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1. Wave 2 is expected due in December 2015, possibly sept/october but not likely...
They really are trying to get it out there.

2. Max and Miriyia gencon minis are likely to be re-released to KS backers with additional exclusive products (no specifics yet)

3. The "Advanced" rulebook is on its way. It is currently going through some editing and tweaking.
Some of the rules in question (blast markers shooting at the ground) are the result of certain people making changes in the final rules that were not caught before printing.
(Some things were also blamed on certain people, such as a lack of unit points and content in the main rulebook, etc)

I talked to Carmen personally at the Open House and about the rulebook, etc. He was unhappy with the final result and had some choice words for some people that I can't name. Anyways...if you look at the rules and layout from a board game perspective it makes more sense, most board games use lots of cards, etc. (Looking at you Fantasy Flight Games).

However, from a war game perspective it doesn't make any sense at all. They know this and they are seeking to rectify the situation if at all possible.

is this a purchase book or free pdf errata?

So it would seem wave 2 is firming up to be around December 2015? News but not exactly good news if you are outside he US, perhaps.

Wave One arrived late August and assuming the same delivery model is used, I would expect the only difference will be US Retail before US backers this time round, either way UK/Euopr would see product around May 2016, Australasia a month or so later and the poor old RoW backers is sadly anyones guess. Rock the boat PB reverse the order and send the RoW stuff out first this time round?

Your comments about the rulebook sound like someome passing the buck. Early on we were told that PB did not like the Ninja Division draft and they were taking over control (Carmen?) so not sure why after a year in pre prod and final editing at PB that they can say they are not happy and looking to blame some mysterious force for sabotaging their ruleset - missing points values were ND's fault, hah it must have been an editorial decision at PB surely, which added 15 pages af painting guides with non friendly paint codes to the book instead?

As for being laid out like a boardgame, I do not see it at all. The force cards if anything are very reminiscent of early GW games eg Epic Space Marine and of late Warmachine. If anything the ruleset is heavily influenced by PB and their RPG rules - MD damage why? Overelaborate meleee rules for a mass combat game etc.

It will be interesting to see what "advanced" rules really are, I have a feeling that again we are looking at the RPG conversions above all else. If they are updated rules/corrections then surely these with optional rules that Carmen feels were missing should be in the form of a free PDF errata/update sheet.

Max /Miryna okay, but why was this not done at the start?

Are you sure? I thought Palladium and Carmen were heading up the rules from the start? ND was always just doing the models/game pieces right? Maybe an internal dispute?

I'm all for adding point cost in the books.

Paint codes aside, I do like the painting guide in the back a lot.

Good to hear a new rulebook is in the works.
And I agree - the current rulebook is NOTHING like a wargames rulebook. It comes off as more of a draft where rules are mixed with ideas, concepts, and creative writing. I still think that the "complete" rulebook was not what most folks used in testing.

If they are updated rules/corrections then surely these with optional rules that Carmen feels were missing should be in the form of a free PDF errata/update sheet.

Agree with this. There have been questions for long enough that I would think we would have seen some comments about these development errors or 'better' rules existing already. And if they were supposed to be in the rulebook from the start, saying they need tweaking makes me think that maybe they were not ready.

Either way, I hope we get a solid improvement.

Much like the other list that was leaked (or 'leaked') a few days ago, I'll believe it when PB deigns to update us themselves.

Until then it carries no weight behind it. At worst, it's just fan speculation/baseless rumour, at best it becomes PB 'testing the waters' on some thoughts that they fear might be controversial, and want plausible deniability in case anything starts getting heated again.

If the 'omg wth huge' update Kevin has been teasing for an entire quarter comes to pass and contains these (and other) items, then we can discuss in earnest the ramifications of those choices.

But for now it might as well include "every backer gets a pony" for how much I believe it.

Having spoke with several people at the POH, I was frustrated and happy with what was going on.

Even with some insider insight, the whole project had a lot of issues which most of us won't ever see or hear about. Not to defend them, but if you have ever worked on large projects with 3 very different stakeholders who all have veto power, then you might understand the difficulties with this project.

With that said, having to wait yet another 7 months is really painful. The chance to get mini's which I didn't really notice when I was buying into the Kickstarter yet saw at the POH and really want, that is cool. The "Advanced" rule book, well honestly why not just have a Rule Book 2.0, give it free to any of the KS supporters via PDF and sell it as the new updated Rule book in hard copy? That to me is the right choice.

