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How does it work? Does it pertain to the natural roll of the die, or does it pertain to the roll to strike in total? How would other GMs make the call?

Dakchronos wrote:How does it work? Does it pertain to the natural roll of the die, or does it pertain to the roll to strike in total? How would other GMs make the call?

Most of the books state that it is the total that is checked against the Armor Rating to see if you beat it or not.

I'm not a big fan of Armor Rating. It makes little sense to me. It's an old rule harking back to the AD&D days (which I do admit were pretty cool day .

I house rule that the AR is how much damage a character can soak before taking damage (e.g., if a character was shot and received 21 S.D.C. damage and had an A.R. 15, they would subtract 15 from the 21 and receive only 6 damage). It's not a perfect house rule, but it's quick and allows for little conversion.

Page 17&18 of HU2 say that you roll D20 than add bonuses........if you have HU2 book read the A.R. section carefully since it explains the two A.R. types

I like using the Armor Rating as a psuedo-stopping power similar to how knightgoblin does...easier and really, "aiming for the unprotected parts" means you hit non-vital areas, and thus should do less damage over time than super effective limb hits...

-STS

This is the Canon Answer:
The Armor Rating rule is simple (there are two types of A.R. though). Any strike roll (including bonuses) over the armor rating hits the character/npc and does full damage. Defender always wins in regard to a tie so only strike rolls over do full name to the character protect by armor. Any roll (modified or not) equal to or less than the A.R. does damage to the S.D.C of the armor first until it is depleted.

The other type of Armor Rating is "Natural". Usually creatures of magic or supernatural have natural A.R. It is almost the same except that any strike roll (modified by bonuses or not) equal to or less than the A.R. does no/zero damage to the supernatural creature.

This is my own personal house rule:
I don't like how a character can get completely chopped to pieces (via standard Palladium rules for armor) and in a completely untouched suit of armor never really made a lot of since to me made light armor almost completely useless.

An unmodified roll that successfully hits above the characters A.R. inflicts full damage. Same as always
A natural roll on a D20 that was below the A.R. of the armor that was modified by bonuses to hit above the characters A.R. inflicts one half damage to the armor and one half to the character.
The only exception to this rule is a successful called shot to a specific unarmored portion of opponents anatomy using standard "Called Shot" penalities.
The only down side to this is that player armor does tend to get trashed much faster with this house rule.

I have also used the damage soak rule knightgoblin mentioned but it makes armor too tough often. I have considered a hybrid rule but I haven't figured out a way to keep it simple (if rules are too complex it slows down a game too much or forces everyone to do too much math). I like the above House Rule best.

AR is a horrible mechanic. Any house is likely to be better.

--flatline

My favorite way to handle this comes from the Rifts G.M. guide, in a Q&A about S.D.C. attacks on characters in "partial" M.D.C. armor. The Q&A suggests two ways to handle this:

The first is to require called shots only to target openings in the body armor. 12 or better is required to strike a stationary target. 15 or higher to hit a moving target and 17 or higher to hit a fast moving target. If the opponent knows the attack is coming, he gets to dodge as normal; high roll wins, defender wins ties (which means the dodging character successfully dodges and escapes his S.D.C. parts getting hit). If the called shot is successful then the M.D.C. armor has been bypassed through the gap in the armor and the character takes the damage. Note: Without the called shot, strikes are presumed to hit the main body which would be covered by the M.D.C. armor.

The second option is to assign the armor an Armor Rating (A.R.), and to hit the character wearing the armor the attacker needs to roll above the A.R. of the target. Rolling below it means the armor takes the damage. Note: Ignore the A.R. if the attacker is using M.D. weapons as the lethality aspect will blast right through the armor, although the armor takes damage first. There are rare cases where S.D.C. armor that numbers into the hundreds of S.D.C. absorb a low intensity M.D. blast. In this case every 100 S.D.C. points equals one M.D. point.

Both sets of options are considered to be equivalent, though coming form different points of view.

