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It's been batted around since TSC came out about what to do to mecha that were more or less homegrown or booted from canon to make them comparable to TSC standards. Today is not that. The question is which mecha would you not update beyond the basics to make it fit the updated system? My choice is the Veritech car from Strike Force. Thoughts?

1st what do you define as "update beyond the basics to make it fit the updated system"?

Overall I liked the VT Car on many fronts in 1E, but I absolutely hated the depicted artwork. It looks like a very impractical car design, one more suited to the race track than off-road work.

Actually a lot of the Strike Force and Return of the Masters stuff can easily be re-worked as Improvised Mecha Units. That was done in a previous thread that has since been locked and I don't recall off hand what pages (EDIT: around Page 13) they can be found on, but: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=127101.

Instrumecha can die a horrible horrible death and never be spoken of again....

jaymz wrote:Instrumecha can die a horrible horrible death and never be spoken of again....

Instrumecha as weapons can die a horrible death. if they're confined to one off custom jobs useful only for a band's gimmick, meh.

Tell that to post invid invasion players of the era that tried to use them all the damnable time....and they are called mecha so they count

The reconstruction era VT car. I would not update it by keeping it omitted.

Well, I would definately update the VT car's design. I've updated a bunch of Sentinels stuff for my home brew. I suppose I wouldn't update the instrumecha... while I love the idea they just aren't a fit for my universe. However the smaller mecha from Lancer's Rockers I did some work with. Love them.

-POUNCER

The VT car has kinda made it in, except its now called the Silverback. The Myrmidon also eats up a lot of this role.

I'd say the Bioroid Interceptor has done a good job of replacing the Assault Battloid (though I did my own version of such for a recent SC game).

I don't think the Zarian mecha would fit in all that well, though that isn't a blanket refusal on the stuff in Strike Force. The EBSIS battloid could easily become an IMU. The Crusader, Defender and Mini-MAC can keep their background as trials mecha for the UEEF. The Light Battloid doesn't excite me much though, especially with the improved ASC battloid stats.

REF destroids are kinda iffy, with the Condor Battloid eating a lot of the Excaliber and Gladiator roles and the missile loads on Alphas meaning not as much fire support is needed.

The Unicorn PA is in service as of the early 2010s now, so the Micronian PA becomes a tad redundant. Tornado Battle Bike could become a VR-010 series cyclone.

Personally, I am in love with the Sentinels Destroid designs. I've done everything I can to update and create a history to keep them in my game line. (smiles)

i've been re-purposing the Strike Force mecha art to be non-UEG designs for my EBSIS reboot. they're obviously derived from the 1st gen destroids.. but in a different fashion than what the ASC went with. just using the art and otherwise starting over from scratch also meant the designs could be made more interesting.

tobefrnk wrote:Personally, I am in love with the Sentinels Destroid designs. I've done everything I can to update and create a history to keep them in my game line. (smiles)

Me too, just love those designs. Have fully statted all of them including the Zent models these days.

-POUNCER

Jeffar wrote:The VT car has kinda made it in, except its now called the Silverback. The Myrmidon also eats up a lot of this role.

Well the Silverback is the VM-9, so there is room for other Veritech ground vehicles in the VM-# line, even w/overlap from other mecha lines counted in potentially. Weather those are all just prototypes or something else at this point is open to fan speculation. Art wise though the VT car needs a revamp IMHO though.

Jeffar wrote:I don't think the Zarian mecha would fit in all that well, though that isn't a blanket refusal on the stuff in Strike Force.

Zarian Mecha not fit in well? They are easily reworked as production IMUs (which is what every IMU in NG/GP SBs basically IS) and that is what they where originally IMHO. Their backstory of course could use a some revision to avoid the campaign (though some of the old modules like Strike Force could be updated).

Jeffar wrote:REF destroids are kinda iffy, with the Condor Battloid eating a lot of the Excaliber and Gladiator roles and the missile loads on Alphas meaning not as much fire support is needed.

I don't think the Condor can replace the Excal or Gladiator, it just doesn't have the staying power given both Destroids have endurance beam cannons where the Condor has a gunpod w/a limted number of shots (range handicap to, its gunpod range starts at the low end of the Destroid capacity). Even missiles don't necessarily go to the Condor (42SRM OR 64Mini), given the Excal (24SRM PLUS 36Minis) and Galadiator (16SRM PLUS 36 Minis) have mix load, so can make better missile selection based on range (why fire an SRM when a Mini can reach it) if not damage (though with volleys...)

Jeffar wrote:The Unicorn PA is in service as of the early 2010s now, so the Micronian PA becomes a tad redundant.

the Unicorn PA (and other ASC PA) is also around 10-11ft tall, the Micronian PA is much more compact IINM, so it could be tied into the Cyclone history in producing a more compact PA than the ASC units. It could also be used as REF/UEEF non-variable PA based on Cyclone Technology (much like the VM-9 is based on Cyclone technology, or the Condor is a non-VT spinoff, etc).

glitterboy2098 wrote:e been re-purposing the Strike Force mecha art to be non-UEG designs for my EBSIS reboot. they're obviously derived from the 1st gen destroids..

I don't think you've touched upon the Gladius yet at your site, but how would you handle that one given it has CADS, its design seems more based upon the VF-1's Armored Battloid system to.

Never liked the VT Car. The Silverback and/or Myrmidon is a better designed "car" for the post apocalypse Robotech Earth. The VT Car's low profile and track-like wheels and base makes it only useful of cleared interstates (which dont exist anymore). Even in 1st Ed, I ignored it ever existed.

