Forums of the Megaverse®

So, has anyone tried to use some homebrewed dimensions, made with or without help of the Megaverse Builder, as basis setting for their games, or at least a story arc or two? How much time have you dedicated to worlds or dimensional realms of your own and what kind of influence had your players in expanding or changing them?

Thought of making this when i saw we have one about making up star-empires, with lots of Phaseworld, Worwood & the Minion War, but little no love for the Megaverse Builder or using made-up stuff in dimension-hopping.

I remember someone was looking at The Elemental Plains and Quasi-Elemental Plains, I think it was Carl Gleba as far as I can remember, I'd really to see those in print. I also remember under the sphynx npc in Book 6 Siege in Tolkeen Final Siege, there are some interesting sounding places in other dimensions under his description. They would be a good starter for ten.

Fyrpower wrote:I remember someone was looking at The Elemental Plains and Quasi-Elemental Plains, I think it was Carl Gleba as far as I can remember, I'd really to see those in print. I also remember under the sphynx npc in Book 6 Siege in Tolkeen Final Siege, there are some interesting sounding places in other dimensions under his description. They would be a good starter for ten.

Good points - me, i remember mention of something called the Eco War involving elementals & warlocks from several worlds and realms against force of invaders attempting to take over the "Central Plane in the Elemental Planes" or something like that in Megaverse Builder. If this relates somehow to the Minion War or is a whole different and new cosmic conflict, it's up for grabs i guess.

From Siege in Tolkeen i remember how a shifter among the Council, Selkind the Metal Mage, was connected not to an individual Supernatural Intelligence but the Drolian Council, the collective ruling body of some extradimensional techno-wizard civilization. That's one group that could potentially do nasty, nasty things indeed if the Daemonix fell in their hands after the Tolkeen War.

Yes I have a rifts PC from an..Alternate Dimension?? He's a 7'10 two tone blue anthropomorphic unicorn zapper. He comes from a realm within the Astral Plane filled with other colorful anthropomorphic fantasy horse beings (unicorns, pegasi, alicorns). Upon reaching maturity all members of the race recieve a unique tattoo on their flank depicting the major talent/talents of the individual.

It was definitely not inspired by a popular cartoon about brightly colored ponies.

The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:Yes I have a rifts PC from an..Alternate Dimension?? He's a 7'10 two tone blue anthropomorphic unicorn zapper. He comes from a realm within the Astral Plane filled with other colorful anthropomorphic fantasy horse beings (unicorns, pegasi, alicorns). Upon reaching maturity all members of the race recieve a unique tattoo on their flank depicting the major talent/talents of the individual.

It was definitely not inspired by a popular cartoon about brightly colored ponies.

Well, perfectly valid choice all things considered. Kind of like this?

Out of curiosity, how did you model its race/stats?

the GM had this whole formula where all the races ran a 3d6 base with bonuses if applicable. we used the creature of magic information for the unicorn from the monsters and animals book. He calculated the highest possible attribute role given the rules as written in the creature write up. If the result was higher than 18 your role was 3d6+? as far as the natural abilities for the unicorn race we used what was listed in the monsters in animals book under the unicorn and then we added in psionic powers as evidenced by unicorn characters on the show. Mainly teleporting and telekinesis.

The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:the GM had this whole formula where all the races ran a 3d6 base with bonuses if applicable. we used the creature of magic information for the unicorn from the monsters and animals book. He calculated the highest possible attribute role given the rules as written in the creature write up. If the result was higher than 18 your role was 3d6+? as far as the natural abilities for the unicorn race we used what was listed in the monsters in animals book under the unicorn and then we added in psionic powers as evidenced by unicorn characters on the show. Mainly teleporting and telekinesis.

Simple and nice overall.

Here is the image on my char sheet. http://www.deviantart.com/art/The-Evil-Unicorn-336756407 I have a separate second image showing the color scheme.

The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:Here is the image on my char sheet. http://www.deviantart.com/art/The-Evil-Unicorn-336756407 I have a separate second image showing the color scheme.

I can only imagine how flabbergasted were the Deadboys upon seeing it.

On other stuff, took a look at Rifts: England and the chapter about Bres and the Fomorians made me think of how they could become a pretty big threat with some expansion and updating - vassals, slave races, maybe a priesthood or witch covens/cults for their leaders, along with some description of their own dimension (that might or not be a heroic realm as described in Dragons & Gods). But as described 1-2 hundred thousand demonic giants with two evil gods in the lead are already a huge threat to anything outside of the Minion War.

