Okemos)
Those have been explained by the artist.
Nightfactory wrote:
Dumbest idea ever. What a great way to get targeted by snipers, hit by mini-missile explosions, and to leave yourself undefended if someone boards the bot.
Ever see a humvee with a turret? Or a battle tank with a machine gun on top? MDC armor helps alot against snipers. (it's almost impossible for a 'one shot one kill' option with man portable weapons if the guy is in MDC armor) And if someone's throwing missiles, that guy might just duck inside the robot till missles stop flying around. lol.
Not every engagement is against forces that have missiles. Some are monster fights, some are against much less armed opponents, etc.
Granted, I'd much rather not be the guy on the outside gun, but they have uses. Robot vechiles have blind spots that can be exploited. Eyes on the out side help to minimize that.
Nightfactory wrote: If I was fighting an Okemos, the first thing I'd do is jump on the roof and stick a vibroblade in the gunner; he can't dodge. Instead of this, why not just have a fully-enclosed turret?
What about the 3000 meters of range do you have to cross before you get with in range to try that? You can jump 20 feet up? While dodging fire from all the weapons or getting caught by one of the arms? That's if you're not kicked out of the air? That's if they don't open up on you from a mile out with the mini missles.
You say you'd stick a vibro knife in the gunner. You realize if they can afford an 11,000,000 to 14,000,000 bot, that they can afford MD armor right? you some how manage to get past all the weapons on foot. (( not impossible. Just not as easy as saying "I'd run and jump on top of it") Manage to jump 20 feet up on a moving bot. Avoiding all the weapons and arms and stuff at point blank range.. and go to stab the guy in the fourteen million dollar robot.. you're going to find he's in EVA armor. Smirks at you and draws a pistol and shoots you in the face. That's if he doesn't just swing the turret like a 10 foot long baseball bat and send you flying.
You say 'He can't dodge" but you don't know that. The entire bot coudl dodge. The gunner could smack you with the gun, or parry your attack with an arm. Or lean to the side.
Your plan only is insured of success if both the pilot and the gunner are asleep and not in armor. Other wise, they have alot of options to ... talk you out of your planned course of action.
is it impossible? no. A juicer or something might pull it off, but it's not a 'given', and if the pilot and gunner are awake, they're going to use those missles and cannons and arms and what not to try and stop you.
Nightfactory wrote:
03. Glass pilot compartment (Beachmaster, Behemoth, Bulldog, Gunwolf, Megabot, Ogre, Okemos, Skorpion, Thundercaster)
Absolutely nothing dangerous about this.
MD Glass. We've had it in Rifts for decades. Move along.
Nightfactory wrote:
04. MMB-01 "Big Papa" and MMB-02 "Junior"
Nobody will ever pilot either of these bots in an actual game.
YOU may not. Other's might. Again these are two of the bots that many fans loved and appreciated when the books came out. Many people wanted bots other than "100% front line combat bots" These have their place.
I don't much like them, but I won't claim I know everyone's mind. Again, go check some of the NG1 threads. Those bots were well received by some.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/smile.gif)
Nightfactory wrote:
05. Extremely low MDC in some bots
Bigfoot (450), Bruiser (420), Gunbot (390). A full-conversion borg with heavy body armor is tougher than any of these. Also, ironically, the Bulldog is an explorer, but it has more MDC than the Gunwolf which is a combat bot.
These have been addressed a number of times before.
Nightfactory wrote:
06. Illustration issues
As shown on the Grizzly, the "Armor Buster" laser cannon wouldn't be able to raise itself to a level firing position because the left forearm weapon would block it.
..... Or it could pivot around the back and over the top to achieve firing position. Or, the robot could twist or bend his left arm? Come on man. Hold your arms out straight. Palms facing each other. Now.. rotate your arms and hands till your hands point down.
See how easy that is?
Nightfactory wrote:
The hovertrain only has one laser cannon on the right side? What if someone attacks them from the front on the left side? Note, if you look careful at the illustration, you can see the tip of a 2nd laser cannon pointing on the right side, but the illustrator and the description writer apparently didn't communicate.
The hover trains have interchangeable cars depending on need and what not. More over they don't travel alone. Did you happen to see all the bots and stuff flying around with it? Worth way too much money to send out alone.
