An alternate Character build system (MY House Rules)

[Cobalt-Blue]

I've never liked the random nature of the Heroes Unlimited, and despite the title, the character build concept is far from unlimited.
I use the following House Rules
1. Since I think the random power generation rules is the first and worst violation of the term "Unlimited" I have done away with it completely. Instead if you're playing with a character that gets powers you've got five points to buy powers. Minor points cost one power, major powers cost two. Moreover each player gains one point every other level after first. These can be used to buy new powers, upgrade a minor power to its major incarnation, or banked to buy a power set later. These earned points can even be used to give robots and power armor superpowers so a human size android character might eventually have Supernatural Strength, or a Psionic character might develop the teleport power, or an armored villain might learn to use magic. (Cost three points to become a mage or a psi outside of your power category, but you get the full effects.)

2. Players do not roll their attributes. They start with a ten in every stat and have 40 points to spread out among the stats. Simple, clean, and no need for rolling until powers and skills are bought. That way a player could spread those points out evenly, and still end up with no bonuses or pick and choose a couple of good attributes while the rest are under the bonus threshold but are not below average.

Alignment: I'm pretty laid back on alignment. A recent player decided to play a male Valkyrie (A trick of Loki betting Freyja that she can't create one). So instead of the alignment system, I handed the character a copy of the Asatru Nine Noble Virtures and said, "This is your alignment.")

Experience Points: I don't usually give out XP as numbers. When I feel the characters have learned enough, I give out fractions of a level. It saves me time, and allows the characters to advance usually one level every two to four game sessions.

Starting a new campaign this Saturday with those rules. It's a modern setting that I've defined as (XXXXXX Universe First Class) What if a popular super hero comic universe were to start over at Year one in 2015. The early famous heroes are all out there bashing up New York City in the first days of their careers. The players are on the West Coast starting out as teen heroes. (Using modified rules from Rifter 16 on teen heroes.)
The team consists of mutant with APS Plasma, CEF: Fire and Healing Factor. A Bestowed character who was originally from Beacon Hills California whose father moved him to Santa Monica after his mother and sister were killed by Oni and werewolves and his dog was sexually violated by one of the werewolves. This is the guy who Loki tricked Freyja into turning into a Valkyrie. (Winged Flight, Superhuman Strength, Extraordinary PP, Natural Combat Ability. An Experiment with APS Electricity, Force Constructs (and saving one point for third level); Finally a Mermaid underwater character from an alternate reality based off the Mermaid Immortal in PU2.

Input? Suggestions?

[Glistam]

Seems intriguing. I'd like to see how this continues to progress as the characters level up. Does the acquisition of new powers become unbalancing at later levels? Do they quickly overshadow any sort of skill-based or tech-based character? I'm interested in seeing how time answers those questions.

[Cobalt-Blue]

Seems intriguing. I'd like to see how this continues to progress as the characters level up. Does the acquisition of new powers become unbalancing at later levels? Do they quickly overshadow any sort of skill-based or tech-based character? I'm interested in seeing how time answers those questions.

Since technology and skill based characters gain these points as well- they can use them to purchase technology with super powers so it works out in the end.

As for unbalancing, we'll see. Since they will be eventually dealing with some major villains from that particular universe then it should work out, sometimes by buying some powers twice. Let's face it XXXXXX Comics database defines one particular character on a team of four as having the ability to lift between 75 and 100 tons. That is a strength that is unobtainable using the strict rules of HU. It's a Supernatural PS somewhere between 350 and 400. That's stronger than every god listed in Gods of the Megaverse. And he's not even the strongest character in that universe.
I'm currently playing the idea of Mega-Powers which would ramp up major powers to a level that would match that, but haven't decided yet. The idea that a Mega Power could only be bought with experience and would take the strength into lifting powers of 1 ton per point of strength and multiply the extra damage on the Supernatural chart by a factor of four. Like I said, I haven't decided yet.

Part of this is my looking for a game system with which to define characters in my various novels published on Amazon.com. I pick a system, create the characters using that system and then write the story. Right now, because of the flavor of HU, I'm leaning toward using it. A couple of years back I even started Player's Guide for one of my more popular universes using HU. Never even considered publishing it, but I wanted to see if it could be done. I had do perverted simian carnal acts on HU to make it work but I did it.

[Cobalt-Blue]

First game went well tonight. Used a modified story-line from the GM's Guide: Trouble Down the Line tying it into the XXXXX comic universe. Mainly replacing S.C.R.E.T. with another organization where someone tried hard to make an acronym come out to spell XXXXXX. The players were all approached because of their unique abilities and sent to a public magnet school run by the strained acronym agency to help them learn their powers. They were basically too young to put into the initiative that created the first official team and their names popped up on a "kill list" from an evil organization named after a Greek monster. The agency felt something needed to be done to keep them from being either killed or turned into villains.

The characters heard about the mage fight in the park, they got their table crashed at a "Taste of Asia Festival" on the beach by the flying witch from the adventured, and discovered that someone else they weren't expecting had powers who got Bella out of danger while they fought the Shadow Beasts. (Mage made a good choice of Globe of Daylight spell that reduced the Shadow Beasts powers) I changed the name of the evil Mystical Font organization to that of a black magic group from a certain WWII hero's history.
The showdown with the succubus was interesting when the mermaid mage and the succubus both tried to banish the other to their home realm while standing on a nexus point. The male Valkyrie managed to crit the succubus and finished that fight but not before she managed to "Carpet of Adhesion" one hero to a tree, and open the mermaid up from stem to stern with a sword attack. They found out about the aliens trying to get home and convinced the Mystic Font (decided to not change the name of that group since they were all pretty low level mages) to help the aliens. A certain werewolf from the comics named after a dog breed turned up investigating a survivor who got out of Beacon Hills alive (the male Valkyrie). He was the cousin of the mutant who took the same last name so I couldn't resist. He thought the Valkyrie was a werewolf.

