Forums of the Megaverse®

Mack wrote:Kinda curious what level the two mages are since they had 500 PPE between them. (Or did that include each mage over-charging themselves with the ley line?)

Also curious if they used the "freely given PPE" rule which is only 70% efficient.

Glistam wrote:I love this. That's about how our games went when I played a Temporal Wizard and we had a Shifter in the group, too. What's missing though is the time spent doing all the math that they just casually talk about.

flatline wrote:I had 1st level in mind, but I do not have these characters actually speced out.

Mack wrote:

flatline wrote:I had 1st level in mind, but I do not have these characters actually speced out.

A level 1 character had:
-- Level 11: Create Magic Scroll
-- Level 13: Talisman
-- Level 15: Enchant Weapon



I think your game table is a bit different than any one I've sat at. (I know Temporal Wizards are allowed to chose spells from any level, but I've never seen a GM give that much latitude.)

Mack wrote:

flatline wrote:I had 1st level in mind, but I do not have these characters actually speced out.

A level 1 character had:
-- Level 11: Create Magic Scroll
-- Level 13: Talisman
-- Level 15: Enchant Weapon



I think your game table is a bit different than any one I've sat at. (I know Temporal Wizards are allowed to chose spells from any level, but I've never seen a GM give that much latitude.)

flatline wrote:

Mack wrote:

flatline wrote:I had 1st level in mind, but I do not have these characters actually speced out.

A level 1 character had:
-- Level 11: Create Magic Scroll
-- Level 13: Talisman
-- Level 15: Enchant Weapon



I think your game table is a bit different than any one I've sat at. (I know Temporal Wizards are allowed to chose spells from any level, but I've never seen a GM give that much latitude.)

I figure in a game where folks routinely start with multi-million-credit equipment, there's no reason why a magic user shouldn't be able to start with a similarly valuable spell list. The GMs I've played with have always had a similar view. It saddens me to think that not every player has had as charmed an existence as I have.

--flatline

Killer Cyborg wrote:I suppose that "years-long training in warping reality to conform to your will" has little material value?

Alrik Vas wrote:I want to read this conversation in character, using terms in the setting.

flatline wrote:

Alrik Vas wrote:I want to read this conversation in character, using terms in the setting.

Well, magic users must be keenly aware of how much PPE they have, how much each spell costs, and how quickly it can be replenished from a ley line, so that part of the conversation probably wouldn't have been much different.

The open question is how aware characters are of how much damage particular weapons do. It might not have been obvious to the characters that an enchanted katana would be more damaging than the flaming sword, for example. Even so, I expect the Mystic Knight would have been interested in the proposal anyways, so the conversation might not have changed much in that regard, either.

--flatline

Upon arriving at the agreed upon rendezvous point the party of three companions discovered they still had about an hour before the caravan they intend to meet arrived. As they pondered what to do, the two mages could feel the comforting feeling of magical power emanating from a nearby ley-line and suffusing the area with its power.

"Can you feel that?" The Mystic Knight asked, sitting down and laying back against a tree. "The energy from the ley-line can reach us here. I think I'll take this opportunity to just bask in it and soak it up."

The 'Borg just grunted and shrugged in response. She couldn't care any less about all this mystic mumbo-jumbo and went about her own business, making sure the area they were waiting at was safe. The Temporal Wizard, however, suddenly grinned with an idea.

"Tell me again about your melee weapons," The Temporal Wizard directed to the Mystic Knight.

Lazily, eyes half-closed, she replied "I have a flaming sword - you know, the Techno-Wizard kind that will cut through modern armor. I also carry a katana sword but it would be little use against high tech or supernatural threats. I carry it because I like it for the intimidation value against other mortals." She closed her eyes and grinned at the thoughts that went through her mind. They went way beyond intimidation with the weapon.

The Temporal Wizard nodded, as if this was the answer she expected. "What if I told you I could make you a magical scroll which would let you enchant that katana you like so much so that it would be useful against supernatural or technological enemies? Or, another melee weapon - it wouldn't have to be the katana."

"I would ask, 'What's in it for you?'"

"That would be my payment to you for helping me make some magical talismen to store magical energy. Using that scroll could drain your magical reserves, though, but I think we could convince our 'Borg friend to read the scroll. It's not like she cares about her magical reserves anyway."

The Mystic Knight thought about this. "So I help you make these talismen... batteries for you and in return, you'll make me this scroll?"

"Yes, that's right." The Temporal Wizard smiled and waited for her response. She tried not to show it, but she needed her help. This wasn't something she could do alone and she didn't know when she'd get another opportunity like this. Se resisted the urge to nervously tap her foot. Time was precious if they were to do this before the caravan arrived but if she let on how much this meant to her, who knew how much more the Mystic Knight would demand in payment?