Nightfactory wrote:
NG-SE17 Laser Carbine (p.196) clearly has two e-clip ports on the illustration, but only one port in the description.
One might not be an eclip port. One could just be storage. One of my shotguns has a port where I can slide in extra shells. That doesn't mean they're loaded into the gun. The eclip you see furthest to the rear could just be stored there. To load it into the rifle you drop the front eclip. Pull the second one from the bracket and slap it in. (( I don't like that art myself, but it doesn't HAVE to be like you're suspecting. I could just be a storage place for an extra eclip)
Nightfactory wrote:
The NG Solar Mini-Laser (p.197) says it can take a standard e-clip. Exactly where do plug it in?
In the eclip port.
Nightfactory wrote:
07. The new Megabot is worse than the original Multibot
Weapons systems are almost exactly the same, though the Megabot has additional short-range missles and the Tri-Barrel cannon.
Original: 290 MDC without flyer. Megabot: 160 MDC without flyer.
Original flyer: 240mph @ 10,000 feet. Megabot flyer: 250mph @ 500 feet.
Also, as pointed out in the text, the Megabot's main gun can't be used most of the time if connected, and the front of the megabot
gives other bots something to grab onto.
08. Blocker Combat Robot's shield
How exactly does this work in game terms? Are we to believe that this clunky bot is fast enought parry mini-missiles?
I imagine you use it, like a shield. With radar and what not, and robot reflexes, combat programs that carry out movement and what not, it could be as simple as hitting a button or even a verbal command. Your threat screen might light up with a red triangle and you could hit one button with a macro that tells the bot to shield front. Shield right. Shield Left. Shield front left, shield front right, etc.
I play Wow. Macros are not that hard to develop. hell they could have "Controllers' Like a video game where they hit the joystick in one direction and hit a button and the bot yanks the shield around to cover that area.
Nightfactory wrote:
09. Most Bot Weapons Range Tops Out at 1600 feet
Not at all. Just in the one with the turrent you said you'd run and make a 20 foot jump onto, had missiles that could reach a mile and a weapon that could reach out 3000 feet.
Beach master has torpedoes that can reach a mile, Missiles that can reach a mile, a rail cannon that reaches 4,000 ft
Behemoth has missiles that can reach a mile,
Super behemoth, Rail gun 4,000 ft, Missile launchers, don't have range on them but all the others reach at least a mile
Bigfoot: Plasma cannon, 2,000 ft, Secondary defence, missiles, 1 mile, Laser cannon, 4000 ft, Missile launcher, 5 miles,
Bison: No weapons over 1,600 ft
Blocker: Laser turret, 3,000 ft,Chest missiles, 1 mile,
Bruiser: Mini Missiles, 1 mile,
Buffalo: Missiles, 1 mile,
Bulldog: Main gun turret, 3,000 ft, Rail gun 4,000 ft, Missiles, varies but a mile or more.
Gunbot: Nose gun 5,000 ft,/1,800 ft, Missiles, 1 mile, Grenade cannon 1,800 ft
So out of the first ten bots, Only one bot had weapons that didn't reach out over 1,600 feet. The one bot in the first 10 that came from gladiator rings. Still 9 out of the first 10 had at least one weapon that can reach over 1,600 ft, often they have weapons that can reach a mile. I could go all the way through but I think 9 out of the first 10, prove you wrong.
Nightfactory wrote:
Why?
Because.... You're wrong.
Nightfactory wrote:
10. Cover illustration discrepancy
Why is there a Ogre exploration bot fighting a dragon? Bad choice for the cover.
Because sometimes a dragon shows up, and the ones there have an Ogre along? It's not like the dragon would fly down and then pause and go "Oh. Pardon me, but the Ogre isn't optimized to kill me. Would you like to return to your base, perhaps 100s of miles away and get a bot to better kill me?"
Sometimes they're just like "RAR!! BITES THE FACE!!!" and you make do with what you happen to have. lol
Nightfactory wrote:
11. Seasnake Series weapons are pointless and have crappy dammage
They have a point. Just not one you might use.
"In a bid to dig into its competitors’ pockets, Northern Gun has introduced the Seasnake line of energy weapons. Based off the company’s earlier blue-green laser designs, each Seasnake is powered by a low-cost capacitor and energy refraction system that produces blue-green laser light. Every Seasnake laser
weapon works when submerged and has vents that allow water to drain when the weapon is brought onto dry land."