Now they've discovered that some kid hacked the agency with a strained acronym to get himself into the school, because he got tired of getting the crap beat out of him at his old school, and that he has some interesting powers himself.
So far, most of the meetings between the characters of that comic universe have been only minor appearances to guide the heroes and sometimes give them a clue when they get lost. The advantage of being on the West Coast for this XXXXXX First Class story is that all the major story lines in the early comics of that company tended to happen either back east in NYC or in the Western desert.

Started the morning in the E.R. with a ruptured eardrum, so I was a little cranky running the game half deaf. Still I think I managed to pull off a good game. Everyone had a good time and the characters advanced half a level. The male Valkyrie is already talking about when he reaches third level upgrading his wings to megawings. The shapeshifting alien is talking about using his "banked point" and the one he gets at third level to purchase CEF: Electricity to enhance his APS Electricity. The Mermaid mage is looking to add Ocean Magic to her repertoire of spells.

[Dakchronos]

This feels really balanced. might go with an extra 10-15 attribute points, and reduce starting power points to 3. May help the level up feel more dramatic. Is there any thought for Mega Beings or Immortals for this set up? If you wanna look at more Magic related powers, there's Heroes of the Megaverse. This Idea is gold.

[Cobalt-Blue]

Like I've said, I've been playing with the idea of allowing players to make certain powers Mega-Powers. The general cutoff point for maximum strength for heroes in the two major comic publications is 100 tons of lifting power. In Palladium that's a 400 Supernatural PS. To allow players to reach this, a character who bought supernatural strength for his power may have to buy it a second time with experience points. That would take him to fifth level.(An extra point for third level and an extra point for fifth level) and by that time he might be able to have his PS up to 100. At seventh level he could upgrade that strength to Mega-Strength which would increase its lifting and damaging power by a factor of 4 and put his lifting power at 100 tons.
Other players might do this with their energy expulsion or with powers that generate significant amounts of SDC, or even speed, increasing them by a factor of four into the "Mega" power range. This option also helps players focus their extra points to become good at one or two things.

[Glistam]

Regarding strength, if you add in the strength rule from later games that every 5 P.S. points over 30 increases the lift/carry by 30%, you'll reach a maximun lift of 100 tons before reaching a P.S. of 100.

[Cobalt-Blue]

Regarding strength, if you add in the strength rule from later games that every 5 P.S. points over 30 increases the lift/carry by 30%, you'll reach a maximun lift of 100 tons before reaching a P.S. of 100.

Would you mind directing me to the book where that piece of information is located? My copy of HU 2E is a second printing with a date of 1998 so I was unaware of that piece of information.

[ShadowLogan]

Regarding strength, if you add in the strength rule from later games that every 5 P.S. points over 30 increases the lift/carry by 30%, you'll reach a maximun lift of 100 tons before reaching a P.S. of 100.

Would you mind directing me to the book where that piece of information is located? My copy of HU 2E is a second printing with a date of 1998 so I was unaware of that piece of information.

AFAIK Glistam may not be referring to a HU book, but rather a book like Rifts Ultimate Edition (attributes beyond 30 on pg284), or Rifts Conversion Book 1 Revised (same section type, pg 8-9). Though in all honesty this is presented as being only for ordinary/normal PS, though for a house rule it could be taken beyond that level of PS. HU2E (7th Printing) does have attributes above 30 section, but omits that bit.

[Cobalt-Blue]

Regarding strength, if you add in the strength rule from later games that every 5 P.S. points over 30 increases the lift/carry by 30%, you'll reach a maximun lift of 100 tons before reaching a P.S. of 100.

Would you mind directing me to the book where that piece of information is located? My copy of HU 2E is a second printing with a date of 1998 so I was unaware of that piece of information.

AFAIK Glistam may not be referring to a HU book, but rather a book like Rifts Ultimate Edition (attributes beyond 30 on pg284), or Rifts Conversion Book 1 Revised (same section type, pg 8-9). Though in all honesty this is presented as being only for ordinary/normal PS, though for a house rule it could be taken beyond that level of PS. HU2E (7th Printing) does have attributes above 30 section, but omits that bit.

Okay, I did the math for that and found a hundred tons comes around Supernatural PS 90. However, the problem comes in that there is no way playing strictly by the rules to get one's Supernatural PS up that high, without taking a bunch of powers that don't fit the standard brick template. I'm looking at ways of adapting this- I actually LIKE this rule, and plan on using it to fit in to allow players to reach that lifting power. That might be where the mega strength power could come in. Instead of affecting the lifting power, use these rules, but it raises the PS by another 30+2d6. With the point buy system for stats, that could get the player within that realm of strength quiet easily.

Thanks to both of you for that information.

[say652]

I use the hu2 lift charts, but the cb1 damage charts.

Exceptional lift ps x 200 carry times 100, deals md as enhanced strength chart.
Superhuman lift ps x 300 carry ps times 200, deals md as robotic strength.
Supernatural lift ps x 500 carry ps times 300, deals supernatural damage as chart.