I do miss the EBSIS destroids though. Even with the updated ASC mecha in 2d Ed, their concepts can be used. I tend to think the larger destroid-like versions were simply created off of stolen ASC designs and assumed they would be larger like that of the UDEF destroids when they were put into production...slapping conventional weaponry in spots where they assumed weapons would be. Perhaps they only got the aesthetic designs and no notes to scale or weapon placement. But since the EBSIS does not officially exist anymore, you would have to introduce them to 2d Ed anyway.

Personally, I am in love with the Sentinels Destroid designs. I've done everything I can to update and create a history to keep them in my game line. (smiles)

The MAC III is canon now anyway, it appeared in LLA, which means it was Yune approved. Im hoping to see it in the Marines book.

I've also thought of using the old EBSIS battloids as homegrown knockoffs by a non-UEG nation. I may have the old sentinel destroids show up on colony worlds as either a homegrown unit or cast offs from the UEEF that they didn't want anymore.

A lot of the strike force stuff can be nixed. I would like them to expand on ground type VT's, an actual tank would be cool, low visibility in open fields and hill areas, more maneuverable in Battloid mode in urban and mountainous areas.

They really need to redesign the Destroids from the Sentinels, the 80's look is really dated for it's design.

I have updated the Sentinel Destroids and the Revised return of the masters mecha. I love them all.

>- Sentinels- Update Destroids to Early Pioneer mission units and self-defense units on earth in late 2020's
>- Southern cross: New Art for EBSIS units, foreign power knock offs from reconstruction era. (incorporate Zent deisgn elements)
>- ROTM2ed: Alter the Art for the Super-Logan to incorporate new production art, Super-Alpha- alter to experimental fast-pak from mid-2030's predecesor to 2040's Fast-packs not compatiable with Beta. Bioroids as IMU type designs from invid occupation.
>- NWO: Keep the land ship... The Tri-stars in Orbit needed something to practice precise orbital strikes on.
>- Strike Force: Zaria Units as IMUs and Malcontent IMUs. (except shell FPA) Experimental Destroids filled as about the same.
>-Lancer's Rockers: Because Macross 7 is soo cool.... Instrumech need upgraded stats, EBSIS/Invid Mecha can fall tot he halls of history, like the 80's red-scare the promoted its existence..
>- Rifter #5: ZB-hovertank thing... would need major work, early Pioneer mission design for Zents, (its just to big and bulky to fit in the era's tech)

i've been repurposing the Strike Force mecha into EBSIS units.

and i was going to modify several of the "return of the master's" human mecha into units used by the colonial defense forces for the colonies the UEEF established. (basically, they're ASC style units witn non-PC systems.. but built to a more UEEF fighting style to make up for the colony's more limited manpower by increasing the overall firepower and capabilities of each mecha)

the Return of the Master's bioroids and such i'm giving to a tyrolian splinter faction.

in each case though, i'm pretty much rewriting from the ground up, i'm just reusing the art.

Colonel Wolfe wrote:>- Sentinels- Update Destroids to Early Pioneer mission units and self-defense units on earth in late 2020's
>- Southern cross: New Art for EBSIS units, foreign power knock offs from reconstruction era. (incorporate Zent design elements)
>- ROTM2ed: Alter the Art for the Super-Logan to incorporate new production art, Super-Alpha- alter to experimental fast-pack from mid-2030's predecessor to 2040's Fast-packs not compatible with Beta. Bioroids as IMU type designs from invid occupation.
>- NWO: Keep the land ship... The Tri-stars in Orbit needed something to practice precise orbital strikes on.
>- Strike Force: Zaria Units as IMUs and Malcontent IMUs. (except shell FPA) Experimental Destroids filled as about the same.
>-Lancer's Rockers: Because Macross 7 is soo cool.... Instrumech need upgraded stats, EBSIS/Invid Mecha can fall tot he halls of history, like the 80's red-scare the promoted its existence..
>- Rifter #5: ZB-hovertank thing... would need major work, early Pioneer mission design for Zents, (its just to big and bulky to fit in the era's tech)

[disclaimer] The following are my own opinions and should not be taken personally by anyone. [/disclaimer]
LR ......NOOOOOOO!!! not the stupid (aka un-cool) instrument weapons. *shakes heads violently* No No No NO!
On the upside from M7 at least the LR weapons were weapons. Not a plane that ???flys itself??? cause he ain't flying the plane and playing at the same time, that just shoot speaker warheaded missiles.....*throws out the splinters of the rule of cool cause it broke up when it ran into the wall of stupid*
And that is just the space battles. I am glad the store I was getting the ep from went out of business before I could get the dirt-side battle sections.

On other notes I sort of agree with the rest of it.

Strike Force
I made the Veritech car from a sort of 'official IMU' where a conversion kit would be used to take 2 (or even three) heavily damaged VF-1's and turn them into a single VT car. The mecha would then be used as a scout and to laze targets for aircraft and artillery.

The Defender RDF Destriod I kept as a Civil Defense destroid. The art work hints to the mecha having the same lower chassis as the -04 series destriods.

The Zaria male power armor, I turned into a Close Quarters PA used by Zent ship board defense specialists. Unlike the Q-Rau and Nousjadeul-Ger the art work for the mecha hints that it is a true power armor. The net result is a Zent in power armor that can do what Breetai did to mecha with his bare hands in the anime.

Return of the Masters (2nd ed)
Super Logan is really perfect to join the TSC mecha as an updated version of the Logan.

The Zent Striker battliod is a good mecha to complement the Z-series Destriods in the upcoming UEEF Marines book. It basically gives the Q-rau pilots something to pilot close to their old mecha.

Rifter #5
The REF Zentraedi Heavy Assault Pod is huge, and could easily be turned into a mobile artillery unit that unlike a MAC II or III could make it's own atmospheric entry.