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dantelebeau wrote:I am either blind or just don't get it.

Our GM wants us to roll up powerful characters, letting us pick Godling RCC and then take an OCC if we like.

I've rolled up my Godling RCC, and then say I want to take the Battle Magus OCC. Would i get ALL the beneifts? Increased PPE, skills the works, or is our GM breaking the system and we need to figure it out on our own

Your GM is bending the system pretty close to breaking, you'll have to ask him how he wants you to handle the benefits of the OCC on top of the RCC. However, I would point out that Godlings are not eligible for the Battle Magus OCC by a strict reading of the rules since they aren't mortal SDC beings.

dantelebeau wrote:I am either blind or just don't get it.

Our GM wants us to roll up powerful characters, letting us pick Godling RCC and then take an OCC if we like.

I've rolled up my Godling RCC, and then say I want to take the Battle Magus OCC. Would i get ALL the beneifts? Increased PPE, skills the works, or is our GM breaking the system and we need to figure it out on our own

What he means is to take the Godling Race then to take a OCC.
You drop the class stuff (skills) from the Godling text.

There is the question about whether you can take Battle magus....can it be taken by a SN being? an MDC creature?

dantelebeau wrote:I am either blind or just don't get it.

Our GM wants us to roll up powerful characters, letting us pick Godling RCC and then take an OCC if we like.

I've rolled up my Godling RCC, and then say I want to take the Battle Magus OCC. Would i get ALL the beneifts? Increased PPE, skills the works, or is our GM breaking the system and we need to figure it out on our own

Your going to have to ask your GM for that one. Since its a total house rule....and not possible with the Rules As Written....
You will have to ask how they want to do it.

There's some precedent for this. SoT4: CK had all kinds of RCCs becoming cyber-knights.

Hotrod wrote:There's some precedent for this. SoT4: CK had all kinds of RCCs becoming cyber-knights.

Nope....all sorts of Races can be a cyber-knight.

By strict reading of the book A Godling can't be a lot of Magic OCCs....but that is mostly7 because the book was written long before lot of newer Magic OCCs and thus are not included. There is zero reason that they could not become other Magic OCCs.

While technically the Godling cannot take an OCC, it sound smore like they should be using the Demi God as that class CAN take an OCC on top of the RCC abilities and such.

jaymz wrote:snip..

While technically the Godling cannot take an OCC, it sounds more like they should be using the Demi God as that class CAN take an OCC on top of the RCC abilities and such.

Yep, the Demigod can...must.. take a class (occ or pcc) in addition to having their Natural Abilities. It is not like the Godlings in that it does not have an RCC associated with it.

eliakon wrote:

dantelebeau wrote:I am either blind or just don't get it.

Our GM wants us to roll up powerful characters, letting us pick Godling RCC and then take an OCC if we like.

I've rolled up my Godling RCC, and then say I want to take the Battle Magus OCC. Would i get ALL the beneifts? Increased PPE, skills the works, or is our GM breaking the system and we need to figure it out on our own

Your going to have to ask your GM for that one. Since its a total house rule....and not possible with the Rules As Written....
You will have to ask how they want to do it.

I agree GM is going to have to tell you how he wants them merged together.

May I suggest that you take take the magic power twice, select a two element warlock for each and become a double-double warlock (air, earth, fire, & water) and for your 3rd godling power take psi powers (one full category and 5 supers) and THEN if your GM still approves an OCC also add Battle Magus... or if you haven't got your heart set on the BM then go with Temporal Warrior or Temporal wizard. I mean if we are maxing out the character lets do it up good!

Galroth wrote:

dantelebeau wrote:I am either blind or just don't get it.

Our GM wants us to roll up powerful characters, letting us pick Godling RCC and then take an OCC if we like.

I've rolled up my Godling RCC, and then say I want to take the Battle Magus OCC. Would i get ALL the beneifts? Increased PPE, skills the works, or is our GM breaking the system and we need to figure it out on our own

Your GM is bending the system pretty close to breaking, you'll have to ask him how he wants you to handle the benefits of the OCC on top of the RCC. However, I would point out that Godlings are not eligible for the Battle Magus OCC by a strict reading of the rules since they aren't mortal SDC beings.

That also makes demigods ineligible.

A Battle Magus MUST be a MORTAL SDC creature, however Temporal Wizards have no such limitations.

dragonfett wrote:A Battle Magus MUST be a MORTAL SDC creature, however Temporal Wizards have no such limitations.

Which is why a double-double warlock with psi powers should become a temporal OCC of some sort if they have the option of also selecting an OCC.

Technically that would not be possible but the confusion is understandable. The term RCC has suffered a LOT of drift over the years. Originally if you had an RCC then that is what you were and you had no other options a dragon is always a dragon RCC not a dragon operator or a dragon ley line walker.