[Traska]

I really like this character system! I have to admit that the middling level of "super" in this game doesn't feel very four-color to me, so this is a great boost to that system, and also allows a character to really grow with each level.

[Cobalt-Blue]

I really like this character system! I have to admit that the middling level of "super" in this game doesn't feel very four-color to me, so this is a great boost to that system, and also allows a character to really grow with each level.

Thank you. I would have thought that someone else would have posted something similar to this by now. All it does is take the randomness away where you don't want it and let's the player play the kind of character s/he wants (with the gm's permission of course)

[say652]

I would like to use this system to build a character, but I wish to use the Warmonger occ I created as my occ.

[Cobalt-Blue]

I would like to use this system to build a character, but I wish to use the Warmonger occ I created as my occ.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. I recognize Warmonger from Gramercy Island. In my Ambassador's of the Megaverse Demo game I did, they fought him. It took the whole party to take him down.

[say652]

Basically a eugenics mod for 8.3 million.

I would like to make one a mage with a few minor powers.

[Cobalt-Blue]

Basically a eugenics mod for 8.3 million.

I would like to make one a mage with a few minor powers.

Well, that's between you and your GM. I posted these an example of the House Rules I use for my games as an example of how to overcome some inherent difficulties with the HU system.

[say652]

Warmonger level:1.
Iq:21.
Me:20.
Ma:10.
SnPs:45.
Pp:28.
Pe:21.
Spd:20.
Pb:10.

2 power potions Eugenic Budget.
3 power points Magic Power Category:D-Shifter.

[NMI]

Warmonger level:1.
Iq:21.
Me:20.
Ma:10.
SnPs:45.
Pp:28.
Pe:21.
Spd:20.
Pb:10.

2 power potions Eugenic Budget.
3 power points Magic Power Category:D-Shifter.

Don't hi-jack a thread.
Start a new topic and feel free to link this current topic in your new thread.

[SittingBull]

I've never liked the random nature of the Heroes Unlimited, and despite the title, the character build concept is far from unlimited.
I use the following House Rules
1. Since I think the random power generation rules is the first and worst violation of the term "Unlimited" I have done away with it completely. Instead if you're playing with a character that gets powers you've got five points to buy powers. Minor points cost one power, major powers cost two. Moreover each player gains one point every other level after first. These can be used to buy new powers, upgrade a minor power to its major incarnation, or banked to buy a power set later. These earned points can even be used to give robots and power armor superpowers so a human size android character might eventually have Supernatural Strength, or a Psionic character might develop the teleport power, or an armored villain might learn to use magic. (Cost three points to become a mage or a psi outside of your power category, but you get the full effects.)

Input? Suggestions?

Could also use points to increase skills or even pick up a skill when you are not due one perhaps.

[Cobalt-Blue]

I've never liked the random nature of the Heroes Unlimited, and despite the title, the character build concept is far from unlimited.
I use the following House Rules
1. Since I think the random power generation rules is the first and worst violation of the term "Unlimited" I have done away with it completely. Instead if you're playing with a character that gets powers you've got five points to buy powers. Minor points cost one power, major powers cost two. Moreover each player gains one point every other level after first. These can be used to buy new powers, upgrade a minor power to its major incarnation, or banked to buy a power set later. These earned points can even be used to give robots and power armor superpowers so a human size android character might eventually have Supernatural Strength, or a Psionic character might develop the teleport power, or an armored villain might learn to use magic. (Cost three points to become a mage or a psi outside of your power category, but you get the full effects.)

Input? Suggestions?

Could also use points to increase skills or even pick up a skill when you are not due one perhaps.

I actually worked out a system for that too. Instead of normally rolling on the education level, I came up with a different system.
1. Do away with the idea of Educational skills and Secondary skills. Simply skills. (The only caveat to this is that non robotics characters are still at the skill penalty for Robotics Engineering)
2. Characters get as many skills as they have IQ points.
3. Characters can sacrifice up to four skills for an across the board +5% cumulative "training" bonus. So a character with a 16 in IQ would have 16 skills at the skill percentage presented in the texts (see above for caveat). They could sacrifice one of those skills for a +5%, two of them for a +10%, three for a +15%, or four for a +20% to ALL of their skills. So the 16 skills become 12 skills but with a +20% to all skills.
4. Characters gain one extra skill point for every two levels of experience gained. These skills are figured at the character's current levels. (Two reasons: 1st- Just to keep from over complicating the system. 2. Because knowledge does not exist in a vacuum. When we learn something new, we apply previous experience to it. (Sorry the last part is the teacher in me.)

[say652]

So starting from the occ I chose Eugenics, using the 5 super power points 2 eugenics budget, and the 3 remaining to chose D-Shifter magical abilities, built attributes with 140 total attribute points, now I have twenty one skills to build my character.
Correct?

[Cobalt-Blue]

So starting from the occ I chose Eugenics, using the 5 super power points 2 eugenics budget, and the 3 remaining to chose D-Shifter magical abilities, built attributes with 140 total attribute points, now I have twenty one skills to build my character.
Correct?

That would depend on how much you put in your IQ, and if you're willing to sacrifice some of them to gain a skill bonus.

[say652]

I think I will go with quantity over quality, the will improve with levels.
Hand to hand combat? How is that purchased?
Can I buy sharpshooter? Can that be applied to my wide variety of Natural Energy blasts?

[Cobalt-Blue]

I think I will go with quantity over quality, the will improve with levels.
Hand to hand combat? How is that purchased?
Can I buy sharpshooter? Can that be applied to my wide variety of Natural Energy blasts?

