Can Cosmoknights Fly?

[eliakon]

On a couple of other threads the issue of Cosmo Knights and their flight has come up.

I have argued that they do NOT have an innate ability to fly at supersonic speeds at will but instead that they use the same 'transform to energy after meditation' mechanism as their FTL flight, just that in atmosphere they fly at supersonic speeds instead of supra-light speeds.

In the interests of not threadjacking those threads I have opened this one.

Thoughts?
Is there something that supports innate flight in canon that I am overlooking?

[Cyber-Knight]

You're wrong.

[say652]

I agree with the must use ftl ability in atmosphere to fly.
I have also seen every gm and player use the mach one per level as a free ability.
Allowing them to fly at any given time for no ppe charge.

In the description I personally feel a ck flying in atmosphere must use their ftl ability in atmosphere to use flight powers.

[Svartalf]

In an Atmosphere, the CK can fly at Mach1 per level of experience

so they can fly /thread

[42dragon]

The Cosmo-Knights have no notation of Flying Speed in the attributes section. Flying in atmosphere is part of the Superluminal Flight ability and section.

So no, Cosmo-Knights cannot naturally fly in atmosphere without meditating and expending PPE and MDC.

[glitterboy2098]

In an Atmosphere, the CK can fly at Mach1 per level of experience

so they can fly /thread

note the location though..
"2. Superluminal Flight"

where it goes on to say that they can convert to energy and that energy travel at high speeds. outside of an atmosphere it moves at FTL velocities.

in an atmosphere it just says "1 mach per level"

so while 'flying' in atmosphere they'd still have to be in energy form, going by how it is written. and it would still require 10 minutes of meditation first.

[Svartalf]

I don't think so, energy form is solely for actually superluminal flight, mach speed atmospheric flight is just that, flight... I'm not even sure it expends PPE to achieve, unlike the energy form supeluminal displacement... I'm pretty sure of author's intent in this case, even if it's poorly formulated.

[say652]

To fly uses the ftl ability. Makes 100% sense to me.
Flying is an ability for a cosmoknight to fly they must use and abide by the restrictions of their flying ability.

[eliakon]

I don't think so, energy form is solely for actually superluminal flight, mach speed atmospheric flight is just that, flight... I'm not even sure it expends PPE to achieve, unlike the energy form supeluminal displacement... I'm pretty sure of author's intent in this case, even if it's poorly formulated.

Then why have it as a sub line to another power if its really a separate power?

Why not have two powers
Flight: Can fly Mach 1 per level

and

FTL Flight: Can transform blah blah blah


By linking these two it seems clear to me that the intent is that when in space you turn into energy and fly FTL, when in atmosphere you turn into energy and fly supersonic.

I find it interesting that no place in the books is the ability of cosmoknights to fly on their own mentioned other than some of the space sections....and that is hardly in an atmosphere in the first place!

[Svartalf]

I suspect poor editing, not that it's unusual at PB... now, if they would release the orignal manuscripts for the books they have butchered, it might help....

but mostly, I feel that flight in energy form in an atmosphere is absurd, the energy packet would just go straight out of the atmosphere rather than anywhere meaningful across the planet.

[eliakon]

I suspect poor editing, not that it's unusual at PB... now, if they would release the orignal manuscripts for the books they have butchered, it might help....

but mostly, I feel that flight in energy form in an atmosphere is absurd, the energy packet would just go straight out of the atmosphere rather than anywhere meaningful across the planet.

We already have multiple examples of energy flight in the game (Children of Light, Systems Failure Bugs, Heroes Unlimited, Etc...) so We can pretty safely say that energy flight in atmosphere is quite definitely a thing in this game.

[say652]

I just am not a fan of these cosmic boy scouts qnd support anything that makes them less......desirable as a player character.

[glitterboy2098]

I find it interesting that no place in the books is the ability of cosmoknights to fly on their own mentioned other than some of the space sections....and that is hardly in an atmosphere in the first place!

[/quote]
and the only place that mentions "superman" flight for them is that super long fiction peice that ran in the rifter.. which had a lot of non-canon stuff showing up in other parts, and was written by a fan.

[Svartalf]

dunno, I always interpreted "atmospheric flight" as superman style flight, quite distinct from the flight in energy form, even though its mentioned in that section

[flatline]

dunno, I always interpreted "atmospheric flight" as superman style flight, quite distinct from the flight in energy form, even though its mentioned in that section

This has always been my take on it, but to be honest, I've never really spent the effort to look at CK's in much detail. They're not the kind of character I typically like to play.