Over the years though as new occ's pop up there have been some odd ball edge cases that have appeared such as faerie bots in black market can take the black maker refurbisher OCC with some pretty major questions as to what all that really entails for merging the two.

It also is made murkier but a lot of DBees like elves were treated initially like races from older RPG games even though sometimes they were called RCC they just worked like humans as a starting race with in general normal options for OCC's. Over the years we have seen some of those wind up with their own RCC's as well but the RCC winds up being treated more like a racial OCC.

So in the case of godlings they are along the more traditional lines like dragons a godling is not a godling + an occ a godling is a godling and thats it. But its easy enough to see a GM allowing the option but if they do its a house rule and both you and they are going to have to be careful on how they get merged or it could wind up super twinky.

Thinyser wrote:May I suggest that you take take the magic power twice, select a two element warlock for each and become a double-double warlock (air, earth, fire, & water) and for your 3rd godling power take psi powers (one full category and 5 supers) and THEN if your GM still approves an OCC also add Battle Magus... or if you haven't got your heart set on the BM then go with Temporal Warrior or Temporal wizard. I mean if we are maxing out the character lets do it up good!

nah, double warlock doesn't gain you much. dual earth-air gets you like 90% of what you want out of warlock. fire and water don't have much to add once you've got those. i'd much rather grab up standard invocations as a second magic power. elemental magic is great, but there are just some really awesome things you can add with standard invocation magic on the side.

As nice as some of the stuff you gain from water about the only thing that the earth air would not cover already is a resurrection spell.

I would agree taking standard invocation magic would make more sense than a third warlock flavor. With earth and air you have all the combat/battle field magics you could hope for and good summonable minions. Picking up standard invocation magic opens up a lot of the general utility spells to flesh out your options.

A member of an RCC can apparently become an OCC, just like you can take an OCC and then later change to another.
There are several NPC examples of this sort of thing happening.

kaid wrote:As nice as some of the stuff you gain from water about the only thing that the earth air would not cover already is a resurrection spell.

I would agree taking standard invocation magic would make more sense than a third warlock flavor. With earth and air you have all the combat/battle field magics you could hope for and good summonable minions. Picking up standard invocation magic opens up a lot of the general utility spells to flesh out your options.

air gets a resurrection spell, actually.

water has no such spell, and fire only heals people who are mostly dead (though on the plus side, it is also boasts a 100% success rate).

(and on a side note, it wouldn't be a third type of elemental magic... it would be a third and fourth. one selection gives you spellcasting equal to a warlock. one warlock can have two elements, just normally the drawbacks outweigh the benefits... but demigods and godlings iirc learn all spells, so the normal drawback is completely removed).

Shark_Force wrote:

kaid wrote:As nice as some of the stuff you gain from water about the only thing that the earth air would not cover already is a resurrection spell.

I would agree taking standard invocation magic would make more sense than a third warlock flavor. With earth and air you have all the combat/battle field magics you could hope for and good summonable minions. Picking up standard invocation magic opens up a lot of the general utility spells to flesh out your options.

air gets a resurrection spell, actually.

water has no such spell, and fire only heals people who are mostly dead (though on the plus side, it is also boasts a 100% success rate).

(and on a side note, it wouldn't be a third type of elemental magic... it would be a third and fourth. one selection gives you spellcasting equal to a warlock. one warlock can have two elements, just normally the drawbacks outweigh the benefits... but demigods and godlings iirc learn all spells, so the normal drawback is completely removed).

I thought that was water that had the level four res spell I could be wrong though as I am at work and don't have the book handy.

Shark_Force wrote:

kaid wrote:As nice as some of the stuff you gain from water about the only thing that the earth air would not cover already is a resurrection spell.

I would agree taking standard invocation magic would make more sense than a third warlock flavor. With earth and air you have all the combat/battle field magics you could hope for and good summonable minions. Picking up standard invocation magic opens up a lot of the general utility spells to flesh out your options.

air gets a resurrection spell, actually.

water has no such spell, and fire only heals people who are mostly dead (though on the plus side, it is also boasts a 100% success rate).

(and on a side note, it wouldn't be a third type of elemental magic... it would be a third and fourth. one selection gives you spellcasting equal to a warlock. one warlock can have two elements, just normally the drawbacks outweigh the benefits... but demigods and godlings iirc learn all spells, so the normal drawback is completely removed).

Partially correct. Godlings get 3 power selections, for the first you chose warlock and specialize in air and water, the second you select warlock and specialize in fire and earth. for the 3rd you can pick whatever you want (invocation magic or psi powers are both good choices) I like temporal magic. And as you level you get all the spells for your chosen magic "classes" up to your level avoiding the disadvantages to taking 2 elements. Of course the fact that you are taking opposing elements is illegal by the book but meh its a small technicality, also I think that other magic "classes" like temporal magic, techno wizardry, etc. should be open to godlings.

