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I was poking around at places I remember enhanced the range of ancient weapons as Dance of Blessing Weapons (Rifts Africa 88-9) does for arrows/sticks and paid some attention to the armor/shields aspect which I think I'd overlooked previously, probably because it didn't exactly help the MDC gear I probably assumed in the past everyone would have.

Then I remembered the poor Warmonger Combat Suit in Mercenaries 145 due to recent discussions wrought with Chipwell-bashing.

This begs the question... what is an "ordinary suit of armor" exactly? Would it cover SDC exoskeletons, combat suits or power-armor? SDC enviro-armor? Stuff like Class-4 armor from HU? Or would it only cover the traditional types found in PF?

Also wondering how people work the 'turns into MDC' aspect. Does that mean it is impervious to SDC attacks whilst battling against MDC creatures/robots? Like for example: would you be immune to the Jager's head-guns? Or do you just work it more like a vampire where they take normal damage from SDC attacks but MD attacks are converted to SDC (divided by 100, whatever you call it)? Otherwise defining when one is engaged could be hard.

What would be good examples of SDC armor in Rifts that would benefit from a spell like this? I know high-SDC suits in other settings like PF/HU just don't recall them popping up in Rifts as much, not sure where to get them outside of interdimensional imports.

There is SDC armor for borgs in HU, could that be enchanted? It seems pretty non-complex compared to stuff like power-armor or exo-skeletons or even environmental BA, it's basically just bolted on.

Tor wrote:I was poking around at places I remember enhanced the range of ancient weapons as Dance of Blessing Weapons (Rifts Africa 88-9) does for arrows/sticks and paid some attention to the armor/shields aspect which I think I'd overlooked previously, probably because it didn't exactly help the MDC gear I probably assumed in the past everyone would have.

Then I remembered the poor Warmonger Combat Suit in Mercenaries 145 due to recent discussions wrought with Chipwell-bashing.

This begs the question... what is an "ordinary suit of armor" exactly? Would it cover SDC exoskeletons, combat suits or power-armor? SDC enviro-armor? Stuff like Class-4 armor from HU? Or would it only cover the traditional types found in PF?

Also wondering how people work the 'turns into MDC' aspect. Does that mean it is impervious to SDC attacks whilst battling against MDC creatures/robots? Like for example: would you be immune to the Jager's head-guns? Or do you just work it more like a vampire where they take normal damage from SDC attacks but MD attacks are converted to SDC (divided by 100, whatever you call it)? Otherwise defining when one is engaged could be hard.

What would be good examples of SDC armor in Rifts that would benefit from a spell like this? I know high-SDC suits in other settings like PF/HU just don't recall them popping up in Rifts as much, not sure where to get them outside of interdimensional imports.

There is SDC armor for borgs in HU, could that be enchanted? It seems pretty non-complex compared to stuff like power-armor or exo-skeletons or even environmental BA, it's basically just bolted on.

I think the only reasonable reading of "Ordinary" is "Armor without any features other than armor protection". Which would exclude enviromental armor or any armor with electronics build in. but it would not, strictly, only apply to ancient armor--it would also apply to "modern" armor as in our current time, such as bullet proof vests, riot armor and "hard" armor, which can have upwards of 250-280 SDC to convert to MDC. and yes, no reason borg armor could not be, so long as it's armor you attach and not part of the main body itself.

Warmonger barely has any environmental protection though, wondering if you wrecked it further, ripped out its sensor systems and stuff, if it might work then

Tor wrote:Warmonger barely has any environmental protection though, wondering if you wrecked it further, ripped out its sensor systems and stuff, if it might work then

I don't think any suit of powered armor will ever qualify as 'ordinary armor'

Tor wrote:Warmonger barely has any environmental protection though, wondering if you wrecked it further, ripped out its sensor systems and stuff, if it might work then

Not really, it's crappy powered armor, but it's still power armor. you would have to rip out ALL the hydralics, so it's basically unable to move, the power system, ALL the built in weaponry, the HUD, the combat computer, targeting system, RADAR, LIDAR, Radio set, radiation sheilding...basically by the time your done you just have a half ton lump of steel and aluminum that you couldn't move in

Could always cast a weight-reducing spell once the dance-enchantment was done...