Are you testing the system or under the impression I'm running an online game with this? For answers about the system: HtH skills would be bought as 1 skill point for HtH BAsic. 2 for Martial Arts and Expert, and 3 for Assassin. I'm not familiar with sharpshooter. Otherwise, I'm not looking for players. I'm just posting the rules that I am using for my XXXXXX Comics First Class game at the local gaming store.

[say652]

I was looking for a quick system to generate npc villains. This works nicely, I was curious abiut the systems limit.

[say652]

It works fast, eliminates all 30+ attributes, allows nulti class abilities and extreme creativity.
Solid system.

[Cobalt-Blue]

I was looking for a quick system to generate npc villains. This works nicely, I was curious abiut the systems limit.

I'm still learning them. As I stated earlier, I use a gaming system to help define my characters for my different novels. So far this has worked to help me come up with quick stats for the characters for comparison. It also helps me give them some four color definition that's not available either in other systems, or even in base HU. Mainly it lets me reproduce characters with Comic book level powers.

[Cobalt-Blue]

It works fast, eliminates all 30+ attributes, allows nulti class abilities and extreme creativity.
Solid system.

Thanks.

[NMI]

I think I will go with quantity over quality, the will improve with levels.
Hand to hand combat? How is that purchased?
Can I buy sharpshooter? Can that be applied to my wide variety of Natural Energy blasts?

Are you testing the system or under the impression I'm running an online game with this? For answers about the system: HtH skills would be bought as 1 skill point for HtH BAsic. 2 for Martial Arts and Expert, and 3 for Assassin. I'm not familiar with sharpshooter. Otherwise, I'm not looking for players. I'm just posting the rules that I am using for my XXXXXX Comics First Class game at the local gaming store.

He is testing to see how much he can bend the rules so to speak.

[Cobalt-Blue]

I think I will go with quantity over quality, the will improve with levels.
Hand to hand combat? How is that purchased?
Can I buy sharpshooter? Can that be applied to my wide variety of Natural Energy blasts?

Are you testing the system or under the impression I'm running an online game with this? For answers about the system: HtH skills would be bought as 1 skill point for HtH BAsic. 2 for Martial Arts and Expert, and 3 for Assassin. I'm not familiar with sharpshooter. Otherwise, I'm not looking for players. I'm just posting the rules that I am using for my XXXXXX Comics First Class game at the local gaming store.

He is testing to see how much he can bend the rules so to speak.

That would be up to his GM and how cinematic the GM wanted the game to be. These are MY house rules. I'm not demanding that everyone adopt them. I'm finding out if they work for me in the above mentioned game. The DO work for me in defining my characters for my writing.

[say652]

I torture test things. Any who I think I will adopt this system but not charge for the initial occ and have it count as a Megahero.
The option to make a super psionic mage energy blast sharpshooter commando is pretty cool.
And the system keeps attributes in control and the point buy keeps munchkining in check.
Lots of varied abilities just a cap on damage.

[Cobalt-Blue]

I torture test things. Any who I think I will adopt this system but not charge for the initial occ and have it count as a Megahero.
The option to make a super psionic mage energy blast sharpshooter commando is pretty cool.
And the system keeps attributes in control and the point buy keeps munchkining in check.
Lots of varied abilities just a cap on damage.

That's cool. I'm glad you like it.

[SittingBull]

To purchase sharpshooting I would say that would cost about 4 or 5 points, from what I have read. Plus time in game to learn it and that would not be a quick process.

[Cobalt-Blue]

To purchase sharpshooting I would say that would cost about 4 or 5 points, from what I have read. Plus time in game to learn it and that would not be a quick process.

As I am unfamiliar with the skill I would have to either look it up or take your word for it.

[SittingBull]

Aimed shots are an additional +1 for every 5 PP above 15, in addition to WP bonuses.
Called shots are (no aimed bonus from sharpshooting but the normal aimed bonus from WP) +1 for every 3 PP above 15.
+1 to initiative for every 4 PP above 14.
+1 attack when using the weapon sharpshooting it taken for.
Can choose one of the following (or roll 1d6 and pick that many)
1. Can fire a traditional 2 handed weapon, like a rifle, one handed without penalty.
2. Can shoot over his shoulder by holding up a mirror and use the reflection to aim. REduce the bonus to strike by half.
3. Accurately shoot while riding a horse or moving vehicle but strike bonuses are half and called shots are impossible.
4. Shoot accurately while standing on his head or handing upside down.
5. Dodge, roll, or somersault and come up shooting (normally a wild shot), no bonuses or penalties to strike.
6. Ricochet shot. The shooter can bounce bullets, arrows, slines, and other fired projectiles (depending on the WP) off of one surface and angle the shot in such a way that the projectile ricochets/bounces off and hits a different/second target. Inflicts only 1 point of damage to the first surface and full damage to the second. Reduce bonuses to strike by half. Can be done with laser weapons but the ricocheting surface must be mirrored or highly polished.

[say652]

But unless a Gunslinger ir similar occ you only gain one ability, with one type of weapon, and it must be bought for each type of weapon used.

Dodge&shoot Energy Expulsion Light.
Shoot while moving Sonic Power.
That's 6 skill points for two abilities.