Thinyser wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:

kaid wrote:As nice as some of the stuff you gain from water about the only thing that the earth air would not cover already is a resurrection spell.

I would agree taking standard invocation magic would make more sense than a third warlock flavor. With earth and air you have all the combat/battle field magics you could hope for and good summonable minions. Picking up standard invocation magic opens up a lot of the general utility spells to flesh out your options.

air gets a resurrection spell, actually.

water has no such spell, and fire only heals people who are mostly dead (though on the plus side, it is also boasts a 100% success rate).

(and on a side note, it wouldn't be a third type of elemental magic... it would be a third and fourth. one selection gives you spellcasting equal to a warlock. one warlock can have two elements, just normally the drawbacks outweigh the benefits... but demigods and godlings iirc learn all spells, so the normal drawback is completely removed).

Partially correct. Godlings get 3 power selections, for the first you chose warlock and specialize in air and water, the second you select warlock and specialize in fire and earth. for the 3rd you can pick whatever you want (invocation magic or psi powers are both good choices) I like temporal magic. And as you level you get all the spells for your chosen magic "classes" up to your level avoiding the disadvantages to taking 2 elements. Of course the fact that you are taking opposing elements is illegal by the book but meh its a small technicality, also I think that other magic "classes" like temporal magic, techno wizardry, etc. should be open to godlings.

Unless they've done some sort of retcon there is no such thing as 'opposing elements' for Warlocks in Palladium so you can have an Earth/Air Warlock for example without difficulty. Indeed there's the spell that animates clay animals that makes use of the air warlock spell breathe of life to make them into flesh-like living creatures for the duration. You also can't pick Warlock twice and another magical OCC as you're limited to just two magical selections so it's either all Warlock or some Warlock and another Magical OCC.

Nightmask wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:

kaid wrote:As nice as some of the stuff you gain from water about the only thing that the earth air would not cover already is a resurrection spell.

I would agree taking standard invocation magic would make more sense than a third warlock flavor. With earth and air you have all the combat/battle field magics you could hope for and good summonable minions. Picking up standard invocation magic opens up a lot of the general utility spells to flesh out your options.

air gets a resurrection spell, actually.

water has no such spell, and fire only heals people who are mostly dead (though on the plus side, it is also boasts a 100% success rate).

(and on a side note, it wouldn't be a third type of elemental magic... it would be a third and fourth. one selection gives you spellcasting equal to a warlock. one warlock can have two elements, just normally the drawbacks outweigh the benefits... but demigods and godlings iirc learn all spells, so the normal drawback is completely removed).

Partially correct. Godlings get 3 power selections, for the first you chose warlock and specialize in air and water, the second you select warlock and specialize in fire and earth. for the 3rd you can pick whatever you want (invocation magic or psi powers are both good choices) I like temporal magic. And as you level you get all the spells for your chosen magic "classes" up to your level avoiding the disadvantages to taking 2 elements. Of course the fact that you are taking opposing elements is illegal by the book but meh its a small technicality, also I think that other magic "classes" like temporal magic, techno wizardry, etc. should be open to godlings.

Unless they've done some sort of retcon there is no such thing as 'opposing elements' for Warlocks in Palladium so you can have an Earth/Air Warlock for example without difficulty. Indeed there's the spell that animates clay animals that makes use of the air warlock spell breathe of life to make them into flesh-like living creatures for the duration. You also can't pick Warlock twice and another magical OCC as you're limited to just two magical selections so it's either all Warlock or some Warlock and another Magical OCC.

I stand corrected on the "opposing elements" I swear that I read that somewhere but I cannot find it. And yeah I know you cannot take the magic option more than twice by the book but it seems that this GM is fudging the rules anyhow so hey I was gonna run with it!

Thinyser wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:

kaid wrote:As nice as some of the stuff you gain from water about the only thing that the earth air would not cover already is a resurrection spell.

I would agree taking standard invocation magic would make more sense than a third warlock flavor. With earth and air you have all the combat/battle field magics you could hope for and good summonable minions. Picking up standard invocation magic opens up a lot of the general utility spells to flesh out your options.

air gets a resurrection spell, actually.

water has no such spell, and fire only heals people who are mostly dead (though on the plus side, it is also boasts a 100% success rate).

(and on a side note, it wouldn't be a third type of elemental magic... it would be a third and fourth. one selection gives you spellcasting equal to a warlock. one warlock can have two elements, just normally the drawbacks outweigh the benefits... but demigods and godlings iirc learn all spells, so the normal drawback is completely removed).

Partially correct. Godlings get 3 power selections, for the first you chose warlock and specialize in air and water, the second you select warlock and specialize in fire and earth. for the 3rd you can pick whatever you want (invocation magic or psi powers are both good choices) I like temporal magic. And as you level you get all the spells for your chosen magic "classes" up to your level avoiding the disadvantages to taking 2 elements. Of course the fact that you are taking opposing elements is illegal by the book but meh its a small technicality, also I think that other magic "classes" like temporal magic, techno wizardry, etc. should be open to godlings.