Although to enchant the armor I think you need to dance around while wearing it... so you'd need to enchant it first... but then ti wouldn't be normal, catch 22 I guess.

One possible way might be to temporarily empower the human wearer with superhuman strength so they could dance while wearing it?

I don't think your going to get a 4000 MDC suit of magic armor out of this spell using this powerarmor as the justification. Just my feeling but it is probably beyond the intent, or scope, of the spell.

Intent's irrelevant, discussing how wide the scope is and how to get around it is the thread's purpose.

It already allows really cheap SDC suits to provide hundreds of points. *shrug*

Also keep in mind it's not actual MDC, it only acts like it against MD attacks. SDC attacks will still harm it normally and full-auto SDC machineguns will whittle it down easily enough. It would also burn from SDC fires.

Tor wrote:Could always cast a weight-reducing spell once the dance-enchantment was done...

Although to enchant the armor I think you need to dance around while wearing it... so you'd need to enchant it first... but then ti wouldn't be normal, catch 22 I guess.

One possible way might be to temporarily empower the human wearer with superhuman strength so they could dance while wearing it?

The suit is 11' tall, but designed for people about 6' tall. it's barely not a robot, without the hydralics it'd be impossible to dance properly no matter how high your strength, you could barely swing the arms in it, let alone do a ritual properly, nor would the 7 foot legs move properly without the hydralics and movement systems.

It never says you have to be a GOOD dancer... the onus is basically on the caster not the participant. I figure you could be a limbless torso and just twerk a bit and it would work.

Tor wrote:It never says you have to be a GOOD dancer... the onus is basically on the caster not the participant. I figure you could be a limbless torso and just twerk a bit and it would work.

Rituals tend to be fairly precice. I dont' think everyone has to get it perfect, I am reasonably sure clodding around in something so big and heavy as to wreak the music with the thumps of it's steps would wreak it.

If this were the case then I think you'd need the dancing skill and familiarity with African rituals to benefit from it, but it's worded like pretty much anyone can benefit from it.

Only clear requirements:
*jump out of crowd
*grab weapon (or be wearing armor, I guess?)
*dance wildly
*wave the weapons (assume that armor-waving is basically inherent to dancing wildly while wearing it)
*sustain wild-wave-dance for 5 minutes

Keeping up a wild pace in dead power armor or even a heavy exoskeleton would be tough for 5 min though

I can see noisiness putting some penalties on the singers doing the ritual but so long as they got rhythm they should be able to keep it.

So the question is
1) would it even BE armor if its an over sized slab of metal that can't be properly moved
2) can you 'dance wildly' in such a thing?

Remember it has to be "ordinary armor" to work. If its a slab of metal....how are you moving the limbs with out the motors if its almost twice the height of the pilot there is no way that your legs go to the feet for instance, with all the gyros removed how are you balancing it so you can 'dance wildly?', and with out those motors.....with out the ability to move it (its not small enough to have the legs be piloted....so robotic forelegs/forearms are probably required)....is it really armor?

If the book calls it armor, I'd say so. A suit of armor designed for a giant is still armor even if worn by a Gnome or an In'Valian.

Proper movement isn't needed for the ritual, just 'wild' movement. Probably attainable by temporarily increasing the strength of the dancer via drugs / spell. Balance isn't needed to dance wildly, you could even dance lying on the floor. Dance does not have to be bipedal.

Tor wrote:If the book calls it armor, I'd say so. A suit of armor designed for a giant is still armor even if worn by a Gnome or an In'Valian.

Proper movement isn't needed for the ritual, just 'wild' movement. Probably attainable by temporarily increasing the strength of the dancer via drugs / spell. Balance isn't needed to dance wildly, you could even dance lying on the floor. Dance does not have to be bipedal.

That logic doesn't hold though.
1) if you cant use it as something, then its not something.
2) It doesn't CALL it armor. It calls it power armor. When you remove the 'power' part....then its not power armor anymore....

To use something as armor, it just needs to protect you from damage. There is no minimum amount of mobility required for something to be armor.

2: yes, the idea is you remove the 'power' components and just have the Warmonger be big bulky SDC protection, and enchant that, like some kind of super-platemail.