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How much extra damage would the hero with metal bones take from electricity? Double? Triple?

Or would the metal in his bones route the electricity around his organs and to the ground more safely reducing the damage?

Wouldn't there still be internal burning from the metal bones heating up?

Unless something explicitly says you take extra damage then as a matter of course you don't take extra damage. Your GM can make house rules of course. But, for example, Robots and Cyborgs take no extra damage from electricity. Aliens don't have a huge chart based on what your chemical composition is to calculate what you take extra and reduced damage from (hrmmm, your a silicon plant so that's x2 sound but 1/2 from earth and water.....)
In most cases its all just 'special effect' with extra damage or resistance being what is 'cinematically appropriate'

Unless the Canon says. Have to house rule on this one for my games.

SittingBull wrote:Wouldn't there still be internal burning from the metal bones heating up?

It's electrical resistance that causes heating. As the metal bones have less resistance than flesh and normal bones, they would heat less.

Hmmm. Ok. So normal damage at worst then.

No extra damage, the bones aren't going to be making the current flow through the flesh with any kind of increased damaging ability. If anything it might decrease the damage due to the current in following the path of least resistance going directly into the metal bone via the shortest route through the flesh until back out the other location, so the only flesh that would be damaged would be between the entry and exit points. So you'd actually see decreased risk of heart stoppage for example because the current couldn't pass through the heart to interrupt its rhythms (but with metal ribs it'd also make a character needing a defibrillator to restart their heart have possible problems that the shock couldn't reach the heart to restart it due to the bones diverting it away).

This question actually reminds me of a character idea that I had and I think I stated out in another game system but it might be fun to do in HU2nd as well- a mutant with bio-metallic bones and the unusual characteristic that their finger and toe nails were also made of a silver-like bio-metal as well. The character would have EE: Electricity (Or maybe Super EE), Indestructible Bones, and mutant unusual characteristic of feet/hand claws with the rest being flavour text.

It also depends on the type of metal. Not all metal conducts electricity.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:It also depends on the type of metal. Not all metal conducts electricity.

Which metal doesn't?

Actually, one of the main defining features of all metals is their electrical and heat conductivity. That said, some metals make better conduits than others, but the difference between the worst and the best metal conductors is fairly insignificant (has to do with the amount of free electrons in the atomic make-up of the metals themselves).

eliakon wrote:

Stone Gargoyle wrote:It also depends on the type of metal. Not all metal conducts electricity.

Which metal doesn't?

I should have said "conducts it as well". Aluminum and most other metals do not conduct electricity quite as good as copper. Insulators are materials that have just the opposite effect on the flow of electrons. They do not let electrons flow very easily from one atom to another. Insulators are materials whose atoms have tightly bound electrons. There is no metal that does not conduct electricity entirely, but there are some metals that are less effective conductors than others. Metal atoms have electrons in their outer shells that are not tied to any particular atom and can flow freely within the metal when electricity is applied.

Stone Gargoyle wrote:It also depends on the type of metal. Not all metal conducts electricity.

What metal doesn't conduct electricity better than flesh? Considering part of metal's definition is that it is conductive. And though non-metals may have available openings in its valence shell it isn't as ionized as the metals. It is the movement of those free electrons that is what electricity is. Resistance to that movement is... Resistance which occurs more in non metals than metals and creates the heat. Humans on the other hand are made up of the same material most resisters are made of, carbon. Electricity can flow through it but would pick a different route with less resistance, too bad air is a better resistor/insulator.

I would say that having more conductive bones than a normo human would reduce the damage electricity does. Assuming they don't have any relavant powers(energy resistance, conduct lightning or so forth....).

Personally, I would say that any damage reduction that metal bones would give a person would be offset by the simple fact that the electricity first has to reach those bones through a person's flesh before hand. Think of the bones as copper wiring and his organs, muscles and skin as the plastic sheath surrounding it (more muscle and skin than organs, but why quibble). Any electrical attack will have to pass through these first (and last) before it even reaches the skeleton.

Besides... metal skeletons are too rare to worry about this issue coming up often.

Razorwing wrote:Personally, I would say that any damage reduction that metal bones would give a person would be offset by the simple fact that the electricity first has to reach those bones through a person's flesh before hand. Think of the bones as copper wiring and his organs, muscles and skin as the plastic sheath surrounding it (more muscle and skin than organs, but why quibble). Any electrical attack will have to pass through these first (and last) before it even reaches the skeleton.

