Forums of the Megaverse®

Defender - Raidar X in old RPG, Rifleman in Battletech
Tomahawk - Excalibur in old RPG, Warhammer or Warhammer IIC in Battletech
Spartan - Gladiator in old RPG, Archer in Battletech
Phalanx - Spartan in old RPG, Longbow in Battletech
Monster - Mac II in old RPG, Behemoth in Batteldroids (precursor to Battletech)
VF-1A Valkyrie - Stinger in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
VF-1S Valkyrie - Wasp in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
VF-1A Valkyrie - Stinger LAM in Battletech (All three modes)
VF-1S Valkyrie - Wasp LAM in Battletech (All three modes)
Super VF-1S Valkyrie - Phoenix Hawk in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
Super VF-1S Valkyrie - Phoenix Hawk LAM in Battletech (All three modes)
Armoured Valkyrie - Crusader in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
Regult Tactical Battle Pod - Used as a pseudo basis for the Ostscout, Ostroc and Ostol
Glaug Officer Battlepod- Marauder and Maruader II in Battletech

Compiled by Jaymz

So... for the vaguely curious who never bothered to look it up due to tremendous apathy on the subject, why exactly did the Macross mecha end up with incorrect names in 1e? Most of the art books Palladium would've had access to print the names in English...

I don't really care about that. I'd actually like this to get Stickied so people that aren't used to the change can use it for easy reference.

http://www.palladium-megaverse.com/foru ... view=print

The answer?

wow, a blast from the past...

the 1st ed names came from early robotech toy sales.. when matchbox started making toys, they were never given the macross names for the units, so they just made up their own. later those names found their way into most of the merchandising, mostly by dint of brand recognition.

other than the addition of the "-X" in the Raider-X, the names aren't bad. personally i'd use them with 1st ed's "REF destroids" if they were ever brought into 2nd ed. i'd just drop the "X" from the Raider, and change the missile mecha over to "Shark" due to the overlap.

i do like the Macross names for the canon destroids though.

glitterboy2098 wrote:wow, a blast from the past...

the 1st ed names came from early robotech toy sales.. when matchbox started making toys, they were never given the macross names for the units, so they just made up their own. later those names found their way into most of the merchandising, mostly by dint of brand recognition.

other than the addition of the "-X" in the Raider-X, the names aren't bad. personally i'd use them with 1st ed's "REF destroids" if they were ever brought into 2nd ed. i'd just drop the "X" from the Raider, and change the missile mecha over to "Shark" due to the overlap.

i do like the Macross names for the canon destroids though.

Still remember looking for those original Matchbox models when they first came out...first they were sold out in my area, then later I lost an entire order when the college mailroom got vandalized and, when ordering replacements, my original picks(the Excaliber/Tomahawk and the Gladiator/Spartan) were no longer available...had to settle for the Spartan/Phalanx and Invid Gurab(yes, the wimpiest of the entire line).

they crop up on ebay frequetly. i got a Tomahawk that way. been meaning to find some of the others at some point.

Do you think Palladium books would do a better job with Battletech?

gaby wrote:Do you think Palladium books would do a better job with Battletech?

hell no.. i don;t think Palladium's approach to doing things would mesh well with the battletech setting.

Jorel wrote:Defender - Raidar X in old RPG, Rifleman in Battletech
Tomahawk - Excalibur in old RPG, Warhammer or Warhammer IIC in Battletech
Spartan - Gladiator in old RPG, Archer in Battletech
Phalanx - Spartan in old RPG, Longbow in Battletech
Monster - Mac II in old RPG, Behemoth in Batteldroids (precursor to Battletech)
VF-1A Valkyrie - Stinger in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
VF-1S Valkyrie - Wasp in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
VF-1A Valkyrie - Stinger LAM in Battletech (All three modes)
VF-1S Valkyrie - Wasp LAM in Battletech (All three modes)
Super VF-1S Valkyrie - Phoenix Hawk in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
Super VF-1S Valkyrie - Phoenix Hawk LAM in Battletech (All three modes)
Armoured Valkyrie - Crusader in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
Regult Tactical Battle Pod - Used as a pseudo basis for the Ostscout, Ostroc and Ostol
Glaug Officer Battlepod- Marauder and Maruader II in Battletech

Compiled by Jaymz

I like to think of the 1st ed names as the pilot and work crew nicknames for these machines.

