Cloaking devices and ships

[kirnos]

I was going on the current lore we have available about cloaking devices on the Three Galaxies. So far, and without being able to check my books, i can remember:

-the phase ships as able to be invisible going out of phase.
-the use of the invisibility spell on UWW ships
-the experimental frigate of the TGE

Now, leaving aside the phase tech, which is restricted, and the magic, which is not really tech per se, we only have the frigate. As this is still experimental, it is interesting to think why the different powers haven't gone before to developing that kind of device.
I want to introduce an species that uses that technology on their ships, but i wonder if it will be too much a danger on the current power level of the great states. If for example the CCW gets hold of one of those ships wouldn't it be in a great position to crush the TGE? I know the Minion War takes precedence, but after that what?

How would you manage the introduction of an species with cloaking devices?

[say652]

Space Pirates raiding the trade routes. They appear out of nowhere then vanish.

[taalismn]

Tech thefts from space stations.
Or have your characters encounter sensor anomalies near planets with something that might mess with the cloak...like atmosphere out-gassing or weird energy fields...
The aliens don't necessarily have to be using their cloaking technology for military or criminal purposes...they might, for instance, be using it to sneak in close to species and organizations they're unfamiliar with, in order to eavesdrop and peep on them. Having them caught in the act might be one way to intro a new species/star nation.

Literally RUNNING INTO a cloaked ship is another way, especially if the technology interferes with their own ability to scan space around them, or your ship is moving faster than theirs can safely react(without lowering or otherwise blowing the cloak).

[kirnos]

Sorry, maybe i didn't made my point clear. What i was thinking is of introducing an species on my still not started campaign of an unexplored (or lightly explored) sector of space in the Anvil or Corkscrew galaxy, that uses cloaking devices or their ships. And thinking about it i was wondering what the implications of that could be, if it could unbalance the game or not. I want some klingon style ships (in the way of cloaked ships that decloak to attack and cloak again, not need for a similar culture, just the tactics/tech), but i don't want to unbalance the setting with a small species that therefore has an unexpected advantage over even the greater powers.

So i was wondering how people would introduce that species or manage that shift in technology. Not specifically how to put them on the first adventure, but just if it is a good idea, or it is too unbalancing. I can always rule that the cloaks are far from perfect and can be detected somehow or have any other flow, but want to keep them as cool as possible.

[The Beast]

I was going on the current lore we have available about cloaking devices on the Three Galaxies. So far, and without being able to check my books, i can remember:

-the phase ships as able to be invisible going out of phase.
-the use of the invisibility spell on UWW ships
-the experimental frigate of the TGE

Now, leaving aside the phase tech, which is restricted, and the magic, which is not really tech per se, we only have the frigate. As this is still experimental, it is interesting to think why the different powers haven't gone before to developing that kind of device...

If you have any of the AtB books the Empire of Humanity either found or made an experimental Predator-like cloaking suit in one of them (I can't remember which one atm). You could use that as a baseline for what you're looking for.

Petty tyrants thrive when they have authority backed by vague regulations.

[Mlp7029]

Gene Splicers ship from the Mindworks book has a cloak I think.

[ShadowLogan]

I was going on the current lore we have available about cloaking devices on the Three Galaxies. So far, and without being able to check my books, i can remember:

-the phase ships as able to be invisible going out of phase.
-the use of the invisibility spell on UWW ships
-the experimental frigate of the TGE

Now, leaving aside the phase tech, which is restricted, and the magic, which is not really tech per se, we only have the frigate. As this is still experimental, it is interesting to think why the different powers haven't gone before to developing that kind of device.
I want to introduce an species that uses that technology on their ships, but i wonder if it will be too much a danger on the current power level of the great states. If for example the CCW gets hold of one of those ships wouldn't it be in a great position to crush the TGE? I know the Minion War takes precedence, but after that what?

How would you manage the introduction of an species with cloaking devices?

Technically the TGE Frigate's system is a Phase System per the text (background, Fot3G). Naruni does use stealth technology (Fire Eater Fighter, Fot3G), so do the Gene Splicers (SB3), but these are more conventional stealth systems.

If you are looking for a reason why a Cloaking shield (ala Star Trek or Star Gate) isn't used in 3Gs: make it a double-blind system that prevents the user from sending or recieving any information (no active or passive sensor or communication, nor do you reflect any type of signal to be detected). Now one could use Psychic or Magic to penetrate the cloak, but you can decide if those work or not, which could impact adoption. You might also want to prevent the system from being a super fast at popping in-out, and maybe a few other draw backs (ex an after effect cool down that prevents force fields from being used).

If the System is double-blind then it really won't be attractive or alter the balance of power beyond setting up a mine field (though ships would have to connect with the mine to set it off). If the system isn't double-blind then everyone is probably going to be interested in learning how the aliens managed it (like I'm sure 3G power blocks are probably mostly/all interested in how the Intruders have working Space Fold drives and they don't).