However, somehow or other I got the notion in my head that CK's often fight space battles. How do they do that without a superman-style flight ability?

When I get the chance, I'll take a closer look at what's written.

--flatline

[Tor]

I think an interestnig house rule to compromise between the two views might be:

make a Cosmo-Knight pay the PPE/MDC to initiate their Mach flight, but don't make them pay the 10 minutes of meditation.

This would give incentive for them to be ground-bound and would avoid casual flying while in undercover scenarios since they would have to pay the cost every time they touched the ground and wanted to get up again, which would be draining.

You're wrong.

That's not too helpful =/ We ought to explain out reasoning for our opinions.

in response to post in previous thread viewtopic.php?p=2862463#p2862463

The Cosmo-Knights have no notation of Flying Speed in the attributes section. Flying in atmosphere is part of the Superluminal Flight ability and section.

That is an interesting argument, as we do commonly see a flying speed listed under attributes for many species capable of flight.

However I don't think your argument holds water because Dragons (your name surprises me you didn't remember them) also list their flight MPH under natural abilities rather than as a Spd attribute.

it requires that one accepts that art is canon. Which I do not accept. (I will be willing to change my stance if someone can provide a written statement that art is canon)

Art is implicitly canon the same way that text is implicitly canon. Since when do canon books explicitly say "every page written in here is canon". Canon is the default, that's why Rifters explicitly remind us when canon doesn't apply to Palladium publications.

When art doesn't match up with text, we can assume that to be a custom variant of what it represents, or an illusion to disguise its true form, like with that missile thing in Mercs.

In the case of the cover of Three Galaxies, there is also text in the book explicitly telling us that the guy on the cover is a Cosmo-Knight, so there's text for you.

However we can't draw any conclusions from this, because it is entirely possible to enchant a Cosmo-Knight to allow him to fly in space in physical form even if he is not normally able to do so. Much like, much as I want to use the cover to say "see? 2 cosmic weapons are definitely possible" I don't know for sure his paired war hammers are cosmic weapons, and even if they were, he might have borrowed one from a friend rather than created a second.

The second is accepting that the flight power is indeed a separate power that is just has its description tacked on to a totally unrelated flight power].

Since flying at mach speeds is not 'superliminal' we know it is clearly distinct.

"Each use costs the character 30 P.P.E. and temporary expends 30 M.D.C. in an atmosphere the cosmoknight can fly at Mach One per level of experience." Its pretty obvious the flight in the atmosphere is the sub-light speed of the energy flight and not an entirely separate power.

They're linked in that they're both flight, but the meditation is presented to charge "FTL powes". Mach flight is not FTL powers.

If the 'each use costs the character' statement applied to atmosphere flight, it would have followed it, rather than preceded it.

Since granting them a separate flight power requires me to accept that the author did not actually intend what was written, but instead intended something totally different....I reject that separate flight.

This doesn't require us to second-guess author intentions, just recognize that sometimes authors forget to separate 'powers' bullets even when they move within the same section to talk about something that is no longer the bolded thing. Like on page 62 with the Noro under "ISP" they list "considered to be major psionics" which is not a function of ISP. Or on page 79 under the Machine People, under "7. Invulnerabilities:" it moves from talking about stuff they are impervious to (on topic) to mentioning when they fall into comas and what they need to eat to get out of them. Various "MDC by location" sections not only discuss MDC, but also have accessory notes like penalties for called shots, even though called shot penalties are not listing an MDC.

Even looking elsewhere in the Cosmo-Knight OCC itself, on page 102, number 9 of 'Powers of the Cosmo-Knight' is called "Bonuses", which aptly described the first paragraph. But the following paragraph no longer discusses bonuses, and instead discsusses immunities and sleep needs. We know from the Machine People that 'Bonuses' and 'Invulnerabilities' are supposed to be separate sections, and that bonuses are not even supposed to be classified under 'special powers'.

[Alrik Vas]

The intent is that they fly, even if it's a house rule GM's need to do for it to work as intended, that's fine. If you bind everything by it's exact wording, instead of using a more sensical judgment (which this game and it's authors often prescribe) then you will have a very silly game.

However...I don't personally have a problem with making Cosmo-knight perform some kind of trick in order to bring up their flight power. To be honest, i think everything like superpowers (including superpowers themselves) should have a cost to reflect the experience of the user (more PPE, you can do it more often, etc).

That's a different discussion though.