Unless they've done some sort of retcon there is no such thing as 'opposing elements' for Warlocks in Palladium so you can have an Earth/Air Warlock for example without difficulty. Indeed there's the spell that animates clay animals that makes use of the air warlock spell breathe of life to make them into flesh-like living creatures for the duration. You also can't pick Warlock twice and another magical OCC as you're limited to just two magical selections so it's either all Warlock or some Warlock and another Magical OCC.

I stand corrected on the "opposing elements" I swear that I read that somewhere but I cannot find it. And yeah I know you cannot take the magic option more than twice by the book but it seems that this GM is fudging the rules anyhow so hey I was gonna run with it!

Maybe you're thinking of HU2, where you can't have certain mutant powers active at the same time.

The Beast wrote:Maybe you're thinking of HU2, where you can't have certain mutant powers active at the same time.

Nope it was definitely only about opposing elements not mixing... maybe it was an old GM's ruling that stuck in my head as canon but wasn't.

dantelebeau wrote:I am either blind or just don't get it.

Our GM wants us to roll up powerful characters, letting us pick Godling RCC and then take an OCC if we like.

I've rolled up my Godling RCC, and then say I want to take the Battle Magus OCC. Would i get ALL the beneifts? Increased PPE, skills the works, or is our GM breaking the system and we need to figure it out on our own

Don't worry, the game won't last long, just go along with the group These type of super powerful games NEVER last. The average GM is just not capable of challenging a high powered group for long.

It sounds like a fun concept on paper. I wouldn't allow you to combine a class like Battle Magus that specifically says no MDC characters, but hey, I wouldn't let a godling have an occ either.

If I were in the game, I would make a samurai godling, using the WB Japan. I always like the godling option #10, and would take it twice, the other option would depend on what stats I rolled. A mdc samurai with magic... wow.

Godling with spatial mage OCC

Had a toon once like this, in a high powered PW campaign. it lasted 8 months till we decided to go back to our previous campaign which lasted 5 years.

I like the all four elements idea. You'd be like Captain Planet.

Thinyser wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:

kaid wrote:As nice as some of the stuff you gain from water about the only thing that the earth air would not cover already is a resurrection spell.

I would agree taking standard invocation magic would make more sense than a third warlock flavor. With earth and air you have all the combat/battle field magics you could hope for and good summonable minions. Picking up standard invocation magic opens up a lot of the general utility spells to flesh out your options.

air gets a resurrection spell, actually.

water has no such spell, and fire only heals people who are mostly dead (though on the plus side, it is also boasts a 100% success rate).

(and on a side note, it wouldn't be a third type of elemental magic... it would be a third and fourth. one selection gives you spellcasting equal to a warlock. one warlock can have two elements, just normally the drawbacks outweigh the benefits... but demigods and godlings iirc learn all spells, so the normal drawback is completely removed).

Partially correct. Godlings get 3 power selections, for the first you chose warlock and specialize in air and water, the second you select warlock and specialize in fire and earth. for the 3rd you can pick whatever you want (invocation magic or psi powers are both good choices) I like temporal magic. And as you level you get all the spells for your chosen magic "classes" up to your level avoiding the disadvantages to taking 2 elements. Of course the fact that you are taking opposing elements is illegal by the book but meh its a small technicality, also I think that other magic "classes" like temporal magic, techno wizardry, etc. should be open to godlings.

Unless they've done some sort of retcon there is no such thing as 'opposing elements' for Warlocks in Palladium so you can have an Earth/Air Warlock for example without difficulty. Indeed there's the spell that animates clay animals that makes use of the air warlock spell breathe of life to make them into flesh-like living creatures for the duration. You also can't pick Warlock twice and another magical OCC as you're limited to just two magical selections so it's either all Warlock or some Warlock and another Magical OCC.

I stand corrected on the "opposing elements" I swear that I read that somewhere but I cannot find it. And yeah I know you cannot take the magic option more than twice by the book but it seems that this GM is fudging the rules anyhow so hey I was gonna run with it!

Well the concept kind of exists with elemental fusionist except they MUST take opposite elemental focuses so air/earth or fire/water.

My quick system for doing this is to make the character whatever the RCC is but don't take any related or secondary skills. Then add the OCC abilities (if it isn't in the form of a bonus add the difference from a generic human character. So if the RCC has 5d6 PPE and vagabonds have 2d6 ppe add 3d6 to the PPE). Next add the OCC skills. For every redundant skill the character gets 1 OCC or RCC related skill. No secondary skills.

kaid wrote:Technically that would not be possible but the confusion is understandable. The term RCC has suffered a LOT of drift over the years. Originally if you had an RCC then that is what you were and you had no other options a dragon is always a dragon RCC not a dragon operator or a dragon ley line walker.