With this as a rough guide, I tend to ignore BODY ARMOR style A.R. and have everything hit the armor unless the attackers are making a called shot or trying to bypass it purposely.

Lukterran wrote:This is the Canon Answer:
The Armor Rating rule is simple (there are two types of A.R. though)......

There are actually four Types of AR.....but three of them are identical in mechanics: Natural AR, Vehicle AR and Robotic AR. The Nat. AR is for chars and the other two are for....vehicles and robots.

Force Fields have a Nat AR 4....according to the mechanics (if it hits it hits and the damage is taken off the SDC of the FF, if it misses it misses.)

The group I learned from always used unmodified number on the die to determine if it got past the AR. Re-reading the section, it's not clear, it could go either way. Going into different product lines makes it a little clearer, so I think I was taught correctly, that it is the number on the die before bonuses.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Lukterran wrote:This is the Canon Answer:
The Armor Rating rule is simple (there are two types of A.R. though)......

There are actually four Types of AR.....but three of them are identical in mechanics: Natural AR, Vehicle AR and Robotic AR. The Nat. AR is for chars and the other two are for....vehicles and robots.

Force Fields have a Nat AR 4....according to the mechanics (if it hits it hits and the damage is taken off the SDC of the FF, if it misses it misses.)

Wouldn't that actually be an AR of 20? Wouldn't AR of 4 mean everything that hits bypasses the AR and hits what's behind the force field?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:three of them are identical in mechanics: Natural AR, Vehicle AR and Robotic AR. The Nat. AR is for chars and the other two are for....vehicles and robots.

Surely artifice is part of nature... not to mention some vague overlap between bots/vehicles.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Force Fields have a Nat AR 4....according to the mechanics (if it hits it hits and the damage is taken off the SDC of the FF, if it misses it misses.)

Aura > Field

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Lukterran wrote:This is the Canon Answer:
The Armor Rating rule is simple (there are two types of A.R. though)......

There are actually four Types of AR.....but three of them are identical in mechanics: Natural AR, Vehicle AR and Robotic AR. The Nat. AR is for chars and the other two are for....vehicles and robots.

Force Fields have a Nat AR 4....according to the mechanics (if it hits it hits and the damage is taken off the SDC of the FF, if it misses it misses.)

Actually, SOME force fields have an AR of 4, that is presumed to be nAR. but its not explicit which (though a regular AR of 4 is beyond silly and into the depths of pointless) and this is not universal.

Tor wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Force Fields have a Nat AR 4....according to the mechanics (if it hits it hits and the damage is taken off the SDC of the FF, if it misses it misses.)

Aura > Field

Nope...I said Force Field and meant FF.

eliakon wrote:Actually, SOME force fields have an AR of 4, that is presumed to be nAR. but its not explicit which (though a regular AR of 4 is beyond silly and into the depths of pointless) and this is not universal.

You left out a word Eli.....SOME "magic" force fields have a AR 4. (specifically the "Energy Field" spell).


I was talking about Tech FF having a Nat.AR 4.

If I had been talking about the protective magic I would of mentioned I was talking about magic FF.

arouetta wrote:Wouldn't that actually be an AR of 20? Wouldn't AR of 4 mean everything that hits bypasses the AR and hits what's behind the force field?

What I said was Natural AR 4.

Which means that it ether hits and damage to the FF or it misses. Nothing in-between. No deflection or bouncing off, & no by-passing FF.
------------
It is problematic that PB does not label if the AR they are talking about is AR or NAR, or RAR, or VAR...they just put AR for all of them at times.
So Yes Eli is correct that the AR 4 in the Energy field spell is normally ends up interpreted as Nat AR 4.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

eliakon wrote:Actually, SOME force fields have an AR of 4, that is presumed to be nAR. but its not explicit which (though a regular AR of 4 is beyond silly and into the depths of pointless) and this is not universal.

You left out a word Eli.....SOME "magic" force fields have a AR 4. (specifically the "Energy Field" spell).