Besides... metal skeletons are too rare to worry about this issue coming up often.

Still SEVERELY reduced. I had an electronics professor who had served in the army as a groundrat and when he went to trouble shoot a bad radio he stepped up to it reache over to the back and received to wounds a pinpoint on his hand and one on his belly by his belt buckle... And he received his nickname sparkey. A person with the bones will receive an entry and an exit wound that are about an electron wide plus a burn around the area. Instead of being disbursed throughout the body it would be EXTREMELY localized. Maybe the dud should consider getting wires implanted so his meat doesn't get damaged.

While the lower resistance with metal could result in lower damage the fact is it still has to pass through the flesh to get to the metal. I would say it washes out in the end and does the same damage, but removes the chance that the electrcity would pass though internal organs.

tuvermage wrote:While the lower resistance with metal could result in lower damage the fact is it still has to pass through the flesh to get to the metal. I would say it washes out in the end and does the same damage, but removes the chance that the electricity would pass though internal organs.

The majority of damage from electrical shock is burns and the electrical interference, since we run on electricity. The metal bones would eliminate most of both damage sources less resistance produces less heat. Going from the point of contact into the bones and out to ground only creates two points and very small areas to damage. I'd argue that even in Rifts MDC lightning wouldn't do MD to a superhero with metal bones with the heat and shock redirected.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

tuvermage wrote:While the lower resistance with metal could result in lower damage the fact is it still has to pass through the flesh to get to the metal. I would say it washes out in the end and does the same damage, but removes the chance that the electricity would pass though internal organs.

The majority of damage from electrical shock is burns and the electrical interference, since we run on electricity. The metal bones would eliminate most of both damage sources less resistance produces less heat. Going from the point of contact into the bones and out to ground only creates two points and very small areas to damage. I'd argue that even in Rifts MDC lightning wouldn't do MD to a superhero with metal bones with the heat and shock redirected.

And what of the body's own bio-electrical current? As you've said, Electricity is bound to take the path of least resistance, yes? So what is to prevent the body's own bio-electrical current from doing the same thing?

More to the point... exactly which powers provide these "Metal Bones"?

I only can find a specific reference in the PU2 Super Soldier section Endoskeletal Replacement. The minor power Indestructible Bones doesn't actually say that the bones are made of metal... merely that they can't be broken. A Bionics character... and possibly a Secret Operative might get something similar... but for the most part, Metal Bones are not going to be that common.

I treat unbreakable bones, the power, as of a rare metal.

Which is fair... but the power doesn't actually state that is the case.

True.

Razorwing wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

tuvermage wrote:While the lower resistance with metal could result in lower damage the fact is it still has to pass through the flesh to get to the metal. I would say it washes out in the end and does the same damage, but removes the chance that the electricity would pass though internal organs.

The majority of damage from electrical shock is burns and the electrical interference, since we run on electricity. The metal bones would eliminate most of both damage sources less resistance produces less heat. Going from the point of contact into the bones and out to ground only creates two points and very small areas to damage. I'd argue that even in Rifts MDC lightning wouldn't do MD to a superhero with metal bones with the heat and shock redirected.

And what of the body's own bio-electrical current? As you've said, Electricity is bound to take the path of least resistance, yes? So what is to prevent the body's own bio-electrical current from doing the same thing?

That is an excellent point no one considers...

SittingBull wrote:I treat unbreakable bones, the power, as of a rare metal.

Why? By HU standards MD dragon bones would be unbreakable (seeing as how unbreakable enchanted blades just have a higher MDC in rifts). So most certainly isn't canon that they are metal just unbreakable and the reason for being so is up to the GM and shouldn't necessarily be fixed, as one character concept may call for it to be something else... buy as the GM as you have stated it is metal in your game but that would by definition be a house rule.

Razorwing wrote:More to the point... exactly which powers provide these "Metal Bones"?

I only can find a specific reference in the PU2 Super Soldier section Endoskeletal Replacement. The minor power Indestructible Bones doesn't actually say that the bones are made of metal... merely that they can't be broken. A Bionics character... and possibly a Secret Operative might get something similar... but for the most part, Metal Bones are not going to be that common.