SolCannibal wrote:I can only image how flabbergasted were the Deadboys upon seeing it.

Lol, they never saw him coming. He can teleport remember! Plus if you get him in range of a TK forcefield he can trap them individually or in a group. just port in a few grenades or fusion blocks...and Kabam! The compression of the explosion inside the force bubbles liquified everyone except the..he was some sort of juicer.

SolCannibal wrote:So, has anyone tried to use some homebrewed dimensions, made with or without help of the Megaverse Builder, as basis setting for their games, or at least a story arc or two? How much time have you dedicated to worlds or dimensional realms of your own and what kind of influence had your players in expanding or changing them?

Thought of making this when i saw we have one about making up star-empires, with lots of Phaseworld, Worwood & the Minion War, but little no love for the Megaverse Builder or using made-up stuff in dimension-hopping.

I've made a few dimensions. I do use the Megaverse Builder as a guide too. I fleshed out Aren-Sigli (A dimension only mentioned in Dragons and Gawds). I drew out all the continents on the planet, and where what cities and cultures/races were.

I also built a pocket dimension for a rune bottle called, 'Shipwreck.' A wrecked wooded Frigate on the beach of a 2 mile by 5 mile tropical island with a little jungle and a old tower (Being one of Spacia's bottles, Rifter 57). The sea only goes out in a 10 miles radius from the center, if you go out far in a straight line you end up on the opposite side of the dimension heading towards the center.

I've made lot's of planets, only really started making different dimensions, besides Aren-Sigli recently. One of the Characters in my current 3G campaign is a shifter, so it's a fairly planet and dimension hopping intensive campaign. I've not ever seen a campaign like it with my group before, Rifts really is fantastic for this type of setting.

Yes but I can not think of any that really stand out as note worthy. Usally they where either something random or based on an alternate time line theme.

Now villains I have made a few that where really interesting. (The most significant being Crazy Hetz)

I have made several dimensions over the years for various games. The level of detail and thought I put into them depends on how much use it will be put. Ranging from the bare bones treatment for something that is just going to be a background detail for some NPC such as my realm of Argul which was the home of a moderately important NPC in my CSPsi game, to the detailed expansive worldbook level treatment I provided for Tellas in my last campaign. The difference was that no one was likely to ever go to Argul, where as Tellas was the setting for the entire campaign.
Thus in the first case I just needed to know enough to know the motivations and quirks of the character, in the second I needed to be able to bring the world alive for a group to explore. I still don't know the governmental structure of Argul where as I can not only tell you that for tellas, I can provide a history of each, the legal theory that undermines it, and the names of the major people (and scores of minor people and functionaries) in every nations government.

I've made up two planes of existence....
The 1st was Dwelmland, a mist shrouded land where the beings there adhere to some sort of archetype as their personality. A fairy Tale sort of place where time can be mutable and the sheep can sometimes turn into maidens. It was inspired by the one and only Diceless game I started.

The 2nd is a land of fairies, laying beside the real (HU) world that is bound to the real would via bridges. The fairy world was a mirror image to the real world till humans started changing it. present day timey whimy speaking there are few bridges between the two realms have grow weak and as they close threaten to break off entirely .

Not a new D but projecting an old (PF) one.... the lands beyond the black wall (known as the wall of purity from the other side) are mostly archipelagos and are free from the influence of the old ones. The magic waste from the time of the old ones having been swept up by the wall of purity.
With the aspect that one wizard seeing that most of his realm was really water changed the people of his realm into mere-elves, -humans, etc..(not the CoM Mere-people...just mundanes that could be ether land walks or sea swimmers.)
Where some royalty have it in their blood (genes) that they become marked from birth as heirs of the royal house. Displaying unique tattoos of their bloodline.

eliakon wrote:I have made several dimensions over the years for various games. The level of detail and thought I put into them depends on how much use it will be put. Ranging from the bare bones treatment for something that is just going to be a background detail for some NPC such as my realm of Argul which was the home of a moderately important NPC in my CSPsi game, to the detailed expansive worldbook level treatment I provided for Tellas in my last campaign. The difference was that no one was likely to ever go to Argul, where as Tellas was the setting for the entire campaign.
Thus in the first case I just needed to know enough to know the motivations and quirks of the character, in the second I needed to be able to bring the world alive for a group to explore. I still don't know the governmental structure of Argul where as I can not only tell you that for tellas, I can provide a history of each, the legal theory that undermines it, and the names of the major people (and scores of minor people and functionaries) in every nations government.