If I had been talking about the protective magic I would of mentioned I was talking about magic FF.

I was talking about Tech FF having a Nat.AR 4.

Actually I didn't leave out a word. I meant exactly what I said. Unless you have a page number that explicitly says that all non-magical force fields have an AR of 4? Because otherwise....its back to SOME FF have AR 4.

There are no normal (tech) FF that have a AR 4, that I know of. (If you can find one with an AR 4 then state where it is.)

The only FF that I know of that have an stated AR 4 are magical FF. Unless you want to state where a Non-magical FF that has a AR 4, then I do not see the point of making a point that there ARE normal FF with an AR 4.

Of course aroutta already stated why anything with an AR 4 is stupid.

Note, I have only said Natural AR in this post once.

Dakchronos wrote:How does it work? Does it pertain to the natural roll of the die, or does it pertain to the roll to strike in total? How would other GMs make the call?

Standard AR, is a form of body armor. Think bullet proof vest. Attacker makes a roll to strike, adds any relevant bonuses or penalties and then compares against the AR number which the total must exceed. Rolled above, damage to the character. Rolled equal to or below, damage to the armor.

Natural Armor, as well as vehicle and robot armor simply negates damage if the roll is insufficient to beat the AR. Robot and vehicle AR come with their own pools of SDC that once depleted, then the pilot or occupants of internal systems take damage. Natural AR represents something that makes a character so tough that s/he can't be hurt unless there is sufficient force or a lucky shot. A roll to strike that exceeds that number inflicts damage to the character as normal.

Vehicle AR is tricky because it has a verity of sub-ARs and SDC pools, which makes combat complex. Most GMs will simplify it down to keep the game moving. I think Wayne B. had stuff kicking around the boards on stream lining it.

Also recall that in all instances, an attacks PV will also modify the target's AR. This is tied to bullets, usually with armor piercing qualities. However, they do not change the roll to strike. So the plus two vs AR does not make a missed shot (1-4) a hit.

knightgoblin wrote:I'm not a big fan of Armor Rating. It makes little sense to me. It's an old rule harking back to the AD&D days (which I do admit were pretty cool day .

I house rule that the AR is how much damage a character can soak before taking damage (e.g., if a character was shot and received 21 S.D.C. damage and had an A.R. 15, they would subtract 15 from the 21 and receive only 6 damage). It's not a perfect house rule, but it's quick and allows for little conversion.

That's freaking brilliant!

Standard body armor is irrelevant in most builds, this makes it relevant. Excellent idea.

I agree with you TAF...it also helps if you are going to convert to other games that have a damage reduction mechanic like Cyberpunk or BRP...

-STS

BRP?

-flatline

I'm altogether confused why Palladium even bothers to write AR4. Surely everything by default has that and only AR 5 or higher is relevant since it means something can hit and not do damage, like with Shadow Beasts in light, even if's not as often relevant as higher NARs.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Tor wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Force Fields have a Nat AR 4....according to the mechanics (if it hits it hits and the damage is taken off the SDC of the FF, if it misses it misses.)

Aura > Field

Nope...I said Force Field and meant FF.

That was shorthand for "Force Aura is so much cooler than Force Field due to its epic natural armor rating". IF I thought you were mistaken I might've wrote Field > Aura. Dat flexible to/greaterthan symbol.

I think it might be clearer if Palladium revised the terminology to be more descriptive of the effect.

For example instead of standard AR call it "coverage AR" and instead of natural AR call it "deflection AR"

slade the sniper wrote:I agree with you TAF...it also helps if you are going to convert to other games that have a damage reduction mechanic like Cyberpunk or BRP...

-STS

That damage soak idea is awesome. I've had fights where my character is beat to hell but his armor is perfect due to powers and combat skills (dodge/auto-dodge or parry). For most supers, it keeps the status-quo (puny human), makes cops vs thugs better emulate real world situations and maintains a reason to wear armor.