Skeletal Plating in PU2 under Super Soldier enhancements specifically states metal bones as well, although it doesn't mention how much weight this should add to a character's normal weight.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Razorwing wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

tuvermage wrote:While the lower resistance with metal could result in lower damage the fact is it still has to pass through the flesh to get to the metal. I would say it washes out in the end and does the same damage, but removes the chance that the electricity would pass though internal organs.

The majority of damage from electrical shock is burns and the electrical interference, since we run on electricity. The metal bones would eliminate most of both damage sources less resistance produces less heat. Going from the point of contact into the bones and out to ground only creates two points and very small areas to damage. I'd argue that even in Rifts MDC lightning wouldn't do MD to a superhero with metal bones with the heat and shock redirected.

And what of the body's own bio-electrical current? As you've said, Electricity is bound to take the path of least resistance, yes? So what is to prevent the body's own bio-electrical current from doing the same thing?

That is an excellent point no one considers...

Because growing up, before even Palladium, unbreakable bones were metal.

Razorwing wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

tuvermage wrote:While the lower resistance with metal could result in lower damage the fact is it still has to pass through the flesh to get to the metal. I would say it washes out in the end and does the same damage, but removes the chance that the electricity would pass though internal organs.

The majority of damage from electrical shock is burns and the electrical interference, since we run on electricity. The metal bones would eliminate most of both damage sources less resistance produces less heat. Going from the point of contact into the bones and out to ground only creates two points and very small areas to damage. I'd argue that even in Rifts MDC lightning wouldn't do MD to a superhero with metal bones with the heat and shock redirected.

And what of the body's own bio-electrical current? As you've said, Electricity is bound to take the path of least resistance, yes? So what is to prevent the body's own bio-electrical current from doing the same thing?

Because the connections for the body's nervous system don't work like that, they have specific lines of travel that aren't going to suddenly go racing to some piece of metal in the body otherwise you couldn't get a shot without the needle causing you problems from grounding things out.

SittingBull wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Razorwing wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

tuvermage wrote:While the lower resistance with metal could result in lower damage the fact is it still has to pass through the flesh to get to the metal. I would say it washes out in the end and does the same damage, but removes the chance that the electricity would pass though internal organs.

The majority of damage from electrical shock is burns and the electrical interference, since we run on electricity. The metal bones would eliminate most of both damage sources less resistance produces less heat. Going from the point of contact into the bones and out to ground only creates two points and very small areas to damage. I'd argue that even in Rifts MDC lightning wouldn't do MD to a superhero with metal bones with the heat and shock redirected.

And what of the body's own bio-electrical current? As you've said, Electricity is bound to take the path of least resistance, yes? So what is to prevent the body's own bio-electrical current from doing the same thing?

That is an excellent point no one considers...

Because growing up, before even Palladium, unbreakable bones were metal.

Well I guess if we are copying a certain other hero....
I don't think that way though (probably because when I think of unbreakable bones I think of actual bones....and of course because the No Conversions Policy doesn't like trying to figure out how to replicate certain other peoples iconic abilities in game)

eliakon wrote:Well I guess if we are copying a certain other hero....
I don't think that way though (probably because when I think of unbreakable bones I think of actual bones....and of course because the No Conversions Policy doesn't like trying to figure out how to replicate certain other peoples iconic abilities in game)

I remember a sci-fi novel that I believe predates said hero where the protagonist also had not only a metallic skeleton but a healing factor and enhanced sense of vision (he could actually look at a target, zoom a la telescopic vision, and hit the target unerringly, the only time he failed to hit his target in a contest was because his opponent's dagger was too close to the center and he ricocheted off of it).

SittingBull wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Razorwing wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

tuvermage wrote:While the lower resistance with metal could result in lower damage the fact is it still has to pass through the flesh to get to the metal. I would say it washes out in the end and does the same damage, but removes the chance that the electricity would pass though internal organs.

The majority of damage from electrical shock is burns and the electrical interference, since we run on electricity. The metal bones would eliminate most of both damage sources less resistance produces less heat. Going from the point of contact into the bones and out to ground only creates two points and very small areas to damage. I'd argue that even in Rifts MDC lightning wouldn't do MD to a superhero with metal bones with the heat and shock redirected.

And what of the body's own bio-electrical current? As you've said, Electricity is bound to take the path of least resistance, yes? So what is to prevent the body's own bio-electrical current from doing the same thing?

That is an excellent point no one considers...

Because growing up, before even Palladium, unbreakable bones were metal.