Over the years though as new occ's pop up there have been some odd ball edge cases that have appeared such as faerie bots in black market can take the black maker refurbisher OCC with some pretty major questions as to what all that really entails for merging the two.

It also is made murkier but a lot of DBees like elves were treated initially like races from older RPG games even though sometimes they were called RCC they just worked like humans as a starting race with in general normal options for OCC's. Over the years we have seen some of those wind up with their own RCC's as well but the RCC winds up being treated more like a racial OCC.

So in the case of godlings they are along the more traditional lines like dragons a godling is not a godling + an occ a godling is a godling and thats it. But its easy enough to see a GM allowing the option but if they do its a house rule and both you and they are going to have to be careful on how they get merged or it could wind up super twinky.

Yes, if there were ever a true second edition, this is one of the things which really needs to be sorted out as new players are not knowledgeable as to the evolution of terms since the 1990s. The best way to look at this topic today is:

- A Race is a set of biological stats (8 attributes, S/MDC, HP, Height, Weight, etc...what God/Darwin gave you at birth), and possible abilities that come automatically to that race (like a mutant dog boy's ability to sense magic use), regardless of the character class picked up. A Race may have restrictions to what Occupational Character Class it can take (A Brodkil can never be a Juicer). Just think, "Is this something the character was *born/created* with, or is this something learned?"
- You can only have one Character Class. Character Classes are your Learned knowledge (Skills, a Ley Line Walker's spells, a Vagabond's ability to Eyeball a Fella), and/or Granted abilities (A Juicer's bonus to speed, a Crazy's autododge bonus, a mystic's ISP/PPE base and psionic powers/spells).
-- Occupational Character Classes are usually open to any race, unless the race cannot select it. Some OCCs like T-Men and Juicers are restricted to specific races, making them some sort of mix between an OCC and an RCC.
-- Racial Character Classes are lists of skills and abilities that are restricted to a particular race or set of races (like a Gromek Life Force Wizard from Palladium Fantasy).

This makes it possible to have TWO sets of special/natural abilities, your Race's abilities and your Character Class' abilities; like a Scarecrow's ability to only be damaged by fire, and be a Burster which makes him immune to fire.

Kagashi wrote:
Yes, if there were ever a true second edition, this is one of the things which really needs to be sorted out as new players are not knowledgeable as to the evolution of terms since the 1990s. The best way to look at this topic today is:

- A Race is a set of biological stats (8 attributes, S/MDC, HP, Height, Weight, etc...what God/Darwin gave you at birth), and possible abilities that come automatically to that race (like a mutant dog boy's ability to sense magic use), regardless of the character class picked up. A Race may have restrictions to what Occupational Character Class it can take (A Brodkil can never be a Juicer). Just think, "Is this something the character was *born/created* with, or is this something learned?"
- You can only have one Character Class. Character Classes are your Learned knowledge (Skills, a Ley Line Walker's spells, a Vagabond's ability to Eyeball a Fella), and/or Granted abilities (A Juicer's bonus to speed, a Crazy's autododge bonus, a mystic's ISP/PPE base and psionic powers/spells).
-- Occupational Character Classes are usually open to any race, unless the race cannot select it. Some OCCs like T-Men and Juicers are restricted to specific races, making them some sort of mix between an OCC and an RCC.
-- Racial Character Classes are lists of skills and abilities that are restricted to a particular race or set of races (like a Gromek Life Force Wizard from Palladium Fantasy).

This makes it possible to have TWO sets of special/natural abilities, your Race's abilities and your Character Class' abilities; like a Scarecrow's ability to only be damaged by fire, and be a Burster which makes him immune to fire.

That is pretty much how I play it also. But I generally don't give them the option of taking an RCC and an OCC they get one or the other combined with a Races stats and abilities (unless they choose to double class and freeze their RCC to take an OCC). The stats and special abilities from a race combined with an OCC and all of its learned knowledge and abilities is still a potent combo.

EDIT: My favorite Race/OCC combo that I have personally played is a Silhouette Temporal Warrior. The Race abilities of darkness powers, LLW powers, & high racial PPE combined with the badassery of the Temporal Warrior made this dude so fun to play. He had twin battle fury blades and a good list of spells to boost his attacks per melee and combat bonuses so he was a blender in melee combat and super sneaky too.

Hmm, mines a custom (rather than random) Nightspawn N&S Gizmoteer my second also a Nightspawn is an N&S agent

Zer0 Kay wrote:Hmm, mines a custom (rather than random) Nightspawn N&S Gizmoteer my second also a Nightspawn is an N&S agent

I think I'm detecting a theme here... you really like Ninjas & Superspies, don't you?

Glistam wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:Hmm, mines a custom (rather than random) Nightspawn N&S Gizmoteer my second also a Nightspawn is an N&S agent

I think I'm detecting a theme here... you really like Ninjas & Superspies, don't you?