Yes, yes, i can see your point on the matter of degree of detail, i do that most of time too - care to give some bare bones info on Argul & Tellas and how they served your campaigns?

Drewkitty, in what game did you use Dwelmland? As an aside, i'm a bit curious about the kind of shenanigans those faerie connected to a HU earth might have been up to. Also, nice riff on the black wall these "seas of the Wall of Purity".

Arensigli? What kind of additions did you do to it Jerell? And now that you talked about it i'm also curious about what else might Spacia have on her sleeve (or bottles at least), got to check out that Rifter.

Thanks for the comments and sorry for the silence people - your bout of activity went on in a week i had a problem with my leg and i missed the messages back them (and gmail swamping them with loads of others apparently). Only saw them by chance right now.

Yes.
Three I frequently use.
1) a "normal" earth loaded with heroes unlimited. Makes maps and storylines easier.
2) Rifts earth with Greenebrook. Since the west coast city isn't canon its technically an alternate dimension.
3) a medieval rifts earth where adventures take place on the continent of Atlantis.

say652 wrote:Yes.
Three I frequently use.
1) a "normal" earth loaded with heroes unlimited. Makes maps and storylines easier.

So basically most supers that drop in Rifts Eath in your games from there? True, it can be convenient to have a "main one" for that if one wants to make use of supers in some coherent fashion, like a bunch of stories and visitors coming from the 3 Galaxies are different from half a dozen visitors and events from random different sci-fi settings.

say652 wrote:2) Rifts earth with Greenebrook. Since the west coast city isn't canon its technically an alternate dimension.

I would count that more like homebrew than alternate - not like there's lots of room for new powers to suddenly crop up, as Merctown and the GAW cities show pretty well, but i can understand not everybody would agree.

say652 wrote:3) a medieval rifts earth where adventures take place on the continent of Atlantis.

A medieval earth with Atlantis and some magic added in or a Rifts Earth "transdimensional invaders from every side" in a more primitive world?

1) yes. The whole I'm from CT and have mutant powers thing. Or I'm from canada have claws a healing factor and....well you get the idea.
2) west coast is pretty barren and no real info on it is canon. I think The vampire kibgdoms are the closest power and the new navy has a few subs on the west coast.
3) yes a medievel Phisical training kingdom led by a Cosmoknight, Techno Wizard Orcs and Recently added a dimension stranded Trio of Fully loaded DeathsHead Transports.
And thats just Atlantis cant wait until actual planetery exploration is attempted. Lol

say652 wrote:1) yes. The whole I'm from CT and have mutant powers thing. Or I'm from canada have claws a healing factor and....well you get the idea.

As one with a HU Earth orbited by a derelict alien TW spaceship turned watchpost, tech exploration center and prison, Earth is a unheard of bit of nowhere but the works of Myamoto Musashi are the current rage among intellectuals, warrior-philosophers, mystics and revolutionaries across several star systems due to video-pamphlets, audiobooks & publishings of the anti-establishment ronin movement in the Atorian Empire (the main evil empire of galactic community) and a dimension-hopping rogue son of Alistair Dunscon is that earth's Doc Doom expy among other stuff, i understand all too well, i guess.

Oh yeah, the spaceship is SDF-1 kind of big if not much larger and has manifested ley lines, nexuses and even rifts in some key locations of its weird arcane architecture on occasion - in fact one of my PCs history starts with him among a very unlucky band of gargoyle (yes, gargoyles, their contractor was a weird mystic type lady) mercenaries at the Atorians' service that end up going across the wrong portal and shangaied straight into the Minion War.

say652 wrote:2) west coast is pretty barren and no real info on it is canon. I think The vampire kingdoms are the closest power and the new navy has a few subs on the west coast.