[Cobalt-Blue]

Aimed shots are an additional +1 for every 5 PP above 15, in addition to WP bonuses.
Called shots are (no aimed bonus from sharpshooting but the normal aimed bonus from WP) +1 for every 3 PP above 15.
+1 to initiative for every 4 PP above 14.
+1 attack when using the weapon sharpshooting it taken for.
Can choose one of the following (or roll 1d6 and pick that many)
1. Can fire a traditional 2 handed weapon, like a rifle, one handed without penalty.
2. Can shoot over his shoulder by holding up a mirror and use the reflection to aim. REduce the bonus to strike by half.
3. Accurately shoot while riding a horse or moving vehicle but strike bonuses are half and called shots are impossible.
4. Shoot accurately while standing on his head or handing upside down.
5. Dodge, roll, or somersault and come up shooting (normally a wild shot), no bonuses or penalties to strike.
6. Ricochet shot. The shooter can bounce bullets, arrows, slines, and other fired projectiles (depending on the WP) off of one surface and angle the shot in such a way that the projectile ricochets/bounces off and hits a different/second target. Inflicts only 1 point of damage to the first surface and full damage to the second. Reduce bonuses to strike by half. Can be done with laser weapons but the ricocheting surface must be mirrored or highly polished.

Okay, that is something I think I would charge a power point for, like you said five skill points.

[SittingBull]

Nods in agreement.

[say652]

So between the two sharpshooter tricks abd hand to hand Commando, that's 10 of my starting 21 skills.
It's almost like I spent most of my life mastering my powers. Lol.

An unmunchkinable system.

[Zer0 Kay]

I've never liked the random nature of the Heroes Unlimited, and despite the title, the character build concept is far from unlimited.
I use the following House Rules
1. Since I think the random power generation rules is the first and worst violation of the term "Unlimited" I have done away with it completely. Instead if you're playing with a character that gets powers you've got five points to buy powers. Minor points cost one power, major powers cost two. Moreover each player gains one point every other level after first. These can be used to buy new powers, upgrade a minor power to its major incarnation, or banked to buy a power set later. These earned points can even be used to give robots and power armor superpowers so a human size android character might eventually have Supernatural Strength, or a Psionic character might develop the teleport power, or an armored villain might learn to use magic. (Cost three points to become a mage or a psi outside of your power category, but you get the full effects.)

2. Players do not roll their attributes. They start with a ten in every stat and have 40 points to spread out among the stats. Simple, clean, and no need for rolling until powers and skills are bought. That way a player could spread those points out evenly, and still end up with no bonuses or pick and choose a couple of good attributes while the rest are under the bonus threshold but are not below average.

Alignment: I'm pretty laid back on alignment. A recent player decided to play a male Valkyrie (A trick of Loki betting Freyja that she can't create one). So instead of the alignment system, I handed the character a copy of the Asatru Nine Noble Virtures and said, "This is your alignment.")

Experience Points: I don't usually give out XP as numbers. When I feel the characters have learned enough, I give out fractions of a level. It saves me time, and allows the characters to advance usually one level every two to four game sessions.

Starting a new campaign this Saturday with those rules. It's a modern setting that I've defined as (XXXXXX Universe First Class) What if a popular super hero comic universe were to start over at Year one in 2015. The early famous heroes are all out there bashing up New York City in the first days of their careers. The players are on the West Coast starting out as teen heroes. (Using modified rules from Rifter 16 on teen heroes.)
The team consists of mutant with APS Plasma, CEF: Fire and Healing Factor. A Bestowed character who was originally from Beacon Hills California whose father moved him to Santa Monica after his mother and sister were killed by Oni and werewolves and his dog was sexually violated by one of the werewolves. This is the guy who Loki tricked Freyja into turning into a Valkyrie. (Winged Flight, Superhuman Strength, Extraordinary PP, Natural Combat Ability. An Experiment with APS Electricity, Force Constructs (and saving one point for third level); Finally a Mermaid underwater character from an alternate reality based off the Mermaid Immortal in PU2.

Input? Suggestions?

As always your game, your rules, have fun. But I'm pretty sure the randomness in creation is to promote role-playing rather than encouraging roll playing. A role-player should be able to play any role their given like an actor, not need one designed around them like Charlie Sheen:
Charlie: Hey what is my characters name again?
Director: Charlie... Charlie.
Charlie: Oh yeah I keep getting them confused.
Director: Well it was supposed to be Willy but then you had issues reading the script because none of it was for you.

[say652]

I noticed that when people build the perfect character to them, that's when the best role playing happens.
Randomness means, this is what you got ACT!

[Cobalt-Blue]

I've never liked the random nature of the Heroes Unlimited, and despite the title, the character build concept is far from unlimited.
I use the following House Rules
1. Since I think the random power generation rules is the first and worst violation of the term "Unlimited" I have done away with it completely. Instead if you're playing with a character that gets powers you've got five points to buy powers. Minor points cost one power, major powers cost two. Moreover each player gains one point every other level after first. These can be used to buy new powers, upgrade a minor power to its major incarnation, or banked to buy a power set later. These earned points can even be used to give robots and power armor superpowers so a human size android character might eventually have Supernatural Strength, or a Psionic character might develop the teleport power, or an armored villain might learn to use magic. (Cost three points to become a mage or a psi outside of your power category, but you get the full effects.)

2. Players do not roll their attributes. They start with a ten in every stat and have 40 points to spread out among the stats. Simple, clean, and no need for rolling until powers and skills are bought. That way a player could spread those points out evenly, and still end up with no bonuses or pick and choose a couple of good attributes while the rest are under the bonus threshold but are not below average.

Alignment: I'm pretty laid back on alignment. A recent player decided to play a male Valkyrie (A trick of Loki betting Freyja that she can't create one). So instead of the alignment system, I handed the character a copy of the Asatru Nine Noble Virtures and said, "This is your alignment.")