You might want to know theve added more RT / Macross Mecha too BT. Operation rebirth gave us newer versions of the classics like the "Marauder IIC 2" its armed with two Heavy Large LASERs, two medium er pulse LASERs, and a Clan ER Large LASER." Theirs other loadouts as well. My Steel Viper pilot uses a Marauder IIC 2 armed with 7 Heavy Large LASERs and some LASER heatsinks. I call it "Purple Death."

You forgot the Ostscout, Ostroc and the Ostsol from Battletech; they were based of the of the Zentraedi Battle-Pods.

actually the IIC's are totally new artwork, much like the reseen's introduced in Project Pheonix.

though later the original IIC's were given new reseen artwork as well, for an unrelated reaso. (the original artwork had been farmed out to an art studio, and when the rights went from FASAto catalyst games, there was some question as to whether the rights to those images came with the overall battletech rights, or not. the contracts involved were vague on the issue, so catalyst decided to err on the side of caution.)

glitterboy2098 wrote:actually the IIC's are totally new artwork, much like the reseen's introduced in Project Pheonix.

though later the original IIC's were given new reseen artwork as well, for an unrelated reaso. (the original artwork had been farmed out to an art studio, and when the rights went from FASAto catalyst games, there was some question as to whether the rights to those images came with the overall battletech rights, or not. the contracts involved were vague on the issue, so catalyst decided to err on the side of caution.)

Project Phoenix art...*shudder*. The art belongs to the minimalist school of 'Okay, it's got the right number of arms and guns and it's easy to cast, so why wait any longer?'.

well, they had to make sure the macross related designs looked enough different.. while legally i think it's been said 80% the same is fine.. with art that % is even more subjective than normal so they went for as different as they could while still being visually related.

I've still got my Officer's Battle Pod, the only thing in the model/ toy series I ever bought.
I have a few metal minis for the BattleTech game, though, and always played a Marauder pilot.

Fenris2020 wrote:I've still got my Officer's Battle Pod, the only thing in the model/ toy series I ever bought.
I have a few metal minis for the BattleTech game, though, and always played a Marauder pilot.

I have tons of painted metal miniatures for Battletech; a company of Robotech-style mechs, a platoon of Kurita soldiers and lots more (mostly AD&D). In high-school, I was good and painting and I am still good and seeing small details and objects.

And yes, I still have my officer's BP; I did have a Battle-pod, but I have no idea what happened to it.

PB cant do mini combat well. We'd be better off switching to Mekton.

It may not do actual mini combat well but minis are still viable for relative positioning and such...

As for using Mekton....problem there is the scaling. MDC effectively makes everything x1 scale, from lowly body armour to the Monster to the Cyclones, in Mekton unless whoever is doing it decides to do away with that fact and make it as they see fit.

Same goes for if you want to use the old West End Games d6 Star Wars miniature battles or Battletech Alpha Strike, both of which are easy enough to arbitrarily make stats for everything but again you run into how do you treat MDC which I guarantee will run afoul of SOMEONE in your game group.

Hell I could cobble together stats for doing Rifts or Robotech using Warhammer 40k easily enough.

That all said I have done bits and pieces in all but 40k for Rifts or Robotech and I know of someone who has done some Robotech using 40k. The issue would be if you agree with how the person making has done it.

All 4 rule sets can work for miniatures combat if that is what you are looking for.

Zer0 Kay wrote:PB cant do mini combat well. We'd be better off switching to Mekton.

I recommend Mekton, but, I have Mekton II, and it's written as if Maximum-Mike was doing meth when he wrote it; I also have Votoms, which is easier to understand when reading the rules.