The Artist Formerly wrote:

slade the sniper wrote:I agree with you TAF...it also helps if you are going to convert to other games that have a damage reduction mechanic like Cyberpunk or BRP...

-STS

That damage soak idea is awesome. I've had fights where my character is beat to hell but his armor is perfect due to powers and combat skills (dodge/auto-dodge or parry). For most supers, it keeps the status-quo (puny human), makes cops vs thugs better emulate real world situations and maintains a reason to wear armor.

of course the soak mechanic has its own quirks as well...
you can end up with the situation where the armor is in tatters and has only 3 or 4 sdc remaining but is still able to soak 15 (AR 15) points of damage.

I resolved that little issue by having the AR drop by 1 point after losing a certain amount of sdc.
The formula for that would be SDC/AR = drop rate.
Ex: Riot Vest - AR: 10 SDC: 60 (60/10 = 6) Drop rate is 1 point of AR for every 6 points of SDC lost.

Another issue that crops up: What about armors that do not provide full body protection? I use the all hits are to main body unless a successful called shot is made (I also house rule that a missed called shot is a straight up miss not a default to main body like the canon rules state) to cover that and use the AR as the base target number for the called shot and add modifiers for difficulty from that point.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:There are no normal (tech) FF that have a AR 4, that I know of. (If you can find one with an AR 4 then state where it is.)

The only FF that I know of that have an stated AR 4 are magical FF. Unless you want to state where a Non-magical FF that has a AR 4, then I do not see the point of making a point that there ARE normal FF with an AR 4.

Of course aroutta already stated why anything with an AR 4 is stupid.

Note, I have only said Natural AR in this post once.

Then if there is only one FF with an AR of 4, and that one is a magical force field......Then why did you say that

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Force Fields have a Nat AR 4....according to the mechanics (if it hits it hits and the damage is taken off the SDC of the FF, if it misses it misses.)

Your (rather insulting I might add) "correction" of my statement about SOME force fields having an AR of 4, was because I was trying to point out that your statement was in error. Your statement above is a sweeping generalization that force fields (with no modifier your statement would be about ALL force fields) has an AR of 4. That is not true, since it is only one force field (that I am aware of, which is a basic definition of 'some') that has that AR. An AR I might note, that as I pointed out, needs to be made Natural or the spell is pointless.

Discuss the subject, not each other.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

The Artist Formerly wrote:

slade the sniper wrote:I agree with you TAF...it also helps if you are going to convert to other games that have a damage reduction mechanic like Cyberpunk or BRP...

-STS

That damage soak idea is awesome. I've had fights where my character is beat to hell but his armor is perfect due to powers and combat skills (dodge/auto-dodge or parry). For most supers, it keeps the status-quo (puny human), makes cops vs thugs better emulate real world situations and maintains a reason to wear armor.

of course the soak mechanic has its own quirks as well...
you can end up with the situation where the armor is in tatters and has only 3 or 4 sdc remaining but is still able to soak 15 (AR 15) points of damage.

I resolved that little issue by having the AR drop by 1 point after losing a certain amount of sdc.
The formula for that would be SDC/AR = drop rate.
Ex: Riot Vest - AR: 10 SDC: 60 (60/10 = 6) Drop rate is 1 point of AR for every 6 points of SDC lost.

Another issue that crops up: What about armors that do not provide full body protection? I use the all hits are to main body unless a successful called shot is made (I also house rule that a missed called shot is a straight up miss not a default to main body like the canon rules state) to cover that and use the AR as the base target number for the called shot and add modifiers for difficulty from that point.

Called shots would cover the specific hit location, I agree.

And you're dead right about the SDC depletion, but as I find HU fights to be math slugging matches, seems to me (having not tested this but will soon) that it's going to cause more bookkeeping then it's worth. But we'll screw with it and see what happens.

All of this said, I really like this mechanic. It makes armor useful again.