"Okay, Sounds good to me," the Mystic Knight finally responded. She jumped up onto her feet and walked over to the Temporal Wizard. "Where do we start?"

The Temporal Wizard went to work setting out the objects she intended to enchant, including a blank piece of paper for the scroll. "Just keep drawing in that magical energy. Hold as much as you can. Once you don't think you can hold anymore let me know, and I'll combine that energy with my own to enchant the talismen."

"Fine. It should only take a couple of minutes. I can do that pretty fast."

The Temporal Wizard and the Mystic Knight both began to meditate, drawing in energy. The Temporal Wizard also used an otherdimensional psychic device that allowed her to almost match the speed with which the Mystic Knight could take the energy naturally. The 'Borg just rolled her eyes at her two companions as she finished her perimeter survey. Once she was satisfied they were safe for the time being she loaded up an old pre-Rifts novel onto her H.U.D. and continued from where she left off. In no time at all she was back in a world fifty shades greyer and easily able to ignore the two mages and their blathering.

The Techno Wizard and the Mystic Knight worked like they were on an assembly line. It took about fifty minutes for the pair of them to enchant the talismen, fill the talismen with energy, make the scroll, and re-fill the talismen. The Temporal Wizard looked at the finished talismen and scroll and smiled, pleased at the results. She began to pick up and put away these talismen in a specially prepared dimensional pocket.

The Mystic Knight would never admit it but she was a bit impressed. These were seriously powerful spells the Temporal Wizard was casually throwing around here. She made a mental note of these capabilities the Wizard had shown. They were allies for now, but who knew what the future held? Off in the distance she could just start to make out the caravan they were waiting for. They were still about ten minutes away.

The Mystic Knight picked up her scroll, rolled it up and walked over to the seemingly still 'Borg. She knew the 'Borg did that sometimes - just stood there as if powered down or something. She didn't know why, and didn't really care. She tapped her on the shoulder with the rolled up parchment and said, "Read this scroll for me."

The 'Borg sighed inwardly and bookmarked her place in the book. As she saved the file she took note of the caravan off in the distance, zooming in and checking that nothing appeared amiss with them. Satisfied, she turned to the Mystic Knight. "What? What do I get out of it?"

The Mystic Knight tapped the rolled-up parchment against one of the 'Borg's holstered weapons. "I charge your e-clips. You owe me."

"Oh yeah, sure," The 'Borg replied. She didn't really care. Something was said earlier about losing magical energy? She played back through the saved video log of the conversations they had and found that part. This will make me lose magical energy? She thought. Good riddance. She read the scroll out loud while the Mystic Knight pulled out her katana and held it in front of the 'Borg, as if presenting it to her. When the 'Borg finished reading the scroll the katana glowed briefly, to the Mystic Knight's delight. The 'Borg however suddenly felt... exhausted... in a way she hadn't felt for a very long time. Her bio-comp registered no physical issues, and the feeling lessened to a dull, lingering fatigue that remained with her. The 'Borg suddenly regretted being party to their magical madness. "I don't think I can ever do this again for you. I don't care how much I owe you." The Mystic Knight just shrugged, entranced with her new toy.

The Temporal Wizard looked off in the distance and noticed the caravan for the first time. She asked her companions, "Do you think we still have a couple of minutes before the caravan arrives?"

The 'Borg looked back at the caravan and ran some numbers in her internal calculator. "At least," she replied.

"Okay," the Temporal Wizard said. She began looking around for a somewhat hidden area. She found what she was looking for a little ways away, down a hill: a small, obscured area between two large rocks. "Perfect," she said to no-one in particular as she went over there. In front of the rocks she began to gather the energy from the ley-line to use in casting the spell Dimensional Envelope. Upon its completion a small extra-dimensional room was created which she could access from this obscured location. She entered it and found herself within a familiar non-descript room, about ten feet wide, ten feet long, and six feet high. Here she was completely cut off from the world she just left behind, in her own little dimension. She pulled out a piece of parchment and laid it on the floor, then marked it with the letters AA. That done, she left the solitary room and re-entered the reality she had left behind only moments ago.

Returning to the top of the hill, the Temporal Wizard found her companions in much the same state as she had left them. "I've made a small dimensional room that I named AA just down that hill. Now we can use Dimensional Portal to travel back to this spot any time we want access to a rural ley-line."

"You have enough magical energy in those batteries to just create a Dimensional Portal when you don't have access to a ley-line or nexus?" The Mystic Knight tried to ask casually, intending to file this information away with all the other nuggets she'd gleaned in this short time.

"No, but that envelope should last for twenty years. I'll have plenty of time before then to make more talismen and store up the energy in them to allow me to cast a Dimension Portal from anywhere," the Temporal Wizard boasted proudly.