Superman's are Metal? Galactis, Reed Richards, Doomsday? I can name more with unbreakable bones that aren't metal than I can with bones coated in unbreakable metal.

I was thinking of the one hero who's bones were replaced with unbreakable metal.

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Superman's are Metal? Galactis, Reed Richards, Doomsday? I can name more with unbreakable bones that aren't metal than I can with bones coated in unbreakable metal.

Post-Crisis Superman had a few broken bones I believe (although rare) and Galactus is a being of pure Energy- he has no bones, but I see what you're getting at.

However, no all entities with unbreakable bones specifically have unbreakable bones as their super ability. For most it is a side effect of their other abilities. I believe the poster was specifically referring to those who had unbreakable bones because they had unbreakable bones, not as a part of another power or ability.

fbdaury wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Superman's are Metal? Galactis, Reed Richards, Doomsday? I can name more with unbreakable bones that aren't metal than I can with bones coated in unbreakable metal.

Post-Crisis Superman had a few broken bones I believe (although rare) and Galactus is a being of pure Energy- he has no bones, but I see what you're getting at.

And wolverines are "breakable" Adamantium is not the perfect metal depending on which marvel dimension your talking about. In Cinematic, apparently it can be undone by cutting with a red hot (shouldn't they have done white?) adamantium blade. In Ultimate, Vibranium is the best metal and adamantium was invented in an attempt to duplicate its qualities. I only remember classic saying it was unbreakable and had vibraneum as an entirely different metal and adamantium was a naturally occurring metal found in the Black Panthers territory... or was that vibranium and it didn't have an alien source. I forget, but my point is not even that which is listed in Marvel is unbreakable, just very hard to break, OR compared to the strongest common use metal is unbreakable.

Jefffar wrote:However, no all entities with unbreakable bones specifically have unbreakable bones as their super ability. For most it is a side effect of their other abilities. I believe the poster was specifically referring to those who had unbreakable bones because they had unbreakable bones, not as a part of another power or ability.

But even the source materials refer to Wolvies bond or rather Adamantium as nearly unbreakable. (I haven't been able to find a list comparing the differences of adamantium in the different realities:( )

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Jefffar wrote:However, no all entities with unbreakable bones specifically have unbreakable bones as their super ability. For most it is a side effect of their other abilities. I believe the poster was specifically referring to those who had unbreakable bones because they had unbreakable bones, not as a part of another power or ability.

But even the source materials refer to Wolvies bond or rather Adamantium as nearly unbreakable. (I haven't been able to find a list comparing the differences of adamantium in the different realities:( )

In general when it comes to durability the unnamed alloy that makes up Cap's shield is at the top, and probably alongside the also unnamed metal that makes up the Destroyer (although given it's heavily enchanted with a portion of the head god's power from at least a dozen pantheons it might in its unenchanted state be 'only' as indestructible as Uru), then Adamantine, True Adamantium, and Uru would roughly be next, followed by Secondary Adamantium with Vibranium being at the bottom by a good ways as the only place it's really indestructible is in the movieverse. In the comic continuities Vibranium comes in two varieties, the 'standard' stuff primarily found in Wakanda (another large mound of it was destroyed by villains in a 'if we can't have it you can't either' deal) which absorbs kinetic energy and sound and the Antarctic version found in the Savage Land that's also called 'anti-metal' because it generates a field that causes metals to basically melt when exposed to it. The Antarctic version eventually degrades into Wakandan Vibranium and you can through some process turn Wakandan vibranium into Antarctic Vibranium.

Haven't seen much of the Ultimates verse but from what I've heard it's inferior to True Adamantium but probably superior to Secondary Adamantium, and also hard to say where X-verse Adamantium rates compared to the comics, but probably inferior to True Adamantium but not enough for it to really matter as the movies you never see anything outside of Magneto that could damage even Secondary Adamantium let alone the True Adamantium.

Also only in the animated Ultimates universe is Cap's shield made of a blend of Adamantium and Vibranium, in no other continuity is it a mix of the two as Adamantium was the result of the failed effort to reverse-engineer Cap's shield and reproduce the material that it's composed of. It cannot be made of something that only existed from failing to recreate it.

Nightmask wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Jefffar wrote:However, no all entities with unbreakable bones specifically have unbreakable bones as their super ability. For most it is a side effect of their other abilities. I believe the poster was specifically referring to those who had unbreakable bones because they had unbreakable bones, not as a part of another power or ability.