Lol, really out of that u pick up N&S instead of Nightspawn?

My all time favorite character isn't even mine. A player in one of my games was playing a mystic that used all his PPE on spellse for his introduction. The character was a nuts.

But I thought we were talking about things that frequently have an RCC but takes an OCC.

kaid wrote:Technically that would not be possible but the confusion is understandable. The term RCC has suffered a LOT of drift over the years. Originally if you had an RCC then that is what you were and you had no other options a dragon is always a dragon RCC not a dragon operator or a dragon ley line walker.

Over the years though as new occ's pop up there have been some odd ball edge cases that have appeared such as faerie bots in black market can take the black maker refurbisher OCC with some pretty major questions as to what all that really entails for merging the two.

It also is made murkier but a lot of DBees like elves were treated initially like races from older RPG games even though sometimes they were called RCC they just worked like humans as a starting race with in general normal options for OCC's. Over the years we have seen some of those wind up with their own RCC's as well but the RCC winds up being treated more like a racial OCC.

So in the case of godlings they are along the more traditional lines like dragons a godling is not a godling + an occ a godling is a godling and thats it. But its easy enough to see a GM allowing the option but if they do its a house rule and both you and they are going to have to be careful on how they get merged or it could wind up super twinky.

Since when? RCC has always been a class that is only available to a specific race the hatchling dragon is the only class they can take. Psi stalker is a human RCC only humans can mutate into them. Dogpack is a class only mutant dogs can take.

Dragons can't become Dogboys even if they look like one. A human can't be a dragon hatchling and a dogboy can't become a psi stalker.

The big question is for races that are only presented as RCCs, then how do they become something else.

I've always allowed players to take a race only presented as an RCC by using stats, physical powers not described as part of the RCC. No skills, unless they're described as intrinsic to the race.

In the usage in ALL of PB's megaverse gamebooks, the Label "RCC" has been used for 1) a Class that every member of the race "HAS to BE" (whether it be inherited class or way of life class), 2) for a Class that is restrictied to only one race, 3) a class limited to "family/group/clan", 4) in Rifts as an offical mislabling of PCC's and 5) as a label for a Race.
Most of the "problems" come from the smooshing together a Race and it's RCC into one artical and calling the whole an RCC.

Because of all these mutiple usages of the same label things can get confusing which use is which why dislike it, as it has been used.

examples
1a) dragons
1b) Psi-Stalkers classes, Mind Bleeder.
2) The Lemuria classes and the Promithian classes.
3) Akimi Stoneman Dualist, Psi-Ghost.
4) Mind melter, Nega-Psychic. Psi-Druid, Burster etc...etc...etc....
5) Ice Bearmen.

*Rue Note:Yes, I know in RUE changed their mislabeling of PCC's from RCC to OCC, so don't get your nickers in a twist cause I've been talking about how they have been mislabeled in the past and you only have RUE. Fortunately Kevin was upfront about the current mislabeling was done to fit a style filter.

I've seen official dragons with classes. Though I prefer the PCC I understand where they were going with it. You can't learn how to be a psychic your born with it or somehow modified, either way making it a part of your DNA. Crazies are an occ because they just install. Soda cans and tadah.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Hmm, mines a custom (rather than random) Nightspawn N&S Gizmoteer my second also a Nightspawn is an N&S agent

I did have a custom Nightspawn that was set up as sniper who was pretty darn fun also.

Thinyser wrote:

Kagashi wrote:
Yes, if there were ever a true second edition, this is one of the things which really needs to be sorted out as new players are not knowledgeable as to the evolution of terms since the 1990s. The best way to look at this topic today is:

- A Race is a set of biological stats (8 attributes, S/MDC, HP, Height, Weight, etc...what God/Darwin gave you at birth), and possible abilities that come automatically to that race (like a mutant dog boy's ability to sense magic use), regardless of the character class picked up. A Race may have restrictions to what Occupational Character Class it can take (A Brodkil can never be a Juicer). Just think, "Is this something the character was *born/created* with, or is this something learned?"
- You can only have one Character Class. Character Classes are your Learned knowledge (Skills, a Ley Line Walker's spells, a Vagabond's ability to Eyeball a Fella), and/or Granted abilities (A Juicer's bonus to speed, a Crazy's autododge bonus, a mystic's ISP/PPE base and psionic powers/spells).
-- Occupational Character Classes are usually open to any race, unless the race cannot select it. Some OCCs like T-Men and Juicers are restricted to specific races, making them some sort of mix between an OCC and an RCC.
-- Racial Character Classes are lists of skills and abilities that are restricted to a particular race or set of races (like a Gromek Life Force Wizard from Palladium Fantasy).

This makes it possible to have TWO sets of special/natural abilities, your Race's abilities and your Character Class' abilities; like a Scarecrow's ability to only be damaged by fire, and be a Burster which makes him immune to fire.