@Damian/Knightgoblin

Played last week, had two fights, my Analit Gen vs thugs in each, the original worked like a charm, and based on Damian's suggestion, tried the second one. I liked both fights, but found that Damian's idea, while much more plausible to a fight, made for a very full short hand note sheet on character combat. I think in groups of PCs, above 3, and waves of thugs, things could get a bit note intensive. Especially over multiple encounters between repair fits. Over all the mechanic worked great, and made it seem like wearing regular armor was worth a damn. Stuff like SHOCK suits and other advanced regular body armors make sense in this mechanic frame.

After the second fight, the other PC, the GM and I worked out that only the 'big hits' during a fight needed to be tracked, and that the GM should penalize the armor based on that hit. For example, my "Grey Fox" suit took a led pipe to the back of the head on a natural 20. Damage was 18 points (5 pts on a d6, +4 pts PS x2). My armor (Frag cape/vest AR 13+2(Analit armor bonus)) was a bit dinged up to start with (from the first fight, SDC of 120+12 from Analit armor bonus, less 22 points of misc damage) but basicly good to go. My AR started at 14 because of previous damage, and then instantly dropped to 12 from that single hit. Troublesome, but still functional. Later in that fight, two hench-goons were running to the room where the hostage was, and despite being in melee combat with two other hench-goons, I decide to press my luck. I use paired weapons to throw two of my sleepy time knives at the hostage bound goons. Hit both of them, one saves, one fails and wins a all expense paid trip to "passed out and slides three feet on his face town" (I think that's in Canada). Having no defensive actions available, I get punched (5 points, 3 on a d4 +2 brass knuckles) and stabbed (6 points, knifed). AR just holds (working in multiples of 13, 132-22-18-5-6=81). Now this is where Damian's mechanic variant really shines, because I had to make decisions based on my new, lower AR. Which was great. I again go with paired attacks, a sleepy time at the guy who saved last round (killing hostage=bad) and tossing a Chalupa-pepper smoke pellet at my feet to buy me some breathing room (actually I tossed it just in front of the face of the now unconscious and with a broken arm guy who hit me with the pipe). The guy running for the hostage goes out like a light, and with the added penalty of being in my smoke cloud, neither of the other guys can mount an effective attack.

The trouble with Damian's mechanic showed up a in the next melee round, when Crossbones, physical training character and arch-rival of my Grey Fox shows up fresh for the fight. His damage out put is impressive, and without my gadgets at 100%, I am no match for him. This places me in serious trouble, and while I was able to squeak out a win, (and send Hector "Crossbones" Martinez back to jail until the cartel's lawyers spring him) it was less the epic fight and more a battle of attrition and brute force palladium game mechanics). It lacked the desperation of being on the edge of losing, and more about not failing too many parries while waiting for dice or my superior number of attacks per melee to let me whittle him down.

As our games often feature several small fight scenes rather then big round robins, that sort of attrition can become tedious. The GM pointed out that it would be easier to note the big hits, and stack penalties as needed. For example, the pipe to the back of the head might have screwed up my comm system or just inflicted a small penalty to skill checks from getting my bell rung. The knife strike, which wasn't particularly damaging but was notable might have cut a power line to my suit's PS augment or shorted out my kinetic amplifier system.

I would recommend that anyone using this stick with Knight's guidelines when in large groups of PCs, just to simplify the game, fights with hordes of bad guys tend to drag on as it is, but use Damian's ideas for when **** gets ****ed up.

eliakon wrote:]
Your (rather insulting I might add) "correction" of my statement about SOME force fields having an AR of 4, was because I was trying to point out that your statement was in error. ...snip

I did point out earlier that you left out the word 'Magic' as a qualifier from your statement about 'some force fields' [which should of read 'a type of magic force field'] having just an AR 4. So it should of been apparent that I know very well that only a single type magic FF (Energy Field) has a stated AR 4.


And since when talking about any of the Magic FF or armor spells they are usually stated by name. This leaves the general term "Force Field", w/o the 'magic' qualifier, to be used to mean tech FF's.

