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I have a player looking at making a couple of characters and I think she's trying to drive me crazy. Her current idea is an Alien that is the Artificial Life Form/Robot but she wants to make use of the Alien Mystic power category. Now the Alien section at the end does note that "The character is immune to psionic powers that are not physical in nature, never tries and rarely sleeps (only needs 3-4 hours of sleep or rest)." So based on the fact that it says diddly on magic and the fact that they do need some rest she feels that the mystic should still work, and I can see the argument but I'm not quite sure how I should handle it, just treat it like I would any other caster, or should there be any limitations because they're an artificial life form?


Daniel Stoker

I believe the category is meant to represent comic/sci-fi characters of the kind commonly referred to as androids (in the Blade Runner/Dragon Ball Z sense), synthezoids, bioroids, reploids, etc., i.e. not strictly robots per se, but artificial beings with life functions that mimic those of natural organisms.

I see nothing in the description that would limit the choice of power category to non-mages and non-psychics. One could perhaps make the argument that these characters should have minimal (if any) P.P.E., but IMHO, as long as the character is still basically flesh and blood, he or she should have the same options as everyone else, so these characters would be able to cast spells, be mutated, train their bodies to physical perfection, etc.

This is one of setting specific rules that make the setting a separate rules set from all of the other settings.

Under the rules of the setting they can be mages or psionists if the random rolls fall that way. With the only limitations being what the GM applies to the char creation for his game.

However, after saying all of that. I might limit this type of char from using magic and psionics. And the Hero powers limited to those available this type of character to those available though the 'Super Invention' power cat.

I see no reason to so limit them; we're told they can be mutants, we're told they can have psionics, we're told they can be mystics; I believe it.

(I figure they would, if anything, probably be better at it than most other aliens -- but if the book says it's a tie, okay, it's a tie.)

This is a good example of Special Snowflake Syndrome.
Yes, normally races like this would have no PPE, and no magical potential. But for some reason in HU they don't have to be that way. Maybe they evolved from spell casting computer aids built by some Elder Race. *shrugs* HU is probably the most flexible of all the games on the question of 'why' since the usual answer is 'because it is the most fun option'

eliakon wrote:This is a good example of Special Snowflake Syndrome.
Yes, normally races like this would have no PPE, and no magical potential. But for some reason in HU they don't have to be that way. Maybe they evolved from spell casting computer aids built by some Elder Race. *shrugs* HU is probably the most flexible of all the games on the question of 'why' since the usual answer is 'because it is the most fun option'

Maybe they're golems!

I admit that is one of the things I like about it since comics pull stuff like this out of the woodwork all the time.


Daniel Stoker

Maybe the artificial life-form is one constructed out of rune-etched materials into which pure magical essence is then poured, which then develops into an intelligent personality with the potential for great magical ability...

Daniel Stoker wrote:I have a player looking at making a couple of characters and I think she's trying to drive me crazy. Her current idea is an Alien that is the Artificial Life Form/Robot but she wants to make use of the Alien Mystic power category. Now the Alien section at the end does note that "The character is immune to psionic powers that are not physical in nature, never tries and rarely sleeps (only needs 3-4 hours of sleep or rest)." So based on the fact that it says diddly on magic and the fact that they do need some rest she feels that the mystic should still work, and I can see the argument but I'm not quite sure how I should handle it, just treat it like I would any other caster, or should there be any limitations because they're an artificial life form?


Daniel Stoker

Nah, she's good to go. It plays like a Warforged magic user from Eberron, run like that.

The thing about the HU way of creating characters is that it only give the player a very basic framework that lets the player 'be creative' about the char's backgrounds. Thus there is a-lot of the char that the player has to invent to fill out the details of the char.

Allen Magic Power Category: Mystic Bestowed Abilities.
Android Humanoid.
Toxic Atmosphere, Race lives in Vacuum of Space amongst Gargantuan Belts of Asteroids.

Military Specialist Education.
Hand to Hand Martial Arts Master.
Spend four Wps any on Sharpshooter in Four Different types of Weapons.

As a gm leaving character creation unchecked cab get out of control very very quickly.