That is pretty much how I play it also. But I generally don't give them the option of taking an RCC and an OCC they get one or the other combined with a Races stats and abilities (unless they choose to double class and freeze their RCC to take an OCC). The stats and special abilities from a race combined with an OCC and all of its learned knowledge and abilities is still a potent combo.

Neither do I. You get one Character Class, be it Occupational or Racial, you only get one. But its still possible to have abilities from both your race and your character class. For example, a Gromek Combat Mage would not only have Hawk Like Vision and +2 attacks (Racial), but he would also have to spells associated with being a Combat Mage (Occupational).

Kagashi wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Kagashi wrote:
Yes, if there were ever a true second edition, this is one of the things which really needs to be sorted out as new players are not knowledgeable as to the evolution of terms since the 1990s. The best way to look at this topic today is:

- A Race is a set of biological stats (8 attributes, S/MDC, HP, Height, Weight, etc...what God/Darwin gave you at birth), and possible abilities that come automatically to that race (like a mutant dog boy's ability to sense magic use), regardless of the character class picked up. A Race may have restrictions to what Occupational Character Class it can take (A Brodkil can never be a Juicer). Just think, "Is this something the character was *born/created* with, or is this something learned?"
- You can only have one Character Class. Character Classes are your Learned knowledge (Skills, a Ley Line Walker's spells, a Vagabond's ability to Eyeball a Fella), and/or Granted abilities (A Juicer's bonus to speed, a Crazy's autododge bonus, a mystic's ISP/PPE base and psionic powers/spells).
-- Occupational Character Classes are usually open to any race, unless the race cannot select it. Some OCCs like T-Men and Juicers are restricted to specific races, making them some sort of mix between an OCC and an RCC.
-- Racial Character Classes are lists of skills and abilities that are restricted to a particular race or set of races (like a Gromek Life Force Wizard from Palladium Fantasy).

This makes it possible to have TWO sets of special/natural abilities, your Race's abilities and your Character Class' abilities; like a Scarecrow's ability to only be damaged by fire, and be a Burster which makes him immune to fire.

That is pretty much how I play it also. But I generally don't give them the option of taking an RCC and an OCC they get one or the other combined with a Races stats and abilities (unless they choose to double class and freeze their RCC to take an OCC). The stats and special abilities from a race combined with an OCC and all of its learned knowledge and abilities is still a potent combo.

Neither do I. You get one Character Class, be it Occupational or Racial, you only get one. But its still possible to have abilities from both your race and your character class. For example, a Gromek Combat Mage would not only have Hawk Like Vision and +2 attacks (Racial), but he would also have to spells associated with being a Combat Mage (Occupational).

Ooops I should have take the "but" out so it didn't imply that you DID allow 2 CCs. I understood what you said but was trying to say that I usually don't but if the player had a good backstory and wanted to freeze an RCC to switch to an OCC that I might allow it. I worded it poorly.

Thinyser wrote:
Ooops I should have take the "but" out so it didn't imply that you DID allow 2 CCs. I understood what you said but was trying to say that I usually don't but if the player had a good backstory and wanted to freeze an RCC to switch to an OCC that I might allow it. I worded it poorly.

Heh, yeah that makes more sense now. And, I concur with the freezing of the RCC to take an OCC later in the career of the character.

This topic can always make for interesting arguments/discussions. I try to treat races as races. Only if there is something in the stats or the fluff text that specifically states that this race cannot select an OCC for any reason, I treat them as a "locked" RCC. If there is no logical reason (or text) to stop a race from being something other than the norm, they can take an OCC. The books have had many discrepancies over the years. Tough Cookies. Could the books have more continuity? Probably, but there is still enough in the books that you should be able to get the gist. Occasionally there is a direct conflict and you have to make a call. Refer to rule # 1. I still love the system even with its flaws. I would not personally allow a godling+OCC, but I'm not running it. If it's good for your group, go with it. If you want magic, I would look into the Temporal Wizard options as noted previously. Wider range of spells available.

(edit for content)

This is an interesting topic.

The RAW make it clear that Godlings are an R.C.C. that is it's own intrinsic class that cannot take an O.C.C. There are R.C.C.'s that allow that, and the class immediately below it (Demigod R.C.C.) is one that can. Given that they are adjacent tot each other, I think it answers the question.

On the other hand, your GM is going for a power game. I've been there on a couple of occasions. In both instances, I used the Godling template.

My first outing, the GM allowed the Godling R.C.C. to use an O.C.C. He ruled that we had to do away with the skills it provided, but come up with a story that fit. I would not be raised aware of my full background. I played the Samurai character mentioned by another guy in this thread, with some significant differences.