I for one would rather an argument about the mechanics then over misunderstood words, but then I tried not to have an argument at all.

flatline wrote:BRP?

-flatline

Basic Role Playing...the D100 system put out by Chaosium and used for Call of Cthulhu and some other games (Magic World, Stormbringer, RuneQuest...kinda).

-STS

Damian Magecraft wrote:

The Artist Formerly wrote:

slade the sniper wrote:I agree with you TAF...it also helps if you are going to convert to other games that have a damage reduction mechanic like Cyberpunk or BRP...

-STS

That damage soak idea is awesome. I've had fights where my character is beat to hell but his armor is perfect due to powers and combat skills (dodge/auto-dodge or parry). For most supers, it keeps the status-quo (puny human), makes cops vs thugs better emulate real world situations and maintains a reason to wear armor.

of course the soak mechanic has its own quirks as well...
you can end up with the situation where the armor is in tatters and has only 3 or 4 sdc remaining but is still able to soak 15 (AR 15) points of damage.

I resolved that little issue by having the AR drop by 1 point after losing a certain amount of sdc.
The formula for that would be SDC/AR = drop rate.
Ex: Riot Vest - AR: 10 SDC: 60 (60/10 = 6) Drop rate is 1 point of AR for every 6 points of SDC lost.

Another issue that crops up: What about armors that do not provide full body protection? I use the all hits are to main body unless a successful called shot is made (I also house rule that a missed called shot is a straight up miss not a default to main body like the canon rules state) to cover that and use the AR as the base target number for the called shot and add modifiers for difficulty from that point.

I use the AR to denote the amount of damage that it can stop...up to the limit of the SDC...so a vest with an AR of 10 and SDC of 250 gets hit by something doing 45 damage...so the vest stops 10 damage, but the other 45 damage goes through...and the SDC of the vest is reduced to 240 (the 10 damage it stops, reduces the SDC by 10).

"It isn't a perfect system, Cyberpunk's staged penetration works better IMO, but, it's a workaround I use when GM'ing Palladium stuff.

I also use the "missed called shot = miss" house rule as well.

-STS

slade the sniper wrote:

flatline wrote:BRP?

-flatline

Basic Role Playing...the D100 system put out by Chaosium and used for Call of Cthulhu and some other games (Magic World, Stormbringer, RuneQuest...kinda).

-STS

Ahh....I've got the non-d20 Call Of Cthulhu, I'll have to flip through it again. I don't really remember much about the system.

--flatline

I just specked up a new Grey Fox suit for the game tomorrow. Looking forward to giving it a full try tomorrow. It appears I'm fighting ninja!

The Artist Formerly wrote:I just specked up a new Grey Fox suit for the game tomorrow. Looking forward to giving it a full try tomorrow. It appears I'm fighting ninja!

Stats please or it doesn't exist!

Yeah, I've always house-ruled this, since the official rules don't make any sense. Roll above the AR, damage direct to the person inside. A roll equal or below the AR and armor takes the damage. This effectively says that the person inside can take damage without the armor receiving a scratch, which doesn't make any sense at all.

I've just ignored AR all together and declared that, unless it's a called shot to an unprotected limb or head, the armor absorbs all damage until it's SDC is depleted.

DeadTOm wrote:Yeah, I've always house-ruled this, since the official rules don't make any sense. Roll above the AR, damage direct to the person inside. A roll equal or below the AR and armor takes the damage. This effectively says that the person inside can take damage without the armor receiving a scratch, which doesn't make any sense at all.

I've just ignored AR all together and declared that, unless it's a called shot to an unprotected limb or head, the armor absorbs all damage until it's SDC is depleted.

Oh! You just gave me an idea: Below the A.R., the armor takes all the damage. Over the A.R., the armor absorbs damage equal to the A.R. number, and any over that goes through. Maybe I'll play with this in my next game.

Glistam wrote:

DeadTOm wrote:Yeah, I've always house-ruled this, since the official rules don't make any sense. Roll above the AR, damage direct to the person inside. A roll equal or below the AR and armor takes the damage. This effectively says that the person inside can take damage without the armor receiving a scratch, which doesn't make any sense at all.