"Good to know," the Mystic Knight muttered. She tried to sheath her Katana but the magical blade instead cut the now-too fragile sheathe in half. "Oh," the Mystic Knight observed. She picked up the sheathe pieces and stared at them in consideration before letting them fall back to the ground. She improvised a sling instead and walked up next to the 'Borg. The Temporal Wizard followed.

The three of them stood together, ready, watching as the caravan slowly approached. Once the guy who recruited them was close enough to recognize the trio he waved a them to join up with the caravan...

flatline wrote:

Mack wrote:

flatline wrote:I had 1st level in mind, but I do not have these characters actually speced out.

A level 1 character had:
-- Level 11: Create Magic Scroll
-- Level 13: Talisman
-- Level 15: Enchant Weapon



I think your game table is a bit different than any one I've sat at. (I know Temporal Wizards are allowed to chose spells from any level, but I've never seen a GM give that much latitude.)

I figure in a game where folks routinely start with multi-million-credit equipment, there's no reason why a magic user shouldn't be able to start with a similarly valuable spell list. The GMs I've played with have always had a similar view. It saddens me to think that not every player has had as charmed an existence as I have.

--flatline

Alrik Vas wrote:

flatline wrote:

Mack wrote:

flatline wrote:I had 1st level in mind, but I do not have these characters actually speced out.

A level 1 character had:
-- Level 11: Create Magic Scroll
-- Level 13: Talisman
-- Level 15: Enchant Weapon



I think your game table is a bit different than any one I've sat at. (I know Temporal Wizards are allowed to chose spells from any level, but I've never seen a GM give that much latitude.)

I figure in a game where folks routinely start with multi-million-credit equipment, there's no reason why a magic user shouldn't be able to start with a similarly valuable spell list. The GMs I've played with have always had a similar view. It saddens me to think that not every player has had as charmed an existence as I have.

--flatline

I.don't entirely disagree with your point, flatline, but I'd like to point something out.

They can routinely begin with an excessively expensive gear list, you are correct. However, when that gear becomes damaged repair is an issue. When that gear runs out of juice, it's a bigger issue. If you lack the tools to repair and recharge far from the usual facilities, you really have hunks of metal and circuitry that are only taking up space.

Magic on the other hand, especially in rifts,, is a vastly more renewable resource. PPE comes back on is own, can be tapped from a ley line, person or even a summoned creature. It doesn't fail because of lack of repair. If you look at the costs of having spells cast or the expense of TW items, magic is worth a great deal more in the long run.

Mack wrote:Something else about this was bothering me, and it finally bubbled up from my subconscious this morning.

Permanently enchanting a weapon has two costs: 1000 PPE and the permanent loss of 2D4 PPE from the creator. In the above description, those two costs were somehow divorced from one another. When the Temporal Wizard created the scroll, he should also have suffered the loss of 2D4 PPE from his base. The 1000 and the 2D4 are inextricably bound together and both would be required to create the scroll.

Having said that, I don't believe what I just described as "the only way it shall ever be..." If it works for a GM to break the two apart at his/her gaming table, who am I to say otherwise?

flatline wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:I suppose that "years-long training in warping reality to conform to your will" has little material value?

Only in its potential and that potential is expressed through spells. Without spells, it's not worth anything except as part of the character's back-story.

Pre-RUE, high level spells required teamwork and planning to be able to use due to their high PPE costs (hence the singular importance of Talisman). Energy Sphere changed that a little, being able to temporarily hold 3x your base changed that a lot, but the revamping of ley lines in RUE turned it all on its head. Now two characters can do in 50 minutes what might have taken a whole team weeks or months to accomplish.

I'm still exploring the implications to the setting. That was actually the inspiration for the original post, although now that I've started this thread, I may go through my notes and try to capture some of the more interesting or nostalgic scenes from around the table. And I invite you and others to do the same.

--flatline

Nightmask wrote:

Mack wrote:Something else about this was bothering me, and it finally bubbled up from my subconscious this morning.

Permanently enchanting a weapon has two costs: 1000 PPE and the permanent loss of 2D4 PPE from the creator. In the above description, those two costs were somehow divorced from one another. When the Temporal Wizard created the scroll, he should also have suffered the loss of 2D4 PPE from his base. The 1000 and the 2D4 are inextricably bound together and both would be required to create the scroll.

Having said that, I don't believe what I just described as "the only way it shall ever be..." If it works for a GM to break the two apart at his/her gaming table, who am I to say otherwise?

Maybe it's the Nightbane Enchant Weapon spell? That spell permanently empowers a weapon without causing permanent PPE losses (which is certainly better than the Rifts version).

Killer Cyborg wrote:

flatline wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:I suppose that "years-long training in warping reality to conform to your will" has little material value?

Only in its potential and that potential is expressed through spells. Without spells, it's not worth anything except as part of the character's back-story.