[Nightmask]

The intent is that they fly, even if it's a house rule GM's need to do for it to work as intended, that's fine. If you bind everything by it's exact wording, instead of using a more sensical judgment (which this game and it's authors often prescribe) then you will have a very silly game.

However...I don't personally have a problem with making Cosmo-knight perform some kind of trick in order to bring up their flight power. To be honest, i think everything like superpowers (including superpowers themselves) should have a cost to reflect the experience of the user (more PPE, you can do it more often, etc).

That's a different discussion though.

So you think nearly everything in the game should have a cost to be using their abilities? Because everything short of a baseline human and a few others like elves has super-powers.

[Nightmask]

To fly uses the ftl ability. Makes 100% sense to me.
Flying is an ability for a cosmoknight to fly they must use and abide by the restrictions of their flying ability.

How does that make sense? The FTL ability is explicitly about flying faster than the speed of light, that has nothing in common with flying at Mach Speeds in an atmosphere.

[Nightmask]

The Cosmo-Knights have no notation of Flying Speed in the attributes section. Flying in atmosphere is part of the Superluminal Flight ability and section.

So no, Cosmo-Knights cannot naturally fly in atmosphere without meditating and expending PPE and MDC.

Nothing requires a notation under attributes for flight speed as long as it's a listed ability elsewhere. It's a nice bit of redundancy if one does so but it's not required. Just as you don't have to put 'PS is considered supernatural' in the attributes section as long as it's listed elsewhere.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The flying speed in atmo seams to be tacked on as an after thought into the FTL ability text. Which, the FTL text, is to PB standard and not well written leaving room for GM interpretation.

Standing alone the sentence would say that they do have the ability to fly at MACH speeds in atmo w/o activating the FTL power all the time. But it isn't standing alone.

If you take the cosmo-knight story in the rifters as an example then CK's can fly w/o activating their FTL powers. For there are at least a couple times that there was a fight in space and the CK's participating in it were flying.

[eliakon]

The flying speed in atmo seams to be tacked on as an after thought into the FTL ability text. Which, the FTL text, is to PB standard and not well written leaving room for GM interpretation.

Standing alone the sentence would say that they do have the ability to fly at MACH speeds in atmo w/o activating the FTL power all the time. But it isn't standing alone.

Exactly. Its not a solo line, its a clarification that the energy transformation power, if used in an atmosphere instead of in vacuum provides Mach flight instead of FTL flight.

If you take the cosmo-knight story in the rifters as an example then CK's can fly w/o activating their FTL powers. For there are at least a couple times that there was a fight in space and the CK's participating in it were flying.

Yeah....I don't consider a fan-fiction story (especially one that breaks the game rules in other places) to be a good source of canon for the game.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I would say that the 3G book 1 needs an update (or official errata in the rifter) about things wrong in it.

Maybe with the update get rid of the DB designation for the 3G books. *shrugs*

[Borast]

Well, by canon, they can...in an atmosphere, at M1/level, after spending the PPE and MDC, and meditating for 10 minutes.
However, since they are beings of pure cosmic energy while flying, here comes the most important question... CAN THEY DO ANYTHING WHILE FLYING?

[Tor]

Standing alone the sentence would say that they do have the ability to fly at MACH speeds in atmo w/o activating the FTL power all the time. But it isn't standing alone.

I'd argue that it is. Even though it's under the FTL powers number-bullet, the structure of the conversation leaves it alone.

See above examples where things are jammed into later paragraphs in a section which do not fall under the scope of its setting (Cosmo Knight bonus/immunity; Noro ISP/psionic-level; Machine People invulnerabilities/healing; MDC-by-location/called-shot penalties)

its a clarification that the energy transformation power, if used in an atmosphere instead of in vacuum provides Mach flight instead of FTL flight.

No it isn't, transforming into energy only happens to go FTL.

They do this a brief period of time, which ends after they go a given distance.

If the Mach Speed used the same (meditate, expend MDC/PPE) format, then it too would have been given a duration/distance limitation.

The heading is 'superluminal flight'. Mach flight is not superluminal. So it is clearly a distinct ability which the author forgot to give its own heading, which I've mentioned examples of.

[eliakon]

Standing alone the sentence would say that they do have the ability to fly at MACH speeds in atmo w/o activating the FTL power all the time. But it isn't standing alone.

I'd argue that it is. Even though it's under the FTL powers number-bullet, the structure of the conversation leaves it alone.