Well, i think Denmark is a wasteland and a NGR weapons training ground in canon, what hasn't stopped me of making it an actual nation and smuggling & piracy with a norse republic at the north, not to mention lots of "free cities" and pirate havens in several spots of europe and north africa's atlantic seashore and an almost successful war against the gargoyles lead by the aforementioned rogue son of Dunscon in the 90s PA. I just don't treat it as alternate because i have no wish for two Rifts Earths in my games anytime soon.

say652 wrote:3) yes a medievel Phisical training kingdom led by a Cosmoknight, Techno Wizard Orcs and Recently added a dimension stranded Trio of Fully loaded DeathsHead Transports. And thats just Atlantis cant wait until actual planetery exploration is attempted. Lol

Yes, most definitely alternate and as much of a witch's brew as canon Rifts Earth indeed.

Yup, I've built several, and (so far) none are built using the Megaversal Builder.

One is a pocket dimension occupied by a Scrupulous Sploog, and a large number of his minions.

made a dimension where no one decided anything for themselves and all actions and decisions had to be determined by dice.

I basically ignore the megaversal builders attempt to make things pointlessly complicated with different energy matrixes and other crap.

An alternate history version of rifts earth which began with a "what if..." the CS not only didn't get rid of the Vanguard they all, but embraced them and the exploitable nature of palladium Techno-Wizardry... course the Federation of Magic became a crazy powerhouse of godlike magical rituals and armies of inhuman monsters and mortal slaves. I ran a campaign in this setting that saw my players having a blast and basically conquering the world and starting into the stars.

I've also been fleshing out a dimension for House Hel'Brek, formerly of the Splicers homeworld/dimension, this dimension has its own breed of vampires as well as magic and psionics... The kicker is the vampires might not be the 'bad' guys... or at least the baddest of the 'bad' guys.

Slight001 wrote:I basically ignore the megaversal builders attempt to make things pointlessly complicated with different energy matrixes and other crap.

I can see your point there - some of the stuff presented there, even when deliberately picked as concepts that a GM will flesh out for a specific story and not by chance, can feel like some arbitrary hurdle imposed upon the players, aka "guess what people, random dimension change - now all of your TW stuff is useless, or your guns squirt water, because dimensional physics shenanigans!" instead of different stuff to interact with.

Hmmm, retooling things to try to make that kind of crap "more interactive"... don't know how i would do it, but might be worth a try tinkering. Now that's an idea, thanks a bunch.

Slight001 wrote:An alternate history version of rifts earth which began with a "what if..." the CS not only didn't get rid of the Vanguard they all, but embraced them and the exploitable nature of palladium Techno-Wizardry... course the Federation of Magic became a crazy powerhouse of godlike magical rituals and armies of inhuman monsters and mortal slaves. I ran a campaign in this setting that saw my players having a blast and basically conquering the world and starting into the stars.

So their FoM apparently got luckier than the canon one, at least for a time.

Slight001 wrote:I've also been fleshing out a dimension for House Hel'Brek, formerly of the Splicers homeworld/dimension, this dimension has its own breed of vampires as well as magic and psionics... The kicker is the vampires might not be the 'bad' guys... or at least the baddest of the 'bad' guys.

What would the other bad guys be then? I'm curious.

SolCannibal wrote:

Slight001 wrote:I've also been fleshing out a dimension for House Hel'Brek, formerly of the Splicers homeworld/dimension, this dimension has its own breed of vampires as well as magic and psionics... The kicker is the vampires might not be the 'bad' guys... or at least the baddest of the 'bad' guys.

What would the other bad guys be then? I'm curious.

Honestly not sure yet. They (other bad guys) are known(assumed) to be supernatural monsters that attack mostly at night when their strength is at its greatest and the vampires are the only ones able to effectively fight back. The people have turned to the vampires as protectors and basically worship them.

The megahero option in hu2 has an undead immortal special power.
Sooo genetically modified "Super" Vampires vs "normal" Vampires??

Slight001 wrote:

SolCannibal wrote:

Slight001 wrote:I've also been fleshing out a dimension for House Hel'Brek, formerly of the Splicers homeworld/dimension, this dimension has its own breed of vampires as well as magic and psionics... The kicker is the vampires might not be the 'bad' guys... or at least the baddest of the 'bad' guys.

What would the other bad guys be then? I'm curious.

Honestly not sure yet. They (other bad guys) are known(assumed) to be supernatural monsters that attack mostly at night when their strength is at its greatest and the vampires are the only ones able to effectively fight back. The people have turned to the vampires as protectors and basically worship them.