Votoms is just a derivative version of Mekton zeta with a few hero system character elements thrown in.

PM as I might be able to direct yoibgwtying the mz stuff

jaymz wrote:Votoms is just a derivative version of Mekton zeta with a few hero system character elements thrown in.

PM as I might be able to direct yoibgwtying the mz stuff

Major diff, circ bottoms doesnt have mzp.

I wish they actually got the Gundam game produced. Not that they cant be made with map but still.

jaymz wrote:Votoms is just a derivative version of Mekton zeta with a few hero system character elements thrown in.

It was produced by R.Talsorian as well.

gaby wrote:Do you think Palladium books would do a better job with Battletech?

couldn't do worse ... (oh, wait, that can be taken two ways ... eh, go ahead )

Jorel wrote:Defender - Raidar X in old RPG, Rifleman in Battletech
Tomahawk - Excalibur in old RPG, Warhammer or Warhammer IIC in Battletech
Spartan - Gladiator in old RPG, Archer in Battletech
Phalanx - Spartan in old RPG, Longbow in Battletech
Monster - Mac II in old RPG, Behemoth in Batteldroids (precursor to Battletech)
VF-1A Valkyrie - Stinger in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
VF-1S Valkyrie - Wasp in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
VF-1A Valkyrie - Stinger LAM in Battletech (All three modes)
VF-1S Valkyrie - Wasp LAM in Battletech (All three modes)
Super VF-1S Valkyrie - Phoenix Hawk in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
Super VF-1S Valkyrie - Phoenix Hawk LAM in Battletech (All three modes)
Armoured Valkyrie - Crusader in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
Regult Tactical Battle Pod - Used as a pseudo basis for the Ostscout, Ostroc and Ostol
Glaug Officer Battlepod- Marauder and Maruader II in Battletech

Compiled by Jaymz

Actually the Warhammer IIC was specifically intended NOT to be the Robotech mech, though with similar weapons layout for player recognition.
You forgot about the VF-1J Valkyrie - VLK-QA Valkyrie (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Valkyrie).
also the Regult Tactical Battle Podis the basis for the Ostol. the Ostscout is the Recon-Scout-Pod and the Ostroc is the Heavy-Artillery-Pod - for the version with the 4-pack on the shoulders and Light-AP for the ugly version with the hand launchers (though all of these are heavily modified due to needing heads and arms for BT).

glitterboy2098 wrote:wow, a blast from the past...

the 1st ed names came from early robotech toy sales.. when matchbox started making toys, they were never given the macross names for the units, so they just made up their own. later those names found their way into most of the merchandising, mostly by dint of brand recognition.

other than the addition of the "-X" in the Raider-X, the names aren't bad. personally i'd use them with 1st ed's "REF destroids" if they were ever brought into 2nd ed. i'd just drop the "X" from the Raider, and change the missile mecha over to "Shark" due to the overlap.

i do like the Macross names for the canon destroids though.

What's wrong with the X - I like the X - model 10 or "X"

glitterboy2098 wrote:well, they had to make sure the macross related designs looked enough different.. while legally i think it's been said 80% the same is fine.. with art that % is even more subjective than normal so they went for as different as they could while still being visually related.

I read it was "6 things different".

Peacebringer wrote:

Fenris2020 wrote:I've still got my Officer's Battle Pod, the only thing in the model/ toy series I ever bought.
I have a few metal minis for the BattleTech game, though, and always played a Marauder pilot.

I have tons of painted metal miniatures for Battletech; a company of Robotech-style mechs, a platoon of Kurita soldiers and lots more (mostly AD&D). In high-school, I was good and painting and I am still good and seeing small details and objects.

And yes, I still have my officer's BP; I did have a Battle-pod, but I have no idea what happened to it.