What if this character was the product of an alien version of Techno-Wizardry... one far more advanced than what is currently known on Rifts Earth (though not necessarily MD)?

The "spells" it learns are merely techno-wizard weaponry and devices within its artificial body (learning new spells means adding new TW features). The Invisibility spell for instance would be a TW cloaking field. See the Invisible... TW optics. Magic Net... a TW restraint for capturing criminals alive. Armor of Ithan could be a personal force armor.

Yes the character learns new spells, but with a techno-magical reasoning behind the development of them. This actually sounds like a rather interesting character now that I think of it... might have to stea... ummm... borrow the idea back.

Razorwing wrote:What if this character was the product of an alien version of Techno-Wizardry... one far more advanced than what is currently known on Rifts Earth (though not necessarily MD)?

The "spells" it learns are merely techno-wizard weaponry and devices within its artificial body (learning new spells means adding new TW features). The Invisibility spell for instance would be a TW cloaking field. See the Invisible... TW optics. Magic Net... a TW restraint for capturing criminals alive. Armor of Ithan could be a personal force armor.

Yes the character learns new spells, but with a techno-magical reasoning behind the development of them. This actually sounds like a rather interesting character now that I think of it... might have to stea... ummm... borrow the idea back.

An android created by techno-magic would have to be a form of living magic or non-corporal being bound in technological body, to be able to gather PPE to fuel the 'powers' it has if the powers are fueled by PPE or are techno-magic items that are a part of it's body. Part of the creation process for living magic would be investing of Perm PPE into the creation. See the living magic and familiar upgrading text in the NB:TtGD gamebook.

Another way for an artificial(ly altered) life form could be made via some form of highly developed life altering magics that makes a new race. (e.g.: Altarans...aka B.W.W.) However, this is closer to the Eugenics power cat. Which would not be a bad route for created such a char.

Other magic created Art.LF would depend on mixing of different schools of magic. (see alchemists)

In the Rifts source 1, you could get a TW power plant for a robot.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Razorwing wrote:What if this character was the product of an alien version of Techno-Wizardry... one far more advanced than what is currently known on Rifts Earth (though not necessarily MD)?

The "spells" it learns are merely techno-wizard weaponry and devices within its artificial body (learning new spells means adding new TW features). The Invisibility spell for instance would be a TW cloaking field. See the Invisible... TW optics. Magic Net... a TW restraint for capturing criminals alive. Armor of Ithan could be a personal force armor.

Yes the character learns new spells, but with a techno-magical reasoning behind the development of them. This actually sounds like a rather interesting character now that I think of it... might have to stea... ummm... borrow the idea back.

An android created by techno-magic would have to be a form of living magic or non-corporal being bound in technological body, to be able to gather PPE to fuel the 'powers' it has if the powers are fueled by PPE or are techno-magic items that are a part of it's body. Part of the creation process for living magic would be investing of Perm PPE into the creation. See the living magic and familiar upgrading text in the NB:TtGD gamebook.

Another way for an artificial(ly altered) life form could be made via some form of highly developed life altering magics that makes a new race. (e.g.: Altarans...aka B.W.W.) However, this is closer to the Eugenics power cat. Which would not be a bad route for created such a char.

Other magic created Art.LF would depend on mixing of different schools of magic. (see alchemists)

Or if it was made with the golem spell, or some exotic magic, or some sort of TW Ambient PPE collector, or....
Lot of ways to make a magical robot work, a bunch are even totally rules legal. And that's BEFORE we factor in the HU theory of 'because it works'

The Artist Formerly wrote:In the Rifts source 1, you could get a TW power plant for a robot.

Yeah, but it just provided power, not an ability to actually channel or use PPE in it.


Daniel Stoker

Techno-Wizard Alien Robot aka Golem

Brings up the Techno-Wiz Familiar in the Familiar Wrangler rifter article.

Or the Avian Biomech and Saurian Biomech in Megaverse Builder which are living, machine creatures that have PPE and can link with mages to become their familiar.