Hmmm, one idea that comes to mind is vampires filling a psi-stalker like role in this world. They are savage, crazed and predatory but once were human and are even more into attacking the supernatural creepers (whom they can hit even mano-a-mano or at least claw-to-fang if need be, instead of depending on limited or at least expensive weaponry) with their magically-richer ichors.

The Night Demons from Creatures of Chaos (a Chaos Earth book) might be worth checking out, as i think they would fit the whole bill for the "badder guys" quite nicely.

Borast wrote:Yup, I've built several, and (so far) none are built using the Megaversal Builder.

One is a pocket dimension occupied by a Scrupulous Sploog, and a large number of his minions.

Now that brings the question - what kind of minions henchmen would it work with, if it's a bit too nice for the Sploog's standard "let's enslave people to worship us and sell the rest who won't by planetload!" kind of lifestyle...

SolCannibal wrote:

Borast wrote:Yup, I've built several, and (so far) none are built using the Megaversal Builder.

One is a pocket dimension occupied by a Scrupulous Sploog, and a large number of his minions.

Now that brings the question - what kind of minions henchmen would it work with, if it's a bit too nice for the Sploog's standard "let's enslave people to worship us and sell the rest who won't by planetload!" kind of lifestyle...

Well paid and perked Employees.
The Usual minions still work for it, since they still view it as a "god" of sorts...after all, he *did* rescue many from dying worlds, just like the rest of the Sploogs...he just was nicer about it!

Borast wrote:

SolCannibal wrote:

Borast wrote:Yup, I've built several, and (so far) none are built using the Megaversal Builder.

One is a pocket dimension occupied by a Scrupulous Sploog, and a large number of his minions.

Now that brings the question - what kind of minions henchmen would it work with, if it's a bit too nice for the Sploog's standard "let's enslave people to worship us and sell the rest who won't by planetload!" kind of lifestyle...

Well paid and perked Employees.
The Usual minions still work for it, since they still view it as a "god" of sorts...after all, he *did* rescue many from dying worlds, just like the rest of the Sploogs...he just was nicer about it!

It certainly works for the High Lords (and variants), Kydians and Kitanni (though those were implied to be a bunch of utter bastards even before that), with the Slavers, Blind Warrior Women and other minions/allies, now that's a question. Not to mention that depending on its action that particular sploog might have a bad fame with the others and the servitor races - but considering how long-lived sploogs can be, he could have a considerable population of worshippers descended of a (relatively) few handpicked loyalists....

There's also the matter that he would need some followers not of typical "sploog minion" stock, just to avoid a bunch of unfortunate reactions in first contacts with people already familiar with the splugorth fame...

Powersurge was fighting for one Krisscrythh in Atlantis. Got payed in gold coins. Fought an Ancient Beast Dragon Some bugmen and other mortal weaklings.
Once he learned what a Splugorth actually is, he quit fighting.
Then the party kicked him out.

just brief hops into a dimension to see if my players would take advantage of having a lay line rifter in the party to check the place out they didnt

Idea.
A dimension where everybody regardless of race looks human. Racial abilities still apply?!?
Just everyone looks human. Giant size to pixie size.

SolCannibal wrote:Arensigli? What kind of additions did you do to it Jerell? And now that you talked about it i'm also curious about what else might Spacia have on her sleeve (or bottles at least), got to check out that Rifter.

I can shoot you the details I have, PM me if you like, I can probably scan in my map some day...

I had a Temporal Wizard who was able to make Dimensional Envelopes that were larger than usual and were "untethered" to a physical plane... just pocket dimensions only accessible by Dimensional Portal or an older version of the Mystic Portal spell. They typically had the characteristics of the dimension from whence they were created.

SolCannibal wrote:

eliakon wrote:I have made several dimensions over the years for various games. The level of detail and thought I put into them depends on how much use it will be put. Ranging from the bare bones treatment for something that is just going to be a background detail for some NPC such as my realm of Argul which was the home of a moderately important NPC in my CSPsi game, to the detailed expansive worldbook level treatment I provided for Tellas in my last campaign. The difference was that no one was likely to ever go to Argul, where as Tellas was the setting for the entire campaign.
Thus in the first case I just needed to know enough to know the motivations and quirks of the character, in the second I needed to be able to bring the world alive for a group to explore. I still don't know the governmental structure of Argul where as I can not only tell you that for tellas, I can provide a history of each, the legal theory that undermines it, and the names of the major people (and scores of minor people and functionaries) in every nations government.