I was a Godling if Raiden, and the GM gave me Impervious to Lighting, Mind Control and Possession powers for FREE, to reflect my parentage. I was only able to take the Super Strong, Super Tough, and Super Swift powers. Magic classes weren't allowed because it didn't fit my background, and I was raised a samurai, and they wouldn't have bothered to train me if they thought I had magical abilities (i.e. Ley Line Walker, Mind Melter, etcetera).

That character was a blast. We did all kinds of stuff, and the GM came up with a LOT of cool adventures for us. I made it to level 11 with the character. Tied for my favorite.

The other Godling was similar, and a different GM let me take an O.C.C. as an Atlantean. My mother was an Undead Slayer from clan Marciniszen. I was raised to be the same, and restricted from taking the magic and psionic powers again. If I wanted those, I'd have to remain a Godling straight up.

That character got to level 15. He was crazy powerful. I had like almost 40 tattoos, Godling stats, and rolled even better than the Samurai. He also got the Impervious to Mind Control, Possession and Lighting. His father was Zeus, and his race was already pretty resistant to the mind control/possession effects. I played him like his father, too. He'd save a city, teach them all to defend themselves, root out the bad guy (Master Vampire, Alien Intelligence, Demon Lord, etcetera), then sleep with the Mayor's wife.

But if I were going to allow such power houses in my game, I'd do it differently.

You have to consider the spirit of the rules when they made the R.C.C.'s in question.

Godling is too powerful for a starting character, so it doesn't get a starting O.C.C. But I WOULD let it take just about any two magic using classes that fit the character's back story and the deity that spawned you. As both classes allude to, I'd grant a couple of the rather crappy choices for powers that suit the parentage, then let you kind of choose your own, with the caveat that it had to fit the back story, and the back story had to fit my campaign (I almost always require more heroic, non-evil characters).

If you wanted an O.C.C., I'd direct you to the Demigod, and let you pick a power THAT MAKES SENSE to your back story, and I'd also let you have a couple of the powers that fit your parentage, such as being a shapeshifter if your daddy was Loki, or Supper-Strong of your father was Thor.

I almost certainly would NOT let you pull the double Warlock option, although it is legal (RAW). Mostly because I see EVERYONE taking that twinkie rout. I'm looking for a good story here, not min-maxing for the sake of it. Yes, it's already a power game, but let's put some reigns on it, shall we?

Another player in our group took the Godling class straight up, with his father being some obscure deity of magic. He had Ley Line Rifter (not Walker), Temporal Warrior, and was allowed to take Mind Melter. That guy was broken.

There are Godlings who have taken OCCs in canon, so I don't see why not... though they always had at least one level of Godling RCC before learning an OCC.
Kind of like switching OCCs.
Dragons have had the same treatment, in canon.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote: ↑Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:08 pm

Hotrod wrote:There's some precedent for this. SoT4: CK had all kinds of RCCs becoming cyber-knights.

Nope....all sorts of Races can be a cyber-knight.

It’s not quite that simple.

Rifts: Canada p133 gives R.C.C. skills and bonuses for the Grackle Tooth, though they also take O.C.C.’s. D’Norr Devilmen (p12 of Sorcerer’s Revenge) have similar “R.C.C.” skills and bonuses, and can also take O.C.C.’s. Interestingly, both of these species have “none” for psionics, which isn’t consistent with the distribution of psionics for Cyber-Knights, but both are canon Cyber-Knight species. Noli Bushmen also have R.C.C. bonuses and skills, and can be Cyber-Knights (they are all master psionics). The Demigod is an R.C.C. described in Pantheons of the Megaverse (p17) that can take an O.C.C., which could include Cyber-Knight.

If we look beyond the cyber-knight, there are lots of examples where an R.C.C. takes an O.C.C. Rama-Set is a 7th level necromancer, even though by canon Chiang-Ku dragons are their own R.C.C. (with some options for being a tattoo master or a spell-caster) and don’t take O.C.C.’s. Children of the Earth and Stars from Rifts England are described as O.C.C.’s and R.C.C.’s interchangeably in the text, and the source of their power (learned or inherited) is ambiguous.

I respect the argument that these aren’t “true R.C.C.’s,” but I think it’s oversimplifying things to say that these are races and not R.C.C.s, because those lines sometimes blur.

Hotrod wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:47 pm

drewkitty ~..~ wrote: ↑Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:08 pm

Hotrod wrote:There's some precedent for this. SoT4: CK had all kinds of RCCs becoming cyber-knights.

Nope....all sorts of Races can be a cyber-knight.

It’s not quite that simple.

.....
And he missed the point of what I posted. *yawn*

Maybe if there was a Human RCC where ALL humans have to be that RCC without being allowed to have any other Character Class at all for Races being "Called"' a 'Character Class' will seam 'out of place' to more people.

But then again someone necro'ed this topic. So bring up something from 9 years ago, even if still relevant because the RCC was changed to an OCC (see the Psi-Hound race listings.), seams a bit bringing up the past.

Huh, I hadn't noticed the necro-ing.