So we all agree that this should work, but should there be any differences because they're artificial like they have for psionics, or do we go with "Nothing mentioned, then nothing there"?


Daniel Stoker

say652 wrote:Allen Magic Power Category: Mystic Bestowed Abilities.
Android Humanoid.
Toxic Atmosphere, Race lives in Vacuum of Space amongst Gargantuan Belts of Asteroids.

Military Specialist Education.
Hand to Hand Martial Arts Master.
Spend four Wps any on Sharpshooter in Four Different types of Weapons.

As a gm leaving character creation unchecked cab get out of control very very quickly.

I could see them having HTH Martial Arts, but that hardly makes them a master. But if they are an alien, they should be limited to the career paths made available to that category, shouldn't they? Why would you let them roll for the standard education?

Daniel Stoker wrote:So we all agree that this should work, but should there be any differences because they're artificial like they have for psionics, or do we go with "Nothing mentioned, then nothing there"?


Daniel Stoker

Just because they are an artificial life form, they would not necessarily be limited as they would with Robotics. That is unless you are allowing them to build their character as a robot. The artificial life form option in the aliens category gives you a humanoid with the appearance of a robot but not all the extras you can buy as a robotics character. That is the difference.

Daniel Stoker wrote:

The Artist Formerly wrote:In the Rifts source 1, you could get a TW power plant for a robot.

Yeah, but it just provided power, not an ability to actually channel or use PPE in it.


Daniel Stoker

I did a write-up of special parts and whatnot to build a robotic spellcaster a while back. Rather than find it on these board, I will link to the page in the Black Vault that has it:


http://wiki.thedeificnmi.com/index.php? ... pellcaster

Daniel Stoker wrote:So we all agree that this should work, but should there be any differences because they're artificial like they have for psionics, or do we go with "Nothing mentioned, then nothing there"?


Daniel Stoker

Whether or not the Art.LF could have psionics or magic would be in the way the ""Racial"" background is set up. Both would require some sort of living or magic component as part of the Art.LF. But that is an after the fact thing made up after the Rolling Powers is done.

I'm not sure you're getting my point Drew (or I misunderstood you there), I was wondering if there should be anything handled differently for them as as caster like with the example they do include in the description for the alien race where they're immune to psionics that aren't physical in nature or since they don't say, just treat them like a 'regular' caster?


Daniel Stoker

I think I failed at my lit roll by just skimming instead of reading.

Daniel Stoker wrote:So we all agree that this should work, but should there be any differences because they're artificial like they have for psionics, or do we go with "Nothing mentioned, then nothing there"?

Daniel Stoker

That's the way I'd run it. It seems to me that if you can have spell-casting rock-people and plant-people, you can have spell-casting robot-people.

Alien characters are basically like normal humans except where specifically stated otherwise (skills, equipment, appearance, environmental adaptations, etc.). This also means that the character would not automatically have typical robot characteristics such as superhuman P.S., immunity to disease, or a nuclear power source. The character will have H.P., P.E., and P.P.E. scores, normal human P.S. (unless native to an abrasive atmosphere), may need to breathe air (unless native to a toxic atmosphere or vacuum), may require sustenance (whether food, sunlight, or ambient P.P.E.; your call), etc.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:

say652 wrote:I could see them having HTH Martial Arts, but that hardly makes them a master. But if they are an alien, they should be limited to the career paths made available to that category, shouldn't they? Why would you let them roll for the standard education?

That is an alien career path; they have their own Military Specialist option, which (a) grants lower bonuses to Military and Espionage skills, and fewer secondary skills, but (b) does allow the HtH of choice and four weapon proficiencies like he was saying.

So a Machine person like from Phase world pages 77-80.

Regularguy wrote:

I could see them having HTH Martial Arts, but that hardly makes them a master. But if they are an alien, they should be limited to the career paths made available to that category, shouldn't they? Why would you let them roll for the standard education?

That is an alien career path; they have their own Military Specialist option, which (a) grants lower bonuses to Military and Espionage skills, and fewer secondary skills, but (b) does allow the HtH of choice and four weapon proficiencies like he was saying.