Yes, yes, i can see your point on the matter of degree of detail, i do that most of time too - care to give some bare bones info on Argul & Tellas and how they served your campaigns?

Really late reply is really late.....

Argul was a 'higher dimensional plane' sort of realm
I had a couple of NPCs who hailed from it who, due to their abilities (several time/space powers) were concerned about the potential for another main NPC (the walking plot device in the CS Psi game) to cause a temporal disruption. If she damaged causualty to much then she would create a paradox and allow 'The Things Of Never' to enter our reality and undo all of creation. This was considered a rather undesirable state of affairs. However they were not loathe to directly intervene due to the fact that any meddling by them could also weaken the fabric of reality. Basically they were there to give hints to people pushing them to making decision on their own that would either lead to, or away from this.
I can't say too much about Tellas since I have players that are going back there But short thumbnail version....
It was a "1930s just post WW I" sort of feel world (jazz, airships) with some custom races and magic. The players were summoned to deal with a uhhhh 'Demon Problem'. Since they were going to be working in the political and military structures I needed to have these all fleshed out. And that meant I needed to be able to have the names and motivations of a constellation of petty (and not so petty)nobles, bureaucrats, military functionaries, officers and business people. I needed to know guild laws, and the code dulleo and what the social customs of the different nations were. I had to be able to let the players get involved with the plotting for position....and to do that I needed to know who was scheming to do what to whom and why.....

I'd like to see some of the more positive worlds. Like, we know Dyval and Hades and such, but there's not so much on the counterbalances. Spirits of lights, worlds of heroes.

Heck, some of those alien intelligences are, rarely, good.

Hm... if I made a dimension, it'd be called 'Refuge.' It's inhabitants would include a rare good (but kinda nutty) Splugorth who had the organizational skills to put things together, a pair of good (+1 anarchist but prefers to hang with good) Soul Worms, plus two other good alien intelligences, of more unique varieties, and welcoming refugee-minions from other alien intelligences. It'll be under siege from multiple evil forces, and be quite hard to pierce- indeed, in the past, they had two other intelligences that fell. Officially, it's widely believed they stayed hidden there for millennia, until discovered at which point old enemies, rivals, and just the species they were from decided to take them out on general principle, trapping those involved, but they actually have a way out and were the ones who leaked their existence, stay holed up because they know as long as the forces that hate them try and batter through their rather-impressive defenses, and meanwhile they try and capture slave-soldiers and free willed minions sent against them to give them a chance to be free and either join their defenses to fight against evil, or go out to the multiverse, and similarly occasionally send out a secret caste of agents to help others elsewhere in the multiverse.


They plan on all dying eventually, but not before taking out as many hostile-to-life alien intelligences as they can, holding the gaze of multiple evil planes as long as they can, and getting out as many once-evil minions and slaves through the back door before they go down. The whole world would be built to this end, as it's shaped by it's lords to be their last stand. In the meantime, the occasional hero visits, and can play their part in either buying time or helping former minions find a new home, a valuable task that they, in their refuge/trap, have great trouble doing on their own.

Greetings!

A Shared Earth: Imagine an Earth that spawned TWO sentient races; Humans and the Grahl! The Grahl are a humaniod Hyena from the African Plains! They share a history with Humans that is hostile and friendly by turns through the ages.
This would really change history as we know it; The Grahl's existance would complicate Religion. Judean-Christian belief in being "Created in the Image of God" may have real issues here, as the Grahl are here, and have always been here, so the idea MAY have not occured or be Inclusive regarding Faithful Grahl.

The Fall of Rome may have been hastened by vengeful Grahl enraged by generations of slavery.
Gengis Khan's Horde bolstered by Grahl "Wilders" who act like Norse Berserkers by giving in to their most primal urges in a raid!
Columbus may have had several Grahl crewmen who's cousins are living with the Native American Humans!
The American Revolution sees Grahl troops on both sides of the conflict and leads to Heroes like Gravak Rathbone, who gave his life to hold off several Redcoats long enough for Ben Frankin to get away from the squad sent to arrest him for treason!
Villains like Captain Rakor Grix who mercilessly slaughtered the entire male civilian populous of Salem Massachusetts as a warning to the Colonists not to defy the Crown!