Actually, most mage classes do have other abilities as well.
But yes, spells are the majority of it, which is why most mage OCCs do start with spells.
They just don't start with x million credits worth of spells on top of their x y-illion credits worth of training.

As Glistam points out, spells never run out. A first level spell is a spell that you keep for life.

As a GM, I'm careful to not neglect my spellcasters, but I generally keep them by-the-book to start, as far as spells go.
I just make sure that they have plenty of opportunity along the way to learn more spells.

flatline wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

flatline wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:I suppose that "years-long training in warping reality to conform to your will" has little material value?

Only in its potential and that potential is expressed through spells. Without spells, it's not worth anything except as part of the character's back-story.

Actually, most mage classes do have other abilities as well.
But yes, spells are the majority of it, which is why most mage OCCs do start with spells.
They just don't start with x million credits worth of spells on top of their x y-illion credits worth of training.

As Glistam points out, spells never run out. A first level spell is a spell that you keep for life.

As a GM, I'm careful to not neglect my spellcasters, but I generally keep them by-the-book to start, as far as spells go.
I just make sure that they have plenty of opportunity along the way to learn more spells.

Then you're not objecting to a temporal wizard starting with the 3 spells used since, by the book, they are valid starting spells for the temporal wizard. Correct?

--flatline

Alrik Vas wrote:not particularly, no. Then again, I tend to object to starting characters having millions of credits worth of gear unless there's some kind of precedent for it. The book allowing something isn't good enough reason for me when I take a step back and look at the big picture.

flatline wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

flatline wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:I suppose that "years-long training in warping reality to conform to your will" has little material value?

Only in its potential and that potential is expressed through spells. Without spells, it's not worth anything except as part of the character's back-story.

Actually, most mage classes do have other abilities as well.
But yes, spells are the majority of it, which is why most mage OCCs do start with spells.
They just don't start with x million credits worth of spells on top of their x y-illion credits worth of training.

As Glistam points out, spells never run out. A first level spell is a spell that you keep for life.

As a GM, I'm careful to not neglect my spellcasters, but I generally keep them by-the-book to start, as far as spells go.
I just make sure that they have plenty of opportunity along the way to learn more spells.

Then you're not objecting to a temporal wizard starting with the 3 spells used since, by the book, they are valid starting spells for the temporal wizard. Correct?

--flatline

Mack wrote:For me, it depends on the scale of the game. For a low powered game, yes I'd object. For a high powered one, not so much. It's relative.

dragonfett wrote:I do have a question regarding Dimensional Portal as it's use is more or less described in this thread, where does it say that it can be used to go to specific location based on writing? This had me a bit confused...

flatline wrote:

dragonfett wrote:I do have a question regarding Dimensional Portal as it's use is more or less described in this thread, where does it say that it can be used to go to specific location based on writing? This had me a bit confused...

The Temporal Wizard created a dimensional envelope (which he named "AA"). Since the envelope is a dimension unto itself, he can target it via Dimensional Portal which allows you to target any dimension you've previously been to. Naming the dimension and marking it is convenient since every dimensional envelope pretty much looks the same.

Since "AA" is only the size of a walk-in closet, it doesn't matter if the portal connects to the "near" or "far" end of the dimension. Once in dimension "AA", he can exit the dimensional envelope and be at the ley line since that is where the dimensional envelope was anchored.

Did that explanation help?

flatline wrote:Allowing for accurate use of Dimensional Portal has always been our primary use for Dimensional Envelope.

It's a huge oversight to not describe the accuracy of Dimensional Portal in the spell description. Most GMs I've played with will at least put you within 1000 miles of your target destination, but not all.

Axelmania wrote:I don't understand how Envelope makes Portal more accurate, what am I missing?

Axelmania wrote:I don't understand how Envelope makes Portal more accurate, what am I missing?

Axelmania wrote:I don't understand how Envelope makes Portal more accurate, what am I missing?

eliakon wrote:

Axelmania wrote:I don't understand how Envelope makes Portal more accurate, what am I missing?

The game in question appears to not have any chance of the spell failing.

Thus since in this game they will always hit the target dimension someplace they still always end up at the right location.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:

eliakon wrote:

Axelmania wrote:I don't understand how Envelope makes Portal more accurate, what am I missing?

The game in question appears to not have any chance of the spell failing.

eliakon wrote:I also note that the spell says that something always slips through....

But that its fine to say that the negative side is just 'fluff'

eliakon wrote:It doesn't say you automatically succeed either.

Which is really important since there is the whole 'oops went the wrong place factor' is pretty big, especially considering how DB7 talks about accuracy, and getting to and from worlds.....
all of which is utterly negated if there is no possible chance of failure or error in the spell used.

I also note that the spell says that something always slips through....

But that its fine to say that the negative side is just 'fluff'

*shrugs* Different strokes for different folks