Here to more waiting.

Apologies if this comes across as pedantic, but between the three stakeholders, I don't think ND would be considered to have 'a veto'.

HG could send things back for further work. PB could send things back for further work. ND were the workers.

While they may or may not have fully delivered everything that PB/HG told them to at 100% specifications, that's just the nature of work, not a 'veto'.

Forar wrote:Apologies if this comes across as pedantic, but between the three stakeholders, I don't think ND would be considered to have 'a veto'.

HG could send things back for further work. PB could send things back for further work. ND were the workers.

While they may or may not have fully delivered everything that PB/HG told them to at 100% specifications, that's just the nature of work, not a 'veto'.

That I think was (is still) one the issues, ND wasn't just a "worker" as people seem to think they were. This was much more of a 3-way partnership that was filled with a long series of 3-way hand shakes, agreements, contorting, changes and with luck a lot of learning.

The fact that all of us still don't have a full picture (including myself) seems to make me think that it was much more complicated than anyone ever thought it would be.

I kinda figured that there would be a significant update to the rules after having played with them for awhile. If I were Palladium, I'd go ahead and make a Wave 2 box set like the core box and have a nice, printed copy of the Advanced/Updated/2.0 rules, cards, and game aids included. It'd basically be another copy of the game with Wave 2 models and cards instead of Wave 1, but I'd be down for that.

As it is, the rulebook seems to be written in a way such that the project started out as a big-box supplement to the RPG and then someone had the idea of making it into a WH40K-type tournament game, too. If it was supposed to be a tournament game all along, the rules are too loose to satisfy tournament gamers, but adequate for playing out RPG skirmishes.

Aside: Splitting info on the cards form the rulebook does have an underlying logic to it, even if no one wants to admit it: You have to to buy a box set or model kits to get them—and you need them to play the game. A PDF of the rules that players pass around between themselves won't give you everything you need to play the game as written. You could compose scenarios, if you wanted, and play those out. But you'd couldn't play the tournament-style games that the rules encourage. The PR mistake was in not spelling that out clearly on the box and in the rules.

Is there a thread that discusses what the POH tournament experience and feedback was? That's what I'm most interested in. Probably it's been posted and I'm just not finding it...

I realize we are all desperate for some sort of information and the Powers That Be are being abysmally lax about providing information but to take a post from "some guy" and treat it as anything other than rumors and gossip is wrong.

I could just as easily post a list of my own

!. Palladium spent all of the KS funds overproducing wave 1 which they can't sell so there is nothing left for Wave 2.

2. SONY bought the rights to robotech to do a real movie and harmony Gold no longer has any ownership of Robotech and PB has lost the license to do any Robotech related projects so there will be no wave 2.

3. All of the files, templates, molds, etc for wave 2 were in the same bag with all the drawings and got stolen as well, so no wave 2.

(All theories I've heard from supposed "sources in the know")

Now, my list is just as authoritative as the original posters and certainly paints a much bleaker picture then his does but is probably also just as much horse manure as his is so maybe instead of allowing all of these silly rumors and innuendo continue we should be working to get a real, honest to god, huh??? is happening update from Palladium?

Here's a video from the OH where Kevin talks about wave two and the future of rrt. It's kinda like an update.

http://youtu.be/YuWEgDUKocg

It's 20 minutes of my life I'd like back.

Spoiler alert, you can stare at the word 'soon' for that long and basically get the same result.

... don't mind me, my plane is delayed and I'm cranky.

This was just posted a while ago.

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™

Our focus for the next few months is going to be heavily on Robotech® RPG Tactics™. We want to see RRT Wave Two released by the end of the year, but we have a number of other things coming sooner to support the game line that we think will please our Kickstarter backers and all our supporters very much. We had a good talk with Harmony Gold USA last week and they have green-lighted our plans. We are hammering out the final details right now and will be in a position to start revealing them the week of June 1, 2015.

We will also be working to get a few new book titles released before Gen Con Indy, including Robotech®: Expeditionary Force Marines™, amongst others.

Kryptt wrote:This was just posted a while ago.