In personal matters, Grahl and Humans may mate, but few offspring occur-the few that are born are usually sterile.

What do you think?

Good Gaming, GaredBattlespike

I posted this in a different thread.

What do I think?
Loose the offspring possibility entirely. Canid and Hominid DNA wouldn't mix.

Other than that...sounds great.

Borast wrote:What do I think?
Loose the offspring possibility entirely. Canid and Hominid DNA wouldn't mix.

Other than that...sounds great.

Well, hyena are not even real canids but closer to felines genetically. The behavioural and morphologic similarities to canids are the result of convergent evolution.

Theoretically speaking the Grahl could be descended of some sort of primate that conserved/developed a hyena-like snout and fangs, maybe
evolving from something akin to baboons or mandrils. Just a little bit of pseudo-scientific brainfarting.

But speaking of hyenamen & such.

Sol, still...we cannot breed with chimps, which share 98% of our DNA. So even if the Grahl were descended from any other primates, there would still be no offspring.

Besides, with the exception of the Ogre in PF, nothing can breed with "us" in the game except "us". Add it, that KS has had an existing rule since day one...no crossbreeds.
That being said, as per KS himself in EVERY book issued...The Rules are not set in stone. They are guidelines to be used or ignored at the GM's desire. So, if Gared wants a crossbreed, he gets one.

Borast wrote:Sol, still...we cannot breed with chimps, which share 98% of our DNA. So even if the Grahl were descended from any other primates, there would still be no offspring.

And yet horses and donkeys, that share an even smaller percentage, generate mules, so we don't know as much about the subject as we think we know.

Borast wrote:Besides, with the exception of the Ogre in PF, nothing can breed with "us" in the game except "us". Add it, that KS has had an existing rule since day one...no crossbreeds.
That being said, as per KS himself in EVERY book issued...The Rules are not set in stone. They are guidelines to be used or ignored at the GM's desire. So, if Gared wants a crossbreed, he gets one.

Anyway, i was just toying with making half-baked excuses for exactly that.

there is a chromosome count issue.. horses and donkey's share nearly the same number, which is why they can produce offspring (specifically, horses have one extra pair compared to a donkey, so the resulting hybrid ends up with a non-paired chromosome, which is why mules are infertile.)

humans and apes have a simialr issue (humans have one fewer pair than most great apes) but that just makes the genetics issue trickier.. horses and donkey's, while having different genes for various things, are close enough genetically and have the genetics parts line up right, that the resulting mix functions.

humans and apes.. well we don't know but it seems unlikely. physically humans and apes have some huge differences, so it is liekly that many bits of our genes code for stuff that's too different. (remember.. the % difference is an amalgamated value.. it's actually spread out in a nucleotide here, another there, etc.)

Going by the wiki, humans have 23 pairs and chimps & gorillas have 24, meanwhile donkeys have 31 pairs and horses 32.

So, as i said before, there's a lot we don't know. And probably won't because truth be told it takes some pretty peculiar circunstances for hybridization to even happen, being no wonder the phenomena is known mostly from human experimentation/selective breeding.

Sol, we know more than you think... Several scientists (using the term very loosely) have attempted to breed a cross between human and great ape/chimp (cheap labour). Every single "successful" foetus spontaneously aborted in the first trimester. The rest of the attempts failed outright. (The "successful" ones involved micro-surgery on the ovum.)

Last one I heard of was in the 30's.

Borast wrote:Sol, we know more than you think... Several scientists (using the term very loosely) have attempted to breed a cross between human and great ape/chimp (cheap labour). Every single "successful" foetus spontaneously aborted in the first trimester. The rest of the attempts failed outright. (The "successful" ones involved micro-surgery on the ovum.)

Last one I heard of was in the 30's.

My point wasn't "there's much we don't know, it may happen" so much as "there's much we don't know to say what the criteria for not happening are", but they are certainly more complex than what has been said so far.
Also, the last experiment you heard about was 8 decades ago, 4 decades before the first successful human in vitro fertilization, do you know? Just sayin'.

Sol - some of the experiments I was referring to were mixing gametes in a lab and inserting the resulting blastocysts.

The women were willing, but lied to. They thought the treatments would make better humans, and yes, it was the 30's or so (or was it the 50's...some of the details are hazy, but I wasn't paying all that much attention to the TV at the time, something was happening on SWtOR at the time).