I have about a regiment I think (4 regiments total including new stuff but I would have to check totals) though some of that is Plastechs (which the original RT/BTs were really good for plastic)

gmg4rwf wrote:

Jorel wrote:Defender - Raidar X in old RPG, Rifleman in Battletech
Tomahawk - Excalibur in old RPG, Warhammer or Warhammer IIC in Battletech
Spartan - Gladiator in old RPG, Archer in Battletech
Phalanx - Spartan in old RPG, Longbow in Battletech
Monster - Mac II in old RPG, Behemoth in Batteldroids (precursor to Battletech)
VF-1A Valkyrie - Stinger in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
VF-1S Valkyrie - Wasp in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
VF-1A Valkyrie - Stinger LAM in Battletech (All three modes)
VF-1S Valkyrie - Wasp LAM in Battletech (All three modes)
Super VF-1S Valkyrie - Phoenix Hawk in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
Super VF-1S Valkyrie - Phoenix Hawk LAM in Battletech (All three modes)
Armoured Valkyrie - Crusader in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
Regult Tactical Battle Pod - Used as a pseudo basis for the Ostscout, Ostroc and Ostol
Glaug Officer Battlepod- Marauder and Maruader II in Battletech

Compiled by Jaymz

Actually the Warhammer IIC was specifically intended NOT to be the Robotech mech, though with similar weapons layout for player recognition.
You forgot about the VF-1J Valkyrie - VLK-QA Valkyrie (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Valkyrie).
also the Regult Tactical Battle Podis the basis for the Ostol. the Ostscout is the Recon-Scout-Pod and the Ostroc is the Heavy-Artillery-Pod - for the version with the 4-pack on the shoulders and Light-AP for the ugly version with the hand launchers (though all of these are heavily modified due to needing heads and arms for BT).

Ostroc Mk II = Regult Tactical Battle Pod https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ostroc_Mk_II

Sambot wrote:Ostroc Mk II = Regult Tactical Battle Pod https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ostroc_Mk_II

No that's the Heavy Artillery Pod - even shows the Pick. The TBP has small(ish) lasers in the rear, the HAP has 4 missile tubes which the Ostroc has "2xSRM-2's"

gmg4rwf wrote:

Sambot wrote:Ostroc Mk II = Regult Tactical Battle Pod https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ostroc_Mk_II

No that's the Heavy Artillery Pod - even shows the Pick. The TBP has small(ish) lasers in the rear, the HAP has 4 missile tubes which the Ostroc has "2xSRM-2's"

h
It's closer in appearance than the other OSTs and it wouldn't be too hard to make variants for each of the pods.

Sambot wrote:

gmg4rwf wrote:

Sambot wrote:Ostroc Mk II = Regult Tactical Battle Pod https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ostroc_Mk_II

No that's the Heavy Artillery Pod - even shows the Pick. The TBP has small(ish) lasers in the rear, the HAP has 4 missile tubes which the Ostroc has "2xSRM-2's"

h
It's closer in appearance than the other OSTs and it wouldn't be too hard to make variants for each of the pods.

The Ostol is the TBP - 2 large beam weapons forward, 2 small (Med Lasers) weapons each lower front and rear. They added a head, arms and reversed the legs (but still ostrich/bird like legs just backwards).

guys, can you take such discussions to PM's? this thread is meant more as a general reference

glitterboy2098 wrote:guys, can you take such discussions to PM's? this thread is meant more as a general reference

I was trying to fix the references - the Valkyrie was left out and the ZBP/Ost' mechs weren't properly referenced.

The Ost-? are based on the variants of the Regult/Reguld. It's all that is really necessary as reference since they really do not look enough like them to worry about otherwise. Even your Ostroc Mk II reference is questionable as to its canonicity of existence in Battletech (Your own link states as much)

The Warhammer IIC original art appearance is easily identified as a Tomahawk variation....though the "reseen" and MWO designs do change it enough that you can argue otherwise as they do for pretty much all the unseen designated designs.

Also the Valkryie was a VF-1S variation like the Wasp (In fact it could be argued the Valkyrie was essentially a 30 ton wasp) not a VF-1J)

That said, I did forget the Valkyrie mech in my first compilation so ...