Of course it requires the house rule that someone other than an ancient master can take H2H Ancient Master...
And the house rule that anyone besides the Hardware: Weapons character can take Sharpshooting...
And the House rule that sharpshooting will only take one skill slot not two...
And the house rule that you don't actually need to take a real WP to take sharpshooting.....

But other than that sure, totally legal

Adventus wrote:So a Machine person like from Phase world pages 77-80.

Besides that they are Rifts "race" and the HU rules about art.LF are not applicable, the MP are sentient AIs as per the MP text. As the MP "race" is written up they cannot use Magic, nor can they use Psionics. And Even though they are a Rifts "race", they can simulate the Machine Merge Major Super power though. They are immune to magic and psionics that bend the minds of living sentients because they are not alive in the mystic sense, even if they are people.

In other words, they are not an example that suports Art.LF using magic or psionics.

Note that I use the word Race in this post because there is no other convenient word to describe a group of self replicating androids.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Razorwing wrote:What if this character was the product of an alien version of Techno-Wizardry... one far more advanced than what is currently known on Rifts Earth (though not necessarily MD)?

The "spells" it learns are merely techno-wizard weaponry and devices within its artificial body (learning new spells means adding new TW features). The Invisibility spell for instance would be a TW cloaking field. See the Invisible... TW optics. Magic Net... a TW restraint for capturing criminals alive. Armor of Ithan could be a personal force armor.

Yes the character learns new spells, but with a techno-magical reasoning behind the development of them. This actually sounds like a rather interesting character now that I think of it... might have to stea... ummm... borrow the idea back.

An android created by techno-magic would have to be a form of living magic or non-corporal being bound in technological body, to be able to gather PPE to fuel the 'powers' it has if the powers are fueled by PPE or are techno-magic items that are a part of it's body. Part of the creation process for living magic would be investing of Perm PPE into the creation. See the living magic and familiar upgrading text in the NB:TtGD gamebook.

Another way for an artificial(ly altered) life form could be made via some form of highly developed life altering magics that makes a new race. (e.g.: Altarans...aka B.W.W.) However, this is closer to the Eugenics power cat. Which would not be a bad route for created such a char.

Other magic created Art.LF would depend on mixing of different schools of magic. (see alchemists)

You are applying current achievements in Techno-Wizardry from societies like Rifts Earth where the practice is still fairly young. At best, Techno-Wizardry on Rifts Earth is 100 to 200 years old. I am talking about a product of techno-wizardry from a species that has been using it as their main "science" for thousands of years. It would be like comparing a stone age axe to one perfectly designed on a computer, forged with exacting precision and honed to a perfect edge with the best technology the last 5000 years of human history has produced.

In otherwords... the rules of Techno-Wizardry you are trying to apply to such a character really don't apply.

The character is a product of Techno-Wizardry, yes... and the new spells he acquires are represented as techno-magical constructs... but don't actually follow the rules of techno-wizardry, but are rather more akin to normal wizardry. In this case, Techno-Wizardry is merely being used as flavor and expression of how this character does what he does... not as the rules by which he exists.

Normal Wizards slowly build their PPE reserves over time through various practices (meditation)... and this character does something similar... though while he is meditating, his body is slowly expanding or adding crystals that absorb and store PPE. Where is he getting the materials to build such crystals internally? Through the food it consumes (which also allows it to repair any damage it takes in a manner similar to how people heal).

Simply put, this alien character will blur the line between what is natural and what is artificial. I merely used Techno-Wizardry as a possible explanation for such a blurring. Is it any less plausible that such an artificial alien being able to mimic any of the hundreds of Super Powers? Psionic powers may take a little more creativity to reasonably explain... but they too should be possible to a society advanced enough to create such a synthetic life form. And that's all the OP was asking for... a plausible explanation of how an artificial life form such as these could use magic, psionics or super powers when artificial life forms are normally limited to robotics and such.

These characters require "Out-of-the-Box" thinking... at least in how to explain their abilities. Functionally (Game Mechanics), they develop like the typical Mystic Studies character... at least as it applies to the Alien power category. Flavor wise... the sky is the limit.