See above examples where things are jammed into later paragraphs in a section which do not fall under the scope of its setting (Cosmo Knight bonus/immunity; Noro ISP/psionic-level; Machine People invulnerabilities/healing; MDC-by-location/called-shot penalties)

its a clarification that the energy transformation power, if used in an atmosphere instead of in vacuum provides Mach flight instead of FTL flight.

No it isn't, transforming into energy only happens to go FTL.

They do this a brief period of time, which ends after they go a given distance.

If the Mach Speed used the same (meditate, expend MDC/PPE) format, then it too would have been given a duration/distance limitation.

The heading is 'superluminal flight'. Mach flight is not superluminal. So it is clearly a distinct ability which the author forgot to give its own heading, which I've mentioned examples of.

That is one interpretation yes. I am saying the opposite. that the intent was that it was to give them limited flight FTL or Air for a price. One way fair and all that.

[Q99]

I point to the cover of 'Three Galaxies' and the flying CK, which I believe confirms the intent of flying.


Only FTL is indicated to have price, and considering there's no duration on normal flight, it doesn't seem like a limited use thing.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I point to the cover of 'Three Galaxies' and the flying CK, which I believe confirms the intent of flying.


Only FTL is indicated to have price, and considering there's no duration on normal flight, it doesn't seem like a limited use thing.

There is also no duration listed on the FTL power ether. The main reason I said that that text was poorly written.

[Jerell]

Good point. This probably needs errata/Rifter clarification so there is no room for argument. If you want to go hard core rule lawyer/RAW interpretation, you could certainly strongly argue for doing it once, and then doing it from that point on without limit since there is no duration.

However in this case I think some 'GM-sense' is helpful. IMO, it seems the Atmospheric flight is at will.

Certainly the meditation time, PPE and MDC cost to first turn into cosmic energy to use travel FTL/Superluminal is only able to be done outside an atmosphere. That part, at least, seems clear to me.

[say652]

I will gm it as it counts as the listed flight ability.
Can headhunters cast spells? No its not written in the class description.
To me it feela like a free ability or rearranging text to suit your needs.

Yes an admitted and proud munchkin feels this is cheating.

[Q99]

There is also no duration listed on the FTL power ether. The main reason I said that that text was poorly written.

It's per-use. You go FTL once, then once you stop, you need to do it again.


Additionally, there is the matter that it says you have to be out of atmo for the FTL pre-meditation.

It is poorly written, but the two have to be separate for Knights to be able to fly into space so they can go FTL.

[Jerell]

Demon Knights can fly in the depths of space just like a Cosmo-Knight. Their base flight is Mach 10 plus one Mach per each additional level of experience. They do not possess Super-Luminal Flight like the Cosmo-Knight

Due to the most recent precedent cited above, I would say this suggest CKs also have non-FTL space flight. Since Demon Knights fly just like Cosmo-Knights, minus the Superluminal flight, in space.

[Q99]

Demon Knights can fly in the depths of space just like a Cosmo-Knight. Their base flight is Mach 10 plus one Mach per each additional level of experience. They do not possess Super-Luminal Flight like the Cosmo-Knight

Due to the most recent precedent cited above, I would say this suggest CKs also have non-FTL space flight. Since Demon Knights fly just like Cosmo-Knights, minus the Superluminal flight, in space.

Ooh, good catch! Answers that cleanly enough ^^


And interesting- they're a good deal faster, making them a rare foe who can run from a Cosmo Knight, even an experienced one, most of the time.

[Jerell]

Perhaps. Or perhaps Cosmo knights can fly at will in space at Mach 10 + 1 per level just like a Demon Knight.

[Tor]

I point to the cover of 'Three Galaxies' and the flying CK, which I believe confirms the intent of flying.

Also the intent of creating 2 cosmic weapons being possible, but neither is certain.

Cosmo-Knights' ability only mentions them flying in space if they turn into energy. Text doesn't indicate that their 'I won't become pure cosmic energy' mach-speed atmospheric flight works in space.

For that reason we might assume the Cosmo-Knight is flying through some other means. Or maybe he's just drifting aimlessly in space adopting a cool pose to intimidate people so they don't catch on to what a vulnerable sitting duck he is.

There is mention in the OCC that their ARMOR allows them to fly at superluminal speeds... which is odd because:

1) There is no mention of needing your armor to be intact to use the ability.
2) You turn to pure energy so would your armor even still exist until you reformed?

Makes me think what this means is: having hundreds of bonus MDC which don't cause you pain when depleted (unlike their base MDC) would allow you to sit around in space for 10 minutes and meditate with a lower chance of being distracted/killed before you were ready to go FTL.