But even the source materials refer to Wolvies bond or rather Adamantium as nearly unbreakable. (I haven't been able to find a list comparing the differences of adamantium in the different realities:( )

In general when it comes to durability the unnamed alloy that makes up Cap's shield is at the top, and probably alongside the also unnamed metal that makes up the Destroyer (although given it's heavily enchanted with a portion of the head god's power from at least a dozen pantheons it might in its unenchanted state be 'only' as indestructible as Uru), then Adamantine, True Adamantium, and Uru would roughly be next, followed by Secondary Adamantium with Vibranium being at the bottom by a good ways as the only place it's really indestructible is in the movieverse. In the comic continuities Vibranium comes in two varieties, the 'standard' stuff primarily found in Wakanda (another large mound of it was destroyed by villains in a 'if we can't have it you can't either' deal) which absorbs kinetic energy and sound and the Antarctic version found in the Savage Land that's also called 'anti-metal' because it generates a field that causes metals to basically melt when exposed to it. The Antarctic version eventually degrades into Wakandan Vibranium and you can through some process turn Wakandan vibranium into Antarctic Vibranium.

Haven't seen much of the Ultimates verse but from what I've heard it's inferior to True Adamantium but probably superior to Secondary Adamantium, and also hard to say where X-verse Adamantium rates compared to the comics, but probably inferior to True Adamantium but not enough for it to really matter as the movies you never see anything outside of Magneto that could damage even Secondary Adamantium let alone the True Adamantium.

Also only in the animated Ultimates universe is Cap's shield made of a blend of Adamantium and Vibranium, in no other continuity is it a mix of the two as Adamantium was the result of the failed effort to reverse-engineer Cap's shield and reproduce the material that it's composed of. It cannot be made of something that only existed from failing to recreate it.

Soooooo
They are all various isotopes of Plotonium basically.....

eliakon wrote:

Nightmask wrote:In general when it comes to durability the unnamed alloy that makes up Cap's shield is at the top, and probably alongside the also unnamed metal that makes up the Destroyer (although given it's heavily enchanted with a portion of the head god's power from at least a dozen pantheons it might in its unenchanted state be 'only' as indestructible as Uru), then Adamantine, True Adamantium, and Uru would roughly be next, followed by Secondary Adamantium with Vibranium being at the bottom by a good ways as the only place it's really indestructible is in the movieverse. In the comic continuities Vibranium comes in two varieties, the 'standard' stuff primarily found in Wakanda (another large mound of it was destroyed by villains in a 'if we can't have it you can't either' deal) which absorbs kinetic energy and sound and the Antarctic version found in the Savage Land that's also called 'anti-metal' because it generates a field that causes metals to basically melt when exposed to it. The Antarctic version eventually degrades into Wakandan Vibranium and you can through some process turn Wakandan vibranium into Antarctic Vibranium.

Haven't seen much of the Ultimates verse but from what I've heard it's inferior to True Adamantium but probably superior to Secondary Adamantium, and also hard to say where X-verse Adamantium rates compared to the comics, but probably inferior to True Adamantium but not enough for it to really matter as the movies you never see anything outside of Magneto that could damage even Secondary Adamantium let alone the True Adamantium.

Also only in the animated Ultimates universe is Cap's shield made of a blend of Adamantium and Vibranium, in no other continuity is it a mix of the two as Adamantium was the result of the failed effort to reverse-engineer Cap's shield and reproduce the material that it's composed of. It cannot be made of something that only existed from failing to recreate it.

Soooooo
They are all various isotopes of Plotonium basically.....

Well that's true for all fictional materials. Also due to the growing trend of having a villain break Cap's shield to show how big a threat they are (i.e. The Worf Effect trope) it gives the false appearance that Cap's shield is inferior to True Adamantium because you only see it in use where none of the heroes or villains involved have the powers or tech to affect it (outside of things like the classic event where Magneto used his powers to draw the Adamantium out of Wolverine's body). So Ultron given his long-standing use of True Adamantium in his shell gives the false appearance of being more durable because he's never fighting anyone that can harm his shell unlike Cap who from frequently fighting Cosmic threats goes up more often against beings that have the power to damage even his otherwise unbreakable shield. For Ultron they have to resort to things like the Scarlet Witch's ability to manipulate probabilities since Adamantium isn't protected against such things or Antarctic Vibranium to melt his shell and internals (Human Torch once beat him on Battleworld by ramping his heat so high that while the shell didn't melt the heat that was transmitted inside melted his internals).

