Forums of the Megaverse®

Just a small question. If a bullet and arrow can meet their targets at the same range and in the same time frame, does the arrow break the sound barrier? On a side note, what powers would allow a thrown object to break the sound barrier?

Thrown objects. Superhuman Strength and above and I would also house rule sonic speed provides similiar abilities.

The 1st question is answerable No, because you did not state that they were fired at the same time. All that you said was that they ended up at the same place at the same time....which is do-able with the prober timing.

There is no text in the HU2 books to specifically lets a char throw something past the speed of sound. Thou, say is on the right track about the minimum requirements.

Superspeed of some form, combined with manipulate or control kinetic energy should do the trick.
Force Manipulation has a sub-ability that should do the trick if you want. The one that lets you throw boulders or cars...

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:There is no text in the books to specifically lets a char throw something past the speed of sound.

Although it might be extrapolated from looking at what some characters can achieve...

A cosmo-knight can fling his thing 4k in space, and it doesn't say you need a 2nd action for the return trip so that's a full distance of 8k feet per action.

Their HtH would give them 5 attacks at level 15 (plus the 2 base makes 7) get 8 from boxing, and opt to wear a suit of power-armor you can pilot instead of your cosmic armor (although since it's skin-tight and can be a thin layer it MIGHT be possible to wear that underneath) say the Silverhawk, which you'd have 5 more attacks from at 15th level, bringing you to 13 a round.

13x8,000 = 104 thousand feet per round. This works out to 6933 feet per second or 4727.27 miles per hour, which is in the hypersonic range, roughly Mach 6.21029

Not as fast as a Demon-Knight, but fast enough to tag a fleeing Cosmo-Knight below level 7.

Tor wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:There is no text in the books to specifically lets a char throw something past the speed of sound.

Although it might be extrapolated from looking at what some characters can achieve...

A cosmo-knight can fling his thing 4k in space, and it doesn't say you need a 2nd action for the return trip so that's a full distance of 8k feet per action.

Their HtH would give them 5 attacks at level 15 (plus the 2 base makes 7) get 8 from boxing, and opt to wear a suit of power-armor you can pilot instead of your cosmic armor (although since it's skin-tight and can be a thin layer it MIGHT be possible to wear that underneath) say the Silverhawk, which you'd have 5 more attacks from at 15th level, bringing you to 13 a round.

13x8,000 = 104 thousand feet per round. This works out to 6933 feet per second or 4727.27 miles per hour, which is in the hypersonic range, roughly Mach 6.21029

Not as fast as a Demon-Knight, but fast enough to tag a fleeing Cosmo-Knight below level 7.

Or the 'thingy' object simply teleports/wormholes just after release and recovers in the same fashion.

Getting an object up to supersonic speeds is easy, that's just a property of force causing acceleration to sufficient speed. The question is, how accurate is that object and how much of that force can it impart on impact. In real life, a bullet that exits a target has wasted energy, though bleeding out from two holes is faster then one. To solve that problem rely on damage codes. Small thrown objects would hit with bullet like damage plus whatever the object's base damage code would be. Figure 3d6 to 4d6

As for powers getting thrown objects up to those speeds Say652 has the right of it.

Cosmo-Knight weapons aren't mentioned as doing this, in fact it even mentions the weapons can be forcefully restrained from returning. You can't forcefully restrain something that's capable of teleporting back.

*wonders why anything from Rifts was even mentioned.....since this is the HU forum.*

Hmm, Aroldis Chapman of the Cincinnati Reds in 2010 threw the fastest pitch recorded in a major league game at 105-mph (169
km). I'm guessing someone with Extra P.S., Manipulate Kinetic Energy, or Targeting you could double that. Triple that with
Superhuman. And x4 or x5 with supernatural. Sonic speed probably could if G.M thinks so.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:*wonders why anything from Rifts was even mentioned.....since this is the HU forum.*

Because while a lot of people travel these forums, some people only really have any understanding and experience with Rifts and Phase World.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:*wonders why anything from Rifts was even mentioned.....since this is the HU forum.*

With Armageddon Unlimited and HU being part of the inter-dimensional Minion War, I think of it as a relevant topic.

It was just a casual example because I knew the numbers would work out. I could try calculating it for a Magic Weapons' char though...

If we make them level 15:
*have 7 attacks from HtH (no assassin, is a good char, evil weapons can't get return property)
*Pick Sonic Speed as Major, get 5 more, up to 12.
*weapon can travel 335 feet per action
*that's 4020 ft per round, 16 080 per minute, 964,800 feet per hour, or 182 miles per hour... well blah, scratch that tactic...

There's probably some way to combine the minor Manipulate Kinetic Energy with something in PU1/3 to accomplish a Sonic throw.

wyrmraker wrote:some people only really have any understanding and experience with Rifts and Phase World.

I think it rude for you to imply that I only have experience with those two games just for bringing up a Cosmo-Knight.