Or perhaps Cosmo knights can fly at will in space at Mach 10 + 1 per level just like a Demon Knight

I guess if you just want to start giving them abilities they don't have.

RAW tho, Cosmo-Knights can't fly at Mach Speeds in Space any more than Demon Knights can fly at Mach Speeds in an atmosphere. DemonKs are space-locked Machs, CosmoKs are atmos-locked Machs.

[Q99]

Yea, RAW you're right, a CK just has to fly up to the edge of atmo, then when the stop, start meditating there.


Though the talk of them fighting spaceship makes it a very easy thing to justify houseruling.

[say652]

Hey if we're just trying to give abilities that classes don't have.
All cs units are plus 100 md to all attacks.
Because none have that ability and they do fight mdc creatures.

if a rewrite is done I will gladly allow the ck to fly at ridiculous speeds for free, until then ten minutes and ppe/mdc cost.

[Jerell]

Or perhaps Cosmo knights can fly at will in space at Mach 10 + 1 per level just like a Demon Knight

I guess if you just want to start giving them abilities they don't have.

RAW tho, Cosmo-Knights can't fly at Mach Speeds in Space any more than Demon Knights can fly at Mach Speeds in an atmosphere. DemonKs are space-locked Machs, CosmoKs are atmos-locked Machs.

Demon Knights have at least some atmosphere flight ability. "Demon Knights do possess enough flight power to escape the bonds of a planet's atmosphere when necessary."

In no way do I maintain that the Phase World book write up mentions mach space flight for Cks. Dimensional Outbreak does however, in that DKs can fly in the depths of space just like CKs. Take from it, or not, what you will.

[drewkitty ~..~]

There is also no duration listed on the FTL power ether. The main reason I said that that text was poorly written.

It's per-use. You go FTL once, then once you stop, you need to do it again.


Additionally, there is the matter that it says you have to be out of atmo for the FTL pre-meditation.

It is poorly written, but the two have to be separate for Knights to be able to fly into space so they can go FTL.

The way it is written there is no Speed descriptor (i.o.w. how long it takes for the CK to travel the distances) for the FTL flight....it only says the CK can go 1 LY per level.

[eliakon]

In no way do I maintain that the Phase World book write up mentions mach space flight for Cks. Dimensional Outbreak does however, in that DKs can fly in the depths of space just like CKs. Take from it, or not, what you will.

Now this is a good catch.
I would certainly be willing to consider this to be a valid indication of the ability of CKs to fly. If the power is original or a retcon is debatable sure but not the presence of it.

[Tor]

Though the talk of them fighting spaceship makes it a very easy thing to justify houseruling.

Fighting doesn't necessarily require mobility They could say, perch on an allied fighter ship and act like a turret and let their allies do the small movements for them.

Hey if we're just trying to give abilities that classes don't have.
..
if a rewrite is done I will gladly allow the ck to fly at ridiculous speeds for free, until then ten minutes and ppe/mdc cost.

Seems a little well-poisony there s652. We're in the midst of discussing whether or not a class has an ability, not whether to give them something they don't have.

Why is it hard to accept that this is a place where a bullet-separation should have been done, like the other examples I pointed out from other pages on Phase World?

Rules for how Machine People recover from comas and rules for when they die is listed under "Invulnerabilities". Should this mean that Machine People are immune to comas and immune to death?

Rules for Cosmo-Knights being impervious to radiation are listed as 2nd paragraph under "bonuses". Does that mean if a Cosmo-Knight is fighting someone with Karmic Power who negates their bonuses, that suddenly they are vulnerable to radiation?

Sometimes a section just moves from discussing "A" into discussing "not A" without creating a new section. That doesn't mean notA is suddenly subject to the function of A.

Demon Knights have at least some atmosphere flight ability. "Demon Knights do possess enough flight power to escape the bonds of a planet's atmosphere when necessary."

Ah true, forgot that part. No idea how fast / how long that takes though. Maybe they move at Spd attribute?

Dimensional Outbreak does however, in that DKs can fly in the depths of space just like CKs. Take from it, or not, what you will.

CKs can fly in the depths of space via changing to cosmic energy and doing the superluminal flight trick after meditation+sacrifice(PPE+MDC). "Just like" I think just refers to the ability to fly through space, not the ability to do it in the same speed range.

The way it is written there is no Speed descriptor (i.o.w. how long it takes for the CK to travel the distances) for the FTL flight....it only says the CK can go 1 LY per level.