Defender - Raidar X in old RPG, Rifleman in Battletech
Tomahawk - Excalibur in old RPG, Warhammer or Warhammer IIC in Battletech
Spartan - Gladiator in old RPG, Archer in Battletech
Phalanx - Spartan in old RPG, Longbow in Battletech
Monster - Mac II in old RPG, Behemoth in Batteldroids (precursor to Battletech)
VF-1A Valkyrie - Stinger in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
VF-1S Valkyrie - Wasp and Valkyrie in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
VF-1A Valkyrie - Stinger LAM in Battletech (All three modes)
VF-1S Valkyrie - Wasp LAM in Battletech (All three modes)
Super VF-1S Valkyrie - Phoenix Hawk in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
Super VF-1S Valkyrie - Phoenix Hawk LAM in Battletech (All three modes)
Armoured Valkyrie - Crusader in Battletech (Battloid Mode)
Regult Tactical Battle Pod - Used as a primary basis for the Ost-? mechs in Battletech
Glaug Officer Battlepod- Marauder, Maruader II, and Marauder IIC in Battletech

jaymz wrote:The Ost-? are based on the variants of the Regult/Reguld. It's all that is really necessary as reference since they really do not look enough like them to worry about otherwise. Even your Ostroc Mk II reference is questionable as to its canonicity of existence in Battletech (Your own link states as much)

Also the Valkryie was a VF-1S variation like the Wasp (In fact it could be argued the Valkyrie was essentially a 30 ton wasp) not a VF-1J)

Looking back, the Valkyrie was given 4 antenna, I thought it was 2, so, yes another version of VF-1S, though not a 30tn Wasp, completely different capabilities, the 30tn Wasp was the Wasp LAM.

The Ost's were specific though. The Ostroc had Missiles (as did the Artillery Pods) with the final version having 4 tubes (as did the Heavy Artillery Pod - though not in the same configuration) and the 'roc stood for Rocket (or missile), the Ostscout is the Recon Scout Pod, says so in the name, also does not have 2 big beam cannons in the chest, just 1 big round thing (replaced the spotlight with the Medium Laser mounting). Never could figure out what the 'sol in Ostsol stood for but the weapons definitely mimic the standard TBP, no rockets/missiles and not a fast scout mech. The Ost' stands for Ostrich which I figure they thought the Zentraedi pods looked like, though the fluff contributes it to the name of the company that manufactures them, "Ostmann Industries".
Also looking into this, there is another: I mentioned that the standard Ostroc (with the shoulder mounted SRM-4) is the Heavy Artillery Pod but the original drawing was a ridicules thing with missile tubes in oval paddle-like hands, as a humanoid version of the Light Artillery Pod. New errata has actually explained that drawing away with the "Ostwar", a 65th "primitive" predecessor of the other 3.

Yes thank you I know which was which for the Osts. Not the point and I think you know that.

And I know the 30t wasp was the lam. Again not the point o was making since I wasn't referring to the lam. The VLQ was, for all intents and purposes, was an upsided wasp battlemech. Looked very similar just heavier armour and more armament.

Now seeing as you are apparently just looking to argue semantics, I'll leave this discussion.

jaymz wrote:The Ost-? are based on the variants of the Regult/Reguld. It's all that is really necessary as reference since they really do not look enough like them to worry about otherwise. Even your Ostroc Mk II reference is questionable as to its canonicity of existence in Battletech (Your own link states as much)

Yes the canonicity is in question. However, it was valid when it was printed and is closest in looks. It could also still be used with the illegal quirk.

gmg4rwf wrote:Also looking into this, there is another: I mentioned that the standard Ostroc (with the shoulder mounted SRM-4) is the Heavy Artillery Pod but the original drawing was a ridicules thing with missile tubes in oval paddle-like hands, as a humanoid version of the Light Artillery Pod. New errata has actually explained that drawing away with the "Ostwar", a 65th "primitive" predecessor of the other 3.