Experience Points: I don't usually give out XP as numbers. When I feel the characters have learned enough, I give out fractions of a level. It saves me time, and allows the characters to advance usually one level every two to four game sessions.

Starting a new campaign this Saturday with those rules. It's a modern setting that I've defined as (XXXXXX Universe First Class) What if a popular super hero comic universe were to start over at Year one in 2015. The early famous heroes are all out there bashing up New York City in the first days of their careers. The players are on the West Coast starting out as teen heroes. (Using modified rules from Rifter 16 on teen heroes.)
The team consists of mutant with APS Plasma, CEF: Fire and Healing Factor. A Bestowed character who was originally from Beacon Hills California whose father moved him to Santa Monica after his mother and sister were killed by Oni and werewolves and his dog was sexually violated by one of the werewolves. This is the guy who Loki tricked Freyja into turning into a Valkyrie. (Winged Flight, Superhuman Strength, Extraordinary PP, Natural Combat Ability. An Experiment with APS Electricity, Force Constructs (and saving one point for third level); Finally a Mermaid underwater character from an alternate reality based off the Mermaid Immortal in PU2.

Input? Suggestions?

As always your game, your rules, have fun. But I'm pretty sure the randomness in creation is to promote role-playing rather than encouraging roll playing. A role-player should be able to play any role their given like an actor, not need one designed around them like Charlie Sheen:
Charlie: Hey what is my characters name again?
Director: Charlie... Charlie.
Charlie: Oh yeah I keep getting them confused.
Director: Well it was supposed to be Willy but then you had issues reading the script because none of it was for you.

I'm a writer/storyteller at heart, hence the 15 or so novels I've now published. I've found that my players are far happier with the story if they can play the character they want in the game instead of being randomly handed something and my saying, "Act." It's not about roleplaying what you're given, it's about playing the character you want within the setting arranged by your GM. Even actors audition for the roles they want to play, they don't get assigned one by a director.

For me and my players, it's about telling the story with the characters they want to play, not about forcing the characters to play whatever the dice give them. My campaigns are NOT an actor's improvisation exercise. Whether the tale is about teenagers growing up in a small Kansas town that suffered a meteor storm several years before, or about this one, XXXXXX Comics First Class, or even my own Cadre 5 Universe, it's about the story, and about the players. It's not about acting, and it's not about the dice.
This has generated some very memorable scenes in our games/stories: From one player character walking up to a heroine from one the two major comics publisher famous for her "hooker boots" and asking, "How much?" to "the poo doo pond" that we never mention to the "hamster ball of doom", to the exchange mentioned in my signature.

I find the system as it stands lacking but there are other aspects I like so I developed MY HOUSE RULES. My players seem to like them as they are. I'm not demanding anybody adopt them. I offer them here for people who don't like to randomly generate something and have to figure out to play. I've been "roleplaying" for almost forty years, my wife for twenty, and almost fifty years between my other players . In that time I've discovered that there are a lot of playing styles out there, and just because someone doesn't randomly generate a character doesn't mean they aren't a good roleplayer.

[SittingBull]

Dead Reign game I just started used all randomly pre-made characters for all the players. Note some of the players didn't have rules books or even know the system so saved lots of time.

[Zer0 Kay]

I noticed that when people build the perfect character to them, that's when the best role playing happens.
Randomness means, this is what you got ACT!

I've seen both ways but far more who have no randomness tend to min max and then don't think they have to RP the min. Then I get to tell them, your too stupid to do that or they're only two points "prettier" than the regent which still equals ugly.
That being said, as a GM I enjoy playing with mature gamers who build characters that resemble multi-faceted people instead of two dimensional videogame characters, who can play the role and don't just play the advantageous. The type of person who thinks Spiderman is a good character because of all the crap he has going on as Peter but can see Superman and instead of thinking he isn't that great because he has all those superpowers, instead thinks WOW he is in an even crazier situation than Peter cuz he can NEVER go back home. It is the humanness the personality someone brings to a character that makes it worth it. And a good actor can do that regardless of a character being pregen, slightly random, or intentional designed. A mediocre actor will have to have the part designed around them and a horrid actor will demand it be all about him and make everything fall apart.

[Zer0 Kay]

I've never liked the random nature of the Heroes Unlimited, and despite the title, the character build concept is far from unlimited.
I use the following House Rules
1. Since I think the random power generation rules is the first and worst violation of the term "Unlimited" I have done away with it completely. Instead if you're playing with a character that gets powers you've got five points to buy powers. Minor points cost one power, major powers cost two. Moreover each player gains one point every other level after first. These can be used to buy new powers, upgrade a minor power to its major incarnation, or banked to buy a power set later. These earned points can even be used to give robots and power armor superpowers so a human size android character might eventually have Supernatural Strength, or a Psionic character might develop the teleport power, or an armored villain might learn to use magic. (Cost three points to become a mage or a psi outside of your power category, but you get the full effects.)

2. Players do not roll their attributes. They start with a ten in every stat and have 40 points to spread out among the stats. Simple, clean, and no need for rolling until powers and skills are bought. That way a player could spread those points out evenly, and still end up with no bonuses or pick and choose a couple of good attributes while the rest are under the bonus threshold but are not below average.

Alignment: I'm pretty laid back on alignment. A recent player decided to play a male Valkyrie (A trick of Loki betting Freyja that she can't create one). So instead of the alignment system, I handed the character a copy of the Asatru Nine Noble Virtures and said, "This is your alignment.")