I've just ignored AR all together and declared that, unless it's a called shot to an unprotected limb or head, the armor absorbs all damage until it's SDC is depleted.

Oh! You just gave me an idea: Below the A.R., the armor takes all the damage. Over the A.R., the armor absorbs damage equal to the A.R. number, and any over that goes through. Maybe I'll play with this in my next game.

it works out pretty well.

NMI wrote:

The Artist Formerly wrote:I just specked up a new Grey Fox suit for the game tomorrow. Looking forward to giving it a full try tomorrow. It appears I'm fighting ninja!

Stats please or it doesn't exist!

First, inverse ninja law was totally a proven. CONFIRMED.

Second, how could I pass up a order from the head mod, who's kindly resisted banning me despite the numerous times I've earned it.

Here's a somewhat related question. How would you guys, as GM, manage the effects of ridiculously sharp blades on Natural Armor Rating (not robotic or artificial armor)?

These are blades so sharp that most people don't even register having been cut until they see the blood. So sharp that flesh offers no resistance, and the blade usually doesn't stop until it hits bone. I'm talking brain surgery sharp. But made into something like arrowheads

There's already a guide for this in the Heroes Unlimited Game Master's Guide, in the adventure "Not a Star in the Sky." It discusses Darkblades, and how they interact with A.R.. Darkblades are from Nightbane and are so magically sharp that they slice through anything.

Glistam wrote:There's already a guide for this in the Heroes Unlimited Game Master's Guide, in the adventure "Not a Star in the Sky." It discusses Darkblades, and how they interact with A.R.. Darkblades are from Nightbane and are so magically sharp that they slice through anything.

I have read that, and it is a good example of how to deal with magically sharp blades. Sadly, many GMs seem to find a difference between magically sharpened and non-magically sharpened.

What armor rating a Space ship needs to be to survivre re-entry in Earth,s Atmosphere?

I would think that the ability to survive atmospheric entry is more a question of aerodynamics than AR.

-STS

gaby wrote:What armor rating a Space ship needs to be to survive re-entry in Earth,s Atmosphere?

The thing is....When you de-orbit a spacecraft the thing that matters is the speed the craft is going when it enters an atmosphere.

A ship that is Stopped relative to the planet and just falls will not experience the fireball that space craft that use the atmosphere to slow it from orbital speeds. Think Ansari X-Prize winner 'spaceship one'.

There is also "Is there a drive supporting the ship while it is descending through the atmosphere" to considered. Something like the the SDF-1 can enter the atmosphere without causing a fireball if it going slow enough because it has a form of anti-gravity drives.

So in the form you asked, you question can not be answered.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

gaby wrote:What armor rating a Space ship needs to be to survive re-entry in Earth,s Atmosphere?

The thing is....When you de-orbit a spacecraft the thing that matters is the speed the craft is going when it enters an atmosphere.

A ship that is Stopped relative to the planet and just falls will not experience the fireball that space craft that use the atmosphere to slow it from orbital speeds. Think Ansari X-Prize winner 'spaceship one'.

There is also "Is there a drive supporting the ship while it is descending through the atmosphere" to considered. Something like the the SDF-1 can enter the atmosphere without causing a fireball if it going slow enough because it has a form of anti-gravity drives.

So in the form you asked, you question can not be answered.

to expand upon this.

if a spacecraft can generate thrust in excess of gravity, it can "fly" into space as long as the fuel supply is sufficient to maintain thrust long enough.

conversely if a craft can generate enough thrust, it does not need to perform "aerobraking" maneuvers which is what generated the "fireballs" we see with our current spacecraft. for example if the craft had enough thrust, and fuel supply it could match proper motion speeds with the earth, and "cruise down through the atmosphere at say 1 mph, granted it might be stupid, and use a lot of fuel to do so, but it is theoretically possible"