True, this was added later in errata. Rifter 15 page 18 says 5 light years per hour, so that'd be 12 minutes per light-year.

Now this is a good catch. I would certainly be willing to consider this to be a valid indication of the ability of CKs to fly.

Their transformation to cosmic energy and going 5LYpH is already called "Superluminal Flight" so I see that as referring to the existing ability not imparting a new one.

[Q99]

Hey if we're just trying to give abilities that classes don't have.
All cs units are plus 100 md to all attacks.
Because none have that ability and they do fight mdc creatures.

They already have MDC, so that'd be a houserule without any fluff reason to add it.

if a rewrite is done I will gladly allow the ck to fly at ridiculous speeds for free, until then ten minutes and ppe/mdc cost.

As written, the mach flight doesn't require charge up and, indeed, you can't charge up while in atmo. The fact that charging requires being in space, while the STL flight is explicitly in atmosphere, gives a contradiction to that interpretation within the original write-up.

Throw in the Demon Knight's statement, and there you go. In-rules evidence.

[Tor]

I don't think the Demon Knight statement shows anything. =/

It would be kinda interesting if Cosmo-Knights could only charge up in space and had to charge to fly in an atmosphere. It'd almost be like being a fallen angel or something. They would have to stay in flight because if they ever touched the ground, they would be grounded and unable to fly again unless they found some other means to return to space. *wants to cap them knights*

DemonK to CosmoK: "How can you obey that... THING?"

[SpiritInterface]

The Atmospheric Flight is separate from the FTL Flight. It specifies that the FTL Flight can ONLY be performed in outer space. It says nothing about the Atmospheric Flight needing to charge up, or that the CK transforms in any way.

[Tor]

Yup, I mean an interesting house rule or cap. Or maybe have a magic curse that limits them like this.

[Q99]

I don't think the Demon Knight statement shows anything. =/

It would be kinda interesting if Cosmo-Knights could only charge up in space and had to charge to fly in an atmosphere. It'd almost be like being a fallen angel or something. They would have to stay in flight because if they ever touched the ground, they would be grounded and unable to fly again unless they found some other means to return to space. *wants to cap them knights*

DemonK to CosmoK: "How can you obey that... THING?"

Which, while interesting, would kinda defeat their purpose as independently wandering heroes who don't need a spaceship, and is major enough you think it'd come up.

[Tor]

They don't need a space-ship for long-term journies, there's no minimum distance in their FTL (even if some might want to house rule it in segments of 1 light year) so they might be able to use FTL to travel from planet to planet and perhaps allow gravity to drag them into an atmosphere so they can engage ther normal flight.

Where it would come up is if a Cosmo-Knight wants to go around dog-fighting a bunch of Fighters in space, but interestingly, the inability to do so helps emphasize them as world-defenders.

[say652]

So Cosmoknights get free Mach per level flight in Atmosphere.
I may just give them a global Teleport ability then. Or a fancy way of saying allow the FTL ability to be used in atmosphere then.
Self only Teleport with pretty much no max distance and the instant death clause changed to double ppe/mdc changed to ppe&mdc cost or double mdc cost and Zero Movement.
I will also allow the Space Blast Charging at the same cost ppe&mdc or double mdc to use Charged Blasts in Atmosphere.

[Nightmask]

So Cosmoknights get free Mach per level flight in Atmosphere.
I may just give them a global Teleport ability then. Or a fancy way of saying allow the FTL ability to be used in atmosphere then.
Self only Teleport with pretty much no max distance and the instant death clause changed to double ppe/mdc changed to ppe&mdc cost or double mdc cost and Zero Movement.
I will also allow the Space Blast Charging at the same cost ppe&mdc or double mdc to use Charged Blasts in Atmosphere.

Yes they get 'freee' Mach flight in an atmosphere, like everything else they have that doesn't cost them anything and like how everything else that can fly gets it 'free' because it's part of them as a Cosmo-Knight. They don't pay for it just like they don't have to pay for a lot of things or anyone else because what you get is what you get, others get other things that Cosmo-knights don't.

[say652]

The charging to fly was a great equalizer, now in my Games I am allowing space powers in Atmosphere for the ppe&mdc OR double mdc cost increase.
I figured why not. The already are one of the strongest out of book occs, lets just kick them up to full power in Atmosphere and make it hurt.
Gotta restudy the Code of Honor so I cam just catch people falling and take those Spectacular Cosmic Powers away.