Nightmask wrote:

eliakon wrote:

Nightmask wrote:In general when it comes to durability the unnamed alloy that makes up Cap's shield is at the top, and probably alongside the also unnamed metal that makes up the Destroyer (although given it's heavily enchanted with a portion of the head god's power from at least a dozen pantheons it might in its unenchanted state be 'only' as indestructible as Uru), then Adamantine, True Adamantium, and Uru would roughly be next, followed by Secondary Adamantium with Vibranium being at the bottom by a good ways as the only place it's really indestructible is in the movieverse. In the comic continuities Vibranium comes in two varieties, the 'standard' stuff primarily found in Wakanda (another large mound of it was destroyed by villains in a 'if we can't have it you can't either' deal) which absorbs kinetic energy and sound and the Antarctic version found in the Savage Land that's also called 'anti-metal' because it generates a field that causes metals to basically melt when exposed to it. The Antarctic version eventually degrades into Wakandan Vibranium and you can through some process turn Wakandan vibranium into Antarctic Vibranium.

Haven't seen much of the Ultimates verse but from what I've heard it's inferior to True Adamantium but probably superior to Secondary Adamantium, and also hard to say where X-verse Adamantium rates compared to the comics, but probably inferior to True Adamantium but not enough for it to really matter as the movies you never see anything outside of Magneto that could damage even Secondary Adamantium let alone the True Adamantium.

Also only in the animated Ultimates universe is Cap's shield made of a blend of Adamantium and Vibranium, in no other continuity is it a mix of the two as Adamantium was the result of the failed effort to reverse-engineer Cap's shield and reproduce the material that it's composed of. It cannot be made of something that only existed from failing to recreate it.

Soooooo
They are all various isotopes of Plotonium basically.....

Well that's true for all fictional materials. Also due to the growing trend of having a villain break Cap's shield to show how big a threat they are (i.e. The Worf Effect trope) it gives the false appearance that Cap's shield is inferior to True Adamantium because you only see it in use where none of the heroes or villains involved have the powers or tech to affect it (outside of things like the classic event where Magneto used his powers to draw the Adamantium out of Wolverine's body). So Ultron given his long-standing use of True Adamantium in his shell gives the false appearance of being more durable because he's never fighting anyone that can harm his shell unlike Cap who from frequently fighting Cosmic threats goes up more often against beings that have the power to damage even his otherwise unbreakable shield. For Ultron they have to resort to things like the Scarlet Witch's ability to manipulate probabilities since Adamantium isn't protected against such things or Antarctic Vibranium to melt his shell and internals (Human Torch once beat him on Battleworld by ramping his heat so high that while the shell didn't melt the heat that was transmitted inside melted his internals).

Ok 'nearly' unbreakable.

Nightmask wrote:In general when it comes to durability the unnamed alloy that makes up Cap's shield is at the top, and probably alongside the also unnamed metal that makes up the Destroyer (although given it's heavily enchanted with a portion of the head god's power from at least a dozen pantheons it might in its unenchanted state be 'only' as indestructible as Uru), then Adamantine, True Adamantium, and Uru would roughly be next, followed by Secondary Adamantium with Vibranium being at the bottom by a good ways as the only place it's really indestructible is in the movieverse. In the comic continuities Vibranium comes in two varieties, the 'standard' stuff primarily found in Wakanda (another large mound of it was destroyed by villains in a 'if we can't have it you can't either' deal) which absorbs kinetic energy and sound and the Antarctic version found in the Savage Land that's also called 'anti-metal' because it generates a field that causes metals to basically melt when exposed to it. The Antarctic version eventually degrades into Wakandan Vibranium and you can through some process turn Wakandan vibranium into Antarctic Vibranium.

Haven't seen much of the Ultimates verse but from what I've heard it's inferior to True Adamantium but probably superior to Secondary Adamantium, and also hard to say where X-verse Adamantium rates compared to the comics, but probably inferior to True Adamantium but not enough for it to really matter as the movies you never see anything outside of Magneto that could damage even Secondary Adamantium let alone the True Adamantium.

Also only in the animated Ultimates universe is Cap's shield made of a blend of Adamantium and Vibranium, in no other continuity is it a mix of the two as Adamantium was the result of the failed effort to reverse-engineer Cap's shield and reproduce the material that it's composed of. It cannot be made of something that only existed from failing to recreate it.

