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Im sure its asked a million times before, but in the vanilla rules non enviormental still protects the whole body right? Like Juicer Assaisin armor looks like its just a vest and kneepads and such but it still has no AR and you cannot do a called shot to get past it right?

The rules about MDC armor says that all MD attacks hit the armor first.

This comes up in many discussions about AR.

Thats how I thought it worked, oh well.

heromedel wrote:Im sure its asked a million times before, but in the vanilla rules non enviormental still protects the whole body right? Like Juicer Assaisin armor looks like its just a vest and kneepads and such but it still has no AR and you cannot do a called shot to get past it right?

The rules say that all attacks hit the armor first. HOWEVER the called shot rules ALSO mention that they can be used to bypass armor.
So.....
Most 'normal' attacks will hit the armor first (yes this isn't logical, Rule of Cool is in effect), BUT a called shot can be used to hit something that ISNT covered.
.
.
.
Does that help?

heromedel wrote:Im sure its asked a million times before, but in the vanilla rules non enviormental still protects the whole body right? Like Juicer Assaisin armor looks like its just a vest and kneepads and such but it still has no AR and you cannot do a called shot to get past it right?

The cloth parts of that armor are Mega-Damage as well.

But say you have a guy in a suit of armor that doesn't have a helmet...
Any normal shot is going to hit him in the Main Body, so he's protected.
But a Called Shot to the head can bypass the armor, damaging him directly. With MD weapons against SDC foes, this is typically lethal.

generally unless is lists an AR (like cyberarmor does), it's assumed the armor will take all the attacks.

Is there anything that states the cloth part of the armor is MD

heromedel wrote:Is there anything that states the cloth part of the armor is MD

Just the stats that list the MDC for the arms and legs.

heromedel wrote:Im sure its asked a million times before, but in the vanilla rules non enviormental still protects the whole body right? Like Juicer Assaisin armor looks like its just a vest and kneepads and such but it still has no AR and you cannot do a called shot to get past it right?

this is one of the big "huh???" that comes up periodically.
and is in some ways a major flaw in the system as written for armor.

with that said I don't know of a good way to really fix the issue I have been casually thinking about it since the last 2-3 times this basic question or variations of it came up.

and one of the "better" house rules I thought of is to assign all armor what I am going to call "dual AR ratings" and I will admit it doesn't really resolve the fundamental issue.

under my dual AR idea, every set of armor has an absorption AR basically how tough it is to damage the armor itself, and a "coverage AR" representing how easy/hard it is to bypass the armor.

now MDC armor is typically going to have a very high absorption AR as it is essentially invulnerable to SDC damage for simplicity purposes and MDC weapons automatically defeat all absorption AR checks under standard rules.

The "Coverage AR" for Environmental armor is going to typically be very high ~18+ under most cases indicating it is essentially impossible to find openings in the armor because its environmental and sealed. On the other hand non environmental armor often has obvious "weak points" that you can see in the art.

but as a whole I don't have a "good fix"

note under the optional rules it suggests that you can rule that MDC body armor does not completely stop all damage pass through, and apply some SDC damage to the wearer based on the mdc taken, say your Char is hit by a 10 mdc blast on his 60 mdc armor, you might have ~10 sdc damage be applied to the wearer representing the fact that while the armor stopped the majority of the damage, it still hurts to get hit, and at least the wearer wasn't immediately crippled or killed the armor isn't perfect.

heromedel wrote:Im sure its asked a million times before, but in the vanilla rules non enviormental still protects the whole body right? Like Juicer Assaisin armor looks like its just a vest and kneepads and such but it still has no AR and you cannot do a called shot to get past it right?

Strikes generally hit the main body unless a called shot is made. At least that is how I see it going down by the rules, so non-eba doesn't have to protect the whole body, but to hit those non protected parts requires a called shot.

glitterboy2098 wrote:generally unless is lists an AR (like cyberarmor does), it's assumed the armor will take all the attacks.

Pretty much this. Unless specified in the description MDC armor is assumed to not have an AR value and any damage is done to the armor regardless of appearance.

We are led to believe that juicer-plate provides better coverage than cyber-armor, always seemed the same to me.

The full-suit NGR clothing (pricey!) also seemed better-covering.

Millenium Leaf armor gets a free pass because magic.

eliakon wrote:

heromedel wrote:Im sure its asked a million times before, but in the vanilla rules non enviormental still protects the whole body right? Like Juicer Assaisin armor looks like its just a vest and kneepads and such but it still has no AR and you cannot do a called shot to get past it right?

The rules say that all attacks hit the armor first. HOWEVER the called shot rules ALSO mention that they can be used to bypass armor.
So.....
Most 'normal' attacks will hit the armor first (yes this isn't logical, Rule of Cool is in effect), BUT a called shot can be used to hit something that ISNT covered.
.
.
.
Does that help?

rule of cool and rule of female in string bikini platemail being better than full platemail.

Bah, so many are worried that an AR will instagib characters. Solution give MD AR and treat it like natural AR. Over AR does damage to the suit under does no damage. Unless of course one wants the instagib possibility.
But with an AR then instead of AP rounds doing extra critical damage it could just half the AR.

What I ended up going with was a comprimise between impossible to get pass and allowing called shots. Here it how it works:

A natural 20 from an MD weapon against MD armor (non eviormental) is a gaurenteed hit but opens up the chance for a free called shot to see if it hit a vulernable place in the armor or bypassed it.

A second roll is made and the opponent may try to dodge or parry. A successful hit means damage to guy under the armor a dodge means double damage still on the armor and a parry means double damage to the piece of armor or to the MD object used to parry.

What this accomplishes is when a player says "can I called shot his neck and not hit his armor" I can say sure just roll a natural 20 to beat its impossible AR and then roll a second time to see if your Aim was great or perfect. While simultaneous allowing a way to escape the called shot and making crits still awesome.

If your further worried about dealing with a player walking up and pointing a pistol right at a guys neck or say a small MD creature flying right up you can treat that like a melee attack to get the weapon in and close enough to bypass the armor. Then the shot would be point blank and hit the guy. Unless you fumble and something **** happens when you pull the trigger.

This could be handled with one or two rolls.