Experience Points: I don't usually give out XP as numbers. When I feel the characters have learned enough, I give out fractions of a level. It saves me time, and allows the characters to advance usually one level every two to four game sessions.

Starting a new campaign this Saturday with those rules. It's a modern setting that I've defined as (XXXXXX Universe First Class) What if a popular super hero comic universe were to start over at Year one in 2015. The early famous heroes are all out there bashing up New York City in the first days of their careers. The players are on the West Coast starting out as teen heroes. (Using modified rules from Rifter 16 on teen heroes.)
The team consists of mutant with APS Plasma, CEF: Fire and Healing Factor. A Bestowed character who was originally from Beacon Hills California whose father moved him to Santa Monica after his mother and sister were killed by Oni and werewolves and his dog was sexually violated by one of the werewolves. This is the guy who Loki tricked Freyja into turning into a Valkyrie. (Winged Flight, Superhuman Strength, Extraordinary PP, Natural Combat Ability. An Experiment with APS Electricity, Force Constructs (and saving one point for third level); Finally a Mermaid underwater character from an alternate reality based off the Mermaid Immortal in PU2.

Input? Suggestions?

As always your game, your rules, have fun. But I'm pretty sure the randomness in creation is to promote role-playing rather than encouraging roll playing. A role-player should be able to play any role their given like an actor, not need one designed around them like Charlie Sheen:
Charlie: Hey what is my characters name again?
Director: Charlie... Charlie.
Charlie: Oh yeah I keep getting them confused.
Director: Well it was supposed to be Willy but then you had issues reading the script because none of it was for you.

I'm a writer/storyteller at heart, hence the 15 or so novels I've now published. I've found that my players are far happier with the story if they can play the character they want in the game instead of being randomly handed something and my saying, "Act." It's not about roleplaying what you're given, it's about playing the character you want within the setting arranged by your GM. Even actors audition for the roles they want to play, they don't get assigned one by a director.

For me and my players, it's about telling the story with the characters they want to play, not about forcing the characters to play whatever the dice give them. My campaigns are NOT an actor's improvisation exercise. Whether the tale is about teenagers growing up in a small Kansas town that suffered a meteor storm several years before, or about this one, XXXXXX Comics First Class, or even my own Cadre 5 Universe, it's about the story, and about the players. It's not about acting, and it's not about the dice.
This has generated some very memorable scenes in our games/stories: From one player character walking up to a heroine from one the two major comics publisher famous for her "hooker boots" and asking, "How much?" to "the poo doo pond" that we never mention to the "hamster ball of doom", to the exchange mentioned in my signature.

I find the system as it stands lacking but there are other aspects I like so I developed MY HOUSE RULES. My players seem to like them as they are. I'm not demanding anybody adopt them. I offer them here for people who don't like to randomly generate something and have to figure out to play. I've been "roleplaying" for almost forty years, my wife for twenty, and almost fifty years between my other players . In that time I've discovered that there are a lot of playing styles out there, and just because someone doesn't randomly generate a character doesn't mean they aren't a good roleplayer.

Never claimed you were. I was just saying why I thought the RAW were written that way. Number one RPG rule is have fun. So whatever you need to facilitate that.

[Cobalt-Blue]

Never claimed you were. I was just saying why I thought the RAW were written that way. Number one RPG rule is have fun. So whatever you need to facilitate that.

No, you just implied that players who played what they wanted were automatically min maxing and were not good roleplayers-- or to use your word: actors. My point was that this is story telling, NOT acting. You can have a three dimensional character without randomly generating his/her birth order, background, education, and skills. The system as it stands is very LIMITING, NOT UNLIMITED.

If you're spending your whole time worrying about who is min maxing and who is not, then you're not spending enough time on the story. I want storyteller's not actors--I have little use for actors, but I admire good writers. Again, if you want to force your characters to generate random crap for their characters, go right ahead. But that's not what the title of the game suggests, "Heroes Unlimited." Characters in my game who decide on a "dump" stat quickly learn to regret it. Characters who have average stats learn that there's a certain importance to being average in a stat too. These house rules were designed to do two things, which I think I accomplished with them:
1. Allow a player build the character s/he wants instead of some stupid stuff the dice generate (Underwater abilities and APS Fire? what the hell?- yeah, you can build a background for it, but it's a pain in the butt, it's strained, and leaves a bad taste in the player's mouth for having to do it. Players who are forced to do that quickly move to a system where they can BUILD their characters.) Remember, the only older continuous game system for superhero roleplaying does just that. It's biggest problem is it's math heavy (more so than HU) but it has the advantage of a character generator Mutants and Masterminds is grabbing a chunk of the Superhero RPG market because they have two things going for them that HU doesn't. A.) A character build system. B.) A character generator WITHOUT being math heavy like the aforementioned game.

2. It streamlines an overly complicated character generation system. Using the system as it is, it can take over an hour to build one character. (Yeah, yeah, I'm sure you can build one in twenty mintutes-- but you've been at it for a while, and we hear this out of anyone who doesn't want to see a change. And if you have to do it for several villains, and NPCs, it just gets to be too much.) I can use this system and be done in 20 minutes EVERY TIME, and print the character out on a 5x7 notecard.

To be honest, HU has been on the back burner of Palladium for so long that I'm surprised it's still in print. It was one of their first games, but it has moved so far down the support line that some Zombie Apocalypse game which is pretty much a fad, gets more support. Have you looked through the Rifter to see how often an HU article or support piece shows up? If you're lucky, every other issue. Rifts gets more than one EVERY issue. The system needs an overhaul, and it needs to streamline and some actual support!