Tor wrote:Cosmo-Knight weapons aren't mentioned as doing this, in fact it even mentions the weapons can be forcefully restrained from returning. You can't forcefully restrain something that's capable of teleporting back.

Doesn't exclude it either, and anything with any significant mass moving at those speeds, would inflict in a MDC setting much more damage then listed. You're poking at the rules system with a 'real world physics' kind of approach. Which doesn't work. Just as with the peasant rail gun from 3.5 D&D, it's just a rules system to describe a complex physics question in short order. Or put simply, handwavium says it works.

Mass-based damage may work differently with cosmic weapons. Physics doesn't matter since we don't know whether or not the weapon defies it.

I'm just calculating the speed, not drawing any conclusions from it. Believing the speed implies any conclusions is poking with the physics approach

I get the impression the idea of teleport-back is excluded, because the context of weapon-restraining appears to be when it was thrown.

If it was impossible to restrain mid-throw and could only be taken when set down or dropped then I could buy the teleport thing.

Tor wrote:Mass-based damage may work differently with cosmic weapons. Physics doesn't matter since we don't know whether or not the weapon defies it.

I'm just calculating the speed, not drawing any conclusions from it. Believing the speed implies any conclusions is poking with the physics approach

I get the impression the idea of teleport-back is excluded, because the context of weapon-restraining appears to be when it was thrown.

If it was impossible to restrain mid-throw and could only be taken when set down or dropped then I could buy the teleport thing.

Riiiiight. Any rules on not teleporting?

Oy, here quoting the text "tries to fly back to its owner, but it can be restrained". So it flies, flying is not teleporting.

Tor wrote:Oy, here quoting the text "tries to fly back to its owner, but it can be restrained". So it flies, flying is not teleporting.

Flies could mean a number of things, worm hole comes to mind. Could be that at short ranges we have a direct line of travel, to conserve energy, while at longer ranges, it could teleport, or worm hole, or whatever handwavium objects do when no one is looking. Perhaps it uses time dilation to make the trip. Don't worry so much about it. I have it on good authority that it's just a game.

There's no evidence of teleporting or wormholes, so the simplest explanation is that it flies, like it says.

If discussing the game is 'worrying' and we ought not to do it, then I'm not understanding why you post here.

Ignoring Tor's whole Cosmo Knight weapon in space argument as being non sequitur since there is no sound barrier in space.

There is no good examples of converting force into velocity in the HU series of books (or the rest of the Palladium books) to properly answer your questions.

The Idea of firing an arrow or throwing an object with enough force is intriguing though.

Tor wrote:There's no evidence of teleporting or wormholes, so the simplest explanation is that it flies, like it says.

If discussing the game is 'worrying' and we ought not to do it, then I'm not understanding why you post here.

Your worried about what is lapse in a game mechanic. A laser blast, a gun shot and a arrow all reach their target at the same speed, a single melee round. But sweating a detail is pointless and it leads to weird rules. Don't worry about it.

I was talking to one of the other members in our group pointed out that the initial post presupposes that one or all of the projectiles broke the speed of sound. It could also be that none of the projectiles broke the speed of sound.

SpiritInterface wrote:Ignoring Tor's whole Cosmo Knight weapon in space argument as being non sequitur since there is no sound barrier in space.

I'm well aware of that. The speed of sound also differs based on the temperature and humidity of our air, and travels over 4x as fast in water.

So if you want to get overly technical, we could multiply the speed of any under-water vehicles by 4 to see how it compares to our air-based mach barrier, if you like.

Or, y'know, assume we're talking about the general-usage Earth-air-based Mach equivalent of miles-per-hour.

Tor wrote:

SpiritInterface wrote:Ignoring Tor's whole Cosmo Knight weapon in space argument as being non sequitur since there is no sound barrier in space.

I'm well aware of that. The speed of sound also differs based on the temperature and humidity of our air, and travels over 4x as fast in water.

So if you want to get overly technical, we could multiply the speed of any under-water vehicles by 4 to see how it compares to our air-based mach barrier, if you like.

Or, y'know, assume we're talking about the general-usage Earth-air-based Mach equivalent of miles-per-hour.

Then you mean 340.29 m / s (915 mph).

You were still comparing space ranges to a discussion about ground based attacks.

Yours is the first mention of "ground" in this thread, stop moving the goalposts.

Tor wrote:Yours is the first mention of "ground" in this thread, stop moving the goalposts.

And how many basis Heroes Unlimited game are based in space???

Depends on the campaign.

Also considering the super-high result, even in-atmosphere cosmic weapon throwing would still go super-Sonic. I got Mach 6, CWs go 1/4 in atmosphere, so result's Mach 1.5

Tor wrote:Depends on the campaign.

Also considering the super-high result, even in-atmosphere cosmic weapon throwing would still go super-Sonic. I got Mach 6, CWs go 1/4 in atmosphere, so result's Mach 1.5

What methodology are you using?