Originally in the 616 verse Cap's shield was an alloy of steel and vibranium- it was later retconned to be an Adamantium/Vibranium alloy, which makes it all but indestructible. True Adamantium is unbreakable generally by all but cosmic powers or gods (some) while Wakandan ibranium not only absorbs vibration/sonics/kinetic energy but also uses that energy to increase it's own strength somewhat- this is why the combo in Cap's shield is pretty much unbreakable by all (was once shattered by Dr. Doom possessing the power of the Beyonder before that being was retconned into just being a 'hatched' cosmic cube and was also once dented by a haymaker strike by Mjolinir wielded by a Thor imbued with the full power of the All-Father [had Odin's full might]). Uru, as a magical Asgardian metal (stone?) is pretty much indestructible as well, then True Adamantium, Secondary Adamantium, Wakandan Vibranium, and then normal metals (also Osmium fits in there somewhere but I am not sure where). As mentioned, Antarctic Vibranium is an anti-metal and one of only two ways known to break down True Adamantium (the other being molecular re-arrangement). PS: Wakandan Vibranium also has mystic properties that the Wakandans long ago stopped 'officially' researching for fear of losing control of it- Dr. Doom took advantage of this fact during the Doom War event to mystically link all refined Vibranium together as a magical powersource until Black Panther neutralized ALL refined but unprocessed Vibranium on Earth, vastly reducing the remaining amount of the metal and dealing a majot economic blow to his own country.

In the Marvel Cinemaverse, Vibranium is the Hardest known metal, although not necessarily indestructible while in Fox's Marvel movies they have Adamantium to fill that role.

in Ultimates universe, Adamantium is acknowledged as the hardest known metal but I don't think it's considered completely indestructible- Cap's shield is made of pure Adamantium I believe. Not sure if, or how, Vibranium plays into the Ultimates universe.

fbdaury wrote:

Nightmask wrote:In general when it comes to durability the unnamed alloy that makes up Cap's shield is at the top, and probably alongside the also unnamed metal that makes up the Destroyer (although given it's heavily enchanted with a portion of the head god's power from at least a dozen pantheons it might in its unenchanted state be 'only' as indestructible as Uru), then Adamantine, True Adamantium, and Uru would roughly be next, followed by Secondary Adamantium with Vibranium being at the bottom by a good ways as the only place it's really indestructible is in the movieverse. In the comic continuities Vibranium comes in two varieties, the 'standard' stuff primarily found in Wakanda (another large mound of it was destroyed by villains in a 'if we can't have it you can't either' deal) which absorbs kinetic energy and sound and the Antarctic version found in the Savage Land that's also called 'anti-metal' because it generates a field that causes metals to basically melt when exposed to it. The Antarctic version eventually degrades into Wakandan Vibranium and you can through some process turn Wakandan vibranium into Antarctic Vibranium.

Haven't seen much of the Ultimates verse but from what I've heard it's inferior to True Adamantium but probably superior to Secondary Adamantium, and also hard to say where X-verse Adamantium rates compared to the comics, but probably inferior to True Adamantium but not enough for it to really matter as the movies you never see anything outside of Magneto that could damage even Secondary Adamantium let alone the True Adamantium.

Also only in the animated Ultimates universe is Cap's shield made of a blend of Adamantium and Vibranium, in no other continuity is it a mix of the two as Adamantium was the result of the failed effort to reverse-engineer Cap's shield and reproduce the material that it's composed of. It cannot be made of something that only existed from failing to recreate it.

Originally in the 616 verse Cap's shield was an alloy of steel and vibranium- it was later retconned to be an Adamantium/Vibranium alloy, which makes it all but indestructible. True Adamantium is unbreakable generally by all but cosmic powers or gods (some) while Wakandan ibranium not only absorbs vibration/sonics/kinetic energy but also uses that energy to increase it's own strength somewhat- this is why the combo in Cap's shield is pretty much unbreakable by all (was once shattered by Dr. Doom possessing the power of the Beyonder before that being was retconned into just being a 'hatched' cosmic cube and was also once dented by a haymaker strike by Mjolinir wielded by a Thor imbued with the full power of the All-Father [had Odin's full might]). Uru, as a magical Asgardian metal (stone?) is pretty much indestructible as well, then True Adamantium, Secondary Adamantium, Wakandan Vibranium, and then normal metals (also Osmium fits in there somewhere but I am not sure where). As mentioned, Antarctic Vibranium is an anti-metal and one of only two ways known to break down True Adamantium (the other being molecular re-arrangement). PS: Wakandan Vibranium also has mystic properties that the Wakandans long ago stopped 'officially' researching for fear of losing control of it- Dr. Doom took advantage of this fact during the Doom War event to mystically link all refined Vibranium together as a magical powersource until Black Panther neutralized ALL refined but unprocessed Vibranium on Earth, vastly reducing the remaining amount of the metal and dealing a majot economic blow to his own country.