Actually, the art shown in TRO:3025 was labeled a FrankenMech a long time ago. It's an Ostroc that uses parts from an Ostwar. You can see it listed as Ostroc Hybrid on Sarna's Ostroc page. https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ostroc

For visual reference
Ostwar https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/4/45/ ... 0606112230
Ostroc https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/1/1d/ ... 0718101437
Ostroc Hybrid/FrankenMech https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/2/23/ ... 0421095151

Sambot wrote:

gmg4rwf wrote:Also looking into this, there is another: I mentioned that the standard Ostroc (with the shoulder mounted SRM-4) is the Heavy Artillery Pod but the original drawing was a ridicules thing with missile tubes in oval paddle-like hands, as a humanoid version of the Light Artillery Pod. New errata has actually explained that drawing away with the "Ostwar", a 65th "primitive" predecessor of the other 3.

Actually, the art shown in TRO:3025 was labeled a FrankenMech a long time ago. It's an Ostroc that uses parts from an Ostwar. You can see it listed as Ostroc Hybrid on Sarna's Ostroc page. https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ostroc

It was shown in the original Citytech box set Rule book and cardboard stands as the "Ostroc", which is the first I ever saw of it (either one) before that, and the original 3025TRO labels it such. It wasn't till after that that FASA produced the current official "Ostroc" design (and thank goodness, that old one is uuggglyyyy) and backstoried the ugly one. (guess they had a lot of bad mail on that one.)

gmg4rwf wrote:It was shown in the original Citytech box set Rule book and cardboard stands as the "Ostroc", which is the first I ever saw of it (either one) before that, and the original 3025TRO labels it such. It wasn't till after that that FASA produced the current official "Ostroc" design (and thank goodness, that old one is uuggglyyyy) and backstoried the ugly one. (guess they had a lot of bad mail on that one.)

That's because it is an Ostroc. It's just a very customized Ostroc. If you look the hybrid Ostroc art and the stats don't match. They do match with the Ostroc. I don't know why FASA did it but it isn't the first time they had the wrong picture. It ends up being labeled as Comstar misinformation. Sarna talks about it under Ostroc/Hybrid and under Notes.

Sambot wrote:

gmg4rwf wrote:It was shown in the original Citytech box set Rule book and cardboard stands as the "Ostroc", which is the first I ever saw of it (either one) before that, and the original 3025TRO labels it such. It wasn't till after that that FASA produced the current official "Ostroc" design (and thank goodness, that old one is uuggglyyyy) and backstoried the ugly one. (guess they had a lot of bad mail on that one.)

That's because it is an Ostroc. It's just a very customized Ostroc. If you look the hybrid Ostroc art and the stats don't match. They do match with the Ostroc. I don't know why FASA did it but it isn't the first time they had the wrong picture. It ends up being labeled as Comstar misinformation. Sarna talks about it under Ostroc/Hybrid and under Notes.

yes, but that's all recent fluff to explain FASA's shoddy work, and why there are 2 different picks - one that doesn't match the stats and one that does.

gmg4rwf wrote:

Sambot wrote:

gmg4rwf wrote:It was shown in the original Citytech box set Rule book and cardboard stands as the "Ostroc", which is the first I ever saw of it (either one) before that, and the original 3025TRO labels it such. It wasn't till after that that FASA produced the current official "Ostroc" design (and thank goodness, that old one is uuggglyyyy) and backstoried the ugly one. (guess they had a lot of bad mail on that one.)

That's because it is an Ostroc. It's just a very customized Ostroc. If you look the hybrid Ostroc art and the stats don't match. They do match with the Ostroc. I don't know why FASA did it but it isn't the first time they had the wrong picture. It ends up being labeled as Comstar misinformation. Sarna talks about it under Ostroc/Hybrid and under Notes.

yes, but that's all recent fluff to explain FASA's shoddy work, and why there are 2 different picks - one that doesn't match the stats and one that does.

The Ostroc's been that way for a couple decades now so it's not that recent. Art not matching stats though continues to be a thing. It's gotten better but it still happens. There's even places in the rule books where they say "Rules trump art."