[kirnos]

I was going on the current lore we have available about cloaking devices on the Three Galaxies. So far, and without being able to check my books, i can remember:

-the phase ships as able to be invisible going out of phase.
-the use of the invisibility spell on UWW ships
-the experimental frigate of the TGE

Now, leaving aside the phase tech, which is restricted, and the magic, which is not really tech per se, we only have the frigate. As this is still experimental, it is interesting to think why the different powers haven't gone before to developing that kind of device.
I want to introduce an species that uses that technology on their ships, but i wonder if it will be too much a danger on the current power level of the great states. If for example the CCW gets hold of one of those ships wouldn't it be in a great position to crush the TGE? I know the Minion War takes precedence, but after that what?

How would you manage the introduction of an species with cloaking devices?

Technically the TGE Frigate's system is a Phase System per the text (background, Fot3G). Naruni does use stealth technology (Fire Eater Fighter, Fot3G), so do the Gene Splicers (SB3), but these are more conventional stealth systems.

If you are looking for a reason why a Cloaking shield (ala Star Trek or Star Gate) isn't used in 3Gs: make it a double-blind system that prevents the user from sending or recieving any information (no active or passive sensor or communication, nor do you reflect any type of signal to be detected). Now one could use Psychic or Magic to penetrate the cloak, but you can decide if those work or not, which could impact adoption. You might also want to prevent the system from being a super fast at popping in-out, and maybe a few other draw backs (ex an after effect cool down that prevents force fields from being used).

If the System is double-blind then it really won't be attractive or alter the balance of power beyond setting up a mine field (though ships would have to connect with the mine to set it off). If the system isn't double-blind then everyone is probably going to be interested in learning how the aliens managed it (like I'm sure 3G power blocks are probably mostly/all interested in how the Intruders have working Space Fold drives and they don't).

Well, the thing is i don't want to limit the capabilities of the cloaking device that much. I want an star trek like cloaking. So yes, the cloak engages on a few seconds, you can not use shields or weapons when the cloak is engaged, and so need to decloak to do any interaction with other ships, except for scans.
So, too much powerful for the Three Galaxies?

[ShadowLogan]

Well, the thing is i don't want to limit the capabilities of the cloaking device that much. I want an star trek like cloaking. So yes, the cloak engages on a few seconds, you can not use shields or weapons when the cloak is engaged, and so need to decloak to do any interaction with other ships, except for scans.
So, too much powerful for the Three Galaxies?

I don't think it would be to powerful for 3Gs in the long run, and maybe not even in the short run depending on how you have it setup to interact with Magical/Psionic detection and Phase Technology based Sensors (Ghost Fighter when phased remains detectable to Phase Technology per text), or even gravitonic sensors that are all known to exist in the setting (the cloak might not protect you from gravitational interactions, even Dark Matter is visible to gravity but otherwise undetectable directly). Magical cloaking hasn't broken the setting, neither has Phase Cloaking (both options from 1st PW Bk). There would be some period of adjustment for sure, but it won't break the setting and if you are concerned about that you do have options to limit availability (ex rare or difficult to procure materials, Rifts has several examples here) and therefore the impact on the setting.

3Gs does have something similar though when you combine various stealth technologies in the setting to mask various sensors into one source though and it hasn't broken the setting. There is the Gene-Splicers ships (SB3pg69 with their Radar Cloaking and Camouflage System, granted the GS aren't prevalent) or Naruni Audit Ships (Fot3G pg65, not the Fire Earter as I said earlier, as the ship has all the features of Naruni camo armor plus holograhic imagers, the Naruni are more prevalent). Possibly a few others, though I don't think many have the same full coverage as these two examples.

You could also in theory have it as a double blind system as suggested, but given the aliens some other system (or even natural ability) to circumvent the double-blind nature of the cloak which has allowed them to mimic the Star Trek-like cloaking shield in result (ie can see you, but you can't see me) if not operation (ie a single system).

[kirnos]

I don't have my books with me right now so i could not remember the phase tech behind the ghost fighter, so yeah, maybe it would not be so unbalancing. As i want to introduce this tech and the species that uses it on an unexplored sector where i want to center the action of the campaign i suppose it would be ok.

Thanks for the input!

[glitterboy2098]

Perhaps a double blind cloak has to have passive sensors extended outside the cloaking field, like how a submarine uses a periscope. Giving something to detect that is just hard to pick up and shoot at.

Look at Yamato 2199 and the 'dimensional submarine' for how such a battle might play out. Submarine warfare in space!

I'd also give the cloaking field a chance to be detected passively if close enough (or if the cloaked ship is doing energy intensive stuff like moving/accelerating fast or maneuvering extensively) much like trying to pick up a submarine by listening for engine noise.

The main difference being the defender cannot go active like with sonar.

[drewkitty ~..~]

There are no cloaking system available in the SpaceShip Construction text in AUGG.

There is the cloaking system one of the TMNT books. The Tritops race is the name coming to mind.

I did include some 'stealth' systems in the Spaceship Construction Expansion text I wrote up for my Rifter submittion Galaxy Unlimited.

[kirnos]

Well, there is a stealth system on the main book for the runners ship, but is only for sensors, no visual cloaking.
The submarine part is not bad, I think it is quite the idea behind the phased frigate of the TGE on the Fleets of the Three Galaxies book, a kind of Hunt for Red October in space. But although interesting, i prefer an star trek approach to the cloaks.