In the Marvel Cinemaverse, Vibranium is the Hardest known metal, although not necessarily indestructible while in Fox's Marvel movies they have Adamantium to fill that role.

in Ultimates universe, Adamantium is acknowledged as the hardest known metal but I don't think it's considered completely indestructible- Cap's shield is made of pure Adamantium I believe. Not sure if, or how, Vibranium plays into the Ultimates universe.

Cap's shield was never retconned into being an Adamantium/Vibranium mix, that was purely a result of an error on the part of someone that kept being cut-and-paste repeated by people long after they should have fixed the problem and people should have stopped repeating it. The shield CAN'T contain Adamantium, that was developed long AFTER the shield was made, it can't contain something that existed long after it was made and if the US already had True Adamantium to put into the shield the shield would have never been made in the first place since that alloy was created purely as a result of trying to develop a more durable metal for armor in the war effort. True Adamantium is already so durable they'd have no need to try and develop something even more durable when they already had what they wanted because even the secret Nazi super-weapons couldn't scratch True Adamantium. What makes it so indestructible is how the Vibranium and unknown iron alloy interact at a molecular level due to the unknown x-factor that allowed them to mix properly not because it contains Adamantium because it doesn't. ONLY the animated Ultimates Movieverse does Cap's shield have a blend of Adamantium and Vibranium and was created by SHIELD (so presumably they can in fact replicate it).

Oddball question here, is Mithril mentioned in Marvel at all?


Daniel Stoker

Daniel Stoker wrote:Oddball question here, is Mithril mentioned in Marvel at all?
Daniel Stoker

No, I don't believe so.

Daniel Stoker wrote:Oddball question here, is Mithril mentioned in Marvel at all?


Daniel Stoker

No Mithril, probably to avoid problems with TSR/WOTC and not being part of the general mythologies they've worked with.

Nightmask wrote:

Daniel Stoker wrote:Oddball question here, is Mithril mentioned in Marvel at all?


Daniel Stoker

No Mithril, probably to avoid problems with TSR/WOTC and not being part of the general mythologies they've worked with.

TSR/WotC can't do anything about it. Mithril originates from JRR Tolkien NOT D&D.

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Daniel Stoker wrote:Oddball question here, is Mithril mentioned in Marvel at all?


Daniel Stoker

No Mithril, probably to avoid problems with TSR/WOTC and not being part of the general mythologies they've worked with.

TSR/WotC can't do anything about it. Mithril originates from JRR Tolkien NOT D&D.

Well I did say probably, aren't there legal concerns with Tolkien's estate as well?

Nightmask wrote:

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Daniel Stoker wrote:Oddball question here, is Mithril mentioned in Marvel at all?


Daniel Stoker

No Mithril, probably to avoid problems with TSR/WOTC and not being part of the general mythologies they've worked with.

TSR/WotC can't do anything about it. Mithril originates from JRR Tolkien NOT D&D.

Well I did say probably, aren't there legal concerns with Tolkien's estate as well?

No, the term 'Mithril' has pretty firmly entered the public domain (there is a reason that it is used all the time in video games for instance)

The main reason for someone not to use it is for that very reason. Marvel can trademark Vibranium but if they use Mithril its no different than if they use Titanium.

eliakon wrote:

Nightmask wrote:Well I did say probably, aren't there legal concerns with Tolkien's estate as well?

No, the term 'Mithril' has pretty firmly entered the public domain (there is a reason that it is used all the time in video games for instance)

The main reason for someone not to use it is for that very reason. Marvel can trademark Vibranium but if they use Mithril its no different than if they use Titanium.

Good point, where possible entertainment like comic books favors stuff it can copyright and trademark to profit off of it rather than use stuff that's in common use.