There's your point. To dig into competitors pockets, and to produce a line of blue-green lasers that work under water. This was addressed way back in Rifts undersees.
You may notice, if you look, Northern Gun is located in the Upper Pennisula of Michigan. Sandwiched between two great lakes. There's alot of water up here.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/smile.gif)
They're pretty too. You may also notice, that most of the cities, are along the shores. There's many reasons for that, but.. well yeah. We have alot of water here and in Rifts, the water is still there and sometimes things happen on or under it.
Nightfactory wrote: Many other books have blue-green lasers so this is nothing new. The dammage they do is terrible: 1D4+1, 2D4+2, 3D4+3, 1D6+4. Only the SE17 (3D6) and SE20 (3D6+4) do any decent damage.
And 22 pistols don't do as much damage as .50s. They still sell 100s of 22 pistols for ever .50. Out side of role playing games, not everyone buys the absolute biggest gun in the world every time. Guns are bought for 100s of different reason. Not the least of which is 'What feels good in your hand" an "what you're using them for". I have..... some firearms. None of which are the absolute biggest on the market. I have .38's .40s, 12 gauge, 5.56, .308. There's bigger pistols and rifles. I chose my guns for other reasons than "It's the biggest"
Again, the way you play, isn't the way that everyone plays.
Nightfactory wrote:
12. Strange additional text regarding Particle Beam weapons
The PB713, P5, P7, P9, and P85 all have a note next to the damage: "Vampires, werebeasts, and mummies are impervious."
First, DUH.
Second, should we assume that all the other NG weapons do affect these creatures since there is no disclaimer next to them? Why even bother to mention this at all?
Welcome to Palladium books. lol Their editing is not the best in the business, and they looooove their Cut and Paste.
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/smile.gif)
But that's a "Palladium books" thing. Not a "Northern gun" thing or even a 'Rifts" thing. That's company wide.
Nightfactory wrote: As for the bots, well those are to taste, but your complaint seems to boil down to "The new book didn't have stronger bots than the books that came before it. So there's nothing there for me to use" Well A) They weren't supposed to be stronger than the CS or NGR stuff, and B) By comparing them to such you're already stacking the deck against NG.
Most of the NG bots are undergunned and underarmored next to just about everything else on Rifts Earth.
naaa. You just don't like um. Heck you make claims that aren't even remotely true about them like the above range issue.
Are their weapons underpowered for big ol robots? Sure, but that's a "Rifts System Wide" thing, and easy enough to fix if you choose to. It's not something only found in NG1
Nightfactory wrote:
For what they cost, anybody is better off buying something decent rather than a walking death-trap from NG.
Support your statement?
Nightfactory wrote: *Shrugs* But yeah, if all you're doing is looking at stats and ignoring the setting, and what the stat's are attached to, you're going to be disappointed.
Players tend to look at the stats, and that's my concern with NG1.
Some look at the setting and the world they're playing in as well.
Not you, but some do.
They get the entire picture. You get the stats. If you ignore all the setting and the reasoning and the explinations on the power levels and JUST look at the stats, you're not going to get it. The power level and stuff are actually directly addressed in the book a number of times. It's not the books fault you won't read it.
Nightfactory wrote:
I can't imagine anybody actually wanting to buy a NG bot or weapon because they're simply too wimpy.
[/quote]
Then your imagination is severly limited. The book got glowing reviews for the most part. You don't like it. That's clear. The reviews aren't Universal. There's been a couple that don't like it. Can't please everyone.
Thing is your complaints don't really match what's in the book, or the ones that are valid, are true of the majority of rifts books. Not just this one.
many of your points just are not true, like the range issue, like the "Noone would play this or that" when I for one have and plan to again play exactly those.
It might not shine to --your play style--. Which is fine. Reading your post it's pretty clear what you care about when you play. That's fine. You are --not-- the only one. There are many that share your style.
But not all. Not universally. Many do not play the way you do. You can't apply your some what... tail end of the bell curve, for everyone, and claim that "Noone" will do this or the like. You can say "I would never use this bot, and here's why" but you can't say "Noone would ever use this thing" or "noone would ever play this class" Again, I'm just one guy but I prove you wrong on some of those statements. So of two people there's at least one person that WOULD play the classes you don't like. And that's just out of a pool of two.