Some of the ideas here are how my group does that overhaul to allow us to play the heroes we want, and as try to get more NEW people to play it. They aren't min maxers and they aren't bad roleplayers because they do this. They BUILD Characters around concepts, not randomness that makes no sense.

[Daniel Stoker]

I’ll throw in my own 2 cents, I’ve played both ways and while it can be fun I admit I’ve always preferred to be able to build my character. Random bits can be a nice surprise and a totally random character can be nice for a change to deal with something I might not want normally, but to me at least that gets old. I enjoy making characters and coming up with a concept and making it work with both the rules and what the GM allow. But I really hesitate to label one way as better or worse than the other, just one I personally like or dislike more. And doing it one way or another doesn’t really affect how much I RP in the game or not I’ve found but how the GM plays/runs his campaign.


Daniel Stoker

[Zer0 Kay]

Never claimed you were. I was just saying why I thought the RAW were written that way. Number one RPG rule is have fun. So whatever you need to facilitate that.

No, you just implied that players who played what they wanted were automatically min maxing and were not good roleplayers-- or to use your word: actors.

Stop putting your foot in my mouth. I said no such thing I said

I've seen both ways but far more who have no randomness tend to min max and then don't think they have to RP the min.

My point was that this is story telling, NOT acting. You can have a three dimensional character without randomly generating his/her birth order, background, education, and skills. The system as it stands is very LIMITING, NOT UNLIMITED.

Gee sorry you feel that way

If you're spending your whole time worrying about who is min maxing and who is not, then you're not spending enough time on the story.

If you spend NO time on worrying about who is min maxing then there is no point in characters or a story.

I want storyteller's not actors--I have little use for actors, but I admire good writers.

without someone who can play a role (act a part) there is no R in RPG.

Again, if you want to force your characters to generate random crap for their characters, go right ahead.

Your assuming I do. I don't even have my players roll up Nightspawn unless they're out of ideas or want a challenge.

But that's not what the title of the game suggests, "Heroes Unlimited."

Funny I always thought unlimited meant unlimited potential or variations of superheroes not unlimited player control. So does Rifts mean that everything in the game has to have a tear in it including the character sheet? Recon must mean that you have to find everything. Dang TMNT, when it was TMNT was such a let down it didn't only have Teenagers, Mutants, Ninjas or Turtles and damn N&S for having characters other than Ninjas or Superspies.

Characters in my game who decide on a "dump" stat quickly learn to regret it.

That is what I said sorry I used min-max instead of "dump"

Characters who have average stats learn that there's a certain importance to being average in a stat too. These house rules were designed to do two things, which I think I accomplished with them:
1. Allow a player build the character s/he wants instead of some stupid stuff the dice generate (Underwater abilities and APS Fire? what the hell?- yeah, you can build a background for it, but it's a pain in the butt, it's strained, and leaves a bad taste in the player's mouth for having to do it. Players who are forced to do that quickly move to a system where they can BUILD their characters.)

Where in PB does it say a player must randomly roll... anything?

Remember, the only older continuous game system for superhero roleplaying does just that. It's biggest problem is it's math heavy (more so than HU) but it has the advantage of a character generator Mutants and Masterminds is grabbing a chunk of the Superhero RPG market because they have two things going for them that HU doesn't. A.) A character build system. B.) A character generator WITHOUT being math heavy like the aforementioned game.

2. It streamlines an overly complicated character generation system. Using the system as it is, it can take over an hour to build one character. (Yeah, yeah, I'm sure you can build one in twenty mintutes-- but you've been at it for a while, and we hear this out of anyone who doesn't want to see a change. And if you have to do it for several villains, and NPCs, it just gets to be too much.) I can use this system and be done in 20 minutes EVERY TIME, and print the character out on a 5x7 notecard.

how is designing a character faster than randomly rolling powers? No I don't do it in 20 minutes I let my spreadsheet automatically generate one.

To be honest, HU has been on the back burner of Palladium for so long that I'm surprised it's still in print.

and that is sad

It was one of their first games, but it has moved so far down the support line that some Zombie Apocalypse game which is pretty much a fad, gets more support.

but not as much a fad as the Y2K bugs

Have you looked through the Rifter to see how often an HU article or support piece shows up?

nope don't buy em... they cost money

If you're lucky, every other issue. Rifts gets more than one EVERY issue. The system needs an overhaul, and it needs to streamline and some actual support!

Some of the ideas here are how my group does that overhaul to allow us to play the heroes we want, and as try to get more NEW people to play it. They aren't min maxers and they aren't bad roleplayers because they do this.

Good I'm glad you have had a regular supply of mature role players not everyone is that lucky nor does age matter as my 13 year old son is a more mature RPer than my 30 something brother in law.

They BUILD Characters around concepts, not randomness that makes no sense.

Again I'm glad not only do you have mature players but players with imagination or at least imagination that doesn't suffer from creationblock. There is a certain amount of imagination that goes into developing a character around random rolls when one has no initial concept though and I'd argue both are good. Min-maxing on the other hand... not good. Like I said, have fun.

Um... so I don't know why you mention being an author, cuz in this day and age anyone can be 1. an author and 2. a published author. So my question would be what is your real name or pen name because the only real measures of an author are how many people buy their book, but most importantly (to me) is it is a good read, which of course is subjective.

[NMI]

Play nice people!