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™

Our focus for the next few months is going to be heavily on Robotech® RPG Tactics™. We want to see RRT Wave Two released by the end of the year, but we have a number of other things coming sooner to support the game line that we think will please our Kickstarter backers and all our supporters very much. We had a good talk with Harmony Gold USA last week and they have green-lighted our plans. We are hammering out the final details right now and will be in a position to start revealing them the week of June 1, 2015.

We will also be working to get a few new book titles released before Gen Con Indy, including Robotech®: Expeditionary Force Marines™, amongst others.

So, in other words, a four line paragraph that after you remove the vagueness and generalizations, boils down to "soon".

Gotcha.

It seems suspicious that PB seems gung ho on getting new stuff out as long as it's not wave two. I hope this isn't some indicator that their low on funds for completing wave two.

More worrying than any lack of funds (which think is rumoured rather than fact) seems to be the lack of visible progress on any designs. There was a rumour of file issues a couple of months back so has the whole process stalled and if ND are no longer involved who is picking up the ball?

Surely after two years there would be more to show even if it were only approved final renders prior to mold making.

Agree it still reads as soon and the promise from the 1st June is still only to trickle down information to the backers.

So, in other words, a four line paragraph that after you remove the vagueness and generalizations, boils down to "soon".

Gotcha.

Thanks for the laugh.

They could save a ton of time with updates by just saying soon.

As for progress there should be a lot more breakdowns and such to show off. They showed several wave 2 figs at various cons and such leading to gen con last year. So knowing that why not tell backers where the hold up is?

This here is my real issue. PB keep promising better communication with the backers and yet they keep telling us to wait for important news.

Why do they need to make a new rulebook after only having product on the shelves for a short time? Why is Wave 2 having such issues?

Sqir

Of course that is the 64 million dollar (or 1.4 million if you will) question and the one that requires the straight answer at the moment.

The new con exclusives should not have taken up much development time, so given that we had at least 3d renders for everything near the end of the KS itself, Why are we not seeing more stuff on show ready for pre-production?

The worry is that Wave 2 is looking sidelined as PB announce the green light on new "exciting" stuff. Sorry give us the stuff you promised first in a timely manner - it is so disheartening that you are now talking at the end of this year, of course even longer outside the US by some months if you run true to form.

Okay Kevin has put in an non negotiable date of the 1st June for the start of the new updates. Do not let us down again, make them proper meaningful updates, not "Ohhhh you are going to love this, but we cannot tell you what is is yet". Keep it simple and precise, tell us what is happenning now and if it is bad/crappy news share it with us, after all we pledged money to support this, didn't we?

You know what is happenning so tell us. You know what, it saves a lot of wild speculation and rumour mongering. Take time each week to update us properly here and on the KS site. You have let yourselves down in many eyes and nothing but honesty and hard work is likely to get a lot of people back on your side.

wilycoyote wrote:Okay Kevin has put in an non negotiable date of the 1st June for the start of the new updates.

Just so we're all on the same page, it's not "the 1st of June", it's "the week of June 1st".

Given their usual newsletter schedule, I'd expect it more in the Thursday/Friday/Saturday range rather than right on the 1st.

Fair enough

For some reason I'm not placing faith in us getting actual news, just more of soon and jazz hands.

Oh of course not.

But it's fun to have new 'targets' to watch sail by.

At this point I wouldn't be shocked either way (further delays or a giant info dump bringing us up to speed).

But it's going to need to be substantial and *thorough* to meet the expectations they've set with 3 months of teasing and hype.

If it boils down to "omg GHQ yay, wave two is being worked on, see you in three more months!" there'll be rioting.

Forar wrote:If it boils down to "omg GHQ yay, wave two is being worked on, see you in three more months!"

This is actually what I'm expecting. I've noticed this is what passes for "meaningful" communication. Now with wave two (maybe) coming out towards the end of the year I'm thinking in my head more like March or April for US backers. I'm not ragging on PB I'm just basing this on experience with PB. After all that's just how PB operates as I've been reminded by many overzealous fans here.

Forar wrote:If it boils down to "omg GHQ yay, wave two is being worked on, see you in three more months!" there'll be rioting.

It's almost like I've been paying attention for the last couple of years. >.>

Stocktigon wrote:I talked to Carmen personally at the Open House and about the rulebook, etc. He was unhappy with the final result and had some choice words for some people that I can't name.

Spill some beans! What were Carmen's concerns about the rulebook? What did he want changed? Skip the choice words if you like, but I am certainly interested in his thoughts on what needs to be altered.